Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: bernie west on May 01, 2015, 12:30:37 am
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Hi. I've only recently changed over to Nikon from Canon, and as such I know very little about the history of Nikon and Nikkor lenses. I'm looking to get a good value for money telephoto lens for my D810. I have 14mm to 70mm covered, and honestly I do most of my photograph in that range. But I'd like to have something in the 200 to 300mm range or thereabouts. I can't really afford to get a new modern lens, as I spent all my money on the D810 and the Nikkor 14-24mm. Ideally I'd like a prime for image quality, but if they are going to be too expensive then I'd settle for a zoom. I am looking for above average image quality, but realise I am not going to get top quality for the budget I want to spend.
So, the budget. I would like to spend no more than about $500 Australian dollars. So, that's about $3 US dollars at the current exchange rate. :'( (actually, it's probably about $400 or so). I'm totally fine with manual focus, but would like metering handled automatically by the camera (I shoot aperture priority most of the time, so manual aperture is fine if the camera can still handle the metering).
Any good lens suggestions? I've had a look at ebay and there's all sorts of stuff out there. I'm wondering if I'll have to end up with a zoom to fit within my budget. I see a lot of Nikkor 70-300mm ED lenses out there for pretty cheap, but I assume that the image quality on them is not the greatest? I guess if I could stop down to f8 or thereabouts and get pretty good sharpness across the frame, that might be ok. Any thoughts on this or other lenses (including 3rd party too)?
Cheers,
Bernie.
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Any thoughts on this lens? Listed as in good condition optically, but a few scuffs on the body.
Nikon Nikkor 180mm f/2.8 ED Ai-S Lens - $380
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If you could find an 80-200 f/2.8 I think you'd be pleased. It is a great lens but doesn't have the silent wave auto focus motor. It is the older mechanical screw. But the image quality is very good. When I bought the AFS VR version I kept my 80-200. I'm using it and am pleased with it. I plan to buy the 28-300 lens later this year mostly for video use. I've been told it is a very good lens.
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I would argue to look for a used 28-300MM ED VR AF-S Nikkor Zoom lens...surprisingly good lens (variable F-stop 3.5-5.6). Not great at 300mm but not terrible. Decent at 28mm.
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If we are going to look at a 28-300, it behooves us to also then take a look at the 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 ED IF AF-S VR (careful, there is a very cheap non-VR version that is not nearly as good). Decent sharpness up to 200mm. And decently light.
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Yeah, there's a few of that zoom floating around for sale. Could be an option. I would prefer a prime, though. And although that one I listed above is maybe a little short, I do have plenty of pixels to crop with. The bigger aperture is a bonus as well.
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Hi. I've only recently changed over to Nikon from Canon, and as such I know very little about the history of Nikon and Nikkor lenses. I'm looking to get a good value for money telephoto lens for my D810. I have 14mm to 70mm covered, and honestly I do most of my photograph in that range. But I'd like to have something in the 200 to 300mm range or thereabouts. I can't really afford to get a new modern lens, as I spent all my money on the D810 and the Nikkor 14-24mm. Ideally I'd like a prime for image quality, but if they are going to be too expensive then I'd settle for a zoom. I am looking for above average image quality, but realise I am not going to get top quality for the budget I want to spend.
So, the budget. I would like to spend no more than about $500 Australian dollars. So, that's about $3 US dollars at the current exchange rate. :'( (actually, it's probably about $400 or so). I'm totally fine with manual focus, but would like metering handled automatically by the camera (I shoot aperture priority most of the time, so manual aperture is fine if the camera can still handle the metering).
Any good lens suggestions? I've had a look at ebay and there's all sorts of stuff out there. I'm wondering if I'll have to end up with a zoom to fit within my budget. I see a lot of Nikkor 70-300mm ED lenses out there for pretty cheap, but I assume that the image quality on them is not the greatest? I guess if I could stop down to f8 or thereabouts and get pretty good sharpness across the frame, that might be ok. Any thoughts on this or other lenses (including 3rd party too)?
Cheers,
Bernie.
At $400 mark, I'd probably say the VR version of the 70-300mm is your best bet as long as you don't need super fast at the long end (the super cheap non VR is super mediocre). The 180mm f/2.8 is a fixed focal length option. But if you can swing it the 3rd gen AF-D 80-200mm f/2.8(w/ tripod mount) is da bomb. I used one for 17 years. Sold it for almost what I paid for it. They actually still make it and it is what I recommend to folks that can't afford the 70-200mm f/2.8 VRII.
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I would wait a bit and save for a second hand 70-200 f4 VR.
A few images shot with one today on a D750 (first one is a 150 mp hand held pano).
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8753/17329488501_6145b86e44_o.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7747/17142097968_ffbf90d940_o.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7787/17329486411_1864715636_o.jpg)
Cheers,
Bernard
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Any thoughts on this one on ebay: Exc++ Nikon Nikkor 300mm f 4.5 f/4.5 Ai Converted Lens $200. Is conversion a normal procedure or is it likely to have buggered up the lens?
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At $400 mark, I'd probably say the VR version of the 70-300mm is your best bet as long as you don't need super fast at the long end (the super cheap non VR is super mediocre). The 180mm f/2.8 is a fixed focal length option. But if you can swing it the 3rd gen AF-D 80-200mm f/2.8(w/ tripod mount) is da bomb. I used one for 17 years. Sold it for almost what I paid for it. They actually still make it and it is what I recommend to folks that can't afford the 70-200mm f/2.8 VRII.
Just to be perfectly clear, this is the lens I was recommending above. There are older models that don't have a tripod collar and are push/pull zoom. The AF-D 80-200 f/2.8 with tripod collar is the one I have and was referring to. By the way, Nikon still manufactures this lens even though it covers virtually the same range as the more expensive various 70-200 models.
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With good craft, all these are viable options. Also don't discount looking at the 300mm f/4 ED AF, the first AF version of the 300mm not 2.8. It may be in your price range barely.
I travel a lot with my D800 bodies and both size and weight are a concern. I'm happy with my 70-300 VR for my long lens. It's a little slow on the long end but if you've got to pack this stuff around all day, that's a minor concern. If you need speed and light weight, the 180 2.8 AF is another idea. Using the DX crop, it becomes a 270mm equivalent medium telephoto at a fraction of cost, size and weight and still gives you nice 15mp files.
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Just to be perfectly clear, this is the lens I was recommending above. There are older models that don't have a tripod collar and are push/pull zoom. The AF-D 80-200 f/2.8 with tripod collar is the one I have and was referring to. By the way, Nikon still manufactures this lens even though it covers virtually the same range as the more expensive various 70-200 models.
They still make it because it is an awesome lens. Half the price of the current 70-200mm f/2.8 VRII, smaller package, but built like a tank! Oh and the lens hood is full round instead of the flower nonsense. Other than slightly faster focusing and better focus tracking and the ability to TC, the older one is the way to go.
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Any thoughts on this one on ebay: Exc++ Nikon Nikkor 300mm f 4.5 f/4.5 Ai Converted Lens $200. Is conversion a normal procedure or is it likely to have buggered up the lens?
"Conversion" means its actually an older, pre-Ai, lens. Nikkor lenses originally had a pair of prongs protruding from the aperture ring that engaged an indexing pin protruding below the metering prism to couple the lens to the camera meter. You had to align and manually engage the pin into the fork when switching lenses. (I still have the habit of racking the aperture ring from fully open to minimum and back again when mounting a lens.) With the F2, they introduced an indexing 'blob' on the back of the mount that coupled internally, hence 'Ai' for 'Auto Indexing'. For a number of years Nikon offered a conversion service that replaced the original aperture ring with the Ai version. If the conversion was done by Nikon's factory service its perfectly fine. But unfortunately there's no way to know for sure if THAT lens was converted by Nikon or kludged by a home workshop wannabe. FYI, with the F3 I believe it was they changed the calibration of the lever that stops down the diaphragm to make it proportional, giving more accurate shot to shot consistency with the earliest autoexposure system. Those lenses were designate 'AiS' I have a couple of Nikon-converted Ai lenses and couple of AiS lenses. All worked just fine on my D700 but the exposures were more accurate with the AiS. Because there were also some changes in the lens coating with the AiS they also seem a bit crisper. Haven't had a chance to try them on my new D810 but I'd expect similar results. So if I were shopping for an older Nikkor prime, I would make sure to go with the AiS versions and pass on both Ai and Ai-converted polder copies. However if the only options boiled down to a choice of either Ai or Ai-converted, then it becomes all 6s and 9s.
Check out KEH Camera
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You can find the AF version of the 180 2.8 in the $400-$500 range. That's a really good deal for a prime lens of that quality. The 80-200 2.8 is a true bargain if you can live without VR. The 70-200 f/4 someone mentioned may be my favorite of Nikon's telephoto lenses. It has amazing IQ and VR, and is much lighter than the 2.8 versions. But it's fairly new and still about $1000 US used. I do love it though.
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Any thoughts on this one on ebay: Exc++ Nikon Nikkor 300mm f 4.5 f/4.5 Ai Converted Lens $200. Is conversion a normal procedure or is it likely to have buggered up the lens?
An AI conversion means it's quite an old lens and unless it's the very scarce pre-IF ED version its performance is nothing to get excited about. I'd look for something more recent.
Many Nikkor lenses converted to AI with the replacement aperture ring look nearly identical to a factory AI lens; it will have 2 sets of aperture scales and the 'prong' will have holes in it. These lenses are unlikely to have been buggered up by the conversion.
... Because there were also some changes in the lens coating with the AiS they also seem a bit crisper.
Changes in lens coatings were not necessarily coincident with the changes to AI or AI-S. There was a very significant improvement in coatings well before the change to AI. Agree about KEH, check their website.
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Wouldn't you expect a prime 300mm to give better image quality than a 70-300mm vr (assuming I use it on a tripod/monopod)?
I've found a bazillion Nikon zoom lenses in my price range on Gumtree.com.au. I've got way too many to choose from now. :( I'll check later today which ones are still available and I might post back here with some possible candidates for some advice. There is a newish Tamron 70-300 VC IL Di ABC XYZ CIA 4.5-5.6 for sale for $50 that the guy accidentally busted by forcing the zoom ring while it was in macro mode. He says it works fully, just that it's now a push-pull instead of a zoom ring.. :D I think I'll buy that one as well as a better lens, as for $50 it's probably worth it. Give I only want it for the telephoto end, I won't be using the zoom much anyway.
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Wouldn't you expect a prime 300mm to give better image quality than a 70-300mm vr (assuming I use it on a tripod/monopod)?
If they're similar age, sure. The earliest 300mm f/4.5 Nikkor was called the Nikkor P (5 elements) which was quite poor. Lateral chromatic aberration was clearly visible. Got some of my best photos with it though, what did I know? IIRC the construction of this lens precluded a factory AI conversion so any of these that are converted were done my machining the original aperture ring; this can be done well or can be done poorly. The second version of the 300mm f/4.5 was the Nikkor H (6 elements) and was constructed such that the AI conversion could be done by replacing the aperture ring as long as supplies lasted. This is a better lens (I used one for ~10 years) but would be considered only adequate at best today. The coatings were improved with the Nikkor H•C version, the first ED version came next, then the AI conversion became available.
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There is a Nikkor 300 F4 ED floating about out there, but it's too expensive unfortunately.
What about this one:
Nikon AF Nikkor 80-200mm 2.8 ED
$395.00 Negotiable
Apparently a push-pull zoom.
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Do you need Auto-focus?
I found a Nikkor 600mm f/4 AI-S lens on eBay for just a shade over £200 (say $300) and, optically, it is superb. The modern AF version would cost over £6000.
I guess it depends why you want one. Mine is used for wildlife - when AF would be of little advantage. But for sports, AF might be more useful.
Horses for courses (or, in my case, budgets!)
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I found a Nikkor 600mm f/4 AI-S lens on eBay for just a shade over £200 (say $300) and, optically, it is superb. The modern AF version would cost over £6000.
You sure? They go for around £1,500
For a 300mm reach prime with AF @f4 this is a sharp lens and hand-holdable.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/3004af.htm
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Three Nikkor lens histories:
http://www.nikkor.com/history/
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/
http://www.nikkor.com/story/
Also see the
slightly outdated but very useful none the less: http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2.html
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You sure? They go for around £1,500
Yep.
It came in the original Nikon rigid travel case and was complete with a dedicated TC-301 2X converter.
You are right that they do sometimes sell for £1200-£1500 but, as always with eBay, patience is the key to finding what you want at the right price.
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Yep.
It came in the original Nikon rigid travel case and was complete with a dedicated TC-301 2X converter.
You are right that they do sometimes sell for £1200-£1500 but, as always with eBay, patience is the key to finding what you want at the right price.
Well, I missed that one, but really stopped serious looking when I picked up a Tamron 150-600mm that has not disappointed, except it cost me a monopod ;)
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slightly outdated but very useful none the less: http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2.html
I used to refer to that site a lot. It is still very useful although it seems to be frozen in time. I wonder what ever happened to that guy. He had a tick bite that seemed to cause him some serious health problems. I don't think he's updated or responded to queries through the site for several years.
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If we are going to look at a 28-300, it behooves us to also then take a look at the 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 ED IF AF-S VR (careful, there is a very cheap non-VR version that is not nearly as good). Decent sharpness up to 200mm. And decently light.
I agree that this is a unique lens. It is very good for the extended range and reasonably compact. If you can live with the aperture limitations it is a great value. I have the 18-200mm DX VRII lens and it also performs well above expectations.
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There's a few of the 18-200's floating around. Well within my price range too.
I must say I'm still leaning towards the 80-200 f2.8 push pull. Apparently a pro lens in it's time. I would like to be able to use this lens for surf photography and also my kids sport, so the fast aperture is a great bonus. I guess I'd settle for f4, but 5.6 just seems too slow for using in crop mode (so, for example, the 70-300 4-5.6 in DX mode would be 450mm; panning around at that zoom would require very fast shutter speeds).
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There's a few of the 18-200's floating around. Well within my price range too.
I must say I'm still leaning towards the 80-200 f2.8 push pull. Apparently a pro lens in it's time. I would like to be able to use this lens for surf photography and also my kids sport, so the fast aperture is a great bonus. I guess I'd settle for f4, but 5.6 just seems too slow for using in crop mode (so, for example, the 70-300 4-5.6 in DX mode would be 450mm; panning around at that zoom would require very fast shutter speeds).
The 18-200mm are DX lenses. They will work on your D810 in DX crop mode, but not the best situation, the 28-300mm would be a better option on Full Frame if you are inclined to that type of lens.
I don't know anything about the earlier 80-200mm f/2.8, but know I could never live without the rotating tripod mount that was introduced on the 3rd generation rotating zoom.
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I used to own the 70-300 VR and produced fine images. I replaced it with the 70-200 f4 which is just wonderful, but expensive. I also have a 200 f4 macro lens that I have even used for landscapes. My good friend who I travel with prefers his 18-200 to the newer 18-300.
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I used to refer to that site a lot. It is still very useful although it seems to be frozen in time. I wonder what ever happened to that guy. He had a tick bite that seemed to cause him some serious health problems. I don't think he's updated or responded to queries through the site for several years.
Bjorn Rorslet is exclusively on the Fotozones site, still dispensing information to the Nikon loyal.
To the OP: Many of us cut our teeth on the push-pull zooms and they were quite astonishing in their day and time, but I'd not give them a second glance today. I'd look for a good copy of the 80-200 Ai/s or AF-D if I were in your shoes. The Ai glass works quite well with modern cameras.
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I highly recommend the Tamron 70-300 VC (Vibration Control) lens. It is amazingly sharp, and very inexpensive. Here is a sample hand held at 300mm f16. Second picture is 100% crop.
Good Luck
Dave in NJ
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I ended up agreeing to buy the Nikkor 80-200 f2.8 for $370. I decided to chose speed over more modern optics. f5.6 was going to be too slow for my needs, I think. If it's not as sharp as a modern zoom, I'm ok with that, as a slightly less sharp image is going to be better than no image due to a slow lens. I'll post back when it arrives and I've had a chance to test it out.
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Stopping down just a bit from wide open should improve things a lot. Think you will very much want a hood for this.