Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: keithcooper on April 20, 2015, 05:28:42 am
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After my recent P600 review, Epson UK called me asked if I'd like to review a new printer...
It's a pre-release printer, so the case is a bit rougher finish than you might like, but I'm assured that it's pretty much as will ship.
Anyway, I've written up a detailed review, that I hope is of interest
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/printer/epson-sc_p800_review.html
The printer is still here, so do let me know if you've any questions (and no, I will not take it apart!)
This is a 10 foot long print on 10" paper (took about 20 mins to print at 1440)
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Keith,
Interesting read and as usual quite thorough.
Remark on the 51-step results, i get similar lineair results from both my 4900 and 9900. So indeed quite lineair. Actually with some profile optimisation one can get an almost perfect lineair L curve without the crunching in the deepest blacks.
As to this mouse over image about printer resolution, my guess is that with mouse over i get the 2880dpi .
Did you also try the toggle finedetails = on when resolution set to 2880dpi?
In my experience that toggle is significant in its results. At least on the 4900 and 9900.
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Thanks - you're right about the 2880/1440 image ;-)
I wanted people to actually look at the image rather than see what supported any caption ;-)
I've just had a 16" roll of Epson PGPP turn up, so I'll try a few more detail comparisons.
As an aside, the press release (and article) wasn't due to go out till Wednesday, but after Epson US jumped the gun last week with the P800 announcement, it was moved to today. Fortunately, I'd written up most of the review yesterday...
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After my recent P600 review, Epson UK called me asked if I'd like to review a new printer...
It's a pre-release printer, so the case is a bit rougher finish than you might like, but I'm assured that it's pretty much as will ship.
Anyway, I've written up a detailed review, that I hope is of interest
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/printer/epson-sc_p800_review.html
The printer is still here, so do let me know if you've any questions (and no, I will not take it apart!)
This is a 10 foot long print on 10" paper (took about 20 mins to print at 1440)
Considering I just replaced the 8 year old R2400 with the 3880, I'm not going to jump on this any time soon. Glad they upped the ink tank size from the P600 and removed the 37" and provided for roll paper support. A little disappointing that droplet size stayed at 3.5ml and we still have to swap PK and MK inks to the same head location causing ink waste. Of course, to change this would mean significant changes to head configuration and there for the control software and a wider printer.
This is probably going to be a great printer for us enthusiasts. Considering I saved over $500 (w/ $300 rebate) over the cost of the P800, I'm not all that disappointed that it appeared so soon after purchasing the 3880 which is considered one of Epson's most reliable printers ever.
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Hi Keith,
The P600 has an "auto clean" feature which according to Epson technical support cannot be turned off by the user. I'm finding that due to this "feature" a manual nozzle check isn't always just a nozzle check. In some cases it leads to a "preclean" cycle before printing the nozzle check pattern (yes, before not after the nozzle check >:(). Does the P800 share that same feature, is it the "default" setting, and can the user over ride it with a more manual approach to nozzle checks and cleaning cycles?
thanks,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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Hi Keith,
The P600 has an "auto clean" feature which according to Epson technical support cannot be turned off by the user. I'm finding that due to this "feature" a manual nozzle check isn't always just a nozzle check. In some cases it leads to a "preclean" cycle before printing the nozzle check pattern (yes, before not after the nozzle check >:(). Does the P800 share that same feature, is it the "default" setting, and can the user over ride it with a more manual approach to nozzle checks and cleaning cycles?
thanks,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
I've not seen any setting relating to this. I've only done a few nozzle checks and they all worked exactly as I'd normally expect. I've still got the machine for a while, so will look out for it.
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Hi,
I guess clogging is not something that you would see in such a review, as the machine is in pretty heavy use.
It would be interesting to have the printer sit there (turned off) without printing for 1-2 weeks and see if it starts to clog. Extra points if you have a 4900 next to the R800 and do the same in the same environmental conditions (essentially humidity)...
Otherwise, I thought it was a very interesting review. My prehistoric R1800 is due for replacement, and the R800 looks pretty sweet.
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Hi,
I guess clogging is not something that you would see in such a review, as the machine is in pretty heavy use.
It would be interesting to have the printer sit there (turned off) without printing for 1-2 weeks and see if it starts to clog. Extra points if you have a 4900 next to the R800 and do the same in the same environmental conditions (essentially humidity)...
Otherwise, I thought it was a very interesting review. My prehistoric R1800 is due for replacement, and the R800 looks pretty sweet.
If you can sort it with the 'house authorities' for me to keep that many printers in the kitchen (unused) for a few weeks. ;-)
Also I'm in the UK, so low humidity is not something I have much experience of.
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Hi,
I guess clogging is not something that you would see in such a review, as the machine is in pretty heavy use.
It would be interesting to have the printer sit there (turned off) without printing for 1-2 weeks and see if it starts to clog. Extra points if you have a 4900 next to the R800 and do the same in the same environmental conditions (essentially humidity)...
Otherwise, I thought it was a very interesting review. My prehistoric R1800 is due for replacement, and the R800 looks pretty sweet.
I've let my P600 stand still for 3 weeks in a very dry room. When I started printing again I had to do one cleaning. After that everything was running fine again.
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Keith,
The Pinnacle Lustre 300 gsm may look like Epson PLPP 260 gsm but its OBA content is much higher if I consider your b -7.81 in the QTR -out file. Epson PLPP hits b -3 at most.
Not so long ago there was a discussion on split toning. The favorite color toning was warm highlights to cool shadows. I wrote it wouldn't be easy to achieve that. Your B&W measurements on more papers here show that. Either the Dmax has to suffer from cooling the shadows or the highlights do not blend well to the paper white. On OBA and non-OBA papers.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Hi Keith,
The P600 has an "auto clean" feature which according to Epson technical support cannot be turned off by the user. I'm finding that due to this "feature" a manual nozzle check isn't always just a nozzle check. In some cases it leads to a "preclean" cycle before printing the nozzle check pattern (yes, before not after the nozzle check >:(). Does the P800 share that same feature, is it the "default" setting, and can the user over ride it with a more manual approach to nozzle checks and cleaning cycles?
thanks,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
Hi
I've noticed that on my (now old) 3800 to, even when printing a few A2's I sometimes had it the following day.
On my 3800 I see a difference of about 25-30% between ink bought and ink accounted for inside the printerlogs. I do at least an A4 a week (except a few times on holiday), mostly more.
Alain
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A question as you have (had) some canon ipf printers in the house to:
I'm interested in the difference between a ipf6400 and the new SC-P800. Handling, roll handling especially, print quality,...
I know the price difference :-( and that the ipf6400 can print 24" :-) and I've also read you're reviews and comment on having a large format printer.
I happen to have a minimum volume of about 1 10" by 16" almost every week and now almost always pre cut it from a roll (baryta paper).
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Keith,
The Pinnacle Lustre 300 gsm may look like Epson PLPP 260 gsm but its OBA content is much higher if I consider your b -7.81 in the QTR -out file. Epson PLPP hits b -3 at most.
Not so long ago there was a discussion on split toning. The favorite color toning was warm highlights to cool shadows. I wrote it wouldn't be easy to achieve that. Your B&W measurements on more papers here show that. Either the Dmax has to suffer from cooling the shadows or the highlights do not blend well to the paper white. On OBA and non-OBA papers.
Thanks for the detail there Ernst. It is indeed quite bright, very much a paper I use for 'decorative' prints for commercial use ;-)
I've a neutral/warm baryta paper that I do like for B&W, but only 44" roll in stock, so not tested with the P800.
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A remark about the skewing of larger papers. I had this with my 3800 until I noticed a small plastic turnable piece on the right of the rear feeder, it's on the first part that can be pulled out and about 3cm long.
I adjusted it and made it about a mm wider (closer to the print) and almost all my prints are now straight.
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A question as you have (had) some canon ipf printers in the house to:
I'm interested in the difference between a ipf6400 and the new SC-P800. Handling, roll handling especially, print quality,...
I know the price difference :-( and that the ipf6400 can print 24" :-) and I've also read you're reviews and comment on having a large format printer.
I happen to have a minimum volume of about 1 10" by 16" almost every week and now almost always pre cut it from a roll (baryta paper).
Paper handling - well the 6400 has powered roll feed, but no straight through paper path or feed tray
Print quality - the extra R/G/B inks of the Canon do make a difference on some papers, if you've got some intense colours in your images. Not a lot, but I can see it on some of my test images. Probably falls into most people wouldn't notice category though ;-)
Uncorrected B&W neutrality (BW print mode) seems better on the Epson, but I can adjust for that easily in the Canon driver (I also love using the Canon PS print plugin)
I've the space, so my big iPF8300 isn't problem. Things could get 'interesting' when the Epson 9900 gets updated and my 2010 iPF8300 next has a head failing ;-)
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A remark about the skewing of larger papers. I had this with my 3800 until I noticed a small plastic turnable piece on the right of the rear feeder, it's on the first part that can be pulled out and about 3cm long.
I adjusted it and made it about a mm wider (closer to the print) and almost all my prints are now straight.
The skewing was likely my fault for just putting big heavy lustre papers into the sheet feed - no issue with PGPP and PLPP
I've just checked the printer - I'd not noticed that little part... thanks
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Just tested a longer print on 16" Epson PGPP.
124" at 720ppi fell over
124" at 360ppi printed in under half an hour
I used a custom media size 3.2 metres long
CS6 print dialog (at the size that failed)
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Just tested a longer print on 16" Epson PGPP.
124" at 720ppi fell over
124" at 360ppi printed in under half an hour
I used a custom media size 3.2 metres long
CS6 print dialog (at the size that failed)
Hi Keith
How do you cut the paper? It seems tricky to me, although that I can image to make a cut guider from wood and metal to makes thinks easier.
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Hi Keith
How do you cut the paper? It seems tricky to me, although that I can image to make a cut guider from wood and metal to makes thinks easier.
Good quality scissors and a steady hand... ;-)
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I've just checked the printer - I'd not noticed that little part... thanks
Maybe you can place a picture of it in you're review, that small plastic part is very useful, but not well known ;-)
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Maybe you can place a picture of it in you're review, that small plastic part is very useful, but not well known ;-)
Thanks - I've just added a roll-over image of it working.
All the comments and questions are much appreciated - I may have written quite a few printer reviews, but it's still easy to miss things, and if one person takes the trouble to ask, then a dozen more may have just wondered...
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Nice review, thanks!
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Thanks - I've just added a roll-over image of it working.
All the comments and questions are much appreciated - I may have written quite a few printer reviews, but it's still easy to miss things, and if one person takes the trouble to ask, then a dozen more may have just wondered...
Wow, that little lever is there on the 3800 too and I never even knew about it! Thanks for posting this photo in your review. Thanks Keith and Alain!
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A remark about the skewing of larger papers. I had this with my 3800 until I noticed a small plastic turnable piece on the right of the rear feeder, it's on the first part that can be pulled out and about 3cm long.
I adjusted it and made it about a mm wider (closer to the print) and almost all my prints are now straight.
Hmm...Sounds like going backwards. I just upgraded to the 3880 and the rear tray has a hard edge that runs all the way down the right edge of the rear tray. Wondering if the connection for the roll feeder makes that impossible on the new P800.
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They're talking about the normal sheet feeder (the one you extend up from the top of the printer), not the rear manual feed, which is a different thing. The little flip-up lever works in conjunction with the sheet feeder's guides.
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Re the little plastic on rear feeder. I am not at home , I assume the when you say right side you are facing the printer from the front????? T
Thank you. Would love the roller... But bought a new 3880 early last year? Sold the 3800 to a friend who loves it....
Cheers elo
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Yes, it is on the right side of the fold-out sheet feeder tray on both the P800 and 3880 (and likely even on the 3800 too). Here's Keith's photo of it.
(http://i.imgur.com/oajRDXi.jpg)
Keith, how's the quality of the output tray (the pull-out tray on the front to hold finished printed sheets)? It was the flimsiest part on the 3880, is it any more robust/substantial on the P800?
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Yes, it is on the right side of the fold-out sheet feeder tray on both the P800 and 3880 (and likely even on the 3800 too). Here's Keith's photo of it.
(http://i.imgur.com/oajRDXi.jpg)
Keith, how's the quality of the output tray (the pull-out tray on the front to hold finished printed sheets)? It was the flimsiest part on the 3880, is it any more robust/substantial on the P800?
It's the same on the 3800. I had to adapt the size a little. I used a plastic C -glide for curtains (hope it's understandable in English) that I can put over it (and make it also a few cm longer so that paper can't get over the side). That way I have something that's a little thicker and a little higher. Now my paper has no skew or maybe 1 mm on 80cm.
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Thanks for the review. I have had the 3880 for several years and never had a clog. I never turn it off. Electricity is cheaper than ink.
It's good to see a roll feeder. That would be a great advantage as I now cut 17" rolls for the 3880. It's a shame about no cutter though. You would need to pull the paper out a fair way to cut it without damaging the print and then feed it back. I expect the 4900 will continue.
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Keith
In your review you used 10" roll paper. According to the Roll feed specs the minimum roll width is 13". Is this false?
Barry
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I note that the P800 has the same number and colour of ink as the 3880, albeit a different type of ink. How does the gamut of this compare to the 4900 with a ten ink set including the extra colours?
I am quite happy with the 3880 at the moment and have some spare inks. At some stage (or if it dies) I would like to get a printer where I don't have to cut rolls to make long prints and want a wider gamut. How do you think this compares to the 4900 in print quality, usability and cost?
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I note that the P800 has the same number and colour of ink as the 3880, albeit a different type of ink.
Further, when I go to the Epson Pro site where one usually downloads ICC Profiles, go to P800 and ask see the profiles for this printer, I'm taken to a page of papers for the 3880. Profiles not done? Or they expect P800 users to use the 3880 profiles?
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I note that the P800 has the same number and colour of ink as the 3880, albeit a different type of ink. How does the gamut of this compare to the 4900 with a ten ink set including the extra colours?
I haven't tested the P800, but I have built some profiles for the SC P600 when I tested that printer. The total gamut volume is about the same because of the darker black, but Epson 4900 has a small advantage in the green and orange areas. Otherwise they are very similar when you use ColorThink to compare the gamuts.