Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Chris Barrett on April 08, 2015, 09:53:10 am
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I can't imagine that anyone will be engineering this, but... I'd love to be able to use Leica S2 lenses on a Tilt/Shift adapter like the Mirex on my A7r... or even mount them on the Arca M2.
Hmm...
CB
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Hi Chris,
Thinking crazy maybe have somebody machine a S2 extension tube to an Arca lens board.
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Hi Chris,
Thinking crazy maybe have somebody machine a S2 extension tube to an Arca lens board.
It would need electrical contacts to operate the diaphragm and to focus.
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Probably not that difficult to have done. Either Able or Century can probably make a dumb adapter and there are a bunch of EF smart attachments to adjust the aperture, so whoever writes that code could probably do it for a leica, though most of that would be a one or two off as there probably isn't a big market for it.
I guess it depends on the look your after. I shoot Leica and Contax/Zeiss glass next to each other on my S2 and the difference is the Zeiss has more contrast and appears sharper (though in reality it's about equal), the Leica glass has a smoother contrast roll off.
As you probably know DP's are now buying up medium format glass to build their kits for the upcoming 65mm cinema cameras, I hear some are having parts of the lens barrel changed.
IMO
BC
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Hi Chris, you're certainly not alone in that line of thought.
A few weeks ago I wrote on another forum why I think Leica could/should make adapters for 35mm FF systems, such as Canon, Nikon and Sony:
Pros:
- The MTF’s of the S lenses are hard to beat for any of their counterpart FF lenses
- tilt/shift, movements would be possible with specialised adapters, even more so for APS-C cameras that also use Canon, Nikon and Sony mounts
- Possibility to later (or from the moment of purchase) use the S lenses on a larger sensor camera such as the Leica S system, future MF mirror-less, and also on future larger sensor video and digital cinema cameras. The über 65mm sensor of the new Arri requires a 59mm image circle, but the S lenses have most video sensors covered with a 54mm image circle.
- Leica can make (extra) money on adapters and lenses
- making the option to use S lenses on other cameras available to S lens owners would be very economical for photographers who don't want to buy a second S as back up camera (who does/can?) and useful for photographers who want to use a high ISO camera next to their high res S camera. This would save them having to buy Canon, Nikon or Sony lenses and/or schlepping around two lens systems. The money saved on other system lenses can be used to invest in future proof "multi-mount" S lenses
- Leica can sell lenses to the many buyers of high res, small pixel pitch FF cameras who are (with reason) afraid native lenses are not up to the task of providing enough resolving power for their 37,5 - 50 MP (and in the future even higher MP) FF sensors.
- All this would mean that an investment in S lenses is a future-proof and thus safe investment, which would lead to more sales. Leica can make the S system better known, gain prestige, and hopefully get more market penetration of the complete S system. Some photographers who bought the S lenses for their FF system may later on want to use their lenses to their full potential on a real Leica S camera with a 56% bigger sensor.
Cons:
- potentially, there might be more moiré on lower res sensor cameras without OLP filter
- Costs, S lenses are more expensive than their FF counterparts, except perhaps for the Zeiss Otus lenses
- Not all, but quite a lot of lenses available for FF are smaller and lighter
- FF systems generally have faster lenses available
- potential customers might lose an important incentive to buy an S camera if Leica S lens adapters to Canon, Nikon and Sony cameras are available
- it remains to be seen if a FF camera with an adapter can make use of the central shutter in Leica S CS lenses (would be great if they could make that work, and this would be an important reason to buy CS lenses for FF camera users)
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Having the possibility to use S lenses on FF bodies would be nice, but:
- unless Leica invests very high amounts in reverse engineering Canon/Nikon AF, these S lenses would end up serving as manual lenses,
- their focal lengths are a bit unusual in 35mm terms,
- they offer limited shallow DoF options,
- they are extremely expensive compared to the very best 35mm options (average almost twice as expensive as the Otus) and are probably inferior to them per pixel (at least to the Otus, 200mm f2.0 and longer super tele offering blistering fast AF and stabilization), since the S lenses have to cover a larger image circle (measure would tell). Judging from the M mount, recent Zeiss offerings such as the 35mm f1.4 ZM seem at least not inferior to their Leica equivalent at a significantly lower price point.
I don't think Leica will take the risk to invest considering this, the ROI would be low and the risk to the image of the S system as offering the best lenses would be high.
Now it's very possible some third party may decide to produce such an adapter, but... who would buy one? S lens existing owners will prefer to use them on their S body and who is going to spend 7,000 US$ to fit a 70mm f2.5 MF lens designed for AF applications on a DSLR?
Cheers,
Bernard
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who would buy one?
Probably not me, because I'd rather use it on an S, but some people love Leica glass. Have you seen the price of Leica PL mount cinema Lenses. The lens caps costs more most lenses and the last three large projects I've seen produced in Hollywood all had Leica glass.
(http://cptrental.com/NEW/wp-content/themes/glance/inc/timthumb.php?src=http://cptrental.com/NEW/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Leica-Summilux-C-cinema-lenses.jpeg&h=290&w=570)
$101,000 for 6 primes and btw believe it or not some dp's actually buy the Leicas rather than rent.
IMO
BC
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Probably not me, because I'd rather use it on an S, but some people love Leica glass. Have you seen the price of Leica PL mount cinema Lenses. The lens caps costs more most lenses and the last three large projects I've seen produced in Hollywood all had Leica glass.
(http://cptrental.com/NEW/wp-content/themes/glance/inc/timthumb.php?src=http://cptrental.com/NEW/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Leica-Summilux-C-cinema-lenses.jpeg&h=290&w=570)
$101,000 for 6 primes and btw believe it or not some dp's actually buy the Leicas rather than rent.
IMO
BC
Never used a Leica, could not tell you the difference between it and any other DSLR, but those lenses look pretty damn sweet!
Is that manual aperture control I see? That's one thing I miss from film DSLRs.
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BTW, those are the Sumicrons. I put my name down for a set when they were announced but then sanity sunk in. The Summiluxes come as a set of 8 and are $250k. All the high end fast (T1.4) glass from Leica, Zeiss and Cooke average $25k a lens.
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Probably not me, because I'd rather use it on an S, but some people love Leica glass. Have you seen the price of Leica PL mount cinema Lenses. The lens caps costs more most lenses and the last three large projects I've seen produced in Hollywood all had Leica glass.
I think we agree here. The S glass is more than superb, but it makes most sense mounted to an S camera.
I do love Leica glass too btw, I am the happy owner of 2 of the best Leica R lenses ever designed, their 180mm f2.8 APO and the 280mm f4 APO and they are truly excellent (not anymore the best lenses I own though).
I am well aware that cinema glass is in a totally different league from a price standpoint (my wife used to sell some of those many years ago), but this results from the totally different cost structures of motion pictures compared to still photography, right? Many publications struggle to survive while some guys in Hollywood make hundreds of millions.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Here we go again ...
Having the possibility to use S lenses on FF bodies would be nice, but:
- unless Leica invests very high amounts in reverse engineering Canon/Nikon AF, these S lenses would end up serving as manual lenses,
Of course we're talking about completely reverse engineered adapters, I thought I made that clear. As for 'investing very high amounts', obviously, that is a non-issue. They already did this for Hasseblad H and Contax 645, which are small markets, compared to CaNikon and Sony.
- their focal lengths are a bit unusual in 35mm terms,
Which FL's are you talking about? There's 24, 30, 35, 45, 70, 100, 120 and 180. Plus the 30-90 zoom and the 120mm tilt/shift. So who is going to see the difference in AOV between a photo taken on 30mm instead of 28mm after cropping/straightening horizon, etc? Or between a 70mm and a 75mm? To each their own, of course.
- they offer limited shallow DoF options,
I agree, but these days, with high res sensors, who wants to do critical shooting on f1,4 or f2,0. (Especially troublesome with your manual focus Otus through the relatively small and dark CaNikon viewfinders)
- they are extremely expensive compared to the very best 35mm options (average almost twice as expensive as the Otus) and are probably inferior to them per pixel (at least to the Otus, 200mm f2.0 and longer super tele offering blistering fast AF and stabilization), since the S lenses have to cover a larger image circle (measure would tell). Judging from the M mount, recent Zeiss offerings such as the 35mm f1.4 ZM seem at least not inferior to their Leica equivalent at a significantly lower price point.
The S lenses are not twice as expensive as the two Otusses. They are more expensive, but for that you get a lot more. We've discussed this more than once before and I won't bore everyone again. I really don't understand why you have to come in to every S thread and start the same old broken Otus-record again.
I don't think Leica will take the risk to invest considering this, the ROI would be low and the risk to the image of the S system as offering the best lenses would be high.
Obviously, I'm not afraid that might happen.
Now it's very possible some third party may decide to produce such an adapter, but... who would buy one? S lens existing owners will prefer to use them on their S body and who is going to spend 7,000 US$ to fit a 70mm f2.5 MF lens designed for AF applications on a DSLR?
Care to read my posts above? You can find the answer there.
I hope you take no offense, I'm not looking for a fight.
Cheers,
Peter
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The whole thing is kind of silly and not that practical for many shooters. I have some irregular practices and concepts, however. I was thinking it would be great to have a compact kit for architecture that fits into a shoulder bag. This would be highly useful for solo, overseas trips to shoot buildings. Hartblei has converted the Nikon 14-24 to a tilt/shift kit for the A7r. If I could add the Leica S 30-90 to that. I'd be able to cover any assignment with a tiny amount of gear.
Just dreaming out loud...
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Keith, thanks for the link! I enjoyed reading that article, I like most articles on TOP.
Chris, dreaming out loud is good! I can very well understand your wish to narrow down the amount of gear one has to bring along, in order to be prepared for different opportunities one might encounter.
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The S lenses are not twice as expensive as the two Otusses. They are more expensive, but for that you get a lot more.
I hope you take no offense, I'm not looking for a fight.
This thread is about using S lenses on DSLRs, right? What's weird about comparing them to DSLR lenses?
Neither am I looking for a fight, having different views isn't fighting as far ad I know? I have made it very clear that I share the view that the S lenses are great on S bodies and that I would appreciate the option to be able to use them on DSLRs.
As far as pricing goes, the street price of the S lenses are overall between 1.4 (the 70mm f2.5) and 2.5 times as expensive as the Otus in Tokyo.
http://www.yodobashi.com/ec/category/index.html?ch=0001&disptyp=02&mkrbrnds=0000001266&oword=$30e9$30a4$30abs&page=1&searchtarget=prodname&autodiscon=true
http://www.yodobashi.com/ec/category/index.html?count=24&disptyp=02&sorttyp=SELL_PRICE_DESC&cate=&word=Zeiss+otus&ginput=ライカs
Personally, the only S lens I would consider potentially superior on my DSLR than what I currently own is the 24mm and that costs 2.2 times more than the Otus 55mm f1.4, itself seen as outrageously over-priced by most. That lens alone costs 1,500 US$ more than a new Pentax 645z body in Tokyo... Again, who is going to buy that for a DSLR at that price point who doesn't already own an S body?
So I just don't think it's going to happen.
Cheers,
Bernard
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This thread is about using S lenses on DSLRs, right? What's weird about comparing them to DSLR lenses?
Neither am I looking for a fight, having different views isn't fighting as far ad I know? I have made it very clear that I share the view that the S lenses are great on S bodies and that I would appreciate the option to be able to use them on DSLRs.
Sure, the discussion was about adapting DSLR-glass (in this case Leica S) on a mirror-less and or a view camera. Since I'd given the idea of adapting S lenses some thought recently, I brought in my list of pros and cons.
As far as pricing goes, the street price of the S lenses are overall between 1.4 (the 70mm f2.5) and 2.5 times as expensive as the Otus in Tokyo.
http://www.yodobashi.com/ec/category/index.html?ch=0001&disptyp=02&mkrbrnds=0000001266&oword=$30e9$30a4$30abs&page=1&searchtarget=prodname&autodiscon=true
http://www.yodobashi.com/ec/category/index.html?count=24&disptyp=02&sorttyp=SELL_PRICE_DESC&cate=&word=Zeiss+otus&ginput=ライカs
Yes, after clicking those Japanese links I ended up in a labyrinth somewhere, but these are B&H prices:
Leica S lens line: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=leica%20s%20lens&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=
The two Otusses: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Category_Lenses&sts=ma&ci=15492&N=4293919655&Ntt=otus
So a normal FOV Otus is $4000, a normal FOV S (70mm) is $5.000. That not nearly twice as expensive, not even close. If you want to compare to the 85mm Otus, which is $4.500, so 10% cheaper than the S.
Of course there are much more S lenses, and most are indeed more expensive, but certainly not a standard twice as expensive. Besides, there are only two Otusses to compare to.
Personally, the only S lens I would consider potentially superior on my DSLR than what I currently own is the 24mm and that costs 2.2 times more than the Otus 55mm f1.4, itself seen as outrageously over-priced by most. That lens alone costs 1,500 US$ more than a new Pentax 645z body in Tokyo...
Funny you should mention the 24mm. I just got it last month, fantastic lens! Over-priced is subjective of course, have you seen the results with the 24mm? I payed €5.500,- 21% tax(VAT) included, for a second hand mint.
Again, who is going to buy that for a DSLR at that price point who doesn't already own an S body?
Not many photographers, for sure. The only thing I'm saying is: fully functional (Leica made) adapters could make such investments more versatile and therefore more worthwhile.
Cheers,
Peter
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I thought that the Lula staff was pretty darn clear but it seems no ...
(http://i.imgur.com/0s04R0v.jpg)
I personally get tired.
A7r, Otus, Nikon and so on do not have their place over here at all. I would go farer by saying (excluding 35mm and related topics)...
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Just one of the reasons I find myself coming here less and less and less. Thanks for your constructive advice.
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Just one of the reasons I find myself coming here less and less and less. Thanks for your constructive advice.
+1
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Just one of the reasons I find myself coming here less and less and less. Thanks for your constructive advice.
Chris, you and a few others like you are the reason I come here. We have all been down this "it's a MF forum" thing many times.
Regardless of the format, this subsection is far more about doing work for commerce, that what camera is being used. So many great tips that apply to guys (and gals) who earn their living with a camera.
Sadly I see less and less of that and it's a damn shame.
Stick around, and just forget the whiners.
As far as I'm concerned your work, advice and questions are always welcome here, no matter what format you are using today ( and with you, it could be just about anything 😀)
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Hi,
Some comments...
Leica made adapters for Hasselblad and Contax lenses, not the other way around. It seems that the Canon mount is very flexible, almost anything can be attached to the Canon mount. Making adapters may not be that difficult. There is a company called Leitax in Spain who makes a lot of interchangeable bayonet mounts.
Personally, I have significant interest in a 'A9' if Sony would be kind enough to make it. Mirex makes a T&S adapter with Canon mount for the A7x, it has been described here: http://www.getdpi.com/wp/2015/03/h-cam-master-ts-adapter/
I assume that I can buy an adapter from Canon EF to Hasselblad V, and that would give me tilt and shift with all Hasselblad lenses. Now, the widest Hasselblad lens I have is the Distagon 40. The lens I have on mind to extend FoV is the Canon 24 T&S. It could be used with a Metabones adapter. The other lens I would buy would probably be the Zeiss 135/2 APO Sonnar. A very good lens, AFAIK, albeit a bit long for my taste. The Otus 85/1.4 is preferable but a bit too expensive I feel.
My original plan was to go with the Hartblei HCam and my P45+ back. It is still an option. I would order the HCam with a Canon mount and buy the Canon 24 T&S. To that I would add a Mirex T&S adapter taking all my Hasselblad V-lenses.
Focusing is no problem with magnified live view, use it all the time on the Sony Alpha 99. IMHO the weak link is the A7r. I would like a camera with a EFSC (Electronic First Shutter Curtain), I have this on my Sony Alpha 99.
With the Canon mount, it would be possible to use all Canon lenses, but also most lenses for the Leica R and Nikon. Adding support for the Leica S2 would be technically feasible, but would need quite some reverse engineering to support aperture on the lenses.
AFAIK Leica S lenses are in great demand, so it is not very probable that Leica would make adapters to expand the market for their lenses. Someone else may do it, but I would guess it is a limited market and risk of litigation regarding intellectual property is pretty high.
Best regards
Erik
Here we go again ...
Of course we're talking about completely reverse engineered adapters, I thought I made that clear. As for 'investing very high amounts', obviously, that is a non-issue. They already did this for Hasseblad H and Contax 645, which are small markets, compared to CaNikon and Sony.
I agree, but these days, with high res sensors, who wants to do critical shooting on f1,4 or f2,0. (Especially troublesome with your manual focus Otus through the relatively small and dark CaNikon viewfinders)
The S lenses are not twice as expensive as the two Otusses. They are more expensive, but for that you get a lot more. We've discussed this more than once before and I won't bore everyone again. I really don't understand why you have to come in to every S thread and start the same old broken Otus-record again.
Obviously, I'm not afraid that might happen.
Care to read my posts above? You can find the answer there.
I hope you take no offense, I'm not looking for a fight.
Cheers,
Peter
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Just one of the reasons I find myself coming here less and less and less. Thanks for your constructive advice.
Sorry for my misunderstanding but you find yourself coming here less and less because :
a - My comment disturbed you ?
or
b - My comment relate the problem we encounter on this forum since months/years... ?
Because cmon guys; this forum was a mine of informations for young photographers wanting to step-up, well organised. Now it is a mess because every two days, someone bring back discussions about their 35mm gear and it disturb the forum section. It have changed drastically in roughly 3 years, and not in the good way.
Because it start to be unrealistic when a photographer come here to ask questions as meaningless as " S2 glass on A7r ?". Damn, I assume we are all adult and enough experimented to know that the best solution for architecture with the A7r have already been exposed a lot of time, probably a million time over the web. S2 glass on A7r is a NON SENSE. If one can afford a damn S lens or more, to plug it on an A7r, then he should return to school. Sorry being hard but that's the damn truth.
So I know a handful of good photographers who already left this forum for good. They'll never come back and they was very very pro and talented.
"Jack of all trades, master of none"
I do not want to apply this citation to this forum but it clearly slip to this direction.
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Because cmon guys; this forum was a mine of informations for young photographers wanting to step-up, well organised. Now it is a mess because every two days, someone bring back discussions about their 35mm gear and it disturb the forum section. It have changed drastically in roughly 3 years, and not in the good way.
Because it start to be unrealistic when a photographer come here to ask questions as meaningless as " S2 glass on A7r ?".
1) If one wants to ask a question about Leica S glass on 35mm bodies, one would best ask a group of medium format users, the only people around likely to own Leica S glass.
2) I am not for excluding 35mm users from this forum as a blanket policy. Simon's death is too fresh in my mind. He exemplified great professional work while moving from medium format to use Nikon D800/D810 bodies. And we would never have excluded him from this forum on that basis.
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1) If one wants to ask a question about Leica S glass on 35mm bodies, one would best ask a group of medium format users, the only people around likely to own Leica S glass.
That's playing with words.
2) I am not for excluding 35mm users from this forum as a blanket policy. Simon's death is too fresh in my mind. He exemplified great professional work while moving from medium format to use Nikon D800/D810 bodies. And we would never have excluded him from this forum on that basis.
I would never dare to use the death of someone to justify my opinion/point of view. It is just disrespectful and make me spit on the floor.
I came to Lula and was just shy to even ask a question because ppl over here was just big. Not living legends but big. Lula is for me a great place to learn, in silence, discipline and in a gentleman way, with well established professional photographers. A damn free workshop.
Because of lack of self discipline, most of those masters have left and then my eagerness to learn / knowledge transfer is reduced to the minimum. Thus, I start to be tired.
I might be wrong but, on the forum description, the "excluding 35mm" have been added recently. The interpretation of this might be that the mods want us to use our common sense and self discipline to respect the basic rules of their forum. Am I wrong in my interpretation ? I do not think so.
It is like a classroom. We all learn better with discipline.
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Can you explain to me why you are turning this thread into exactly the sort of thing that we both agree has driven so many quality shooters away from this forum? I didn't post this topic to start any arguments, compare formats or fuel any pointless flames. There wasn't even a hint of conflict or animosity until you showed up. I had a legitimate question about medium format equipment and as Luke said, anyone likely to have an answer would be following this section. You have no idea what I'm doing. Your response has been a less than worthless addition to this thread. I'm looking to solve a very specific problem and if I do, it could help out other photographers who happen to visit this thread. And, for your information, Stefan from Hartblei told me that this could totally work with his tilt/shift adapter, it's just a matter of adapting the Leica glass to Canon mount. The point of all this, by the way... is to take advantage of what many have called the best medium format lenses around that happen to have image circles large enough for my purposes.
I'm not content to just continue on with tried and true practices. I already own an IQ260 and view cameras and tech cameras and 12 lenses for them. These work fine, but I want to work better, more efficiently and more productively. And what was that whole bit about "if one can afford a damn S lens or more, to plug it on an A7r, then he should return to school' ? That's just ridiculous. I've just gone through my books from the last 6 years and I spend $70k a year on gear, which represents a minor portion of my annual billing. If clients are happy to pay me so well, why would I go 'back to school???' I can neither comprehend nor tolerate your belligerent and condescending tone. This forum is supposed to be about photographers helping each other out. If you don't have anything positive to add to the discourse, maybe you should just keep your tired mouth shut and ignore threads that don't interest you.
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I do not want to know your life, respectfully, and there is no animosity in that. My response has been a less than worthless addition to this thread as your thread is a worthless addition to this forum. Every sectors of photography, from space to deep sea, have been covered with specific tools who work. Every Frankenstein cameras are prone to fail, in my humble experience.
The best place for a leica S lens in on a S body. Here is your answer.
So please read that again :
(http://i.imgur.com/0s04R0v.jpg)
I have nothing against you and appreciate your work.
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Chris, your opinions and ideas are always welcome here by me. I also much appreciate your willingness to post and discuss your work, along with commenting on others.
By the way, the idea of having a zoom lens for a tech camera that can shift sounds great to me. It is always something that I felt would be nice addition, especially when you want to pack light. Joe
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I'm a very open minded guy. The live I have lived have let me to that.
When I was a young photographer and was getting into advertising, the association of advertising photographers had a meeting and one of the old guys referred to group of wedding photographers that had attended the meeting as 35mm shooters in a very pejorative way, he said they didn't have a place in that room.
This kind of reminds me of that incident.
Many of us use many different gear and we don't need to create ridiculous walls in between.
My two cents.
By the way I just bought a Kipon TS adapter for Nikon G lenses on Sony A7R.
Will be posting news in the other side of the wall.
ACH
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Hi Chris,
You could ask Leitax ( [email protected] ) about the feasibility of such an adapter. The downside may be that aperture control may be very difficult to achieve.
Best regards
Erik
I can't imagine that anyone will be engineering this, but... I'd love to be able to use Leica S2 lenses on a Tilt/Shift adapter like the Mirex on my A7r... or even mount them on the Arca M2.
Hmm...
CB
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Everybody talk about what they want, I'd rather talk about photography and any photographer I know worth their salt loves lenses.
Usually for all kinds of reasons. Some love edge to edge sharpness, some love contrast, some love smooth roll off.
I have cases of lenses and will sell a camera I'm not going to use but have a hard time selling a lens, even if I only use that lens once every year or even two years.
My favorite lens ive used in the digital period of photography is the old Hartblei (Boris) tilt shift on my contax.
(http://www.russellrutherford.com/boris_tiltshift_3a.jpg)
I love it and rarely use it to straighten lines, but to mess with focus, though even shot straight up it's pretty, not overly sharp, but just very very pretty . . . TO ME.
I have one in a contax mount (show here) and one in a Canon mount and for some reason shooting it in 35mm doesn't have the same look, don't know why just know it does.
Now to tell a silly story on myself.
When I bought the S2, 1 day before pre production on a large shoot I was goofing around and put the Leica contax adapter on the Boris and stuck it on the Leica and stuck is the appropriate word because it wouldn't come off.
I freaked, called Steve Hendrix at night (He was on his roof removing leaves from his rain gutter) and said "HELP please send me another contax adapter for the Leica, which he did asap.
But I did finally get it loose and no harm no foul, except I can't use the Boris on the Leica.
Anyway, at least this story is about photography.
IMO
BC
P.S. I suggest everyone grow a thicker skin. The social media world can be good, but usually sucks because of some of these type of conversations.
If people have been run off because of it then that's their business, but I suggest just turning your brain to ignore and keep on going.
I liked this thread, well most of it and don't care what format it is because photography is photography.
I'll admit I'm kind of tired of the D800 but that happened three years ago.
Wonderful images, as always, James.
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Now that this thread seems to be back where it should be (thankfully)- Chris, what's wrong with Canon T/S lenses on your Sony as a lightweight travel substitute for heavier MF gear?
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Actualy, those work great Andy. However, I've just ordered Hartblei's 14-24 Master TS built around the Nikon 14-24. I'm looking for something like a 30-90 to round that out and have a travel set of 2 Tilt/Shift Zooms. Once the Hartblei arrives, I think I'll just rent a Nikon 24-70 and see how that performs.
A final option is to have a medium format zoom completely rehoused. I had this done to my mini-set of Leica-R Summiluxes for Cine use...
(https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/1398782_10201931157935629_1922227625_o.jpg)
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To understand this you should read Frederic Martels book "Mainstream". Sorry, no english version I know of. It is a french book:
http://www.amazon.com/Mainstream-French-Frederic-Martel/dp/2081236176/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428672504&sr=8-1&keywords=Frederic+Martel+Mainstream
and a little interview with the author here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKI3bmv4yJ0
Best,
Johannes
Thanks, Johannes - I didn't know of Martel but must now investigate!
Best wishes,
Nick
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I am very interested in how well a zoom lens will stand up to being shifted. Please share when you do this.
I would have to imagine that zooms are not designed with the idea that they will ever be shifted. So it has me wondering how large the IC is on them and how much the sharpness drops off once you are outside the center.
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A final option is to have a medium format zoom completely rehoused. I had this done to my mini-set of Leica-R Summiluxes for Cine use...
(https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/1398782_10201931157935629_1922227625_o.jpg)
Seems impressive workmanship - may I ask who did the re-housing ?
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Van Diemen (http://vandiemenbroadcast.co.uk/) in the UK. Took half a year and a pile of cash, but they are beautiful.
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... but they are beautiful.
Indeed they are!
Many thanks, Chris.
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Now these aren't Leica, but I've been using a couple of the Pentax 645 lenses on a zork adapter (35/75 and 120 macro).
These three always hold up well.
I've always wondered how the zooms would hold up. If anyone in Vancouver has a Pentax 645 zoom (33-55 or the 80-160), I'd be happy to run a couple of tests with them.
AL
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Not related to this topic but might be interesting.
A quick dirty test. Sony A7R + Kipon TS Nikon G to Sony E Adapter + Nikon 14-24mm 2.8 Zoom Lens.
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=99222.20 (http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=99222.20)
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Just one of the reasons I find myself coming here less and less and less. Thanks for your constructive advice.
Let's face it.
This section "USE" to be for the more involved photographers, mainly because the only people that bought into medium format were pros or serious enthusiasts.
There was always cross over on formats because professionals have to use multiple formats and everybody needed a backup.
Now that smaller than medium format cameras have narrowed the quality gap and post production is just if not more important than the capture device, the lines are blurred more.
In fact Medium format for a long time was ONLY medium format because of the cameras, not the sensor. It took forever to get a FF 645 (which was the smallest of medium format) and now there seems a turn back to even smaller than 645, so I'm not too sure you could call a Leica S2, Pentax or the cmos Phase/Leaf medium format cameras.
Pro or semi pro cameras . . . yes, but medium format . . . I'm not sure that designation really is appropriate anymore.
For me I have a lot of cameras, but honestly, if the Sony A7 series had a full line of fast lenses (not F4 but at least F2), and would track focus and tether professionally, I would have ditched everything and just bought a bunch of those. R for high end print, S for B cam motion imagery.
Instead of RED's I'd have then bought F5's for A cam but the Sony A series just doesn't focus well enough for me and I think they are still at version 1 and need a few more trys to get it right, like less compression and as I mentioned better focusing.
But bottom line TO ME on this section of the forum is it use to attract the better artists, paid pros or the do it for the art crowd, but now it seems those people seem less involved.
I think one main reason is anything we post to the public has to have a return. Use to my return was learning and giving back, but today is different.
Rather than a Fun with images thread I would strongly suggest a gallery section with a place to put put info on every image with metadata to trace the artist.
Then there is a possible return for the posters other than involvement.
Anyway . . .
In other words I don't think we need more rules, I think we need less, but it's not my site and probably none of my business.
IMO
BC
OH BTW: there should be a way to embed a video preview link on a post.
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In other words I don't think we need more rules, I think we need less, but it's not my site and probably none of my business.
IMO
BC
Forum specific, or society in general...
;-)
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Let's face it.
This section "USE" to be for the more involved photographers, mainly because the only people that bought into medium format were pros or serious enthusiasts.
There was always cross over on formats because professionals have to use multiple formats and everybody needed a backup.
Now that smaller than medium format cameras have narrowed the quality gap and post production is just if not more important than the capture device, the lines are blurred more.
In fact Medium format for a long time was ONLY medium format because of the cameras, not the sensor. It took forever to get a FF 645 (which was the smallest of medium format) and now there seems a turn back to even smaller than 645, so I'm not too sure you could call a Leica S2, Pentax or the cmos Phase/Leaf medium format cameras.
Pro or semi pro cameras . . . yes, but medium format . . . I'm not sure that designation really is appropriate anymore.
For me I have a lot of cameras, but honestly, if the Sony A7 series had a full line of fast lenses (not F4 but at least F2), and would track focus and tether professionally, I would have ditched everything and just bought a bunch of those. R for high end print, S for B cam motion imagery.
Instead of RED's I'd have then bought F5's for A cam but the Sony A series just doesn't focus well enough for me and I think they are still at version 1 and need a few more trys to get it right, like less compression and as I mentioned better focusing.
But bottom line TO ME on this section of the forum is it use to attract the better artists, paid pros or the do it for the art crowd, but now it seems those people seem less involved.
I think one main reason is anything we post to the public has to have a return. Use to my return was learning and giving back, but today is different.
Rather than a Fun with images thread I would strongly suggest a gallery section with a place to put put info on every image with metadata to trace the artist.
Then there is a possible return for the posters other than involvement.
Anyway . . .
In other words I don't think we need more rules, I think we need less, but it's not my site and probably none of my business.
IMO
BC
OH BTW: there should be a way to embed a video preview link on a post.
Great post.
Makes me think about an interview I watched today with Greg Heisler (I love his work) (https://vimeo.com/78540574). He was talking about the Mayor Giuliani shot on top of the Empire State building. I always knew he shot it with an 8x10, but prior to today just thought it was because he likes 8x10.
No. He did it because he needed a wide angle view and wanted to separate the Mayor from the background. A wide on a 35mm would just put everything in focus. MF did not do it either. 4x5 came closer. But 8x10 was the format that did it.
Makes me think about how many still treat the formats like this? ???
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But bottom line TO ME on this section of the forum is it use to attract the better artists, paid pros or the do it for the art crowd, but now it seems those people seem less involved.
I think there are a lot of less of those people, period. We're living in an Instagram, flared back light in every shot, iPhone selfie world that rarely recognizes the skill shooters like you have, much less appreciates it.
Your client list may be stable or even growing. I expect the same is true for Chris. But the crew that's coming up behind you have neither skill nor the vision and their client list is growing.
IMO