Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: JB Rasor on March 23, 2015, 10:29:46 pm
-
My apologies if I'm late to the party and this issue has been discussed to death. I found only two threads on Lula but if I'm missing any please let me know.
I have several upcoming shoots that need to be tethered, using the Pentax 645z. I'm under the impression there is no way it can tether to Lightroom. Is that correct? I hate to buy Capture One for that single purpose. Is anyone using another solution?
I'd love to have the files read directly to the computer drive, the way Lightroom tethering works, if possible.
Thanks everyone!
JB Rasor
-
Capture One v8 does not support raw files from, nor tethering to, the 645z.
The only medium format solutions Capture One supports are Team Phase One solutions (Phase/Leaf/Mamiya).
-
Thanks Doug.
After doing some more research it seems like the only tethering solution is Image Transmitter 2. Hmmm. Seems odd to me that's the only option. But I guess I'll have to go with it unless anyone has other alternatives.
Thanks again all!
JB
-
Hi,
LR has no controls for the camera, but most cameras can use a feature called watched folder. So if you have a remote control application for the camera it and it can be told to write a file to a specified directory on your hard disk, that folder can be imported automatically by Lightroom. This actually works fine. I am pretty sure James Russel uses this approach with his Leica S2.
That leaves you with the need of a good remote control option for the camera.
This may also be some help: http://regex.info/blog/lightroom-goodies/folder-watch
Best regards
Erik
Thanks Doug.
After doing some more research it seems like the only tethering solution is Image Transmitter 2. Hmmm. Seems odd to me that's the only option. But I guess I'll have to go with it unless anyone has other alternatives.
Thanks again all!
JB
-
Hi JB,
I just left a long reply at the 645z FB group. The short answer is that IT2 is just the pipeline to bring the image to the computer. Then you use LR or C1 or whatever to display it. IT2 lets you pick what folder you send the files to, and then you make that a 'watched' folder for auto import in your processor software.
The best workflow is to send Large, 1* jepgs, and write the RAWs to the camera. If you just want to see what you're shooting as you go, this is a good solution. C1 actually displays the Jpegs slightly faster than LR, ironically, but can only do RAWS with a 3rd Party hack, and then they look like shit. Phocus works too with the jpegs, if you happen to have a copy.
This is how I work (with LR). I import the Raws afterwards, and LR matches them up to the jpegs and I edit from there.
It works just fine. I hope LR does native tether support soon. The reason it's slower than native phase or hassy tether is because of some internal processing by the 645z that i can't get to stop. That adds about 3.5 seconds. Actual transfer is virtually instantaneous (since it's USB3).
Let us know if you have questions.
- N.
-
This link seems to offer a fix that allows you to tether images into Capture 1
http://www.alexmunoz.net/capturefix/
-
This link seems to offer a fix that allows you to tether images into Capture 1
While this makes the files editable in C1, it doesn't give you the camera control that you get in a native support method.
Lightroom can be configured to 'watch' a folder and import anything that shows up there. It's not the same as the tethered workflow where you can make settings adjustments on the camera from the computer.
You're looking for a package ala Image Transmitter 2 - but be careful - Pentax may not have their bugs worked out... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1095284-REG/pentax_38553_image_transmitter_2_dvd.html
-
It's a pity that Pentax has put together a useful option for photographers that need fast, comprehensive software for tethered shooting. This is imperative for studio photographers.
-
Pentax released a firmware for the 645z update along with a version update to IT2 today, both aimed at improving performance in a number of ways. I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but their attention to the issue is at least promising.
- N.
-
I have no problems shooting raw DNGs from the camera through IT2 to Lightroom watched folder. It takes about 4 seconds or so and works much better IMHO than my Canon does with C1.
You jut have to remember not to shoot too quickly but other than that it works fine.
R
-
My initial brief tests with the IT2 / firmware update is that it now transmits to the computer a good deal faster and the only delay is in LR producing previews. Stability with bursts of images seems improved as well, but I need to play with it more to know.
I'd say it's fully equal to Leicashuttle now.
- N.
-
Similar findings as Nick with new firmware. About 5 seconds to preview in LR for me; 2 seconds to show in IT2. Hoping when LR 6 is released the LR preview time improves.
Those that are tethering with the Z , or D may be interested in this cable anchor made by RRS. Works well in keeping either straight , or right-angle USB 3 cables secured. It is called a CA-1. Attaches to an existing arca-style plate on the side tripod mount of the camera.
-
So I tried the updated DCU5. It does bring in the images, but displaying is slow and flaky. Disappointing but not unexpected. For pure speed, I think the answer is IT2 --> C1, using L* jpegs. I think that will bring up previews as fast as any system out there. Hopefully LR6 picks up the pace a bit.
- N.
-
Does the it2 work with the Pentax 645d?
-
No. There apparently was an IT1
- N.
-
Just purchased 645Z. I am curious about Tether solutions as well. Some passed this to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_VDosb-scA
-
IT2 as a conduit into LR is the best option. Works fine. Not perfect and LR rendering of previews is the bottleneck. Not quite as good as C1 or Phocus, but it works.
- N.
-
Same experience here, works but is a little slow. Fine for architecture & interiors, but may not be fast enough for fashion or portrait work.
MB
-
1. Bought 645Z.
2. Download 1.21 firmware and installed it.
3. Got Image Transmitter 2.
4. Works fine, first go-round with IT2, but IT2 is a sad piece of software. A non-resizable fixed window, maybe made for a 13 inch laptop. Feels like IBM 1989 with Pocket Protector.
5. Will now try to use IT2 as a bridge to Lightroom.
6. For second generation IT software, super-disappointing.
More work ahead.
Update:
So I tested IT2 in the background, accepting the first round of image intake. Then, Lightroom imports the Watched IT2 folder.
1. Shooting a RAW file: Imported into Lightroom for review in 23 seconds.
2. Shooting a Small JPG: Imported in Lightroom for review in 17 seconds.
Both, to me, for a real advertising job: Completely unacceptable.
-
They just updated lightroom cc and now the files using it2 takes about 2-3 seconds to appear. I don't know where you're getting 23 seconds from. Even before the update it would be around 8-12 seconds. You can also go on YouTube type in Pentax, Alex munos did a video on tethering probably a week ago talking about it.
-
Yeah, the transfer time is about 5-7 seconds into LR. Make sure all your image correction settings are turned off in the camera.
- N.
-
Yes, massive improvement to go to Lightroom CC most recent. Just did that, and now I'm getting raws at about four seconds and JPGs at three seconds, into LR. USB3 cable, into MacBookPro 15 Retina. Thanks for your help.
-
To anyone else trying to tether a 645Z:
I'm setting the Slot 1 to RAW and save to Card.
I'm setting the Slot 2 to JPG Extra Small, and only one star of quality. (Seemingly the smallest possible size for tether).
I'm only sending the Extra Small JPG to the Watched Destination Folder. Then, Lightroom CC watches for a new JPG and imports it.
I'm getting four seconds, from time of shutter release to viewing it in Lightroom. To me, for a real job under pressure, this seems too long. Are there any other tweaks to the camera, or to Lightroom, or to ImageTransmitter 2, to speed up the transfer?
Using white short USB 3.0 cable, to the USB port of a 15 inch Retina MBook Pro.
Any help appreciated.
-
I think that, for the moment, 4 seconds is as good as you are going to get.
-
Use a Large 1* jpeg. The camera doesn't have to downsize it then. I found these faster than smalls, ironically.
-
Looks like some good progress has been made with IT2 and LR. Good to know. 3-4 seconds is fine, heck I remember when I had to go to a darkroom just to see negatives and tbat took many hours to get a dry negative which had to be enlraged to see what I had on a proof sheet-which useed to look like LR filmstrip at the bottom.
-
Thanks Nick. I ended up returning the camera. The whole tethering thing is just too quirky and slow for advertising work. Amazed why, if the camera has been out for a year, that Adobe has not adopted it for tethering.
Will stick with 5D3 and the new R version for jobs. Clients don't want excuses, on set. It must work. Surprised that for a camera that's second generation now, and one that's set to compete with Phase and Hasselblad, that a solid tether solution was not found before it was released.
It's a great camera; it's a shame about the tethering.
-
Thanks Nick. I ended up returning the camera. The whole tethering thing is just too quirky and slow for advertising work. Amazed why, if the camera has been out for a year, that Adobe has not adopted it for tethering.
Will stick with 5D3 and the new R version for jobs. Clients don't want excuses, on set. It must work. Surprised that for a camera that's second generation now, and one that's set to compete with Phase and Hasselblad, that a solid tether solution was not found before it was released.
It's a great camera; it's a shame about the tethering.
"that a solid tether solution was not found" makes it sound like the engineers just need to look around more and they'll find good tethering hiding in a box at the back of the closet.
It's very easy to underestimate how hard it is to do high-resolution, high-speed raw tethering.
Phase One has been doing medium format tethering since 1998 and has been working on and tweaking USB3 tethering since before USB3 became a stable standard. They were tethering 22mp with fast transfer times at a time when just opening a 22mp JPG could crash a normal PC. They were tethering 80mp raw files back in 2010. They have a lot of history and expertise in tethering, and it is central to a large percentage of their target market.
All the internals (both hardware and firmware) of a Phase One back are designed and selected for use in a high-performance digital back; nothing is repurposed from consumer cameras. The R+D team can select internal components based on performance rather than value. Moreover the hardware/firmware team can work directly with the software team at the lowest level. Every bottleneck from shutter-release to final-display on screen can be eliminated.
Phase has one of the best raw compression algorithms, and a great compression pipeline (the raw file is compressed on it's way to the buffer, so it can be read out of the buffer faster). They use an in-house designed four-core processor to chug through compressing high resolution raw files nearly instantly. Their lossless compression is class leading and their IIQ-S lossy compression results in an even smaller raw file (same resolution, smaller in megabytes) which has very nearly zero visual loss in quality even when you push the crap out of the file and you know what to look for. An IQ250 IIQ-S file is around 30mb.
Phase One is also a huge player in the industrial mapping aerial market - using the same backs as you buy as a commercial photographer. This market demands cameras that can capture at an absolutely consistent rate for tens of thousands of captures in a row; hitting a buffer or slowing down means the plane has to make another run and burn more fuel - absolutely unacceptable. All of the hardware technology, software refinement, firmware improvements, and general knowledge Phase One gains from serving this market benefits their commercial clients.
If you put all these ingredients/advantages together you can machine gun on a Phase One IQ250 (https://digitaltransitions.com/page/phase-one-iq250) (or IQ150 or Credo 50 etc) for minutes and look over see the most recent image you captured come in almost instantly. No need to shoot JPGs and reconcile selects/adjustments/edits with raws later; every file sent was the full raw file. No need for two separate programs, just Capture One. You even get native wireless review/editing/control to an iPad/iPhone as a nice bonus for when you don't want to be tethered.
-
Make the cheque payable to : "Luminous Landscape, Advertising Receivables".
Seriously. Helpful technical insights from sales reps, who often have a wealth of working knowledge, is a useful and appropriate contribution to the forum, and legitimately showcases their potential to be helpful partners to working photographers. But most photographers looking to pay a $25,000 markup on a digital back know how to find a press release on the internet.
gwhitf : I agree that the tethering is below what I would have expected and desired.There is no read technical or business reason for this deficiency besides a failure to understand market. I think Canon will, haters notwithstanding, do very well with the 5Dr, as I gather Canon's tethering is still best-in-class.
- N.
-
Make the cheque payable to : "Luminous Landscape, Advertising Receivables".
ROFL
As raw files become larger, perhaps we'll begin to see SDI/coaxial cables and SSD drive packs with monitors, and do away with USB. Wouldn't that be dismal on a backpacking trip.
-
ROFL
As raw files become larger, perhaps we'll begin to see SDI/coaxial cables and SSD drive packs with monitors, and do away with USB. Wouldn't that be dismal on a backpacking trip.
Much of what Doug says is relevant, but once it gets going, consumer technology with its attendant economies of scale always outstrips special purpose tech.
The movie guys have been dealing with the data rate issues for ages - they have solutions for this eg. 4K@60Fps, and I think we're going to see them adapted to the still camera world anyway, because almost every still camera sold now is also a movie camera.
I think the most recent iteration of HDMI already has the necessary bandwidth.
Edmund
-
Surprised that for a camera that's second generation now, and one that's set to compete with Phase and Hasselblad, that a solid tether solution was not found before it was released.
In my opinion Pentax isn't competing with Phase and Hasselblad. It doesn't have a removable back, it doesn't have any (practical) leaf shutter lenses, but the new lenses are being equipped with stabilization from here on out, and the sensor is optimized for sensitivity. The 645Z is surely a landscape and hand-held available light photographers dream camera right now, and while I am happily using it the studio as well as outside, your use case is the kind Phase and Hasselblad cater to. I was actually surprised Pentax even had a tethering solution when I first learned about the Image Transmitter software recently, let alone the price they're charging for it.
-
I'm a commercial photographer who works primarily in studio. My main camera is the Canon 5D3, but I'm slowly incorporating the 645z into my workflow as I grow more comfortable with it.
Personally, I find the 3-4 seconds wait time in LR to be just fine. If a client is at the monitor, 3-4 seconds is just enough time to gauge whether the image is a keeper and to entertain thoughts on any adjustments to what I'm doing in terms of lighting, composition, posing, etc. I do expect, or at least hope, that Pentax continues to refine the software to offer us a better interface, as well as speed to offer a more satisfying workflow for those who want images to appear more quickly.
-
Of course Doug is absolutely correct: Phase is now the runaway leader in all this advertising work. There's CaptureOne and then there's everything else. No question. If there's a big budget on the table, you simply call up and rent the Phase camera and back.
Pentax *is* marketing the 645Z against the Hassie and Phase. I've seen their three-column comparison feature checklist. Nowhere in there is Canon or Nikon mentioned. Of course Pentax is competing with price. And it is a very good camera.
But without tethering, isn't really just competing against Nikon and Canon? And now with the 5dsR on the way by end of month, it'll be interesting how they fare.
I also wonder why Adobe has not adopted them into the list of supported cameras; the 645Z has been out for a year or so now; Adobe is usually very quick to adopt. There must be a reason. But without Adobe, Pentax really loses. Because Phase will obviously block Pentax from CaptureOne, unless it's thru the use of a watched Hot Folder. Which is very slow.
Yes, the hot folder would work, but when there's a job on the line, the Pentax workflow does not inspire confidence.
All these are my subjective personal opinions. It might be different from everyone reading this. But with used Pentax lenses getting hard to find, and when the 90mm is $4400, and without tethering, the Canon or Nikon solution seems much more appealing.
One opinion.
-
Pentax *is* marketing the 645Z against the Hassie and Phase. I've seen their three-column comparison feature checklist. Nowhere in there is Canon or Nikon mentioned. Of course Pentax is competing with price. And it is a very good camera.
I would agree with Doug and probably everybody else on this forum that the Phase solution is still much more flexible than the 645Z, many of us doubtless feel that the lenses of the Leica are way better than those sold by Pentax, and personally I prefer the Hassy ergonomics. But most of us at some point need to look to the price, and this is where the Pentax has a completely unfair advantage.
By the time Phase upgrades their camera body to match the high level set by their backs and software, I would expect Pentax to bring out new electronics with better tethering - Japanese engineers do have a proven track record of creating capable electronic hardware.
Edmund
-
By the time Phase upgrades their camera body to match the high level set by their backs and software, I would expect Pentax to bring out new electronics with better tethering - Japanese engineers do have a proven track record of creating capable electronic hardware.
Edmund
Phase One upgraded camera body.
Pentax new electronics with better tethering.
Are you willing to wager that Pentax is first in this scenario?
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
-
I would agree with Doug and probably everybody else on this forum that the Phase solution is still much more flexible than the 645Z, many of us doubtless feel that the lenses of the Leica are way better than those sold by Pentax, and personally I prefer the Hassy ergonomics. But most of us at some point need to look to the price, and this is where the Pentax has a completely unfair advantage.
By the time Phase upgrades their camera body to match the high level set by their backs and software, I would expect Pentax to bring out new electronics with better tethering - Japanese engineers do have a proven track record of creating capable electronic hardware.
Edmund
You wont rest until PhaseOne is bankrupt and off the face of the earth. You are pretty persistent I give you that.
The Hasselblad H5X is available and its an excellent body and the H lens line is extensive and of very high quality.
The 645z is a great body looking for lenses and of course a CaptureOne like solution.
Yes, the H system lenses are not exactly cheap. But the new Pentax 645 lenses are not either.
-
QUOTED: "By the time Phase upgrades their camera body to match the high level set by their backs and software, I would expect Pentax to bring out new electronics with better tethering - Japanese engineers do have a proven track record of creating capable electronic hardware." END QUOTE
I paid full price for Image Transmitter 1 at $299. It was really crude and basic, but I cut them some slack since it was first generation. When I received Image Transmitter 2, I fully expected that they'd had the time to really develop the software for full tethering. But in fact, I could see little if any difference in Version 1 and Version 2 of the software; only that it had been altered to run the 645Z instead of the 645D.
Until Pentax fully understands that part of the reason to buy this camera, is to tether it for pressure advertising jobs, I think the software will be considered an afterthought. Like Doug said, it takes a major commitment of enthusiasm and money to develop working software -- look how long it took Capture One to be really stable -- years and years.
So don't get your hopes up about Pentax tethering. I don't know who they see their target audience, but it does not seem to be advertising photographers, who have come out of years of medium format shooting. It seems to be landscape guys, so why bother with tethering at all?
The whole "hot watched folder" approach is just silly. Yes, it might work, but if you trot that out for a client who's used to Capture One quickness and thoroughness, you're going to have a very disappointed client.
One subjective opinion.
-
QUOTED: "By the time Phase upgrades their camera body to match the high level set by their backs and software, I would expect Pentax to bring out new electronics with better tethering - Japanese engineers do have a proven track record of creating capable electronic hardware." END QUOTE
So don't get your hopes up about Pentax tethering. I don't know who they see their target audience, but it does not seem to be advertising photographers, who have come out of years of medium format shooting. It seems to be landscape guys, so why bother with tethering at all?
The whole "hot watched folder" approach is just silly. Yes, it might work, but if you trot that out for a client who's used to Capture One quickness and thoroughness, you're going to have a very disappointed client.
One subjective opinion.
There is some innovative tech in the latest Phase, Pentax, Hassy products, it is the fact that the Sony backs can extract information at high frame rates (video).
For now I think all three companies have simply adapted the working process of their old backs, dumping complete images down the tether. But we are going to see mirrorless MF soon, and electronic viewfinders. Video technology has entered the still photo arena, and we can count on some disruption. I expect photographers will also adapt to extracting stills from video.
Edmund
-
Phase One upgraded camera body.
Pentax new electronics with better tethering.
Are you willing to wager that Pentax is first in this scenario?
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Steve,
As you are handing me a soapbox, I would say that paradoxically it doesn't matter if Phase puts a new bodybox in front of an IQ back, their real problem and need for investment comes with the necessity of revamping their back's architecture completely to deal with the challenges and abilities of mirrorless, EVFs and on-sensor focus, and burst-video Medium Format frame rates.
The pro photo market is pushed by the consumer tech, and video is undergoing a huge acceleration that will unavoidably up the expectations in the advertising and live-shot business. The problem is not that Pentax might tether a bit faster, it is that the customer might demand that a Phase back do 60 images per second frame rates like a RED or ARRI, at least in bursts of a few seconds, with fast preview and preview scrolling on the back's monitor and on an attached PC. The real future competition for Phase in advertising is not Pentax, it is the video camera crowd who historically have had access to very similar albeit smaller sensors, but who also have developed and perfected the technology for offloading, previewing and storing the data at a much higher framerate.
Edmund
-
Steve,
As you are handing me a soapbox, I would say that paradoxically it doesn't matter if Phase puts a new bodybox in front of an IQ back, their real problem and need for investment comes with the necessity of revamping their back's architecture completely to deal with the challenges and abilities of mirrorless, EVFs and on-sensor focus, and burst-video Medium Format frame rates.
The pro photo market is pushed by the consumer tech, and video is undergoing a huge acceleration that will unavoidably up the expectations in the advertising and live-shot business. The problem is not that Pentax might tether a bit faster, it is that the customer might demand that a Phase back do 60 images per second frame rates like a RED or ARRI, at least in bursts of a few seconds, with fast preview and preview scrolling on the back's monitor and on an attached PC. The real future competition for Phase in advertising is not Pentax, it is the video camera crowd who historically have had access to very similar albeit smaller sensors, but who also have developed and perfected the technology for offloading, previewing and storing the data at a much higher framerate.
Edmund
Yeah, well that's kind of a different topic direction, since you brought up Pentax and Phase delivery dates, I was only trying to get a free sip of France's finest beverage on your behalf.
Steve Hendrix
CI
-
Until Pentax fully understands that part of the reason to buy this camera, is to tether it for pressure advertising jobs, I think the software will be considered an afterthought. Like Doug said, it takes a major commitment of enthusiasm and money to develop working software -- look how long it took Capture One to be really stable -- years and years.
My article on Building the House of Capture One (https://fstoppers.com/composite/building-house-capture-one-version-8-imaging-software-evolution-48435) covers some of those dark years. They were dark indeed and there were several of them; did anybody use Capture One 4.5? Sorry about that ;D. And that was with a quite large team of programmers, and strong pressure from the head of the company.
Or look at LightRoom; Adobe is one of the finest programming companies in the imaging business and has a huge team of programmers, but because their focus is more on the middle 75% of the market you'll find Capture One is still the tethering tool of choice in most high-end studios, rental houses, and production facilities (whether for Phase or for Canon/Nikon/Sony).
When you look at hardware it is easy to understand why it is complicated/hard to do well. It's easy to look at software and think that "basic functionality" and "minimal features" would be fast and easy to do well. It's just one of the inexorable facts of life that nearly every job is more complicated and requires more skill/talent/time than it appears from the outside.
-
Yeah, well that's kind of a different topic direction, since you brought up Pentax and Phase delivery dates, I was only trying to get a free sip of France's finest beverage on your behalf.
Steve Hendrix
CI
You can do me a really good deal on a cheap Hassy or Leica someone gave away, and I'll throw in a free Magnum :)
If you're desperate, I can ship one to you anyway, just so you get some relief from your high-tech monotony out there in Kansas ...
Edmund
-
You can do me a really good deal on a cheap Hassy or Leica someone gave away, and I'll throw in a free Magnum :)
If you're desperate, I can ship one to you anyway, just so you get some relief from your high-tech monotony out there in Kansas ...
Edmund
Hey, send some of that up to our New England branch, I need to, um, test it. Yeah, that...
The video is making progression; even in my personal experience I rarely recommend a P+ back if people are used to Live View for any sort of focus checking. The IQ live view was better, and the CMOS better even so. Hopefully soon this translates into some sort of a video mode, as it had originally around the Canon 5D Mark II generation of cameras and their Live Views
-
J,
I know the cine cams don't cut it, yet. But I was trying to say that *all* the new MF backs *already* have CMOS chips similar to those used in video in them, with the same interfaces, so it's a *solved* engineering problem to get the images much faster, especially if you don't need full rez. The problem is that we're still stuck with what engineers call "horseless carriage" mentality, ie when the first engine driven vehicles were made people wanted them to look as if a horse was pulling them, minus the horse :)
The original interframe CCD chips could do a lot of stuff, because they were video designs, but they lost this capability when the market got segmented into stills and video, and the "full frame CCD" designs got used which couldn't be read out quickly, and never during exposure. Now the wheel has turned and we again have video designs in the still cameras.
link to Panhard Levassor, image musée des arts et métiers. (http://www.arts-et-metiers.net/sites/arts-et-metiers.net/files/styles/objet_collection/public/0001742_005.jpg?itok=sptzsYVb)
Edmund
-
Good to hear from you, Big Cooter. I agree -- in the big picture, it's moving at a glacial pace. I think Apple is leapfrogging everyone in terms of innovation for the Real World. I'd follow them before I'd follow Phase or any medium format company. And not to let Canon or Nikon off the hook either -- why is there not an Internal Modem option for any of these cameras? If I had a dollar for every time I've had this request from an out of town AD: "Uh, after you do the first few test shots, could you take your iPhone and hold it up to the back of the LCD of the Canon, and 'shoot a Polaroid of it' and text it to me? I'd like to offer up some feedback". For the record I've never done that once; the admission price for getting to give feedback is that you sit your ass on that squeezed airplane, and come to the shoot.
But why can you not text or email from a $7000 Nikon or Canon, in the year 2015?
If you're a journalist, why do you have to download cards to a laptop first, in a breaking news event? Why can't you transmit one or two choice JPG images, from the Cop Shooting, in the street, to the magazine or the newspaper?
Follow Apple; not camera companies.
-
Follow Apple; not camera companies.
That's because camera companies don't write decent software (Phase being and honourable exception and Phocus does what the studio set up needs).
They are struggling because the expansion into digital has not stalled it's gone into free fall so there is no money to put in. As has been said here look at how long it took Phase to get C1 to where it is.
Nikon 2015 results are just in:
Interchangeable lens camera (ILC) unit volume down nearly 20%, although market share increased to 34%. (Many others did worse!!)
Lens unit volume down 19%, and now 29.5% market share.
Compact camera unit volume down 31%, with a 27% market share.
It takes bold management to pour money into those figures to develop software when your core business is designing and making lens and camera hardware.
Add to that the lack of engagement with grass roots users. Yes the big companies have ambassadors, champions etc but they are long past being grass roots, the work comes to them now.
One word sums up the issue: connectivity.
Now if Apple bought Nikon ;)
-
Add to that the lack of engagement with grass roots users. Yes the big companies have ambassadors, champions etc but they are long past being grass roots, the work comes to them now.
One word sums up the issue: connectivity.
Now if Apple bought Nikon ;)
Quite true, they have no more contact with grassroots.
They should be crawling all over the enthusiasts - a pro will renew his equipment on plan, an enthusisast can be sold.
One striking thing when you go to a still photography event is how old the attendees all are.
My dealer told me that anyway in France there isn no reason to sell to young people because they have little money.
The aging userbase may explain why the connectivity is so bad.
Edmund
-
That's because camera companies don't write decent software (Phase being and honourable exception and Phocus does what the studio set up needs).
They are struggling because the expansion into digital has not stalled it's gone into free fall so there is no money to put in.
Totally agree.
* I should be able to hook my iPhone up to my Pentax 645Z or Phase One camera at this point, and download an image, and then take it into Snap Seed. Even better would be WIFI built into the camera to be able to send to iPhone or iPad nearby. All without a laptop or Digital Tech or any kind of external computer.
* Google just bought SnapSeed and made it even better. Burn and Dodge, using the tip of your finger, on an iPhone. Amazing. It was good before, and Google made it better. Why did Nikon or Canon not buy Snapseed, and put up a barrier to entry to the other brands? Just like how CaptureOne won't allow Pentax 645Z to tether directly into it. They built a wall to protect themselves.
* Go and download ProCamera8. It'll blow your mind how good it is, in HDR B/W. Shoots a 22meg file from an iPhone6.
* The new iPhone6s, in September release, is rumored to have a 12MP camera. Apple is putting horsepower into the camera section of the new iPhone.
Link: http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/05/15/rumor-12mp-camera-in-apples-iphone-6s-will-pack-in-smaller-pixels
* The world (read: Apple) is leapfrogging the Nikon and Canon quickly. Witness market share numbers above.
* I truly thought the Pentax 645Z would be a leapfrog improvement over the D. I guess it is, is pixel count is all that matters. But honestly, who would shoot video with a Pentax 645Z? Pentax/Ricoh doesn't have a clue who they are, or who they're marketing to.
* I bought a snazzy Leica Point/Shoot a few months ago from B&H. It arrived and I didn't even open the box; just returned it. Because I knew I'd only carry the iPhone6 in my pocket everywhere. Leica survives by now by marketing to ultra rich; they have money, but yes, those dudes are old, and getting older. How much longer can they survive when the rich guy with sweater tied around his neck carries the Leica to impress his friends, but only shoots photos with his iPhone6?
* The business is changing very very very quickly. You could make a case that your Instagram Page is more important than your actual Website Page. What does that tell you? Everybody is only on their phone or iPad. Do an experiment: Go and look at your own website on your iPhone and tell me how lame it looks, and how long it takes to load, (using cellular, not WIFI). Look how bad it looks. Like HTML 1989. Then, go to Instagram.com, and watch how fluid and fast everything loads. And then sit there and try to imagine how to position your business even five years from now. It's mindbogglingly hard.
-
I guess you missed that Phase One already implemented iPhone/iPad connectivity in the IQ2 series. No computer required. No 3rd party hardware/software required (other than the iPad or iPhone of course); it's all native Phase One. We'd be glad to remotely demo you that feature.
-
I am not in any of your leagues, but now that the discussion has turned to what it has, does the FLU card have any use here? It can send a jpeg to an iPad or phone or screen and is it not the same jpeg you would be looking at via wired tethering which seems a bit old school to me. Again no criticism, just wondering what's the future of Flu card and over the air tethering?
-
I guess you missed that Phase One already implemented iPhone/iPad connectivity in the IQ2 series. No computer required. No 3rd party hardware/software required (other than the iPad or iPhone of course); it's all native Phase One. We'd be glad to remotely demo you that feature.
Glad to see that someone out there is listening. It's nice to Phase taking the lead in this respect. :)
-
As good as Capture Pilot and an IQ2 back sounds there are problems, problems that have been there from day 1 and also never addressed.
1. The 100% view on a current iPad with latest verison of iOS and Capture Pilot cannot give you a sharp view, sharp enough to really determine critical focus. I have found this the case with any retina device. Supposedly the 100% view on the mini before retina was OK, but I never owned one. I have tried the view on 2 different versions of retina iPad, and iPhones. If you attempt to compare the views from the back's LCD and the screen on iPad, there is no comparison. You can "shrink" the screen view a bit but it still can give you a false sense of true focus. The view at 100% when tethered is much better and allows for no mistakes. The "respect retina" checkbox really doesn't help.
2. The connection via the adhoc wifi link from the back is still flaky and many times requires, iPad hard reboot, back reboot or both. Sometimes you get a hit and all the images cross over, and other times 50% come across, etc. When the connection 'works" the transfer is fast. However with my IQ2 back, most times the connection will break and then a lot of time is spent attempting to require.
3. When viewing at 100%, moving around the image can cause a lot of freezes, and disconnections. There seems to be no reason when this will occur, but when it does it also tends to require a re-boot of one device or both.
I am not using the connection for camera controls as I use a tech camera. The Capture Pilot/iPad solution really was one of the reasons I considered the IQ2 back as the flexibility of not being tethered really appealed to me. If you search out on the web, you will find a lot of detailed information from other IQ2 users where they have found that the tethered solution is better overall, at least for a tech solution.
What has disappointed me, is that Phase One can't seem to address the 100% view issue. There are a lot of applications out there that seem to be able to do this, with photo viewing in mind.
I think it's fair to say that no improvements will follow as the application has been live now for quite a while.
Where I have found the wifi useful:
1. When attempting to send a client a shot from the Phase One, to give them an idea of the scene, it's nice to be able to do this quickly in the field when needed. Sure it's not worked up in C1 but they get a general idea.
2. The Wifi and Liveview connection is a great solution for a tech user if they own a IQ250 as it lets you frame a shot with the camera low or in a position where it's hard to get down to view the back's LCD. I have seen this work in the field and it's a excellent solution basically giving you a tilting LCD screen which can be very helpful, especially when combined with a geared head. This allows you to hold the iPhone in one hand and make the adjustments to the camera (with the gearing) with the other hand.
Paul
-
Paul, in the last year all of our demo and rental systems have shown rock solid wireless performance. If you're still experiencing issues please contact our support team and they will help troubleshoot.
-
Don't you love when people know what they're selling? :D :D :D
Last presentation I went to was profoto's tungsten/HMI, and they knew their stuff, but part of the design team was there, normally people from sales team do this things ant they just don't know because they aren't going to use the product ever and just memorize the brochure :-\
-
Cooter,
Hmmm, I would expect them to be hiring *you* instead of Vincent La Forêt to do the demo and sing the praises of this thing -
Maybe there is some lemonade to be made from this lemon?
Edmund
Hey gwhitf glad to hear/kind of see you.
I get it.
I bought a couple Panasonics and Olympus 43's.
Put them on some straps and carried them around London.
My wife said why do you do that? You look like a tourist and you don't ever take a picture with them?
She was right, though I love those little olympus cameras, they're so cool but I don't know what to do with them.
_________________________________
I have always had this feeling that since the start of digital we've been fooled around with.
(When camera companies made serious coin) I always had this sick kind of feeling when I bought a new camera that that there was always something better, faster, cheaper they had on the drawing board or beta shelves.
Once we saw the Canon 5d, the Nikon D800 and the Pentax that thought seemed to ring true.
_________________________________
deju Vu
Hey Doug are you sure RED and the motion camera world didn't steal your business model?
Got a note from RED when they were trying to sell the "weapon", pre NAB announcement. It was easy. Upgrade one of my scarlets to a "dragon" sensor for $9,000 then turn that in for the Weapon camera for $9,000 more, then delivery will be, uh, oh, I dunno someday.
Also the $4,000 graphic cards I own for the RED cameras don't work for the weapon so I'll need a couple of the new ones. I didn't bother to respond.
deju Vu 2
Hey Canon video, you shouldn't keep talking to the still guys about how to design and price a camera.
Thursday went to a Canon c300 II demo. I never do these things, but I thought what the heck, I'd love to get a break from these computers so I drove over to Burbank.
Canon guy 1 - Here's the new camera.
Me - Does it autofocus like the $800 70d?
Canon guy 1 - yea does it great.
Me - Can I see?
Result autofocus won't turn on.
Me - what does the viewfinder look like . . . it's not on.
Canon guy 1 - fumbles with the menu for 5 minutes. Uh it doesn't seem to work.
Me - Does it have a touch screen like the 70d?
Canon guy 2 - I don't like touch screens.
Me - You didn't design the camera, so once again does it . . .
Canon guy 1 - You have to understand we're kind of new at motion picture cameras.
Me - Huh?
Canon woman 1 - NBC just bought a bunch of these.
Me - For what. Episodic, news, A cam, B cam?
Canon woman 1 - Don't know.
Me - Back to the camera. Does it shoot a proRes file, or raw and if so how do you process (uh excuse me debayer) the raw?
Canon guy 2 - You can do proRes if you buy a recorder ($3,500 + $900 per media card) and maybe somebody will make software to debayer the raw.
Me - Huh and btw: will the price of this camera start dropping like the 1dc. From $15,000, to $8000, to $6000 (new)?
Canon guy 2 - Hey everything in the digital world changes.
IMO
BC
-
Even with the updated LR and IT2 I am getting on average an 8 second import, perhaps it is my late 2012 macbook pro that is slowing things down?
I just bought this LR plugin and allows me to forgo the IT2 thing.
http://dslrsoftware.com/tethered_shoot_lr6_645z_macosx.php
It works faster and imports raw files in 4 seconds which satisfies 99% of my shooting situations.
For the other 1% of shooting situations, photographing Angelina & Brad with publicists & editors hanging over my shoulder I will rent a phase with a tech.
But I do not see that shooting sneer any time soon (nor do I want to, ben there done that).
MB