Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: eronald on January 24, 2015, 08:44:09 am
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http://www.dpreview.com/articles/3082784638/sports-illustrated-lays-off-last-remaining-staff-photographers
Do the beancounters know something the rest of us don't?
Edmund
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Technology has advanced to the point where everything will be recreated with computer generated graphics.
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Technology has advanced to the point where everything will be recreated with computer generated graphics.
Perhaps? Or could it be the ever growing (out of control) cost of doing business. Pay, Medical, 401K's etc.........you get the idea. Freelance solves all...Maybe?
Nothing new here, just a very large profile example.
Peter
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Agreed with Peter. Thom Hogan hit the nail on the head: Sports Illustrated Lets Remaining Photographers Go (http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/sports-illustrated-lets.html)
As an aside, this topic probably fits better on one of the other boards, perhaps Pro Business Discussion (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?board=48.0) or The Coffee Corner (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?board=33.0).
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Perhaps? Or could it be the ever growing (out of control) cost of doing business. Pay, Medical, 401K's etc.........you get the idea. Freelance solves all...Maybe?
I would think that freelancers also have to have all that (i.e., pay, medical, 401K's etc.) built into their price.
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I would think that freelancers also have to have all that (i.e., pay, medical, 401K's etc.) built into their price.
You would think so. But there is always someone who will shoot for less. SI could probably get people to shoot for free. Exposure and all that.
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You would think so. But there is always someone who will shoot for less. SI could probably get people to shoot for free. Exposure and all that.
I agree, Martin. There is always someone willing to do it cheaper.
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I bet the magazine is soon filled with uncredited Getty's shots. They will be the same images everyone else has and the magazine will become pointless.
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I would think that freelancers also have to have all that (i.e., pay, medical, 401K's etc.) built into their price.
It's a lovely idea but there is a going rate for the work I do and its a question of take it or leave it. I do put the best payers first though and let it be known in subtle ways.
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I would think that freelancers also have to have all that (i.e., pay, medical, 401K's etc.) built into their price.
They do...But that's not the concern of the client. Freelance has always been a take it or leave it deal. Once you accept the job your overhead is your responsibility. No one else cares.
If you pass on an assignment there will be plenty of takers.
Peter
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I do not know, Peter. You seem to think it was a prudent business move, meant to reduce cost. I tend to think it is a desperate move, reflecting a general decline of the printed media.
I used to run a small software consulting company, sending consultants to client sites. Our consultants were typically an order of magnitude MORE expensive than their full-time employees. We also had our sub-contractors (or freelancers) and we paid them MORE than our regular employees. One of the reasons we tend to keep freelancers, although they cost us more, is to be able to ride ups and downs of business demand. Having only full-time staff would hurt us in down times, when we couldn't find enough work for all our employees, yet had to pay them salaries etc. Frankly, taxes had never entered any of our equations. Salaries were our major factor. However, keeping just the number of employees that matches the bottom of the cycle would prevent us to respond to extra demand in boom times. Enter freelancers. They provide that flexibility, even if more expensive.
Back to SI. Getting rid of it's core staff is a desperate move. The type of photography they do is not something you can get from a stock library. If I remember correctly, their photographers often have "runners" that take a memory card during the game and upload it to SI. They also need press passes. It is not like anyone and his mother in law can come to the edge of the field to take photos. It also takes expensive equipment. And SI needs exclusivity. All that is making freelancers MORE expensive for SI.
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I do not know, Peter. You seem to think it was a prudent business move, meant to reduce cost. I tend to think it is a desperate move, reflecting a general decline of the printed media.
I agree with you...But I think it can still be a bottom line issue for them. A "desperate" move for them.
Peter
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I mean, it's generally accepted that Print Media is well on it's way out but man, firing 6 photographers , 6 employees, out of a company that it's main purpose is to publish images and text seems absurd if the main reason for it is to cut costs. Those photographers probably generated a good bit of high quality original content. Now, the magazine, to fill it's editorial hole would need to buy the images on the freelance market where a) yes you can get images for less, or more depending on b) quality, but is much more variable out there and c) Other media might use the same images.
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I mean, it's generally accepted that Print Media is well on it's way out but man, firing 6 photographers , 6 employees, out of a company that it's main purpose is to publish images and text seems absurd if the main reason for it is to cut costs. Those photographers probably generated a good bit of high quality original content. Now, the magazine, to fill it's editorial hole would need to buy the images on the freelance market where a) yes you can get images for less, or more depending on b) quality, but is much more variable out there and c) Other media might use the same images.
may be SI just converted them from W2 to ind. contractors and then nothing can prevent SI to have a contract with them to have exclusive images from SI assignments...
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may be SI just converted them from W2 to ind. contractors and then nothing can prevent SI to have a contract with them to have exclusive images from SI assignments...
Except tax rules that do not allow you to have such control over your contractors, otherwise they'll consider you are fraudulently reclassifying your employees as independent contractors.
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I mean, it's generally accepted that Print Media is well on it's way out--
Print media or not, photography has a huge variety of applications in everything from marketing to web use and design, just because you're not printing the photos in a magazine doesn't mean that you don't need them at all, or that you need to skimp on quality... in fact, with the rise of high-resolution displays, there will need to be a re-evaluation for what previously passed as "web quality" because it's now expected that the average consumer, even if purchasing blind, will get at least a 1080p or 1440p display with full sRGB, as it is inexpensive to do so now.
If SI wants to stand out, why not make the first website designed for 4K and 5K displays in mind?
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Print media or not, photography has a huge variety of applications in everything from marketing to web use and design, just because you're not printing the photos in a magazine doesn't mean that you don't need them at all, or that you need to skimp on quality... in fact, with the rise of high-resolution displays, there will need to be a re-evaluation for what previously passed as "web quality" because it's now expected that the average consumer, even if purchasing blind, will get at least a 1080p or 1440p display with full sRGB, as it is inexpensive to do so now.
If SI wants to stand out, why not make the first website designed for 4K and 5K displays in mind?
Judging by their website it is clear that Si has not transitioned well into the digital media world.
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Judging by their website it is clear that Si has not transitioned well into the digital media world.
Maybe, but Time Warner has.
Time Warner owns HBO, Warner Bros., Tuner Broadcasting, CNN, the CW, TW cable and on and on.
For 2012 income was $28.7B and an adjusted operating income of $6.1B
Sports illustrated barely resonates on their balance sheet and as unfortunate as it is, 6 photographers doesn't even appear.
I doubt it was as much as costs savings as redundancy.
SI is death by a thousand cuts.
After all every photographer is required to stand in the same area, with the same lens same camera and shoot the same action, so from a company standpoint, it's easier to buy the 20 images you want rather than send out a crew and supplemental digital support crew, especially since your only producing old news.
Broad based print specialty magazines are on the wane, with a few exceptions like Vogue and some Conde Naste titles.
But if you enjoy sports, by the time your magazine hits your mailbox you've already seen the story, the images and the recap.
Print in general is not dead, just marginalized. This has been going on forever. Radio marginalized newspapers, TV did the same to Radio and all Print, Computers and now pads and mobile devices have done it to all media.
Today there are two style of viable content. Free user generated that comes in way before any news organization can gather and disseminate it and higher quality longer form content (motion and/or stills) to supplement and in depth story.
Everything in the middle suffers.
Personally I'm not fond of user generated anything because there is no vetting process, no standards, no reason other than I'm there I might as well shoot it, write it and comment on it all for the payback of someone posting "you go guy/girl, great image, wow your amazing".
But what I like doesn't matter. What pays does.
IMO
BC
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Having worked with many of these guys indirectly (and directly, in a few cases) when I did PocketWizard support, I have to say that I'm pretty saddened to hear this. It's not every day you have a team of such assembled talent, and now with them having to go freelance and have SI adjust to the realities of freelance quality variance, I hope that the magazine can retain the quality it had, and the photographers can maintain their level of excellence. They had something pretty unique there and I just don't know if the magazine will be able to maintain their level of quality.
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Sadly, this is a general trend in many industries, not just photography. A few years ago, both the local cable and phone companies got rid 90% of thier service/tech people. What happens now when you need service, these jobs are on long term contract with independent companies. The great irony is, these are the same people still doing the same job that they did before, but because they are now "self employed" or work through another company that subcontracts to the phone and dable companies, they make less money.
Governments do it too. I know people who work at the local jail/prison. Not privatized, but all government jobs. One guy I know has been working there, full time in real hours, for over 20 years as a "temporary worker." In some cases, governments did it first, and big business followed.
I think the bottom line is, not withstanding any financial issues SI may or may not be having, all the new workplace laws, benefits, regulations, etc, etc, are comming at employers from all directions, and having the effeect of forming a toxic enviroment for having staff. I think we are seeing "the straw that breaks the camel's back" in real life in these situations.
sad, and I feel for these people, but I don't have answer myself.
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USA Today Sports has taken over the national sports photography gigs, selling the same 5 images to everyone. It's a solid business model for everyone but the photographer. It saddens me that photography has been turned into a commodity - where original, unique perspectives are not created.
I hope that SI figures out how to do long form storytelling using different photographers - I see it as the only method to keep pulling a paying audience. That and they may want to investigate going to larger photos on their layout, as folks can see plenty of small photos online, but some photos command a larger presence.
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Except tax rules that do not allow you to have such control over your contractors, otherwise they'll consider you are fraudulently reclassifying your employees as independent contractors.
Slobodan, no - tax rules do not allow you to contol the work (for example equipment used, etc), but they allow to own the result of the work (= images)... do not mix things here.
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It saddens me that photography has been turned into a commodity - where original, unique perspectives are not created.
why do you mix creation of "original, unique perspectives" with being a W2 employee ? please by all means go and create... if your creations are worthy then you earn.
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Slobodan, no - tax rules do not allow you to contol the work (for example equipment used, etc), but they allow to own the result of the work (= images)... do not mix things here.
You'd also have to be working exclusively for just that company too.
In the UK, IT peeps often try do the opposite. They say they are freelancers/limited companies to gain tax advantages, but in reality only work full time for one company
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why do you mix creation of "original, unique perspectives" with being a W2 employee ? please by all means go and create... if your creations are worthy then you earn.
Short version? Because access is tightly controlled in professional sporting events, and having the backing of a larger news org like SI takes care of access one otherwise won't get.
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Slobodan, no - tax rules do not allow you to contol the work (for example equipment used, etc), but they allow to own the result of the work (= images)... do not mix things here.
The determination that IRS does is a complex one and depends on at least three major categories of factors, the composition of which also varies from case to case. Exclusivity would be simply one of the factors. It also depends how that exclusivity is formulated. If the contract says, for instance "Go there and there and shoot the event exclusively for SI," than it stands a higher chance (but not necessarily) to be classified as "employee." If it says "We need images from such and such event, and you are free to submit your images to others as well, but if you do submit them to us, we want exclusive rights to use them," than it is more likely (but not necessarily) to be considered as independent contractor.
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This story is really more about the recent spit of the parent company Time Warner.
Time inc is now operating its publishing business on its own, concessions have to be made.
It's that simple.
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This story is really more about the recent spit of the parent company Time Warner.
Time inc is now operating its publishing business on its own, concessions have to be made.
It's that simple.
If their main trade is selling images to the public - why are they throwing out *all* photographers?
Staff reductions would make sense, but firing everybody? It just doesn't make sense to me.
Edmund
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There's a word in LA (and other cities, I gather) for many workers hired by entertainment and other companies: perma-lancers. Companies hire on permanent staff under the guise of being just temporary positions, but without the obligation of providing benefits, and with the understanding that during a slowdown in business, you're not fired – just let go until business picks up again. I know people who've been perm-lancing for years.
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If the contract says, for instance "Go there and there and shoot the event exclusively for SI," than it stands a higher chance (but not necessarily) to be classified as "employee."
no it doesn't, Slobodan... like it does not make somebody fixing your roof your employee if you direct the dude to go to a specific location and fix specific roof (that roof will belong to you, provided that you pay and they will be no liens then).
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no it doesn't, Slobodan... like it does not make somebody fixing your roof your employee if you direct the dude to go to a specific location and fix specific roof (that roof will belong to you, provided that you pay and they will be no liens then).
Wrong example, AlterEgo. To make it similar, let's say that I have 100 roofs around town (all belong to me) and I keep sending the same contractor to repair it, month after month, year after year, specifically saying that he has to do it exclusively for me, i.e., that he can not engage in roof repair for anyone else. That example stands a higher chance (but not necessarily) to be classified as "employee." Please note that the use of "higher chance" and "not necessarily," as I already explained that IRS determination depends on a multitude of factors.
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What if a real estate company uses you exclusively to photograph 100 houses for sale like real estate owner who hires a roof company exclusively to service 100 roofs of his buildings. As long as you;re providing your own tools or cameras, own schedule, you'd be considered an independent contractor even of you're shooting exclusively for that agent or hiring a roof repair company. Of course, if SI tries to limit your work to only themselves, something they won't do, then there could be a problem. I'm sure SI will draw up contracts very carefully to make sure the IRS cannot interpret independent contractors as employees.
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Wrong example, AlterEgo. To make it similar, let's say that I have 100 roofs around town (all belong to me) and I keep sending the same contractor to repair it, month after month, year after year, specifically saying that he has to do it exclusively for me, i.e., that he can not engage in roof repair for anyone else.
you mix the ownership of results (photos) from a specific assignment or several w/ prohibiting contractor to work elsewhere/for anybody else on different assignments, Slobodan... as prev. poster noted SI is not some dude w/o clue how to spell things in their paperwork... they can own the results (photos) when they contract a photog to cover a specific event, but they do not "hire" him exclusively forever prohibiting him to cover __other__ events for __other__ clients (for example).
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... SI is not some dude w/o clue how to spell things in their paperwork... they can own the results (photos) when they contract a photog to cover a specific event, but they do not "hire" him exclusively forever prohibiting him to cover __other__ events for __other__ clients (for example).
Which is what I said in post #25 above:
It also depends how that exclusivity is formulated.
As for "smartness" of SI in contract formulating, that remains to be seen. There are many, many companies that tried to outsmart IRS or SEC, not always successfully (remember Enron?). It is like IRS audit of your tax returns. You might cheat on your tax returns for years and never get audited and caught, or you might do it once and get immediately caught.
The first red flag is if the six are fired and immediately hired back next day as contractors. Yes, it happens in many other cases, and yes many companies might get away with it for years, just like you can cheat on your tax return and not get caught for years. However, companies like SI are also highly visible.
However, let's assume that the new SI contract is careful about exclusivity. At some point, some or all) of the original six will get a different gig and gradually drift away. Which will leave SI to compete for images in the open market. As a consequence, SI will lose the edge they had in the past, i.e., well trained and motivated team, the rest could only look up to. They were successful as they had the best equipment, best access, best photographers, resulting in unique shots. I am not a sport fan, but I am assuming that is the reason (uniqueness and high quality) that attracted their readers. Once they start using crowd-sourced shots, or sharing shots from Getty Images etc., that fans can see everywhere else, their competitive edge is lost.
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Some people do not even want to pay for cheap stock images. It's the attitude that hey if it's online its free. These people even left the watermark and everything. They didn't care.
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Some people do not even want to pay for cheap stock images. It's the attitude that hey if it's online its free. These people even left the watermark and everything. They didn't care.
Nice!!!!!
Peter
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So y'all assume that the fired individuals have simply been moved into a more distant orbit around the mothership?
Edmund
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some point, some or all) of the original six will get a different gig and gradually drift away.
and some other well trained individuals will drift closer... there are so many clients and so many photogs when you set a certain bar what the pictures shall be - the system will find the balance.
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As for "smartness" of SI in contract formulating, that remains to be seen. There are many, many companies that tried to outsmart IRS or SEC, not always successfully (remember Enron?).
what SEC and Enron has to do with replacing W2s with subcontractors ? and not even simple 1099s using their SSN#, but I'd assume fully incorporated folks
The first red flag is if the six are fired and immediately hired back next day as contractors.
who says next day ? and note - I doubt they will do simple 1099...
PS: in our company (as employer) we have a rule - we switch W2 to 1099/C2C or vice versa (if they want - we don't care for as long as the cost to us is the same) only once new years starts (Dec 31/Jan1) __or__ on a different assignment (different client of ours/different physical location) - so that is how SI probably did it to avoid your "next day" issue ... doing business since 1986 and we are public company... no issues with IRS.... our max employment was ~2000 people around 1998/1999 - so were not that small for IRS not to notice us.
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Perhaps? Or could it be the ever growing (out of control) cost of doing business. Pay, Medical, 401K's etc.........you get the idea. Freelance solves all...Maybe?
Nothing new here, just a very large profile example.
Peter
That is the trend. USPS only hires part timers for years now. No benefits. You have a zillion freelancers pushing the button.
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USA Today Sports has taken over the national sports photography gigs, selling the same 5 images to everyone. It's a solid business model for everyone but the photographer. It saddens me that photography has been turned into a commodity - where original, unique perspectives are not created.
I hope that SI figures out how to do long form storytelling using different photographers - I see it as the only method to keep pulling a paying audience. That and they may want to investigate going to larger photos on their layout, as folks can see plenty of small photos online, but some photos command a larger presence.
Yes it is sad, but that is how it is with digital. World is polluted with photos.
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what SEC and Enron has to do with replacing W2s with subcontractors ?...
Nothing, indeed. But it has everything to do with "companies trying to outsmart IRS or SEC."
However, since you apparently read my posts only to find a word or sentence to quibble with, I let you have the last word.
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That is the trend. USPS only hires part timers for years now...
As I repeatedly said, many companies are trying that. Some succeed for years. Some not. There are whole web sites, blogs, lawyer practices, etc. devoted to contractor vs. employee issue. Here is a quote from one of those:
FedEx Hit with Avalanche of Independent Contractor Misclassification Rulings (http://independentcontractorcompliance.com/2014/10/06/fedex-hit-with-avalanche-of-independent-contractor-misclassification-rulings/)
In the past week, the Supreme Court of Kansas and the National Labor Relations Board have issued lengthy, comprehensive opinions finding that FedEx misclassified its Home Delivery and Ground Division drivers as independent contractors as a matter of law. Those two decisions, which dealt with drivers in Kansas and Connecticut, come only a month after the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit reached the same conclusion under California and Oregon law. All three decisions essentially conclude what the Kansas court found: “FedEx has established an employment relationship with its delivery drivers but dressed that relationship in independent contractor clothing.”
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Wrong example, AlterEgo. To make it similar, let's say that I have 100 roofs around town (all belong to me) and I keep sending the same contractor to repair it, month after month, year after year, specifically saying that he has to do it exclusively for me, i.e., that he can not engage in roof repair for anyone else. That example stands a higher chance (but not necessarily) to be classified as "employee." Please note that the use of "higher chance" and "not necessarily," as I already explained that IRS determination depends on a multitude of factors.
just to clarify:
Employee vs Independent Contractor
Degree of control over how work is performed Performs work, under the direction and control of their employer, on an ongoing basis.
Independent Contractor Has a high level of control in how the work is done.
Hours of work Generally works standard or set hours (note: a casual employee's hours may vary from week to week).
Independent Contractor Under agreement, decides what hours to work to complete the specific task.
Expectation of work Usually has an ongoing expectation of work (note: some employees may be engaged for a specific task or specific period).
Independent Contractor Usually engaged for a specific task.
Risk Bears no financial risk (this is the responsibility of their employer).
Independent Contractor Bears the risk for making a profit or loss on each task.
Independent Contractor Usually bears responsibility and liability for poor work or injury sustained while performing the task. As such, contractors generally have their own insurance policy.
Superannuation Entitled to have superannuation contributions paid into a nominated superannuation fund by their employer.
Independent Contractor Pays their own superannuation (note: in some circumstances independent contractors may be entitled to be paid superannuation contributions).
Tools and equipment Tools and equipment are generally provided by the employer, or a tool allowance is provided.
Independent Contractor Uses their own tools and equipment (note: alternative arrangements may be made within a contract for services).
Tax Has income tax deducted by their employer.
Independent Contractor Pays their own tax / GST / VAT
Method of payment Paid regularly (for example, weekly/fortnightly/monthly).
Independent Contractor submits an invoice for work completed or is paid at the end of the contract or project.
Leave Entitled to receive paid leave (for example, annual leave, personal/carers' leave, long service leave) or receive a loading in lieu of leave entitlements in the case of casual employees.
Independent Contractor Does not receive paid leave.