Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: torger on December 12, 2014, 07:57:21 am
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I just became a Hasselblad owner. The H4D-50 is on its way to me and since I shoot Linhof Techno I need an external battery (the H4D-50 don't support the new battery adapter unfortunately).
I'll buy the Silvestri 1800mAh battery and cable Code 7010K and 7012K which is about $200 which I know works and is recommended by Hasselblad, unless someone here has a better suggestion :). I know I've heard something about "quantum" but I don't really find a matching product, seems to have changed their product line or I'm searching in the wrong place.
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My memory is short, I was involved in this discussion over at GetDPI a few months ago:
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-digital-backs/52131-help-hasselblad-h4d-50-external-power-solution.html
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Quantum Batteries are a great product with good company support too. What's great is that with the correct adapter you can basically use just about any of their batteries interchangeably---which can be important if size/weight is a premium to you. Turbo sc is less than a pound---what a huge difference to the old original Turbo!
ken
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Thanks for the tip! It's a pretty expensive product, but lots of power so it seems reasonable. I'll see. I think I'll go for the smaller Silvestri but I have problems reaching the companies selling those things today, and I'm just going to hate having a new camera early next week which I can't use because I don't have a battery at hand...
I just love web shops with stock status, but it's not that big in the world of MF digital :-)
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You might find this thread useful: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=53070.0 (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=53070.0) although Quantum do not make the Turbo anymore and I think the SV16 cable is also discontinued. If you get the Leaf DC-FW800 adapter you can get the Silvestri battery to work with it I'm sure...
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Torger,
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the H4D-50 once you have had a chance to play with it a bit.
Best,
Foster
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I will report ☺. I got an offer I could not refuse from a photographer that has switched to Pentax 645Z. I will keep my trusty Aptus in parallel until I know if the blad is for me. I know the files will please me, but I don't know about the user interface, if having an external battery and one more cable will drive me crazy etc.
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For external battery needs when ever I used an H4D or H3D camera, I used a chea pchinese lithium battery with a firewire to DC 12 volt adapter. Works perfect. I use it when I mount my back to my fuji gx or rz67.
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Torger.
Congratulations on the Hasselbkad 50MP. Looking forward to some shifting examples.
Paul
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I went for the Silvestri, because of its availability and that it's relatively small and light. I rather have two smaller batteries than one big so I can have one at home charging, or have a (warm-kept) backup in the field.
Almost the exact same product can be bought off ebay for like $30 from china, but you never now what type of battery quality you get then, and delivery time can be looong. My experience with such products is that some are good and some are not so good and you never know in advance. As I work in cold temperatures sometimes I need good quality of the battery.
Concerning DC to firewire 800 cable I got the Silvestri too (which looks kind of home-made and unnecessarily thick and inflexible), because of immediate availability, but I will probably change that later to a Leaf DC-FW800 L-plug (if I can get hold of one) sitting in the back and a flexible thin DC-to-DC cable (maybe coiled) for the battery. I don't like the idea of having a thick inflexible excessively long cable hanging around in limb-catching loops :-).
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Just adding to what I said in the get dpi post where I mentioned my friend. He went ahead and got the silvestri battery. It was a very cheaply made looking product. It has a cheap plastic feel to it. The quantum battery is built like a tank and cased in a metal housing. He brought the Silvestri battery to the States on a 3 week trip and it stopped working after his first time using it. He wasn't impressed!
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Just adding to what I said in the get dpi post where I mentioned my friend. He went ahead and got the silvestri battery. It was a very cheaply made looking product. It has a cheap plastic feel to it. The quantum battery is built like a tank and cased in a metal housing. He brought the Silvestri battery to the States on a 3 week trip and he stopped working after his first time using it. He wasn't impressed!
I guess it's actually almost the same as this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-3800mah-5V-USB-5800mah-DC-Rechargeable-Li-ion-Battery-Pack-with-UK-charger-/121461451061?pt=UK_CCTV&hash=item1c47aaa935
ie it's a china product with a hefty markup. Silvestri is a tiny company, I doubt they have had that much involvement in product development of the battery. I hoped that they would have put effort in selecting a good design though and have some own quality control, but maybe not :-\. But anyway, I get it in my hand now (oh well, later this week, it's on its way). Hopefully I get a good copy, I will be disappointed if it fails due to poor quality control, but then complain and get a new one. I've become quite used to poor quality control in the medium format world, so I don't have that high expectations ;).
I don't doubt the quantum turbo sc product is great, but 440 grams and $400 dollars which becomes $600 here in Sweden with customs/VAT is on the high side, especially since I want two... my second battery may actually become one of those ebay batteries.
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Check this item:
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MEPMPWR12VF8/
Regards
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Thanks for the tip. Buying outside EU is a bit messy for me (located in Sweden) but as I have a cable to live with at first I could order and wait.
I think I'd like even better to use this:
(http://static.bhphoto.com/images/images345x345/725098.jpg)
with something this:
(http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/20127/China_DC_Coiled_Cable20127111449089.jpg)
(with dc plug in other end too). If I drop the battery it will pull the plug straight out.
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Check this item:
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MEPMPWR12VF8/
Regards
Arca is that the same connection (on the quantum end) as the obsolete quantum cable. If it is you will make someone very happy. :D
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Check this item:
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MEPMPWR12VF8/
Regards
Almost have to buy it to see if it matches up with the H batteries charging port - should flow both ways right?
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Just got the camera, but also the classical problem -- the back does not fit onto the H-mount adapter plate. It's not the first time I've had this issue (last time it was a V-mount adapter plate). What's wrong with the tech cam makers charging hundreds of dollars for an adapter plate which still does not have sufficient precision to actually fit?
Sigh... let's see if this can be solved with some mild force...
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Just got the camera, but also the classical problem -- the back does not fit onto the H-mount adapter plate. It's not the first time I've had this issue (last time it was a V-mount adapter plate). What's wrong with the tech cam makers charging hundreds of dollars for an adapter plate which still does not have sufficient precision to actually fit?
Sigh... let's see if this can be solved with some mild force...
grrrrrrr
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As reported in another thread I solved the adapter plate problem. I've got the Silvestri battery and it was as expected a cheap China product (you can buy off Ebay) with 6x markup, but what I was hoping for, some added quality assurance for that markup, was not there. The charging won't work properly so the battery is drained in 20 minutes. I don't know if it's the charger or if it's the battery.
Anyway, I cannot come to any other conclusion than that I would not recommend the Silvestri battery, just as Enda. As they don't seem to add any quality assurance one could just as well order directly from China for 1/6th of the cost and hope for the best.
Or if you want something that just works buy a more expensive flash power battery like the Quantum Turbo SC.
I haven't decided yet what I will do, because I like the form factor of the Silvestri. First I will complain.
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That's a real shame to hear about the Silvestri battery. I still have dreams where I buy an H4D-50 instead of the new CFV-50c back – as I'd like to use an auto-focus SLR body occasionally – for use with my Techno, but the external power problem you're having certainly gives me pause for thought.
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That's a real shame to hear about the Silvestri battery. I still have dreams where I buy an H4D-50 instead of the new CFV-50c back – as I'd like to use an auto-focus SLR body occasionally – for use with my Techno, but the external power problem you're having certainly gives me pause for thought.
I don't think it's too much of a worry. A bit boring that I don't have a working untethered solution right now as I hoped to shoot some under my Christmas holiday. There are batteries out there that work, had I listened to the recommendations in this thread I would have had it :-). I'm probably going to give Silvestri another chance though, and I'm using an excellent dealer (Linhof Studio) so it will be resolved in one way or another.
I've made some brief tests of the H4D-50 screen by the way and I think it's good enough for focus check. It's certainly not as good as it could have been (there's an odd subpixel layout so pixels are not square which make image sharpness harder to judge), but good enough to reassure that an f/11 shot is adequately focused. I'll know more when I've used it in the field.
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Why messing around with these options instead of getting an Imagebank II for your H4D50? The H4D60 can use (finally) the clip-on solution (not the Imagebank II) but AFAIK the H4D50 can use the Imagebank II. Procentre has them for sale second hand for around 300GBP. A bit more expensive than the cheap alternatives but a much nicer solution. I used to own an Imagebank II and these things are quite small and handy (sold mine after I got the H4D60).
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Imagebank II's currently on eBay are ~$900 to $1,200 USD, with an old model for the Ixpress 16/22 at $350 and climbing. Battery technology to put a consistent current out over firewire 800 isn't new, special, or expensive, so why jack everyone around.
-Joe
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If you use the ImageBank II, can you also save images to the CF card? If not, I'd be terrified using one as they don't sell them new anymore, do they?
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No, you cannot.
The Imagebank II has a 2.5" HDD in it that you can replace (with an SSD for instance) with some work if you would like. I have used both Imagebank I as well as Imagebank II, these things are much more reliable and sturdy than one might expect. Having said that, any electronic piece of equipment can fail however chances are the other pieces in this chain will probably go much sooner. Instead of screwing around with other solutions I would go the IB route without thinking twice (heck, I have worked with Ixpress and imagebanks for years).
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Imagebank II's currently on eBay are ~$900 to $1,200 USD, with an old model for the Ixpress 16/22 at $350 and climbing. Battery technology to put a consistent current out over firewire 800 isn't new, special, or expensive, so why jack everyone around.
-Joe
Procentre has (at least) one for 295GBP at this moment for sale. Which is about half of the price you mention.
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Didn't know you could replace the HDD unit. If one wanted to replace it with a SSD, is that a straight forward swap?
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Why messing around with these options instead of getting an Imagebank II for your H4D50? The H4D60 can use (finally) the clip-on solution (not the Imagebank II) but AFAIK the H4D50 can use the Imagebank II. Procentre has them for sale second hand for around 300GBP. A bit more expensive than the cheap alternatives but a much nicer solution. I used to own an Imagebank II and these things are quite small and handy (sold mine after I got the H4D60).
When I got my Hasselblad system an image bank was part of the system. The first one I got just didn't work from the Fargo. The second one I got was used for the first time on an architectural shoot for a client. I spent about 12 hours on a beautiful days shooting. ALL the images on the imagebank were corrupted and lost. The cost to recover the images meant I had to go to my client looking like an amateur and had to get into to shoot the entire project again. Never have and never will again use that piece of overpriced crap!
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A quick report;
I got a cheap ebay battery of the same type as the Silvestri:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-3800mah-5V-USB-5800mah-DC-Rechargeable-Li-ion-Battery-Pack-with-EU-charger-/171631199531
although not the exact same model the charger looks exactly the same etc, and the finish is about as bad, this is a cheap china product for sure. It's surely less messy to just get that Quantum Turbo SC quality product, but I like this smaller 185 gram package better in terms of size.
Anyway I did a test run inside and it keeps the back running for almost a full five hours. To compare against something my old Aptus 75 back runs for 2 hours with a new Leaf-branded 100 gram battery, so more than twice the time for less than twice the weight seems like ok. The Aptus probably draws a bit more power though due to its fan, but the Hassy surely draws power too, as it becomes rather warm when kept on for lengthy times.
I now think I know why the Silvestri battery I got was so bad, my ebay battery manual clearly states that the battery cannot be left unused for over a year as the capacity will then drop, and my Silvestri battery date sticker was June 2011 and it has probably not seen a charger since. No wonder it's down at 30-40 minutes capacity. My ebay battery date sticker is at November 2014, a bit more recent...
If getting this type of battery I would surely recommend that you test its capacity before getting out in the field. If you get a good copy it seems to be a perfectly okay product despite its rough edges, and this version has an USB port so you can load your mobile phone too, and a battery life indicator which is great as you don't get it on the back.
I'll report back when I've actually used it out in the field for a while. It's not going to well to get out in the field for me though, only have time in daylight during weekends, and this weekend other things is happening during the days... but in a month or two...! :-)
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First day out today. I used the ebay battery and the silvestri firewire cable and silvestri bag and hanger, so you hang the battery in the tripod hook.
Conclusion: I really don't like to have one extra ting to mess around with when setting up the camera, especially now in the winter when shooting is already more difficult with the low temperatures, snow shoes on my feet, harder to move the tripod around etc. The Silvestri cable is super-stiff and it gets worse in -13C (8F) like it was today. It easily pops out from the battery when handling it, which perhaps is good for safety but frustrating when you're in a hurry setting up things. I also have a neck pouch with the loupe, dof table, lcc card etc, and having another pouch with the battery and one more cable attachment just becomes a little bit too much.
Now when home again I've looked at making a custom solution where I attach velcro to the battery and to the base plate of the back, ie I attach the battery at the same position as it sits on my Leaf Aptus back. I made a quick test with tape and it seems to work out fine, despite the larger battery it will be no trouble mounting the back both in landscape and portrait position. I also need to make a custom very short cable, but that should not be rocket science. I've ordered Leaf's L-plug so maybe I'll use that as inbetweener and only make a short DC to DC cable which should be easier to find parts and solder.
This way I don't need to care about the battery just as before, up with the camera, up with the sliding back, attach the synch cable to the lens - shoot.
I'll post an image when I have something working.
(The ebay battery itself worked just fine, I wasn't out too long though so really no tough challenge for that.)
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Thanks for the update, I look forward to hearing how you get on with your experiment.
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Here's my hack! I bought a Duotec band (a form of hook-and-loop, stiffer), Leaf firewire L-plug and then the ebay battery discussed above. The DC-to-DC cable came with the ebay battery, here I've been lazy and not shortened it just folded it up. I was expecting the Leaf plug to point down rather than up, but as Hassy has the port on the opposite side as Leaf (I think) it pointed up, but I guess it's sort of better otherwise it would have been in the way of the battery power button.
The Duotec band is very strong, so I had to use very narrow strips to not have it sit too tight. Not too professional looking mounting, but it works. The battery had a sticker at the point I put one of the strips, you could remove it and put the strip against the plastic directly but as the battery weighs only 180 grams and it was a well-fastened plastic label I let it be.
As seen in the attached picture you can mount the back in both horizontal and vertical orientation, and the sliding back fits down into my backpack as before.
Haven't used it in the field yet, but should work fine. You don't need to worry about the Duotec glue either, you will be able to remove the strips from the back without leaving marks.
So now you don't need to spend $20k extra to get a new H5D-50 with battery adapter, when you can get a second hand H4D-50 and, an ebay battery and a strip of Duotec instead! The battery holds power for almost five hours, so it seems fine.
The weather proofing is obviously not great, but I can live with that, and with hacks you could improve that aspect too of course.