Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: wagabundo on November 11, 2014, 11:46:26 am
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I'm one step away from buying 645DF. (I'm newbie in MF).
Could you advice me which body seems to be more durable (lenses as well) ? Phase One 645DF or Hasselblad H3DII-39 ?
I know that both don't have sealings, and it's more common to use them in studio, than outdoor, but I have to choose.
My needs:
- strobes (645z have low flash sync speed, 1/125 sec :/)
- outdoor (travel photography, small dust is common)
- big sensor (645Z have only 44x33)
thx
Paul
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I'm one step away from buying 645DF. (I'm newbie in MF).
Could you advice me which body seems to be more durable (lenses as well) ? Phase One 645DF or Hasselblad H3DII-39 ?
I know that both don't have sealings, and it's more common to use them in studio, than outdoor, but I have to choose.
My needs:
- strobes (645z have low flash sync speed, 1/125 sec :/)
- outdoor (travel photography, small dust is common)
- big sensor (645Z have only 44x33)
thx
Paul
DF or DF+?
Notably the flash sync for LS lenses on a DF+ is 1/1600th, and the back (the most expensive part) is made to handle crazy abuse:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytrsdSR_67Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOemv9F_Ahw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J4BErvU-kg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0SljqdzCNQ
Also the DF and DF+ are still "current" meaning service, support, and repairs are provided without limitation.
Probably the least expensive way into a DF+ at this point is with the purchase of a Leaf Credo 40 bundle promo (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/mamiya-credo-special-promo). For $13,995 you get a great, modern, high res, fast shooting back, an LS lens sycning at 1/1600th, and a DF+ body. That's $2500 for the body and lens.
I'll leave it to end users to report on their reliability findings. Since I'm biased my answer between H and DF+ wouldn't mean much. I can say we found the DF to be of only okay reliability, especially after high shutter counts, while the DF+ on current firmware we have found to be quite reliable. Good thing too, since we have a half dozen in rental at any given time!
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I would like to have 645DF+.. it's more reliable, but I was thinking about 645DF (without plus) because my budget limits.
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What is the specified operating range? Zero to 40C?
Best regards
Erik
DF or DF+?
Notably the flash sync for LS lenses on a DF+ is 1/1600th, and the back (the most expensive part) is made to handle crazy abuse:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytrsdSR_67Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOemv9F_Ahw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J4BErvU-kg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0SljqdzCNQ
Also the DF and DF+ are still "current" meaning service, support, and repairs are provided without limitation.
Probably the least expensive way into a DF+ at this point is with the purchase of a Leaf Credo 40 bundle promo (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/mamiya-credo-special-promo). For $13,995 you get a great, modern, high res, fast shooting back, an LS lens sycning at 1/1600th, and a DF+ body. That's $2500 for the body and lens.
I'll leave it to end users to report on their reliability findings. Since I'm biased my answer between H and DF+ wouldn't mean much. I can say we found the DF to be of only okay reliability, especially after high shutter counts, while the DF+ on current firmware we have found to be quite reliable. Good thing too, since we have a half dozen in rental at any given time!
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Does the DF support the flash at 1/1600 with LS lenses. I thought it did.
Paul
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Hi,
Regarding reliability, you need to be aware of a few things:
- Some Hasselblad backs,
your option amongst them, are no longer be able to repair. Due to component shortage. - One frequent poster here has spent like 3000€ and 9 months on Leaf back slightly outside 0-40C environmental conditions. His dealer jus cost him money. All dealers are not created equal, Doug at DT seem to a very good guy and that also applies to Steve Hendrix at CI. Be careful with your choice of dealer!
- Repairs seem to be expensive and frequent. My P45+ works well, this far, but some good posters on these threads have indicated that backs can be quite problematic. To be more specific, one of the posters I trust pretty much had repairs on all backs he had. Send me a PM if you need a reference.
- I would suggest you find a good dealer and buy with a decent maintenance contract, which may be called value added warranty.
I may also add that my opinion may be that most photographers may be better off with a really good full frame 135 camera and a couple of really good lenses.
Best regards
Erik
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Strobes or Speedlights? Durability isn't a strong suit for either platform - the Phase backs are super strong (there's a video of a car being held up by 4 of them) but neither body would be considered durable - (DF+ is a big improvement).
You say you want a big sensor - but why isn't clear. Big CCD sensors require tripods (unless you Sensor+ for higher ISOs) when dealing with dark places. Will this be possible with where you are going?
Where does weight play into your requirements? The 645 lenses, either Mamiya or Pentax are a lot lighter than the HC lenses.
Due to working within a budget, how hurt will you be if the body fails you? Is there room for a second DF body? Ditto the H3 body.
I treat my H4D like a dslr and take it everywhere. The moment anything drips it's back in it's bag. You discount the Z really quickly, but everything in MF is about trade-offs.
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Repairs seem to be expensive and frequent. My P45+ works well, this far, but some good posters on these threads have indicated that backs can be quite problematic. To be more specific, one of the posters I trust pretty much had repairs on all backs he had. Send me a PM if you need a reference.
That's absolutely untrue. The median number of service calls (calibration, repair, maintenance) for a back we sell is zero.
The poster you're referring to had several *calibrations* done not several "repairs". He's especially picky (well within his rights with expensive gear!) and had especially bad luck - a bad combo.
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Does the DF support the flash at 1/1600 with LS lenses. I thought it did.
DF and DF+ both sync at 1/1600 with most LS lenses. The zooms and 240LS sync at 1/1000th.
Both also provide focal plane shutter up to 1/4000th (flash sync limited to 1/125th) for any lens.
I was distinguishing between that and the H series lenses which are all limited to 1/800th.
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FWIW, the OP is in Poland
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Hi Doug,
He expects his stuff to work, is that to much to ask?
I am quite happy with my back. But very clearly several person had issues with theirs. Edmund, quite clearly. Anders Torger had a lot of problems and a lot of those problems have been caused by bad dealers.
If you spend 20k or so I would guess that you would expect the stuff to work according to specifications. Now, in Anders Torger's case the specifications were the problem. Environmental specifications for the Leaf back were 0-40C. Anders had the "E-box" replaced at a cost of 3000€ (around 4k) and had a warranty on that repair, but it was not accepted until he could prove an error at +1 C. That was inside the stated operating range, and he got a warranty repair after something like nine months. I checked Phase One web site, and environmental specifications are still 0 to 40C. Well, it is pretty standard for home electronics. But, you know, if you are shooting winter Olympics, and you Canon breaks down I don't think CPS will say, sorry, our cameras are not expected to work outside 0-40C!
Let's put it this way. I was shooting Minolta and now Sony cameras since 1970. I have shot those cameras under artic conditions and had them soaking wet after shooting in skyfalls, I was pouring water out of those camera and they still worked. Pleas not that those were not old generation mechanical cameras but first generation AF systems, Minolta 9000.
In those 44 years I had something like three repairs, at the total cost of 1800 SEK, about 240 $US. I guess I was lucky. The only repairs I had paid for was replacement of bayonet on a 80-200/2.8 zoom lens. The other two were warranty, malfunction on a Minolta XD7 and macro switch malfunction on a Konica-Minolta A2.
I have owned something like 15 Minolta/Konica Minolta/Sony cameras, 40 lenses and a Pentax 67 kit with five lenses.
Quite obviously I have been lucky, but I am nevertheless quite impressed by the durability of affordable japanese equipment.
Best regards
Erik
Ps. One of my friends is a Canon shooter. He bought an EOS in the US, and got a problem when he got home. Warranty was a problem. He was not a CPS member, but Canon said that he fulfiled the requirements, so he applied for CPS membership and his camera was repaired for 40$, (240 SEK). Shooting Japanese stuff seems to be a different world!
Pss. In Sweden we have a proverb, så wind och skörda storm. Why do you do that?!
That's absolutely untrue. The median number of service calls (calibration, repair, maintenance) for a back we sell is zero.
The poster you're referring to had several *calibrations* done not several "repairs". He's especially picky (well within his rights with expensive gear!) and had especially bad luck - a bad combo.
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Shooting Canon stuff is a different world. Try to get something repaired through NPS, even if you own $30k of their stuff...IF they respond to e-mail...but that's another thread entirely.
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Some Hasselblad backs, your option amongst them, are no longer be able to repair. Due to component shortage.
Some Hasselblad backs, but not the H3DII-39.
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Hi,
NPS would not serve Canon stuff. It is Nikon. My friend had a problem with his foreign imported D40 and was promptly helped by CPS at minimal cost (40 $US). But, same friend had an issue with a G-series Canon and was denied repair because they said it has bee subject to drop impact. But he had also a 24-105/4 that needed repair after 9 years of service, but he got it at very low cost (100$ or so, I guess), below 200$ for sure.
I actually have a Sony 24-70/2.8 that had a hard drop and that I will send to service rather soon. It works well, but it is clearly something loose inside.So I will find out more about repair costs soon.
I can also mention that I had a failure on my Hasselblad Zeiss Planar 120/4 lens. Aperture was not working, repair was about 130$, so repairs don't need to be expensive. Lens Rental has good statistics on repairs, as they handle something like 30000 lenses. Lenses fail more often than bodies and costs are normally reasonable.
LensRentals data is published here: http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/08/lensrentals-repair-data-2012-2013
Best regards
Erik
Shooting Canon stuff is a different world. Try to get something repaired through NPS, even if you own $30k of their stuff...IF they respond to e-mail...but that's another thread entirely.
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I didn't imply that they would (did it sound that way?) I'm just saying the service CPS provides kicks NPS's ass by a long shot.
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Thanks! Good info!
Which are the backs that are no longer repaired?
Best regards
Erik
Some Hasselblad backs, but not the H3DII-39.
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Hi,
My bad! Sorry!
Best regards
Erik
I didn't imply that they would (did it sound that way?) I'm just saying the service CPS provides kicks NPS's ass by a long shot.
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For what it's worth, I have had good experience with CPS (and heard mostly good reports from others and not the case with Nikon).
When it comes to which camera is more reliable - an H body or a Mamiya/Phase body, I do not believe it is possible for you or anyone else to really say, in critically accurate terms, no matter what is posted here. Meaning, even the highest volume dealers, including CI, will have a good sense of it, but even then, there are so many variables that unless you are a high volume shooter, choosing an H body or a Mamiya/Phase body based on the expected durability will not provide a clear advantage for either.
Are they reliable? This question does not provide the basis for an objective measurement. For someone who has never needed a repair, they are very, very reliable! For someone who needed a repair within 4 months after purchase on their 3rd outing with the camera, they are not very reliable at all. For someone shooting high volume who suffers a failure 18 months after purchase, the camera might not be considered unreliable, but they would probably wish it was more reliable.
These are electronic devices with moving parts inside them - they are often bound to fail at some point, some sooner than later. Even the most reliable automobile, while it may go for hundreds of thousands of miles, for some, they have a failure within the first year. These cameras are reliable enough - otherwise, they would not be selling, I understand there are exceptions, and certain cases. But you'll mostly hear of the failures, and you'll never really hear from the others who have not had a problem. Certainly anyone who suffers a failure would like them to be more reliable. But to your pertinent question - which is more reliable, I don't think there is an answer one way or the other and it would not be my reason for choosing one of the other.
When it comes to the digital backs, I would state that they are more reliable than the cameras (or the lenses/shutters) in either case. Although don't believe you cannot suffer a failure there - I would certainly state that yes, we have digital backs, both old and new, that require repair. But a significantly smaller percentage than the cameras/lenses. Generally, it is quite common that a digital back captures x00,000 actuations without ever needing any service or repair whatsoever.
Your camera and lenses are what is most likely going to need the servicing and repairs, but between the two systems, I don't see a difference in terms of the likelihood of these events.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Which are the backs that are no longer repaired?
CFH-22, CFH-39
CF-22, CF-22MS, CF-39, CF-39MS
H2D-22, H2D-39, H3D-22, H3D-39
31 mpix models can still be repaired, H3DII models can still be repaired, all H cameras (cameras - not backs) can still be repaired, for the backs for which full service has been discontinued, some limited repairs are still available
Source: http://hasselbladbron.com/index.php?option=com_easyblog&view=entry&id=59&Itemid=128 (http://hasselbladbron.com/index.php?option=com_easyblog&view=entry&id=59&Itemid=128)
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Thanks Steve,
I hope your trip to the Alp(a)s!
Yes, I feel this is good info. Electronics are normally very reliable, that is mechanical parts that wear down. I also get the impression that Phase One backs are very reliable. But also that repairs can be very expensive. I also got the impression that you need to go trough a dealer for repairs, so I would suggest that you can try to find a decent dealer.
To the OP: I bought my back from Mr. Rib. He is living in Poland and has been a pleasure to make business with. He also has a P45+ kit for sale at around 6000€, if I recall correctly.
If I would relate my own experience, I am quite happy with my Hasselblad 555/ELD P45+ combination, but focusing is really critical. My back works well. I don't see a great advantage in image quality over my Sonys, but the 39MP vs 24MP resolution is clearly there. That advantage is, in my view, not significant at small print sizes, up to A2 but probably noticeable at A1. Would my P45+ fail, I would not replace it, but I will probably not try to sell it either. I guess I take about half of my pictures are on the P45+. My processing is in Lightroom, it is strongly suggested that Capture One gives better results, but we don't make friends, C1 and me. I have been a Lightroom addict since 2006. The issues I see with Lightroom are mainly demosaic errors, documented here: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=94812.0
I would say that the new CMOS backs should be interesting, if you can afford them and live with the crop factor.
Sony is said to introduce new pro oriented cameras end of January or beginning of February, those cameras will probably be in the 46-54 MP range and have new sensor technology. Sony A-series take almost any lens, so you can put an Otus on it, with an adapter. You can probably buy one of those A9 (?) cameras with both Zeiss Otus lenses for the price of a digital back. Canon is said to release similar cameras in the same time frame, and Sony sensors are bound to show up in Nikons pretty soon.
Well, some food for thought. Whatever you choose I wish you happiness with you choice!
Best regards
Erik
For what it's worth, I have had good experience with CPS (and heard mostly good reports from others and not the case with Nikon).
When it comes to which camera is more reliable - an H body or a Mamiya/Phase body, I do not believe it is possible for you or anyone else to really say, in critically accurate terms, no matter what is posted here. Meaning, even the highest volume dealers, including CI, will have a good sense of it, but even then, there are so many variables that unless you are a high volume shooter, choosing an H body or a Mamiya/Phase body based on the expected durability will not provide a clear advantage for either.
Are they reliable? This question does not provide the basis for an objective measurement. For someone who has never needed a repair, they are very, very reliable! For someone who needed a repair within 4 months after purchase on their 3rd outing with the camera, they are not very reliable at all. For someone shooting high volume who suffers a failure 18 months after purchase, the camera might not be considered unreliable, but they would probably wish it was more reliable.
These are electronic devices with moving parts inside them - they are often bound to fail at some point, some sooner than later. Even the most reliable automobile, while it may go for hundreds of thousands of miles, for some, they have a failure within the first year. These cameras are reliable enough - otherwise, they would not be selling, I understand there are exceptions, and certain cases. But you'll mostly hear of the failures, and you'll never really hear from the others who have not had a problem. Certainly anyone who suffers a failure would like them to be more reliable. But to your pertinent question - which is more reliable, I don't think there is an answer one way or the other and it would not be my reason for choosing one of the other.
When it comes to the digital backs, I would state that they are more reliable than the cameras (or the lenses/shutters) in either case. Although don't believe you cannot suffer a failure there - I would certainly state that yes, we have digital backs, both old and new, that require repair. But a significantly smaller percentage than the cameras/lenses. Generally, it is quite common that a digital back captures x00,000 actuations without ever needing any service or repair whatsoever.
Your camera and lenses are what is most likely going to need the servicing and repairs, but between the two systems, I don't see a difference in terms of the likelihood of these events.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Thanks!
Good info!
Best regards
Erik
CFH-22, CFH-39
CF-22, CF-22MS, CF-39, CF-39MS
H2D-22, H2D-39, H3D-22, H3D-39
31 mpix models can still be repaired, H3DII models can still be repaired, all H cameras (cameras - not backs) can still be repaired, for the backs for which full service has been discontinued, some limited repairs are still available
Source: http://hasselbladbron.com/index.php?option=com_easyblog&view=entry&id=59&Itemid=128 (http://hasselbladbron.com/index.php?option=com_easyblog&view=entry&id=59&Itemid=128)
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Hi Guys!
thx for all feedbacks, I rather go with P1.
I would be happy to buy DF+, but because budget limits probably DF will be on ma table.. Shutter won't be a problem, I don't shoot too much. Only when I'm on the trip, so I will change the camera sooner than it breaks down.
in short
- rather 0-40C, that below 0C
- strobes (not speedlights)
- long exposure isn't for me, P25 will suit my needs
Paul
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Hi,
Don't overdo that 0-40C stuff, it is normal specification for home electronics. But it was very clear that Leaf was not willing to repair Anders Torger's kit until he could prove it failed above 0C.
Here is one of the threads on the issue: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=77014.0
And this thread is also worth reading: http://www.ludd.luth.se/~torger/photography/mfdb-guide.html
Best regards
Erik
Hi Guys!
thx for all feedbacks, I rather go with P1.
I would be happy to buy DF+, but because budget limits probably DF will be on ma table.. Shutter won't be a problem, I don't shoot too much. Only when I'm on the trip, so I will change the camera sooner than it breaks down.
in short
- rather 0-40C, that below 0C
- strobes (not speedlights)
- long exposure isn't for me, P25 will suit my needs
Paul
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Edit:
"Repairs seem to be expensive and frequent. My P45+ works well, this far, but some good posters on these threads have indicated that backs can be quite problematic. To be more specific, one of the posters I trust pretty much had repairs on all backs he had. Send me a PM if you need a reference.
That's absolutely untrue. The median number of service calls (calibration, repair, maintenance) for a back we sell is zero.
The poster you're referring to had several *calibrations* done not several "repairs". He's especially picky (well within his rights with expensive gear!) and had especially bad luck - a bad combo."
I may be the poster referred to as picky, and I actually don't feel I was being too picky (if it was me), considering that the IQ260 came back to me in a condition that rendered it non-useable in any type of normal light, i.e totally blown highlights. And considering that the back had gone in for a "repair" -- "replacement" of the WiFi top plate, in perfect working order and came back to me in that condition was a bit of a shock. The greater shock I had was attempting to get Phase One to agree that there was a problem as once they found out I was using a tech camera, they tried to blame the condition on the tech lens, even though I had many thousands of previous frames with same back and lens, and none showed the issue. I was lucky enough to still have my old DF and showed Phase One that the same problem was occurring with that combination, then they were able to allow a return.
Back to the OP's question.
The DF and DF+ are well build camera bodies, based on the older Mamiya 645 series. They are heavy, solid, and all the control surfaces are well laid out. The main difference between the DF and DF+ is a vastly both more accurate and faster locking AF system. arThe DF+ also ships with the Li-on battery back, which is also much better than the 6 back AA back that the DF takes. You can purchase the Li-on back for the DF and if you plan on using a DF a lot I would make the purchase. AA's Alkaline have a linear drain and are not well suited to the DF body. Li-on AA work much better but are much more expensive. You still only have 3 AF points and really as the outer 2 are so close to the center, you in effect only have 1. Both bodies have to have firmware upgrades done with the V grip installed. If you own a V grip you can do it, if not the the body has to go to a dealer for the upgrade. Finder on the DF, or DF+ is bright, but I never found it bright enough for very accurate manual focus, especially with wides. Telephoto lenses are much easier. There is a magnifier that can be added to the viewfinder that makes detailed focus easier. If you pick a back with USB3, you can also tether to a Surface Pro or similar device and get excellent focus feedback on the fly and in the field.
Net, the DF is not a DSLR body, no way to compare it, feature function, connectivity etc. The back and DF really are two separate entities. This has gotten a bit better with the DF+ and IQ backs, but still it has a long way to go.
Lenses, you have huge options.
You can use older Mamiya MF glass, some of which is very good, you can use Mamiya AF lenses or Phase D (Digital) lenses or the Phase One LS lenses (leaf shutter). Most of the wides are OK, 28mm, 35mm, and 45mm, but other lenses are excellent, 55mm (AF), 75-150, 210 AF, 240AF, 55 LS, 110LS 300mm, to name a few. Many of these lenses will show up on the used market but new, they are priced in line with Pentax 645z lenses (new design).
Some of the older Mamiya MF lenses, 35mm, 45mm, 150mm are very reasonable used and have very good optics.
If possible, I would seek out a dealer and try to demo the DF or DF+ with a few of the lenses, in the focal range you are looking for.
Paul
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FWIW... I've been shooting Phase Backs for 7 years. P45+, P65+ & IQ260. I've never had a single issue and traded in my P65+ with 55,000 exposures on it.
YMMV,
CB
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As usual, certain characters without first hand experience are all over the thread spreading hearsay. Oh well.
I do have a DF+ and I have shot with it in pretty hot and humid conditions (38 degree C, 90% humidity) and also in the occasional drizzle. No issues at all.
Works with 1/500 sync with a pocketwizard easily in the studio. Any higher and you lose power. Profoto Airs will get you faster sync speeds without much power loss.
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Hi Synn,
As usual certain characters posts totally irrelevant info, 38C is absolutely within temperature specifications, 0-40C.
I presume that you refer to my posting on the problems that Torger had, the information is not hearsay as it is well written down and documented in detail.
To be more specific Anders Torger did have a repair replacing the E-box, cost around 3000€ (if I recall correctly), and he had warranty on that repair. The camera still was not reliable below zero C, but repair was denied as it was outside environmental specs. Once Anders could demonstrate that the problem was present at +1C which is inside environmental specs he got the issue resolved to his satisfaction.
The point is not what works, but what help you get when things fail. And of course the probability it happens. I don't understand what sync speeds have to do camera reliability at low temperatures and customer support.
If you are buying a second hand MFD equipment under budget constraints it is good to be aware of potential pitfalls. It may be that risks can be minimised by having support of a good dealer.
Regarding shooting under drizzle, I have been shooting prolonged under sky fall conditions using a Minolta XE-1 and later Minolta AF 9000-s. I could pour water out of the systems but they survived (most water in the lenses). I was obviously lucky. BTW, rain is essentially distilled water and normally not very corrosive, salt water spray is a much worse problem. My major problem with shooting in bad weather is water on the front lens, not good for the MTF, you know.
I got the impression that Phase stuff is reliable, lots of Phase Ones on those Antartic workshops. The issue Anders Torger discussed was on an older Aptus. My P45+ has worked fine for 15 months, but I was only using it under benign conditions. We had no real winter past year.
Best regards
Erik
As usual, certain characters without first hand experience are all over the thread spreading hearsay. Oh well.
I do have a DF+ and I have shot with it in pretty hot and humid conditions (38 degree C, 90% humidity) and also in the occasional drizzle. No issues at all.
Works with 1/500 sync with a pocketwizard easily in the studio. Any higher and you lose power. Profoto Airs will get you faster sync speeds without much power loss.
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The very first post talks about sync speeds. I am giving some first hand info.
Also, I fail to see how Torger's Aptus or your Minoltas have anything to do with a query about the DF+.
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Hi Synn,
First response on this thread was by Doug Peterson with four videos, one showing a Phase back operating at 175C and one showing it working at -79C. If Doug's posting is relevant in the context it is also relevant to discuss how Phase One and it's dealers handle slightly out of environmental specification issues.
The info on sync times is very useful, even if the question was about durability.
It is nice to hear that you camera have survived drizzling rain at 39 centigrade, my expectations may be different.
Best regards
Erik
The very first post talks about sync speeds. I am giving some first hand info.
Also, I fail to see how Torger's Aptus or your Minoltas have anything to do with a query about the DF+.
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Everybody here will tell you that the dealer margins are justified for Phase backs, because a good dealer makes a huge difference.
This is true, and Doug and Steve are good dealers.
However a bad dealer also makes a huge difference.
So - if you are going to buy MF, buy the dealer, not the camera. Find a good dealer and get what he has in your budget. Or else get a really cheap second hand camera, after testing it. I believe backs are usually very reliable, your field experience with the camera and lens may vary.
Edmund
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I'm one step away from buying 645DF. (I'm newbie in MF).
Could you advice me which body seems to be more durable (lenses as well) ? Phase One 645DF or Hasselblad H3DII-39 ?
I know that both don't have sealings, and it's more common to use them in studio, than outdoor, but I have to choose.
My needs:
- strobes (645z have low flash sync speed, 1/125 sec :/)
- outdoor (travel photography, small dust is common)
- big sensor (645Z have only 44x33)
thx
Paul
You don't choose between a DF and a H3DII-39 because of durability. You choose the one that you want to work with the best. Get a hold of one of each and feel them out.
Don't forget that with the DF you can choose from a wide range of lenses, some of which are VERY affordable (Mamiya 645) and you can mount a VERY wide range of Digital backs. With the H3DII-39 you are committed to that particular back.
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With the H3DII-39 you are committed to that particular back.
At the price H3D39s are now trading on ebay, I don't think it's much of a "commitment". I see one with $2700 up on bids ...
Edmund
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Hi,
As far as I recall, they have replaced the batteries before shooting. I don't think the oven was a microwave oven, as they don't have a thermostat.
The issue is more that I feel there is a disparity between Phase marketing and environmental specifications. They say the back works at -79 -- 175 centigrade but they warranty it at 0 -- 40 centigrade.
At best, Phase One may have high quality construction, but why don't they update environmental specs to something reasonable like:
Environmental specifications: Operating temperature -35 to 65 centigrade, please note that noise levels may increase above 25 centigrade.
Fake marketing discredits a company, don't talk about 16 bit advantage and focus on what the product may deliver.
Best regards
Erik
This is ridiculous. Phase makes great backs and indeed they are quite sturdy. They don't need this fraudulent videos. They should be ashamed of them.
The back in the microwave does not operate at 175C, its internals are nowhere near 175C. Microwave ovens do not heat the inside of metal enclosures. No back operates at 175C for the simple reason that no battery operates at 175C (at least not the kind used in cameras). Same goes for -79C.
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Or else get a really cheap second hand camera, after testing it. I believe backs are usually very reliable, your field experience with the camera and lens may vary.
Edmund
Yes. This is where edmund and I agree.
Test a 30mpx digital back against a 40 mpx one and you'll see no real world difference, other than that debit on your bank statement.
Comparing my Leica S2 next to my ancient p30+ and Contax, I'd bet dollars to donuts the Contax shoots a slightly better file, same iso.
Also phase backs just don't wear out. Yea anything can have problems but it's rare, though if your buying straight without a trade in look at the used prices of previous
generation backs.
Their value drops faster than the I-tune sales of a Boy Band.
IMO
BC
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thx to all of you guys! Choice of mine is 645DF!