Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: William Chitham on November 07, 2014, 02:45:08 pm
-
Just put a new gray ink cartridge into my z3200, resumed printing then after a few passes it ground to a halt with a message saying the cartridge is defective. Never seen this before in 6 years of Z ownership, anyone got a magic fix? Always on a Friday evening...
-
Did you try reseating the cartridge?
-
Not only that, I even tried turning it off and turning it back on again! Think I need some proper strong magic to fix this. Or maybe I just won't print anything till Tuesday.
-
Pull the cartridge out, look very carefully at the metal part and see if it is blocked by a piece of wrapper or anything that would impeded ink flow. If not, then just shake the cart really well, put it back in and try it again.
If still nothing, put your old cart back in and see what happens.
-
Done all that. Through a glass I can see some nice marks on the contacts so looks like it should be making a good connection but I'll try some contact cleaner on it tomorrow. Managed to squeeze another print out of the old cartridge when I refitted that so the problem does seem confined to that new cartridge. Thanks for all suggestions, beer time now. Will give it another go tomorrow.
-
It could be the cartridge pump if you hear a hysteric pumping before the error appears in the printer panel. Air in the cart's membrane pump will make the pump ineffective. Gpo outside and put a blunt syringe needle in the ink seal and use the back of a pencil to activate the pump, ink will squirt several feet if the pump works. Pull any air out with a syringe + the blunt needle if it did not squirt.
If the error still appears it can be a chip issue. A hack in that case so you can print this weekend; cut the labels that run over the seam between the cartridge body and the cap (with the chip) and pull the cap off. Replace it with the near empty one cap. Use tape to make that connection safe. If there was something wrong with the new chip the printer will work but the ink counter will not show the content anymore, only low. If you want some feedback then you have to put the cart on a scale from time to time. 50 grams is near empty, the printer itself will declare the cart empty at the end when the pump can not pull out ink anymore.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
September 2014, 650+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
No frantic pumping just an immediate faulty cartridge message (and no blunt needle) so I jumped straight to the chip swap. The end caps come off surprisingly easily and with the new/old chip the new cartridge was accepted. Printing resumed but the ink level was showing as very low and after a short time the printer reported the new cartridge out of ink - presumably the chip has usage information recorded on it. Am I missing a step? Do I need a chip resetter to wipe the old info?
By the way, to confirm that the new chip is defective I fitted it to the old cartridge and immediately got the faulty cartridge message again.
-
William,
My experience with swapping caps has been good but I have seen a message by someone else in the US that it not always works. I have a gut feeling not all firmware acts the same in chip detection. No chip resetter needed BTW. Do you have another grey cap around to try that one?
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
September 2014, 650+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
The problem, according to some non scientific experiments performed by some friends, is that you let the old (good) cart run dry. Apparently once the printer is unable to suck any more ink from the cart it records something on the chip that makes it unusable. If you manage to remove the cart an swap the caps when it is almost empty, like 1%, you can use it indefinitely but it will always display 1%.
-
William, if you can't get that cart working, over this weekend, you can get a chip resetter here:
http://www.macroenter.com/chip-resetter-tool-for-hp
and chips here:
http://www.macroenter.com/chips-and-decoders/hp/resettable-chips
Also, refill syringe:
http://www.macroenter.com/refill-tool-with-needle-60-ml-syringe
For these prices, you should be able to get that cart working and be able to have a good "work-around" kit for any problems in the future.
-Mark
-
I still wonder whether that new cart pumps ink out or not.
If not the printer will give the empty announcement when the chip is already at low content. I have reused chips that had been declared empty though. Other HP printers will accept a used chip again when another chip has been used in between. So it can be complicated but not impossible. My situation is more unique as I can switch carts between a Z3100 and a Z3200.
Ernst, op de lei getypt.
-
I still wonder whether that new cart pumps ink out or not.
If not the printer will give the empty announcement when the chip is already at low content. I have reused chips that had been declared empty though. Other HP printers will accept a used chip again when another chip has been used in between. So it can be complicated but not impossible. My situation is more unique as I can switch carts between a Z3100 and a Z3200.
Ernst, op de lei getypt.
If the new cart does not pump ink out, if he gets a syringe, he can extract the ink and put it into another cart. If it reads empty, he can put a chip in and reset it and go. That new cart has definitely got something wrong with it, whether it is not pumping or the chip is screwed up. Those three items will immediately get the job done for less money and without buying a new cart, and he's good to go. Thats's what I would do at this point, considering the tools are good for future use....
-Mark
-
Phoned my supplier this morning rather expecting him to say don't worry, send it back and we'll replace it but no, I had to phone HP's support. They put me through a few hoops, pull all the cartridges, replace all the cartridges, send them a service plot and proof of purchase and voila, a replacement cartridge on its way from HP and they don't want the old one back! So I end up with 130ml of ink gratis if I can just find a way to use it. I'll definitely persist with chip swapping and so on once I have a new cartridge to play with and may try the resettable chip route if all else fails.
Thanks very much to all for suggestions,
William.
-
I had a LM cartridge go bad on me just after this thread, ironically. It was an older out of warranty cart and all the chip resetting and fussing with it would not work.
I ordered a fillable cartridge from macroenter:
( http://www.macroenter.com/inkjet-cartridges/refillable-cartridges/hp-compatible/refillable-cartridge-compatible-with-hp-70-c9455a-l-magenta?___SID=U (http://www.macroenter.com/inkjet-cartridges/refillable-cartridges/hp-compatible/refillable-cartridge-compatible-with-hp-70-c9455a-l-magenta?___SID=U) )
and I pulled the round capping ball on the FULL HP LM cartridge and literally just poured it into the refillable cartridge, cleaned up the little bit of spillage and plugged it in to my Z3200 24" and it took immediately. Viewed ink info and not only was it reading full, but it was reading "in warranty".
This is the solution to this problem for me in the future. The refillable cartridge has an auto-reset chip so can be refilled any number of times. It makes me wonder about just getting the entire set and transferring all the inks. You can see how full they are and easy enough to continue using without pesky out of warranty messages. Really, a month or two months out of warranty and HP expects us to buy an entirely new cartridge?
-
There is no pump on a cartridge like that. If the head does not get a proper supply of ink you may get another problem. I'm curious how long the chip lasts, if long then I would think of replacing the chip to a normal HP 70 cart. Keep us informed.
Ernst, op de lei getypt.
-
There is no pump on a cartridge like that. If the head does not get a proper supply of ink you may get another problem. I'm curious how long the chip lasts, if long then I would think of replacing the chip to a normal HP 70 cart. Keep us informed.
Ernst, op de lei getypt.
Hi Ernst,
Nice to hear from you sir - always a pleasure. You bring up very good points as always.
I was given this printer, (Z3200 24") and all print heads were clogged, belt was bad, rear carriage bushing broken, and PSU fan not working. At one point long ago, you encouraged me to work on my printers and I resisted, but I have been doing my own work since then, due to your inspiration. (Thanks for that).
On the macro enter website, there are a few statements about the refillable HP cartridges:
Compatible cartridges come with an auto-reset chip; it can be exchanged if needed. It is made with clear plastic to check the level of ink and come with a hole on top to refill by using bulk ink and out refill tool or any syringe.
1) Uses a sponge less structure to avoid damaging the printer head because of cartridge aging.
2) Each cartridge has two unilateralism valves on the base of primary suction that ensure there is no ink leakage or print spot, to avoid the printer head block(ing?) the system when it is printing.
Reference: http://www.macroenter.com/inkjet-cartridges/refillable-cartridges/hp-compatible/refillable-cartridge-compatible-with-hp-70-c9455a-l-magenta (http://www.macroenter.com/inkjet-cartridges/refillable-cartridges/hp-compatible/refillable-cartridge-compatible-with-hp-70-c9455a-l-magenta)
The language is not completely clear, but is interesting. I am treating this printer as entirely experimental and trying out different methods of working with the Z Series printers to understand their potential and their limitations.
As I understand it, (from other information on their webiste) the auto reset chips are fully reusable - they don't need replacing. If you buy one of their chips and use the chip resetting tool, they can be reset an infinite number of times.
I am, like you, somewhat skeptical, but also hopeful. I definitely will keep you (all) posted on this issue, especially if it continues to work and continues to operate flawlessly with no printhead damage. This is just one cartridge and one printhead. We'll see what happens.
My thinking is that it is imperative to keep an eye on the cartridge. When it becomes very low, I will no doubt remove it, and replace with a new HP 70 cartridge. Plan is to wash out the refillable cartridge and have the chips at standby, so I can refill and fix any other problems that might occur. I see this as a remedy for a broken nearly full HP cartridge, until I can find a source of Vivera inks in bulk and for way less money (Not likely) and can refill all of the carts.
-Mark
-
I use similar cartridges for Pro B 9100 and Pro B 8850 without any problem. Cartridge is not sealed it has opening on the top therefore gravity do the job. Regular HP cartridge is completly close system so it must have system for presuring the ink in cartridge in order for ink to flow.
Problem with reusable cartridge may be evoparation of water from ink if you do not use it regulary and replace it with fresh ink. My 9100 was not in use for almost one year and now I have problems with clogging. I have to clean heads and replace all the ink in cartridges to solve that problem.
You will not find bulk Vivera ink, but you may buy original Vivera cartridges with higher capacity of ink, like cartridge 91 and use ink from that cartridges which is original genuine HP Vivera ink but is much cheaper, almost half the price than cartirdge No. 70.
-
I had thought about the 91 cartidges, Damir, and only mentioned bulk Vivera as a "wish there was" kind of thing. Still in all, you may be right about the 91 inks being half price - it would help.
So far so god with the refillable cartridge. I really only plan to use them as "rescue cartridges" for broken HP ones that won't function. Plan to clean it out and save for next problem.
But maybe if printing a lot, will consider the 91 inks and the refillable cartridges. It's nice to be able to plainly see how much ink is in there.
As an experiment, so far going well. OP could do this with the surplus ink from the broken HP cartidge, then go back to a new HP cartridge when the refillable is depleted.
Good point about not letting it sit for too long.
-
Mark, it doesn't work. Over the years I collect a lot of ink from empty Vivera cartridges, using it to fill ink in to the smaller printer. It is possible to get from 10 to 20 ml of ink from empty cartridge, I don't know why quantity differs from cartridge to cartridge. Anyway I wrote that heads clogs sometimes – it seems to me that I was wrong what actually happen is that heads cannot deliver the ink on paper because system must be under the pressure, as Ernst mention. When cartridge was full gravity do the job, but after some ink was used there is not enough weight of ink to push the ink through the tubes to the heads.
How I get to this conclusion? My ProB 9180 and 8850 are no longer in use, therefore I ordered refillable cartridges for Z to use the ink, suddenly I miss some inks in the print - completely – actually the inks that was in refillable cartridges, LC and Y. When I print test chart there is no ink at all on it from that cartridges. I pull out the heads and touch paper towel with nozzles – ink was there. I put back regular HP cartridges and printer works fine. Because Z have much longer tubes than small printers does, it seems that ink weight in the cartridge is not capable of pushing the ink to the head, it must be under pressure in order to work. Therefore all that refillable cartridges that various companies sell for HP Z printers are unusable.
It is interesting that I was looking for that information all over the web before I order cartridges, but I was not able to find any info at all. It is for sure that I am not the first person who buys such cartridges. It seems to me that people who made mistakes by buying wrong items and trashing out the money through the window by that purchase keep quiet for some reason.
-
Mark, it doesn't work. Over the years I collect a lot of ink from empty Vivera cartridges, using it to fill ink in to the smaller printer. It is possible to get from 10 to 20 ml of ink from empty cartridge, I don't know why quantity differs from cartridge to cartridge. Anyway I wrote that heads clogs sometimes – it seems to me that I was wrong what actually happen is that heads cannot deliver the ink on paper because system must be under the pressure, as Ernst mention. When cartridge was full gravity do the job, but after some ink was used there is not enough weight of ink to push the ink through the tubes to the heads.
How I get to this conclusion? My ProB 9180 and 8850 are no longer in use, therefore I ordered refillable cartridges for Z to use the ink, suddenly I miss some inks in the print - completely – actually the inks that was in refillable cartridges, LC and Y. When I print test chart there is no ink at all on it from that cartridges. I pull out the heads and touch paper towel with nozzles – ink was there. I put back regular HP cartridges and printer works fine. Because Z have much longer tubes than small printers does, it seems that ink weight in the cartridge is not capable of pushing the ink to the head, it must be under pressure in order to work. Therefore all that refillable cartridges that various companies sell for HP Z printers are unusable.
It is interesting that I was looking for that information all over the web before I order cartridges, but I was not able to find any info at all. It is for sure that I am not the first person who buys such cartridges. It seems to me that people who made mistakes by buying wrong items and trashing out the money through the window by that purchase keep quiet for some reason.
Hi Damir,
This thread has been dead a long time, but since you've brought it back up again, we can certainly revisit this issue. You know, I remember using a completely full Magenta replacement ink tank from an HP cartridge that stopped working on me. For quite a while, it worked fine and then all of a sudden it quit working. So possibly, you may be right, that Ernst's explanation about needing to be under pressure is correct.
But wait!
I just walked out to the print studio and looked at my Z3200 24" printer and checked all the inks. Actually there is a refillable cartridge in the Light Magenta slot and it has been there for over 6 months. I had completely forgotten about it until just now, and as I looked at it, the rubber cap is actually out of its' hole and the cartage is exposed to air. I ran a printhead diagnostic last week and everything is perfect - not a break in any line, and everything cooking just as it should.
So what do we conclude now? Well I have heard that the Magenta ink will not work in a refillable cartridge. I have found this to be true, after a certain point. But oops, the light magenta ink WILL work. Very odd and strange.
I think it will take someone with a pay grade higher than mine to figure it out. Some work, some don't? Why?
I mainly got the replaceable ink cartridges to be able to transfer ink from a cartridge that stopped working to avert disaster in an emergency situation. So I haven't planned on ever relying on the refillables accept during an emergency.
I don't feel ripped off by the company because I have cartridges that I consider "rescue carts."
Ultimately, I'd prefer to use current HP cartridges and avoid trouble.
FWIW / YMMV.
Mark
-
Hi Mark
Actually you are right, some cartridges work, some not, it is a mystery. But problem is that heads on HP have two channels. For example Magenta work on my printer but yellow not. I replace both of them with refillable cartridges. Those two inks use same head therefore I replaced them both in order to equalize pressure in printhead. Never the less, my first problem started with yellow, which become darker, than become orange, and finally red – so conclusion is that magenta ink somehow get into the yellow part of printhead.
I replaced that printhead with new one, and suddenly yellow ink is completely missing. I put back original ink cartridges, and it started to work flawlessly.
I got similar problem with Light cyan Light magenta – LM is working, LC shows only traces of ink – both of them refillable cartridges, with original ink cartridges both channels deliver ink without the problem. Also with combination of Gloss Enhancer – Gray, where gray area of print show severe banding.
-
Ultimately, I'd prefer to use current HP cartridges and avoid trouble.
Mark
My approach too. Mark, I do hope you mentioned the larger cart acceptance to the HP Barcelona man as a new feature for an upgraded Z3200-PS model?
6 or 7 ink 300 ML cartridges of the Z5200/Z5400 fit in the Z3200 bays when the doors stay open. Among them the inks that empty the fastest. I usually buy a 130ml Z3200 cart + a 300 ML cart of that type. Let the 130ML go first and then take the chip panel off and put it on the big cart. Kept this a secret for some time but with the Photokina 2016 approaching and your messages it is time to let Barcelona decide whether it could become a feature. Doors of the Z5400 are ugly but at least cover the bigger carts.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
-
YES Ernst!!!!
We have been successfully utilizing HP772 carts (300 ml) for the Yellow, LtGray, and black cartriges, by swapping out the bottom cap of a HP70 cart before it registers totally empty. Of course, you have to manually check the ink levels by weighing the carts periodically.
John Nollendorfs
-
Asking a dumb question about the swapping of chip from the 130mL cart to the 300mL cart...how does the printer know how full the cart is?
I am assuming you are using the 130mL cart until the reading is close to empty, and then swapping the chip into the 300mL cart, but wouldn't the printer tell you the 300mL cart is near empty too? Does the z3200 (z3100?) allow you to keep printing past what it thinks is empty?
-
The printer tells you the cart is near empty till the last ml of the 300 flows from the cart.
Ernst, op de lei getypt.
-
My approach too. Mark, I do hope you mentioned the larger cart acceptance to the HP Barcelona man as a new feature for an upgraded Z3200-PS model?
6 or 7 ink 300 ML cartridges of the Z5200/Z5400 fit in the Z3200 bays when the doors stay open. Among them the inks that empty the fastest. I usually buy a 130ml Z3200 cart + a 300 ML cart of that type. Let the 130ML go first and then take the chip panel off and put it on the big cart. Kept this a secret for some time but with the Photokina 2016 approaching and your messages it is time to let Barcelona decide whether it could become a feature. Doors of the Z5400 are ugly but at least cover the bigger carts.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
Thank you Ernst-
Mark
-
I use the same system. I suppose that it may depend on the firmware, but once I use bottom cap of 130 ml cartridge on 300 ml cartridge I can use same bottom all over again, no need to buy new 130 ml cartridge ever again.
After some time my printer show message "altered" instead of ink level, when it reach that stage chip is ready for use as many time as you need.
Anyway I wanted to use all that ink that I collect for reffiling ProB 9180. I also prefer to use genuine HP cartridges and stay away from the trouble, especially now when I know that refillable cartridges cause trouble :-)
-
Here you can find interesting pictures of what is inside HP ink cartridge:
http://www.continuousink.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4194