Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: CRFTony on November 04, 2014, 02:41:10 pm
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I've been a full time photographer for 7 years. I primarily focus on portraits and I hate to repeatedly tell clients to go to Michaels/Hobby Lobby to get their portraits framed. I feel like I'm losing money on potential add on sales, but I'm also making another "chore" for my clients to deal with and with everyone's hectic lifestyles today, I know most customers don't want to be bothered.
I'm considering turning part of my home based studio into a framing business and I'm wondering if anyone else here has made that leap and wants to share some advice. I already do my own printing and adding framing would be a nice addition because I could more easily offer custom sizes, etc. I also like the idea of giving clients a truly "finished" product. I've already begun looking around at the various items needed, the wall mounted glass cutter, mat cutter, etc. If anyone wants to give advice on suppliers for moulding/mats I'd be very receptive. I'm in Western Pennsylvania, if that matters. :)
Thanks!
Tony
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I frame my gator-mounted, varnished prints with very simple frames where I pick the moulding which I buy 1000+ feet at a time. No glazing, no mattes, no backing, no user-specified options, just a classic oil-painting style presentation. Looks fabulous on the wall. Takes less than an hour to go from print to finished frame, and earns me several hundred extra dollars per sofa-sized piece. But it would be wildly insane for me to do the whole thing with glass, mattes, etc because I would have no time left for shooting or wasting on forums.
If you simply must persist, find a framing business that is closing and buy their equipment. And listen to their woeful stories, and think about those carefully before you leap. Or lay down $12,000+ for decent equipment, being careful not to be seduced by hobbiest level equipment that is worse than useless. Crummy equipment is a soul crushing curse.
Be advised that I know two photographers who tried the framing + photography thing, and they both repeatedly tell me how glad they were to drop the framing part. And they were just buying nearly completed frames from, uh, a company named maybe Stevens (or something) that panders to the wedding market. And add one gallery owner to that list.
International Moulding is not far from you and has some some decent bargain moulding. Omega is another low-baller. Negotiate volume pricing on the phone. Note that shipping costs for box quantity moulding might be substantial depending on your location and must always be factored into price calculations. Ask about shipping programs, sometimes you can get a break on shipping that is significant. Look for a supplier that has some sort of deal with a local shipper, that can be a real money saver over the standard LTL freight that I have to use. Framing Supplies dot com sells marginally OK framing hardware and consumables, also matboard and glass by the palette. Or cut a volume production deal with somebody like framah and save some money in the long run, unless you are looking at enough product per year to justify a skilled employee which is the only option I would consider for framing fancier than the basic stuff I do now.
You should ask your question on thegrumble.com. Expect an ear full.
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Hey Bill. I'm curious what your finished product looks like. You have any photos anywhere?
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Hi,
I do some of my own personal work framing, but find that working with a local framer often works best for client work-- I am a better photographer than framer :-). I simply mark-up the framing cost. And, I highly recommend having framed samples with regular framing glass and non-reflective glass such as Artglass.
Jean-Michel
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Read what Bill said again.
What part of your studio are you going to convert to framing? - 80%?
A moulding cutter with a 3 metre length hanging out of it requires at least 5metres, plus walk round area. Then you have to store the mouldings. You need a place to store the mat boards and two tables about 2metres long. You will also need an underpinner and a table for that to support to the frame lengths. You will probably need a vertical cutter and you will certainly need a mat board cutter, not a toy but something over a metre long like a Keencut. You will eventually need other gear like a press, shrink wrapper etc.
I have all this gear but it is in the garage with the car outside. Space for the studio is by comparison small.
Also don't think that you can just pick this up. You will need to be taught. Good luck if you go this road.
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Perhaps you could find a good framing shop and strike up a relationship - they would frame your prints for your customers, with perhaps a limited range of options, and you would charge a reasonable markup.
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Hey Bill. I'm curious what your finished product looks like.
Well here's a cell phone shot of my art fair booth a few years ago. Note the frames and mostly 3 to 4 wide moulding in a bronze style that sells well in the southwest. All the scenes are local to Albuquerque, and sized to decorate the spaces over sofas and beds, plus waiting rooms, hallways, etc. Nothing else comes even close to selling images that glorify the local scenery, shows like this are good for $20K+ net with that kind of material.
You can see some stuff in the locally produced video, towards the end. Just click on the video. Note the cutting edge panohead and the Nikon/Canon hybrid.
http://krqe.com/2014/07/18/at-first-a-health-scare-now-world-renowned-art/
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You all have officially talked me out of this. Thanks! ;)
I really do appreciate the candid advice, it's just what I needed to hear. Unfortunately there aren't an local framers left in my area with whom I can team up. The only outlet within 25 miles is a Michaels.
I do think I'll check out some premade frames though, and just stick with the more typical sizes.
Thanks again!
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If you have a change of heart, you should go to the West Coast Art and Framing Show in Las Vegas this coming January 25 to 28. The trade show has displays from all the major moulding and equipment suppliers. You can see examples of all the latest printer gear at the DTG booth. Epson has a very large booth, where they typically display framed but not glazed examples of all their media printed with very high quality images that best demonstrate the paper. Schewe's amazing d-max on d-max gumball machine print was prominently displayed there when last I attended, it has to seen to be believed.
Hmmm, looking at the floor plan it seems a bit smaller than previous years, but the heavy hitters will be there.
http://www.wcafshow.com
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I've been a full time photographer for 7 years. I primarily focus on portraits and I hate to repeatedly tell clients to go to Michaels/Hobby Lobby to get their portraits framed. I feel like I'm losing money on potential add on sales, but I'm also making another "chore" for my clients to deal with and with everyone's hectic lifestyles today, I know most customers don't want to be bothered.
I'm considering turning part of my home based studio into a framing business and I'm wondering if anyone else here has made that leap and wants to share some advice. I already do my own printing and adding framing would be a nice addition because I could more easily offer custom sizes, etc. I also like the idea of giving clients a truly "finished" product. I've already begun looking around at the various items needed, the wall mounted glass cutter, mat cutter, etc. If anyone wants to give advice on suppliers for moulding/mats I'd be very receptive. I'm in Western Pennsylvania, if that matters. :)
Thanks!
Tony
I’m in the process of setting up a frame making shop and will echo comments made above. It takes a lot of space, professional/commercial quality equipment and a lot of practice. And that does not include space needed for making the matts, which requires another set of specialized tools and skills. Frame making creates a very dusty environment where mats need a very clean environment.
And then, if you use glass, you’ll need to make sure you never, ever, ever walk barefoot or stocking footed within about 50’ of the glass cutter.
I recommend you find a wholesale frame maker nearby. They can solve all your needs for a lot less than Michael’s or other frame making thugs. In the Pennsylvania area there are probably lots of candidates for that. You will need to have a business license and probably the equivalent of a resale license in hand to get any wholesaler to work with you. The economics of making your own frames only start to become worthwhile once you are selling about 30 to 50+ average sized frames per month. The economics of in-house matt making are much more approachable than for frames.
Bill, awesome video and it’s a treat to see yer booth shot but your booth shot must have been captured on a Sunday; otherwise you’d be wearing slacks at your shows, right?
The simple area carpet and plant are nice touches. I’ve been debating using AstroTurf for inside shows ‘cus I’ve gotten used to doing shows on grassy fields.
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your booth shot must have been captured on a Sunday; otherwise you’d be wearing slacks at your shows, right?
The surprising thing is I wasn't wearing my cowboy boots. Oh I remember, didn't have time to scrape the manure off. Did you know that jeans are de rigueur in Paris? Hah! And you have to give me credit for brushing my teeth and not wearing a t-shirt.
And yes, the "practice" component of frame making is non trivial. Figure many hundreds of frames to begin producing non-embarrassing results. Just getting to the point where your corners fit properly is a steep climb. Really.
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The surprising thing is I wasn't wearing my cowboy boots. Oh I remember, didn't have time to scrape the manure off. Did you know that jeans are de rigueur in Paris? Hah! And you have to give me credit for brushing my teeth and not wearing a t-shirt.
And yes, the "practice" component of frame making is non trivial. Figure many hundreds of frames to begin producing non-embarrassing results. Just getting to the point where your corners fit properly is a steep climb. Really.
What, no filling up with wood putty like you do with Crown Moldings? :)
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What, no filling up with wood putty like you do with Crown Moldings? :)
No, you would have to use compo, a concoction of dead rabbits, piss, and other interesting stuff used to caste molded filagrees that are applied to wood. Here's how real frames made, often using molded compo decorations. (https://www.youtube.com/user/CJFRAMES) I'm pretty sure that's framah's shop. When my pieces reach the $40K a pop range, I'll use those kinds of frames.
And BTW, unfinished crown moulding is too expense to use for framing. Edit: at my level.
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Somebody call my name???
Thanks, Bill for the endorsement. The check is in the mail. ;)
First thing I have to say is:
Just say no to Michaels and Hobby Lobby. Most frame shops prices on a regular basis, are in line with their "sale" prices.
I usually give a 15 - 20% discount for just making a batch of frames for an established artist, but they must be ordered and paid for all at once, not I promise to buy 50 frames from you but can I just get 6 for now at the same price?
I think your best bet is to do what Bill is doing and work with set sizes and a minimum of frame styles. 3 or 4 at the most. Most frame suppliers sell joined frames and are shipped to you ready for you to fill.
You can show a couple of portraits framed in a couple of frame choices and also hang a few corner samples showing them the choices available. Try to find frames that will cost the same so they get one price shopping on all of your frames.
The basic thing to consider here is:
Do you want to photograph or do you want to make frames? Odds are that one or the other will suffer in some way. I got into framing so I could do my own work and eventually made it a store front and have been framing for over 20 yrs now and I have to close and go away for 2 or 3 weeks to be able to be fully in the shooting frame of mind.
Just heading out on a day off... if I actually GET one... doesn't cut it. All I think about is what still needs to be finished in 2 days so I can get paid.
Hmmm... the whine factor is increasing.. I feel a vacation coming on soon!!
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Here's my shop:
(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/framah/shopforweb_zps0327c36d.jpg) (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/framah/media/shopforweb_zps0327c36d.jpg.html)]
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PS:
We don't pee on the frames anymore. ;D
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I frame my gator-mounted, varnished prints with very simple frames where I pick the moulding which I buy 1000+ feet at a time. No glazing, no mattes, no backing, no user-specified options, just a classic oil-painting style presentation. Looks fabulous on the wall. Takes less than an hour to go from print to finished frame, and earns me several hundred extra dollars per sofa-sized piece. But it would be wildly insane for me to do the whole thing with glass, mattes, etc because I would have no time left for shooting or wasting on forums.
Quick question Bill. I'm sure you've mentioned it before because I'm sure I've read it, but just wanting to ask again.
You're no longer printing on canvas because of the surface defects.. correct? And switched to a textured water-color type paper which has a perfect finish if I recall... right? How are you mounting to gatorboard? And lastly, wide moulding is always gorgeous, as in your picture. What does it work out to per foot? I realize you're getting a quantity discount since you're buying 1000 feet, but I'm curious about the price and who the supplier/maker is if you don't mind. I almost wonder if all the expense that goes into tossed canvas prints because of surface defects, especially in gradient skies, combined with time to make stretcher bars and then stretch plus finish with black tape, if all this might be not that far off from buying molding, which is clearly gonna cost more than stretcher bars, but then you save on the paper vs canvas, no tape, no staples, no time to stretch... but of course the cost of the gator. In terms of presentation though, you can't beat the moulding versus just a stretched canvas. Thanks!
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If I may offer another little suggestion...
That black tape on the sides does not look as professional as you might think it does.
It looks very amateurish. If you are trying to cover the staples, then you need to staple on the back.
A cleanly folded corner with clean white sides looks way more professional than any tape does.
I would rather paint the edge black than put tape on it.
Plus you could mirror the image onto the sides of the canvas when it is printed... even better than just white canvas.
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Nice shop photo there, framah! But quite frankly, I am shocked by all the open floor space and easy access to tools that you have allowed to accumulate. There's help available, I'll say no more.
In regards to the types of moulding I use, about half of it is polystyrene that gives me a killer price point that makes me the terror of the few remaining art fairs I attend. The public loves it, framers hate it, galleries no longer care as long as it looks really good. The best looking 3 to 5 inch polys now look better than almost any wood moulding that can be bought for less than $6/foot in quantity. Be aware that most poly is crud, but 1 or 2% is superb until the supplier decides to go with the cheapest factory on the next run.
But there can be problems with even the best looking poly profiles. There is a packaging genius somewhere in China, and the attached photo shows you an example of his brilliant work. Discovered this only yesterday. I've got 20 more such boxes, and it's all going back. This is what framers have to deal with. I use everything up through the $20/ft moulding used my Mr. Lik, although I think it's the ugliest stuff on Earth. Sorry, no names will be named, I invested a heck of lot of time and money picking and testing those mouldings. Go to the WCAF show for more information.
Yes, BC Pura Velvet is a nice option to canvas, with a100% yield. But I wish it weren't so damned curly. It's got remarkable punch *for a matte paper* and seems to me as snappy as Epson Cold Press Bright, but without the OBA's. When varnished it pops up quite a bit, but you need custom profiles from varnished targets to make full use of that. As with the Epson "cold" papers the texture is quite pronounced and mechanically repetitive, which may or may not be a problem aesthetically. But it's a whole lot less mechanical looking than most canvases that are out there now, which is a look I just can't tolerate any more, especially when I see my old corrugated-surface canvas prints next to other more organic artwork surfaces. That upsets me, and it's a big competitive disadvantage where you work is seen next to original paintings, etc. But none of the manufacturers will listen to me on these topics, and I've tried. FWIW, Fredrix 777 has the best and most organic looking canvas surface right now, and its excellent reflective qualities when varnished usually make it the best looking canvas on the wall, in spite of having a rather meager gamut.
Am now experimenting with varnished Silver Rag. SR has the most stipple of any rich looking gloss media I have tried. That stipple carries on through several varnishing steps to create a more-or-less art paper looking type of surface. There are a few issues, but so far so good and I'm taking a chance by testing it at a major art fair next week. The pieces I have completed so far are rather stunning, even my jaded self is impressed. Tried also coating some of the Barytas, of which the new BC version is the best looking by far. However, because of the smooth surfaces on that type of media it's very difficult to get an artsy surface after varnishing. Every minute speck of dust is conspicuous on the nearly gloss varnished Baryta surfaces, whereas that it is not an issue on the stipply varnished SR surface.
All the media discussed here glues quite easily to Gator using LaminAll or Miracle Muck, which is the only way I have mounted art for a few years now. In comparison to canvas, you should let the glue get a little tackier before rolling on art paper prints, and be extra careful about removing little glue buggers and dirt before rolling the prints, because you can not press those down as you can with canvas.
So there!
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If I may offer another little suggestion...
That black tape on the sides does not look as professional as you might think it does.
It looks very amateurish. If you are trying to cover the staples, then you need to staple on the back.
A cleanly folded corner with clean white sides looks way more professional than any tape does.
I would rather paint the edge black than put tape on it.
Plus you could mirror the image onto the sides of the canvas when it is printed... even better than just white canvas.
Interesting viewpoint. The staples are on the back, the black tape on the side simply covers the image that is stretched over the side of the bars.
The way I see it is that when the image is left to go over the edge a few millimeters, this to me looks a bit amateurish because they couldn't get it lined up properly (which is of course difficult to do). So leaving it white never really looks that good in my opinion since you have about 1/2 centimeter of image and then white. The mirrored edge looks just as bad I think, especially given content where you might have stuff floating in space in a blue sky... like the top of a tree that gets mirrored. When this mirrored edge gets stretched over the side, this looks just as bad to me because now its very obvious where the mirrored edge starts and you get so many of those "V's" from the lines in the image that get mirrored.
The best solution is having enough of the picture to stretch over the sides, but this is a waste of megapixels, and you cannot frame your pictures properly when taking them to account for having to waste so much of the picture for stretching. Lastly, and most importantly, I see far too many canvases in the stores that have banged up corners where the ink starts to peel off. Even though coating a canvas works for not cracking when pulled tight over the bars, I just don't think it can stand multiple folds and creases around the corner. Once you bang this corner when either delivering the canvas or bringing it home, ink starts to flake off and this to me looks cheap. Who wants to buy a canvas where the corners are missing ink?
So I do actually think that the black tape looks the best in light of the limitations of all the other options. But nothing would look as nice as wooden moulding with the canvas mounted to gatorboard.
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In regards to the types of moulding I use, about half of it is polystyrene that gives me a killer price point that makes me the terror of the few remaining art fairs I attend. The public loves it, framers hate it, galleries no longer care as long as it looks really good. The best looking 3 to 5 inch polys now look better than almost any wood moulding that can be bought for less than $6/foot in quantity. Be aware that most poly is crud, but 1 or 2% is superb until the supplier decides to go with the cheapest factory on the next run.
When varnished it pops up quite a bit, but you need custom profiles from varnished targets to make full use of that. As with the Epson "cold" papers the texture is quite pronounced and mechanically repetitive, which may or may not be a problem aesthetically. But it's a whole lot less mechanical looking than most canvases that are out there now, which is a look I just can't tolerate any more, especially when I see my old corrugated-surface canvas prints next to other more organic artwork surfaces. That upsets me, and it's a big competitive disadvantage where you work is seen next to original paintings, etc. But none of the manufacturers will listen to me on these topics, and I've tried. FWIW, Fredrix 777 has the best and most organic looking canvas surface right now, and its excellent reflective qualities when varnished usually make it the best looking canvas on the wall, in spite of having a rather meager gamut.
Thanks so much for all the great info. Yikes, at even $10 a foot, that is still some serious cost when you consider that for a large piece you might need about 15 feet or so. I do agree that real wood versus really good plastic is not quite worth it. Its not like the customer will be touching it.. just looking at it!
And excellent points about doing profiles after coating. This is how I had mine done for canvas. Its amazing how much lighter the canvas comes out of the printer before its coated with Timeless. You really can see the difference, and when all the businesses are uploading profiles for their canvas, I wonder what the point is if the coating will surely darken the image and perhaps shift some colors. Perhaps most photographers just lighten the image overall before printing if they notice this.
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Just so you'll know, Bill... that open space is a straight line to the bathroom!! ;D
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For me it was an easy decision to do my own framing. But first, I'm just a hobby photographer since 45 years. I love printing my images since my high school days. I live in Canada's Yukon Territory where we have got just one small city with one framer that has to 'import' all his supplies for premium $$, needless to say he has to charge accordingly for his services/products. For years I just tagged my 'fine art' prints to my bathroom walls... a good place to examine the details from the throne ;-)
Friends, that I give a 17x22 print to, are quoted around $ 400 for a metal framed mat with quite ordinary glass. No talk of acid free material etc. either.
The winter nights are long and cold here... a good time to fire up the table saw, planers and router table etc. Recently I bought a Logan mat cutter and a bunch of supplies in the US since I can not even purchase 32 x 40 8 ply mat in Canada being just a hobbyist. Hey, I spend over 30 k on photo gear... what's another 5 to make beautiful frames? Sure, I've got a shop for the woodworking and a room for the matting and final assembly once my matting supplies make the last 1000 miles up the Alaska Hwy.
I just cut out my first moulding using 2x4s or 1x4s regular spruce from the local lumber yard, painted it and stuck a print with no mat or glass in it just to see how it looks... For me the answer is clear! I can cut about 10 frames of lets say 24 x 30 in three hours, sanding, painting and assembly for the frame moulding is about 30 minutes +/- per frame. No, I'm not planing on a commercial venture ;-) but I get a lot of satisfaction out of this. YMMV
William
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Nice job with the frame but I thought polar bears were white! :D
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Those are black polar bears, the ones with horns
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Nice looking frame there, Borealis. Fits the subject and in the right gallery would add a lot of value to the piece.
Have a friend who "carves" similar frames with a big angle grinder equipped with a steel brush. Perfect match for his rustic paintings. You really gotta like sawdust. And there's a local guy who mills moulding sticks out of huge burls, which look great as frames but are somewhat labor intensive. The problem with that construction lumber is that it breaks the miter joints as it shrinks, but with a rustic look that's a plus.
You can also make frames out of old circuit boards (http://daciagallery.com/sibiu/resources/07-patricia-watwood-sleeping-venus-2013-oil-on-canvas-40x40-ck.jpg). You have to look around the edges to see the frame. Painting by Patricia Watwood.
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Those are black polar bears, the ones with horns
Nice job with the frame but I thought polar bears were white! :D
Haha, don't ya know that them there are just our horned brown bears on a B&W print??? ;D
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You can also make frames out of old circuit boards (http://daciagallery.com/sibiu/resources/07-patricia-watwood-sleeping-venus-2013-oil-on-canvas-40x40-ck.jpg). You have to look around the edges to see the frame. Painting by Patricia Watwood.
Wait, that picture had a frame??? :D
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Nice looking frame there, Borealis. Fits the subject and in the right gallery would add a lot of value to the piece.
Have a friend who "carves" similar frames with a big angle grinder equipped with a steel brush. Perfect match for his rustic paintings. You really gotta like sawdust. And there's a local guy who mills moulding sticks out of huge burls, which look great as frames but are somewhat labor intensive. The problem with that construction lumber is that it breaks the miter joints as it shrinks, but with a rustic look that's a plus.
You can also make frames out of old circuit boards (http://daciagallery.com/sibiu/resources/07-patricia-watwood-sleeping-venus-2013-oil-on-canvas-40x40-ck.jpg). You have to look around the edges to see the frame. Painting by Patricia Watwood.
Thanks Bill,
Well, I figured I might as well start out on the cheap with the lumber until I've got the ideas somewhat right (moulding and paint combination) ... I do have pretty much all the tools and are anxiously waiting for the mat (not saying that I need to mat every print) and other framing supplies I ordered weeks ago... It's already somewhere in Canada heading North.
Actually I was surprised how quick one can fabricate some simple frames. Since years I have some rough cut lumber stored under a roof , I have been using it for other building projects and recently cut a bunch of other test moulding out of it... It's fun to be able to build/paint to suit your subjects on the prints, actually it's exciting :-)
Thanks for the other ideas you listed, I'll have a look for sure!
William
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bill t. do you have a website? I would like to see your work.
Mike
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Really enjoyed reading through these posts. Some great info in here that applies directly to my situation. I'm a pure hobbiest but I like to have fun doing things myself. I have had a few exhibits and want them to look better than they do now. I have 30 bug prints on display at a local nature center at the moment. I simply print them and mount on foam core. It's the cheapest solution and I recover zero of the cost. In fact it cost me even more money because a few science teachers have asked for prints for their class rooms and I just give them away (they couldn't afford them no matter how cheap they are). I can't afford to give away $6/ft mouldings but I still want the pictures to look decent.
I have an exhibit coming up that will show some of the rock art panoramas I've shot. These are long narrow panels about 12-18" tall and 8-12ft wide. Some of the ideas given here give me hope for doing more than just rolling a paper print from ipf6400 out on a table and taping the edges down. I can see these framed with my own frame moulding (have wood working shop) like Borealis, mounting paper or canvas on substrate like gator board (possibly hard board) like Bill, no glass, varnish possibly. Got the mind running... I think there is a way..
And NO, I would never consider framing for money! It's way too complicated. For the odd piece to hang in my house, that will be different. I also live in a smaller town with limited resources. I have to drive 5 hrs to find a piece of gator board. Not the Alaskan Highway but not around the corner either (hardboard is available around the corner).
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Arlon..
Remember that almost everything comes at a max size of 8'. So if you're going to print something 12' long... you will have to have a joint at the 8' point of whatever you are mounting onto.
That joint will ghost thru no matter what you do.
Even with 8' stuff, I'd consider mounting that to a subframe of 1x3 or 4 to make it more rigid and less prone to flexing and bending or outright breaking.
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Arlon..
Remember that almost everything comes at a max size of 8'. So if you're going to print something 12' long... you will have to have a joint at the 8' point of whatever you are mounting onto.
That joint will ghost thru no matter what you do.
Even with 8' stuff, I'd consider mounting that to a subframe of 1x3 or 4 to make it more rigid and less prone to flexing and bending or outright breaking.
12 ft is a problem, the only real solution I could come up with from local materials was a frame from elm or similar wood available up to 16', and simply stretch canvas. The 12' long panel would only be a about a 16" wide. The other option would be simply make it in two 6' pieces and just try to get them close at the joint. Make transporting a lot easier too! It's going to be a winter project to come up with something. This thread has given a lot of food for thought!
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An old adage from my fine woodworking days: "If you can't hide a joint, celebrate it." If the piece is so large that you would need to join materials, consider a triptych. - Jim
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12 ft is a problem, the only real solution I could come up with from local materials was a frame from elm or similar wood available up to 16', and simply stretch canvas. The 12' long panel would only be a about a 16" wide. The other option would be simply make it in two 6' pieces and just try to get them close at the joint. Make transporting a lot easier too! It's going to be a winter project to come up with something. This thread has given a lot of food for thought!
Arlon, if you want to make a 16" x 12' long surface, think hollow core doors. Create a simple light weight frame out of 3/4" x 16" x 12' and glue and clamp 1/4" birch or luan-type plywood to it. Use spring clamps to glue the frame to the plywood. Be very careful at the joints, and stagger them, front to back. Since the width is just 16", join them using a scarf joint cut on the table saw, for precision. Glue the first down with the 45 degree bevel facing downwards, then slide the other beveled piece in and carefully glue and clamp using wax paper and backing boards over the joint which should be tightly clamped. Afterwards, lightly belt sand then use an orbital sander to finish the joint. After experimenting, you may find that you can just make your "hollow core door" one sided, or open at the back once your joining technique is worked out. Figure out a jig to bring the plywood together at the scarf joint, perhaps run the whole 12 foot piece through a sanding machine, then glue your 3/4" pieces on with just hand clamps, mitering the corners. All this may sound tedious, but it goes very quickly. I've used this technique often, and the results can be very precise, and very light weight, and sturdy. Goes pretty quickly when you're set up for the process. Think either making the back frame first, or assembling the parts of the back frame onto the plywood. The latter works well. Thinking about it, perhaps two back framed sections where the scarf joint is pulled together and clamped from behind... many ways to skin this cat.
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Yup... canvas would solve the problem for sure!
The idea of a dyptic (sp.?) or tryptic is a nice one as well.
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Yes - really.
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If you wanted to have your custom moulding design made on polystyrene where could you get this done? Anyone in the US that can do this?
Mike
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Unless your prepared to order a considerably large volume (thousands of feet), and put up the expense for designing, tooling, and finishing, I doubt any manufacturer would be interested in a production run.
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Hi Bill,
On 11/6 last fall you said you were going to show prints on varnished silver rag at an art show next week. Can you tell me how they were received by the public?
Mike
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This thread is so amazing. I have adoption papers for a few of you guys.
When I was 18 I used to do framing at one of those big stores (AB ring a bell?). Yes for the OP, and myself, cutting molding is a bit much. Matt cutting is a breeze with the right cutter on a rail.
Some amazing works to be seen here, the shops and the works coming out of them. I used to work at a sign shop sometime after the framing store, at a sign shop who went into framing. He got a die cutting like machine from france or some place which make the cleanest cuts, and ordered some quality molding. That was 20 years ago and all things have changed. I think once I get to making my first print on canvas and stretch it, I'll think about framing. One thing I have been getting more accustomed to accepting is that framing I guess does sell much easier than unframed. I was hoping to offer a finished product that I could mostly produce and ship for the client to simply hang. As soon as they have to think about how and where to frame the sale can be easily missed.
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On 11/6 last fall you said you were going to show prints on varnished silver rag at an art show next week. Can you tell me how they were received by the public?
The public loved 'em. It was on of my best shows ever. The public mainly buys the image without fussing about highlights and d-max and surface qualities. They go for the image, and if it's local interest they may buy it as their first art purchase, ever. My main reason for the Silver Rag thing is:
1. To intimidate other photographers.
2. For situations where I am competing with metallic prints and other paradigms meant to appeal to K-mart shoppers. Silver Rag can easily blow that stuff away.
Silver Rag is the original "silver print" look-alike from some years ago. It's now morphed into something more like a very low frequency luster surface on a 15 mil substrate that has lovable handling characteristics to those of us who mount our prints. Looks terrific, I really like the way it resolves problematic reflections coming from eye-level light sources. Costs a lot, but worth it both for appearance and mechanical reasons, although those who are into feeling prints may be disappointed. To be fair: when not coated SR has relatively high bronzing and there are other more recent papers that are slightly better in that regard. But when properly coated, Premiere has not a hint of bronzing or hazy masking of any kind.
SR has mucho gamut. The gamut hulls of Gold Fibre and Silver Rag overlay each other almost perfectly, with very impressive d-max's and very similar tonality. The difference is, SR takes coating much better, and develops a very hard scratch, fingernail, and pizza-sauce proof surface with just 3 light coats of Premier Art Print Shield, which also lowers the d-max to around L= 1.0 and almost makes the surface disappear except for the reflections. Very pretty, very high gloss that does not look tacky.
IMHO the new and highly gorgeous Simply Elegant Gold Fibre does not develop an adequately hard surface with Premiere, the velvety surface shows trivial fingernail swipes the same as do matte papers. But with some d-max and highlight compromises it takes water based coating pretty well. Those water coatings increase the gamuts of both SR and Gold Fib in mid range greens and blues to a remarkable extent. If you're shooting green parrots and jungles against blue skies, there's your ticket.
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your posts are like infotainment to me!
Have you ever tried Pictorico PGHG? Closest look to Cibachrome in the inkjet world.
Mike
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Pictorico was on my list of papers to try during this relative down time. However...
1. 7.3 mils would be less than kink resistant in my so-called workshop, and would probably show eggshell with most types of mounting.
2. 42" wide rolls?
3. Expensive.
So what am I really missing here? Stop messing with my head, Mike! ;)
Optional reading: I printed lots of Cibachome in the 70's. Besides environmental-disaster chemistry is was way too contrasty for just any transparency, you either needed to shoot in very low contrast situations outdoors, or light to about an 8:1 ratio in your studio, or really like blocked up shadows and highlights. It allowed you to make reversal prints in three tank dip&dunk processors originally intended for type-C. But it was colorful for those shades that happened to fall within its dynamic range. Check out Fatali's site.
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The public loved 'em. It was on of my best shows ever. The public mainly buys the image without fussing about highlights and d-max and surface qualities. They go for the image, and if it's local interest they may buy it as their first art purchase, ever. My main reason for the Silver Rag thing is:
1. To intimidate other photographers.
2. For situations where I am competing with metallic prints and other paradigms meant to appeal to K-mart shoppers. Silver Rag can easily blow that stuff away.
Silver Rag is the original "silver print" look-alike from some years ago. It's now morphed into something more like a very low frequency luster surface on a 15 mil substrate that has lovable handling characteristics to those of us who mount our prints. Looks terrific, I really like the way it resolves problematic reflections coming from eye-level light sources. Costs a lot, but worth it both for appearance and mechanical reasons, although those who are into feeling prints may be disappointed. To be fair: when not coated SR has relatively high bronzing and there are other more recent papers that are slightly better in that regard. But when properly coated, Premiere has not a hint of bronzing or hazy masking of any kind.
SR has mucho gamut. The gamut hulls of Gold Fibre and Silver Rag overlay each other almost perfectly, with very impressive d-max's and very similar tonality. The difference is, SR takes coating much better, and develops a very hard scratch, fingernail, and pizza-sauce proof surface with just 3 light coats of Premier Art Print Shield, which also lowers the d-max to around L= 1.0 and almost makes the surface disappear except for the reflections. Very pretty, very high gloss that does not look tacky.
IMHO the new and highly gorgeous Simply Elegant Gold Fibre does not develop an adequately hard surface with Premiere, the velvety surface shows trivial fingernail swipes the same as do matte papers. But with some d-max and highlight compromises it takes water based coating pretty well. Those water coatings increase the gamuts of both SR and Gold Fib in mid range greens and blues to a remarkable extent. If you're shooting green parrots and jungles against blue skies, there's your ticket.
Bill T.,
Are you referring to Museo Silver Rag Fine Art Paper 300gsm
Thanks for all your help on here... Also I like your #1 reason.
Darren
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Yes that's the paper, I buy it from itsupplies.com. Unfortunately, other photographers are sometimes NOT intimidated for reasons I do not understand.
I would like to stress that there are other papers available with as much gamut and even less bronzing issues. But without a doubt SR makes gorgeous glossy print that perhaps have a feel with their roots more in painting than in woohoo metallic photos. When properly coated the surface of SR has very nice randomized surface that invokes the mojo of a fine art paper. The surface also resolves reflections from eye level sources as a randomized sea of widely spaced stars that still allow a sense of contrast in the print underneath, as opposed to the more smoggy effects from many glossy, semigloss, and pearl paper surfaces. It's all about competition on gallery walls, where you have little or no control over placement.
Its latest incarnation is only 15 mils thick, which makes it easy to handle and mount, while making it just heavy enough to avoid kinks from normal shop abuse. It develops a surface with 3 light-to-moderate coats of Premier Art Print Shield that is as resistant to scratches and abrasion marks as a properly coated canvas, it's the only glossy I have tried that is as rugged in that sense. BTW, Premier can rot your brain. Maybe not the best choice if "feel in the hand" is important to you. It's also very expensive, but I'm willing to pay if only for the reflection and coating qualities which are important to me but maybe not to others.