Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: Harald L on October 20, 2014, 12:02:11 pm
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Endless attempts to archive equality show first results ;D
Harald
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Neat shot, Harlem. But you mean "sex," not "gender." Gender applies to language. Sex applies to people -- happily in many varied ways. In recent years the left has made a brave attempt to confuse the two words, and for now they're succeeding. But in the long run the words need to be distinct, so eventually either the confusion will go away or we'll have to come up with a new word to replace "gender."
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Neat shot, Harlem. But you mean "sex," not "gender." Gender applies to language. Sex applies to people -- happily in many varied ways. In recent years the left has made a brave attempt to confuse the two words, and for now they're succeeding. But in the long run the words need to be distinct, so eventually either the confusion will go away or we'll have to come up with a new word to replace "gender."
Thank you for clarifying, Russ. Indeed, in Germany we have a lot of confusion using the word "gender" but this doesn't matter because the confusion we cause by this discussion at all is not limited to this word.
Harald
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Endless attempts to archive equality show first results ;D
Harald
I wish we could indeed aRchive [sic] the question of gender "equality", as we are not equal nor should we ever be. ;)
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I wish we could indeed aRchive [sic] the question of gender "equality", as we are not equal nor should we ever be. ;)
Another example of how the auto-correction of Safari will lead us to a better world.
Harald
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Neat shot, Harlem. But you mean "sex," not "gender."
in the age of total corporate/state control you might want to use the word "gender" in your browser... big brother is watching what you are typing/looking @
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Neat shot, Harlem. But you mean "sex," not "gender." Gender applies to language. Sex applies to people -- happily in many varied ways. In recent years the left has made a brave attempt to confuse the two words, and for now they're succeeding. But in the long run the words need to be distinct, so eventually either the confusion will go away or we'll have to come up with a new word to replace "gender."
The distinction between gender and sex has absolutely nothing to do with being left-wing or right-wing. From the World Health Organization (http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/):
"Sex" refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women.
"Gender" refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women.
To put it another way:
"Male" and "female" are sex categories, while "masculine" and "feminine" are gender categories.
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I wish we could indeed aRchive [sic] the question of gender "equality", as we are not equal nor should we ever be. ;)
Quite, as my management committee of an assortment of wives, daughters and cats never fail to remind me.
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The distinction between gender and sex has absolutely nothing to do with being left-wing or right-wing. From the World Health Organization (http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/):
in RSL's mind (I bet) the mere reference to "World"-anything to substantiate your opinion qualifies you as a left-winger...
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The real reason "sex" is replaced with "gender" is much simpler. On too many forms and questionnaires that contained that question ("sex") the answer given, instead of "M" or "F," was: YES! ;)
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The distinction between gender and sex has absolutely nothing to do with being left-wing or right-wing. From the World Health Organization (http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/):...
And that is a proof because...?
Gender, in the sense WHO is using it, is a mid-20th century invention. Guess by whom?
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Slobodan's right on the money. Until left-wing WHO got into the act the standard definition of "gender" was
"A grammatical category in inflected languages governing the agreement between nouns and pronouns and adjectives; in some languages it is quite arbitrary but in Indo-European languages it is usually based on sex or animateness."
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The real reason "sex" is replaced with "gender" is much simpler. On too many forms and questionnaires that contained that question ("sex") the answer given, instead of "M" or "F," was: YES! ;)
I really lament the lack of good manners in the modern world.
Have those questionnaire respondents never heard of the word "please"?
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Relax everybody, the meanings of words change all the time, they always have. It's not a left-wing (or any other wing) conspiracy.
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Relax everybody, the meanings of words change all the time, they always have. It's not a left-wing (or any other wing) conspiracy.
Sure they change, but we are discussing here why, how, and by whom. Not a conspiracy (as it implies something clandestine), but a result of a deliberate, concerted, public effort by numerous groups that can be loosely combined into "left-wing" (PC nuts, feminists, progressives, liberals, loony left, etc.)
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Speaking of gender (or is it sex?), I've always been amused by the German language's treatment of those common table accessories: knife, fork, and spoon.
Das Messer (neuter), die Gabel (feminine), der Löffel (masculine).
Sexy, huh?
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... spoon.
... der Löffel (masculine).
Sexy, huh?
And so gay ;)
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Anderseits, denke ich an Schraubenvater und Schraubenmutter…
http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Schraubenmutter
Beste grüsse
Erich (AKA ErikKaffehr)
Speaking of gender (or is it sex?), I've always been amused by the German language's treatment of those common table accessories: knife, fork, and spoon.
Das Messer (neuter), die Gabel (feminine), der Löffel (masculine).
Sexy, huh?
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Speaking of gender (or is it sex?), I've always been amused by the German language's treatment of those common table accessories: knife, fork, and spoon.
Das Messer (neuter), die Gabel (feminine), der Löffel (masculine).
Sexy, huh?
When I was a young electrician most German craftsmen were amused by the english words for Stecker and Buchse: male and female. Does things have sex?!?
Harald
PS: Of course Der Stecker, Die Buchse, Germans are not idiots at all.
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Sure they change, but we are discussing here why, how, and by whom. Not a conspiracy (as it implies something clandestine), but a result of a deliberate, concerted, public effort by numerous groups that can be loosely combined into "left-wing" (PC nuts, feminists, progressives, liberals, loony left, etc.)
This is ridiculous. Where did you get this idea from - Glenn Beck?
Thanks to advances in science, we now have a much better idea about the biological basis of sex in mammals, including human beings, than we did a century ago. To take one example at random: we now know that some female athletes have physical attributes we normally associate with being male that give them a performance advantage on the track. That's to do with sex. That's biological. We also have a better idea of cultural diversity and what it entails than a century ago too. When a male does penile subincision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penile_subincision), he's doing because his culture tells him it's a good thing to do. His sex is male but the way he understands how to be a proper man (his gender role) is different from you and me.
In short, in working through things like this, last century researchers found it helpful to distinguish sex from gender. Nowadays we take it for granted that sex and gender are as different as biology and culture, simply because it makes so much sense.
Finally, most of the people who did this primary research were neither women nor feminists, because as we all know, women in almost all countries had their access to practicing science curtailed until not that many generations ago.
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"Gender" has nothing whatever to do with the biological basis of sex in mammals, Damon. It has only to do with grammar in inflected languages. If WHO wants a word to distinguish between sex and sexual roles, let it come up with a new one instead of debasing a perfectly good and useful word.
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I'm at the point where I've just tuned out a lot of this feminism/sex/gender stuff. I think it's probably best to just let other people squabble over it and the rest of us can get on with hyperventilating about Ebola or dealing with more urgent matters.
My feminist friend had a birthday last week and I had no idea what I should get her as a present, so I got her what would make her happy.
Nothing.
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... Nowadays we take it for granted that sex and gender are as different as biology and culture...
Finally, most of the people who did this primary research were neither women nor feminists...
Some might take it for granted, some do not.
The attempt to divorce culture from biology is quintessentially feminist, quite visible in the internal split in the so-called "third-wave feminism [that] also contains internal debates between difference feminists, who believe that there are important differences between the sexes, and those who believe that there are no inherent differences between the sexes and contend that gender roles are due to social conditioning. (Wikipedia)
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Really?
21 replies constituting a semantics debate in response to a photograph with an amusing title? I don't get it...
???
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It is an amusing title, you said it 😊
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Women are routinely paid less for doing the same work. Women are routinely under represented in most democratic country's parliaments. Women are almost non-existent on web forums. LULA being somewhat better than most. But almost all the other forums I visit have zero female participation. This is regarding music, camera, video forums. A couple of the music forums are more like macho locker rooms, and I only reluctantly go there to keep abreast of the latest news and technology.
These are all things I would LOVE to see change. And I'm a middle aged, white bloke.
Women are in equal number of our society. Women are just as skilled, knowledgeable and interesting as men. Women have a perspective and view I would like to hear.
Why is it they are absent or often not taking equal part?
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Seriously!?
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"Gender" has nothing whatever to do with the biological basis of sex in mammals, Damon. It has only to do with grammar in inflected languages. If WHO wants a word to distinguish between sex and sexual roles, let it come up with a new one instead of debasing a perfectly good and useful word.
Russ, gender is not the same as biological sex, correct. You are welcome to make your argument that gender is purely about language if you like. You may even be able to rustle up an obscure scholar or two who agrees with you. But meanwhile practically the entire scientific and social scientific community has a different conception than the one you believe in. It's not very complicated. Sex refers to biological aspects, and gender to cultural aspects. That's all.
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Women are routinely paid less for doing the same work. Women are routinely under represented in most democratic country's parliaments. Women are almost non-existent on web forums. LULA being somewhat better than most. But almost all the other forums I visit have zero female participation. This is regarding music, camera, video forums. A couple of the music forums are more like macho locker rooms, and I only reluctantly go there to keep abreast of the latest news and technology.
These are all things I would LOVE to see change. And I'm a middle aged, white bloke.
Women are in equal number of our society. Women are just as skilled, knowledgeable and interesting as men. Women have a perspective and view I would like to hear.
Why is it they are absent or often not taking equal part?
I'm a middle aged white bloke too and I would say there are two reasons not many women have time for these forums. Firstly - they probably have better things to do like looking after the kids or cleaning the house (that is true but also said with a smile). Or even out taking photographs.
Secondly there are a lot of bullies on forums such as this - especially when women move into male dominated subjects like technology and don't just stick to talking about pictures. Most of the recipients of bulling of course are other men.
And as a middle aged guy I have grown up understanding gender in the use Damon has suggested - it's too late Russ for the WHO or anyone else to come up with a new word, the word is 'gender' for most of us - we can understand the distinction between gender when applied to language and when applied to cultural differences. The original picture and title made perfect sense to me.
Jim
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And as a middle aged guy I have grown up understanding gender in the use Damon has suggested - it's too late Russ for the WHO or anyone else to come up with a new word, the word is 'gender' for most of us - we can understand the distinction between gender when applied to language and when applied to cultural differences. The original picture and title made perfect sense to me.
Bingo. Context-sensitive connotation, it has always been this way.
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... almost all the other forums I visit have zero female participation. This is regarding music, camera, video forums...
May I then suggest you migrate over to scrapbook, crochet, quilting, etc. forums to rectify this outrageous injustice? ;)
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Women are almost non-existent on web forums.
Ideally, web forums are about exchanging information, and often are. Many threads here on LULA are exactly that. But the free-form general topic threads often degenerate into guys scoring points. This is probably a remnant of the savannah herding genes where the bucks butt heads so they can score with all the females in the herd. It's primeval and basically emotional. I've been hanging around guys my whole life and when they get together in a group, dominance games usually emerge because they think it will help them get laid. By and large women find this boring, I believe.
Watch. Someone is going to take the above nonsense about herding genes seriously. It was tongue-in-cheek, guys, calm yourselves. :)
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I have absolutely no objection to new words joining the language. English has been accepting new words since beyond recorded history. But I DO have an objection to useful words and terms being corrupted through ignorance. I'll agree that there's no turning back on "gender." Ignorance has corrupted it beyond reprieve. It's like the term "begs the question," which nobody nowadays seems to understand in its original meaning.
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I'm a middle aged white bloke too and I would say there are two reasons not many women have time for these forums. [...] Secondly there are a lot of bullies on forums such as this - especially when women move into male dominated subjects like technology and don't just stick to talking about pictures. Most of the recipients of bulling of course are other men.
[/small diversion]
So true ... back in earlier days (as a lurker) on dpreview I remember there was indeed one woman who consistently received that sort of treatment from other (male) overbearing and needlessly condescending forum members. Time and time again it happened, they would slowly try to 'educate' her, each time she'd come back with yet another question until each time it finally left them truly punctured.
Of course, she chose which threads to join with appropriate guile, but it was fun to watch ...
Anyone here heard of Julia ?
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... guys scoring points. This is probably a remnant of the savannah herding genes where the bucks butt heads so they can score with all the females in the herd. It's primeval and basically emotional... dominance games usually emerge because they think it will help them get laid. By and large women find this boring, I believe.
Watch. Someone is going to take the above nonsense about herding genes seriously. It was tongue-in-cheek, guys, calm yourselves. :)
Ok, let me be that someone ;)
You believe women find it boring because...? Because you succumbed to societal/cultural pressure to be politically correct? Well, you might "believe" so, but the science, so dear to our friend Damon's heart, says otherwise:
Guys WILL get laid if they act more masculine. (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-may-prefer-masculine-men-for-a-fling-but-only-when-they-are-ovulating/) The caveat is that the research at UCLA refers to ovulation period. Turns out, decades of feminist and leftist cultural brainwashing stands no chance when it comes to biology. ;)
P.S. Did I just score a point? ;D
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Bingo!
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Time to leaven the atmosphere. Bessa presents the new postmen uniform.
(http://harlempix.com/wp-content/gallery/hockenheim/DST15506.jpg)
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Now THERE'S gender or sex, whatever you want to call it.
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... Bessa presents the new postmen uniform.
I wish my postman would look like that (ahm, postwoman?).
Funny, I initially read your "postmen" to mean "post-men," as in "apocalyptic world in which feminists got rid of men" You scared me, bro! ;D
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Funny how no one ever posts 'sexy' pictures of men in these threads.
That would be a refreshing change at least. But why break with tradition.
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Guys WILL get laid if they act more masculine. (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-may-prefer-masculine-men-for-a-fling-but-only-when-they-are-ovulating/) The caveat is that the research at UCLA refers to ovulation period. Turns out, decades of feminist and leftist cultural brainwashing stands no chance when it comes to biology. ;)
Are you equating boorish online behaviour with "maleness"? :)
Please don't find any studies that show that obnoxious guys online get laid more than others, that would be way too depressing.
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Funny how no one ever posts 'sexy' pictures of men in these threads.
That would be a refreshing change at least. But why break with tradition.
My gender hinders me to distinguish a sexy man but what do you think about this guy? 8)
(http://harlempix.com/wp-content/gallery/hockenheim/DST15500.jpg)
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Guys WILL get laid if they act more masculine. (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-may-prefer-masculine-men-for-a-fling-but-only-when-they-are-ovulating/)
"Nice guys finish last." - Billy Joe Armstrong
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Funny how no one ever posts 'sexy' pictures of men in these threads.
That would be a refreshing change at least. But why break with tradition.
If you like tattoos, piercings etc.....
.
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Jeremy's post demonstrates why no one ever posts "sexy" pictures of men. There aren't any.
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Jeremy's post demonstrates why no one ever posts "sexy" pictures of men. There aren't any.
You obviously don't like tattoos or piercing. Lots of women do though.
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How about if they work out?
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As I said, there aren't any.
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My gender hinders me to distinguish a sexy man but what do you think about this guy? 8)
(http://harlempix.com/wp-content/gallery/hockenheim/DST15500.jpg)
What guy? ;)
Jeremy
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Funny how no one ever posts 'sexy' pictures of men in these threads.
That would be a refreshing change at least. But why break with tradition.
The last time I did this on this site, my photo got censored, so I'm sorry, I can not post any more images of attractive males......or transgenders. ;)
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The last time I did this on this site, my photo got censored, so I'm sorry, I can not post any more images of attractive males......or transgenders. ;)
Ray, I think we're talking sexy pictures - not porn...... ;D
Jim
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Ray, I think we're talking sexy pictures - not porn...... ;D
Jim
Is that what transgender means? I never realized that. ;)
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The real reason "sex" is replaced with "gender" is much simpler. On too many forms and questionnaires that contained that question ("sex") the answer given, instead of "M" or "F," was: YES! ;)
Or perhaps "once in a while <g>."
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Or perhaps "once in a while <g>."
Right... forget about "same-sex marriage"... how about some-sex marriage? ;)
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Funny how no one ever posts 'sexy' pictures of men in these threads.
That would be a refreshing change at least. But why break with tradition.
We all have our cravings. I understand that. It's human, So, as a fellow forum member, I'll be happy to help you with yours (and still stay within photography theme):
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Are you equating boorish online behaviour with "maleness"? :)
Please don't find any studies that show that obnoxious guys online get laid more than others, that would be way too depressing.
No, but I have another study that proves, from a different angle, that guys will get laid MORE if they act more masculine:
"A study by sociologists at the University of Washington (http://www.washington.edu/news/2013/01/29/more-sex-for-married-couples-with-traditional-divisions-of-housework/) found that couples who follow traditional gender roles around the house – wives doing the cooking, cleaning and shopping; men doing the DIY and fettling the car – reported greater sexual frequency."
The above quote is from another article on the subject, well written and humorous, on DIY and manliness:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11186150/DIY-is-in-decline-because-todays-men-are-too-soft.html