Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Jeff-Grant on October 08, 2014, 05:18:11 pm
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I have been printing cards for a few years using a 3800 and, lately, a 3880. I started out with Museo Artist cards and have recently been using Photo Rag Baryta which I have cut and scored for a 5x7 card. I am faced with an ongoing precision problem. On cards, a millimetre matters a lot. It stands out like a sore thumb, and it seems like the Epson printers aren't capable of the level of precision and repeatability necessary. Sometimes, it all works perfectly. Other times, it's all over the place. I've tried using the sheet feeder with varying amounts of cards in the hopper, and the rear feeder is also problematic as the cards are really too small to ensure an accurate loading.
If I could find a printer that worked as I need with with high quality output, I'd buy it. If I could find someone in Australia who could cut and score cards for me, I would print on A2 and let them do it. If I could find a device that I could print and score my own cards with, I'd buy it. In the meantime, I continue to struggle with my present setup.
I'm hoping that someone may have faced and solved the same issue.
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I'm replying specifically because I have NEVER had the same issue...I, too, am using a 3880, but have always used MOAB Entradalopes - pre-cut and scored and gorgeous paper (if you like matte).
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Thanks Terry. At this point, I'll try anything. I have had the problem with both Museo and Photo Rag Baryta. I wonder if the issue is environmental. I live in a humid area. The Entradalopes are only 190GSM whereas the PRB is 255. I would expect the heavier paper to be less subject to the problem.
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Further to my own question, I thought that it might be worth trying a smaller printer so I rang Epson Australia to ask about an Artisan 1430. They have no showroom and they have no idea where you might actually see one in the flesh. Their suggestion is to ring dealers. I tried a few and found that they either don't have one or have one that it is in a box and no you can't try it out.
Thanks for nothing Epson.
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Well there goes a good idea. I thought that I would try Entradalopes. Went to IT Supplies site and ordered. Postage was only $7.50 which looked extremely cheap. This morning I was advised that it was really $60. Back to the drawing board, I go.
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Well there goes a good idea. I thought that I would try Entradalopes. Went to IT Supplies site and ordered. Postage was only $7.50 which looked extremely cheap. This morning I was advised that it was really $60. Back to the drawing board, I go.
Try Red River paper
http://www.redrivercatalog.com/cardshop/index.htm
Ooops....just noticed your in Australia....
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I have bought from Red River before. They are reasonable on postage and will send via USPS. I was only after the Moab paper on a previous recommendation.
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I print Museo cards on a 3880 using LR and the sheet feeder though I feed cards in one at a time (I don't do a large volume of them as it's really not all that profitable given the price point I can get for them). Once I got the LR print template set up to get the correct margins I've not encountered any problems.
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Thanks Alan. I encountered the same problem with single cards on different paper, I'll try again on this type.
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For Aussie users I can't recommend Giclee Media Supplies highly enough. http://gicleemedia.com.au/gms43/home.php
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I've had mixed results with them, disinterested one day great the next.
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I usually print on A2, double-sided media, then rotatrim, then score. Epson Warm Press Natural is my favorite. Then spray with Print Shield.
It is a ton of trouble, and I've done up to 150 5"x7" cards this way, but man, they really are Fine Art Cards in the true sense.
Thankfully these cards are just family greeting cards - the charge to make money on them would need to be stupid high.
John Caldwell
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Thanks John. I know what you mean about fine art. This is a also a labour of love for an artist friend. That and a wife with an eagle eye for precision sets a high bar. I haven't looked at Rotatrim. I'm assuming that it's not cheap. I'm also a bit of a klutz so wonder how easy it is. If it were easy, A2 would be the way to go.
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I print cards regularly for sale using my 3880. Started out with the Museo product but after a bad batch of envelopes (no glue) switched to Moab Entrada stock which I can get at a reasonable price in Western Canada.
I've created a lightroom template and once the card is set up and also with a customized name plate on the back, title, file #, website and e-mail I create a saved print so that I can re-print it exactly when it is time to replenish stock.
I use the standard sheet feeder. Occasional it will grab more than one sheet but so far no damage to the printer, although running a cleaning sheet is sometimes necessary.
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Thanks Rusty. I've just tried loading single cards and it's looking good. The reason I hadn't tried it before is that it had a high failure rate on the 3800.
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Jeff,
Have you tried getting the cards printed at one of the labs ?
I've seen some great stuff out of Fuji machines at a couple of places around Sydney, though I will admit, it's been a while.
I knew a guy a few years back who made 5x7 photo cards with lovely borders that way.
Just a thought.
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Thanks David, lab prints wouldn't cut it, I'm afraid. These cards are scored and folded 5x7. I spend a lot of time getting the right paper and preparing the prints. I'm using 255GSM baryta paper. It's a major undertaking, which I do enjoy, but it has its moments.
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Jeff, By rotary trimmer I happen to mean the Dahle cutters we have. I've found them a very worthy investment, simply because they are used for lots of tasks aside from cards. We own a 24" and a 48" model. An example here:
http://www.dahle-machines.com/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwh96hBRCnsefbvZrKrpcBEiQAF7oMdPK8inkpuQfA-HJWkuH2BwgxltEvqpEDHa1mVAeNozUaAgzM8P8HAQ
This is the scoring table I happen to use, also a good investment:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004JKEU4Y/ref=pdp_new_dp_review
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I've had decent success feeding the Moab stock into a 3880 (about ten sheets at a time in the rear feeder), but I'm having two problems with that. The big problem is that the Moab paper is extremely expensive, and I can't sell the cards for enough to really make it worthwhile (especially wholesale). I'm also moving to a 7900, and I CERTAINLY can't sell the cards for enough to make it worth dropping them into a 7900 one at a time. My present thought is to run cards on roll paper (anything thick enough, much of which is MUCH cheaper than pre-scored Entrada), then get a print shop to cut and score them on their big equipment (in batches of, say, 250). Of course, if I had to run off a small batch, I'd trim them on a Rotatrim and score them on a straightedge.
I had also wondered about two other ideas. One is a dedicated card printer - something with only an 8" carriage, but a robust paper feed that would take more than 10 cards at a time. I haven't been able to locate anything that has more than 4 colors (it doesn't need to be 11, but I'd like to use at least a 6 color printer) with a serious paper feed and decent-sized cartridges. Someone mentioned a few particular lasers that had decent color on another thread, and a laser would be attractive because it uses much more reasonably priced stock. Of course, I could also cut the stock cost by using Red River instead of Moab, but I've never seen a sample of the Red River stock, and it's an online-only item with a single source (Red River directly) - I have occasionally picked up the Moab locally if I need a few extras, and there are multiple online sources, which is nice if someone is out of stock.
The second is having someone else print the cards (on an Indigo or some other big digital press). Every source of this type of printing I've found gives price breaks based on quantity of the SAME IMAGE. The problem is that, while I may print 250 or even 500 cards at a time, I sell assortments, so I would do 10 each of 25 designs. Most print shops count that as 25 orders of 10 cards (although, with an Indigo, which is just a super-size inkjet, it actually doesn't matter, and they COULD price it as one order of 250 cards, because the cutter and other setup is the same). If anyone knows of a good print shop that takes advantage of the flexibility of the digital press in their pricing, I'd love to know about it.
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I have made perhaps 1000 cards with my Epson 9900 using 17" roll Epson Cold Press paper. Card size is 4.25" x 5.5" folded or 8.5" x 5.5" unfolded. So the 17" wide roll paper contains precisely 2 cards side by side. Lightroom works easily to print 10+ cards at a time. Then I de-curl them by reversely wrapping on a used 3" paper core. After overnight the cards become very flat. Final step is to trim them with my Rotatrim cutter. Cost of printing is under $1 per card. My client has been very satisfied. Her watercolor painting reproduced on Epson cold press paper turned out very very well.
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John,
Thanks for the links. I may end up going that way. It's a load of cash for small runs but, with my current failure rate, may be ok. Currently, I'm getting my paper cut and scored by Online Paper in the UK because I couldn't find anyone in Australia who would do it. Getting a couple of boxes of A2 to Australia isn't cheap.
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Thanks Dan. My run is only about 60 cards. I thought of using a dedicated printer, hence the other post about the Epson Artisan 1430 but I can't try one and I'm not going to lay out $300 if it doesn't solve the problem. The 1430 is profilable and will even take a CIS system. From what I've read it's quite acceptable.
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Thanks LeiMeng, it's great to know how other folks are solving the problem.
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Today, I have printed over 60 cards without a single issue - same paper, same file, same printer. To my simple mind, all that is different is that today is humid while a few days ago when I was having all the issues it was quite dry. I am printing on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta which is a 315GSM paper and which occasionally grabs a couple of sheets but that is nothing compared to what was happening before. The recommended humidity range is 35-65%. Currently it is 88% courtesy of a North Easterly breeze blowing off the sea.
I'm hoping that I now have an answer. Thanks for all the advice and assistance.
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Jeff, Great that you are having better results. Regarding the HFA Photo Rag Baryta paper, are you printing double-sided? If not, does the "back" side of this paper lend itself to a card's inside surface, where one might want to inscribe with pen or pencil?
Many thanks,
John Caldwell
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Thanks John. I print text on the back side of the paper. It works well. I asked this question a while back about IGFS: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=90954.0 Following that I tried PRB and have stuck with it. I don't like light cards which flop and fall over. The heavier papers are great.