Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: David Anderson on September 30, 2014, 10:52:24 pm
-
There's a couple posts on the rumour sites about the possibility of a Mamiya 7 type medium format digital camera with the Sony 50MP sensor.
Depending on the price, I think a digital version of such a great camera could be pretty exciting.
One suggestion was it might be a fixed 35mm (Eqv) lens, but IMHO that would have to be pretty cheap to make it worth while.
I'm not sure how such a thing would compete against something like the 810 and a good 35mm lens unless it was a bit of a bargain.
Maybe less than 5K ?
Would you buy one ?
-
Hum, tough call.
I would for sure consider it, not sure I would end up buying one. It would probably depend on the size of the body and AF performance. It is really compact with a killer AF then perhaps because that would make it the perfect street camera.
Now, listening to the growing complains in Japan about dust issues with the Sony R1X series, I am not sure I would buy such an integrated camera from Sony right away, at least not until the dust settles.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
Hi,
No, I would not. No fixed lens camera for me.
Now, the Mamiya 7 has exchangable lens. Mirrorless MF makes a lot of sense.
Best regards
Erik
There's a couple posts on the rumour sites about the possibility of a Mamiya 7 type medium format digital camera with the Sony 50MP sensor.
Depending on the price, I think a digital version of such a great camera could be pretty exciting.
One suggestion was it might be a fixed 35mm (Eqv) lens, but IMHO that would have to be pretty cheap to make it worth while.
I'm not sure how such a thing would compete against something like the 810 and a good 35mm lens unless it was a bit of a bargain.
Maybe less than 5K ?
Would you buy one ?
-
Now, listening to the growing complains in Japan about dust issues with the Sony R1X series ...
That I hadn't heard before - how bad are the complaints (is it a Nikon 610 style issue - yet) ?
Back to he OP's question .. yes, I would certainly have a 'close look' but I don't think that a 35mm equivalent would be the right choice. A 50mm makes more sense if coupled to a 50MP sensor for two reasons:
(1) A 2 or 3 shot stitch will easily get you to the AOV of a 35mm. With the stitching options today, that makes it a very real alternative for the landscape shooter particularly on a high MP cam (2) The extra MP also gives you good 'crop' flexibility so it's good for portrait and standard aov shots.
-
One suggestion was it might be a fixed 35mm (Eqv) lens, but IMHO that would have to be pretty cheap to make it worth while.
I'm not sure how such a thing would compete against something like the 810 and a good 35mm lens unless it was a bit of a bargain.
Maybe less than 5K ?
Sony pricing is actually relatively easy to predict, they always extrapolate from the competition. The RX1 was 3K at its start, which was the price of competing full frame cameras at the time. You just got the fixed 35mm for free, but you had to pay an extra 400 for the viewfinder.
I would expect a MF-RX1 to cost the same as the Pentax 645Z: 9K. You will get a 50mm (35mm equivalent) for free with a Zeiss tag. Expect "accessories" to cost about 1000.
The RX1 is a great little camera, BTW.
-
I would be surprised if the price were less than $5K given the price tag of the RX1.
I believe jerome_m would probably be spot on with the price.
If it were less than $5K it would be hugely successful in my opinion, even if it were fixed lens.
Fuji is also a company who could pull this off and the same rumors have been surfacing regularly.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr3-rumor-about-a-medium-format-sony-surfaces-again/
http://www.cameraegg.org/nikon-and-sony-will-show-medium-format-cameras-at-photoplus-expo/
-
Hi,
Phase One owns Mamiya, so a digital Mamiya may come from Phase. Not a bad idea, except Mamiya is 6x7, to large frame for the 44x33 mm sensor. New lenses would be needed.
Sony could make an A7 on steroids. Would be nice but would of course need a new mount, probably. I would consider to buy such a camera. It would be pretty perfect as a straight camera but also be adopted to view cameras.
Best regards
Erik
There's a couple posts on the rumour sites about the possibility of a Mamiya 7 type medium format digital camera with the Sony 50MP sensor.
Depending on the price, I think a digital version of such a great camera could be pretty exciting.
One suggestion was it might be a fixed 35mm (Eqv) lens, but IMHO that would have to be pretty cheap to make it worth while.
I'm not sure how such a thing would compete against something like the 810 and a good 35mm lens unless it was a bit of a bargain.
Maybe less than 5K ?
Would you buy one ?
-
Would be nice but would of course need a new mount,
Sony needs a new mount like most of us need another R soul.... ;D :o
-
Sony could make an A7 on steroids. Would be nice but would of course need a new mount, probably. I would consider to buy such a camera. It would be pretty perfect as a straight camera but also be adopted to view cameras.
I know: similar to an A7, but with a MF sensor. New mount, but with adapters for major MF lens lines, just like what Leica is selling to adapt Hasselblad H lenses to the Leica S mount. And it should cost 5K, tops.
(...sounds of unicorns playing in a flower field...)
-
Sony needs a new mount like most of us need another R soul.... ;D :o
And I suggest they also call it an alpha camera to avoid confusion... :)
-
Hi,
You know, quite possible. Almost zero development cost, other companies make adapters and lenses. Pretty much like the A7/A7r was introduced using a single lens.
My guess is that the EF mount is to narrow for MFD so I guess a new mount is needed.
Just to add, Sony only has two mounts and four lens lines. This is similar to Canon, EF-mount in two variants full frame and APS-C and EF-M mount, although they don't have EF-M mount lenses.
Best regards
Erik
I know: similar to an A7, but with a MF sensor. New mount, but with adapters for major MF lens lines, just like what Leica is selling to adapt Hasselblad H lenses to the Leica S mount. And it should cost 5K, tops.
(...sounds of unicorns playing in a flower field...)
-
You know, quite possible. Almost zero development cost, other companies make adapters and lenses. Pretty much like the A7/A7r was introduced using a single lens.
Technically yes. Sony could probably design such a camera within 6 months.
(...sounds of unicorns playing in a flower field, with rainbows...)
-
I would love a Mamiya MF digital. Those Mamiya 7 lenses are out of this world. They will probably have to replace the 50 and the 43 (biogon designs), and throw in one or two wider angles in retrofocus design, but the 65, the 80, and the 150 are incredibly sharp lenses waiting for a digital back. Even the biogon types may work on a cropped sensor. Don't know whether they keep the mount though. But in case they do I'm in. A mirrorless MF design would make perfect sense to me.
-
Hi,
Yes, all right. Ask Phase One nicely and your dream may come true. I would say that it is technically feasible, but in the real world it is the bean counters who decide.
On the other hand bean counters don't decide everything, that is the reason we don't sit in a cave counting beans.
Best regards
Erik
I would love a Mamiya MF digital. Those Mamiya 7 lenses are out of this world. They will probably have to replace the 50 and the 43 (biogon designs), and throw in one or two wider angles in retrofocus design, but the 65, the 80, and the 150 are incredibly sharp lenses waiting for a digital back. Even the biogon types may work on a cropped sensor. Don't know whether they keep the mount though. But in case they do I'm in. A mirrorless MF design would make perfect sense to me.
-
I think if it is Phase we already know the price: $30K.
Because you're worth it ;)
As for beans, they make me ...
BTW, there have been recurrent rumours of Hassy bringing back the Hpan in digital form. It's clear that there will be a whole crop of these cameras now that larger CMOS sensors are going mainstream on mainstream fabs. At some point much more of the current fab capacity will be available to make sensors, which command a high price, as logic switches to newer factories that can do smaller features.
Edmund
Hi,
Phase One owns Mamiya, so a digital Mamiya may come from Phase. Not a bad idea, except Mamiya is 6x7, to large frame for the 44x33 mm sensor. New lenses would be needed.
Sony could make an A7 on steroids. Would be nice but would of course need a new mount, probably. I would consider to buy such a camera. It would be pretty perfect as a straight camera but also be adopted to view cameras.
Best regards
Erik
-
I think if it is Phase we already know the price: $30K.
Only if it is associated with Mamiya Leaf, if it carries the name of Phase One it is a minimum of $35K... :)
If all the rumors are true there will be MF cameras of Canon, Nikon, Sony and Fuji all in the beginning of next year... yeah, right...
-
Only if it is associated with Mamiya Leaf, if it carries the name of Phase One it is a minimum of $35K... :)
If all the rumors are true there will be MF cameras of Canon, Nikon, Sony and Fuji all in the beginning of next year... yeah, right...
Well, it would be funny if the digital Xpan came out as ... a Sony.
RANUL (reverse Lunar) so to speak :)
Edmund
-
Phase One would be doing a very smart move releasing such a camera.
But I think if anyone can do it, it would be Sony.
No matter who makes it - I would welcome this (in case it has a bajonett mount and interchangeable lenses) extremely.
A short flange focal distance would open the concept to TS adapters and I can assure you all that in case the anyone does it we
at HCam/Hartblei will build this ASAP !
Regards
Stefan
-
Hi,
Phase One owns Mamiya, so a digital Mamiya may come from Phase. Not a bad idea, except Mamiya is 6x7, to large frame for the 44x33 mm sensor. New lenses would be needed.
Sony could make an A7 on steroids. Would be nice but would of course need a new mount, probably. I would consider to buy such a camera. It would be pretty perfect as a straight camera but also be adopted to view cameras.
Best regards
Erik
they should make a deal with hasselblad to use hasselblad H lenses. Even better, build a specialized focal reducer to get "full frame 645" on the crop sensor.
-
But I think if anyone can do it, it would be Sony.
I think the suggestion from the rumour site is that Sony will make the sensor, Mamiya the camera and Zeiss the lenses.
Happily ignoring the unicorns for a minute, I think a digital version of the 7II wouldn't be a great leap from what's already available from these companies.
-
There's a couple posts on the rumour sites about the possibility of a Mamiya 7 type medium format digital camera with the Sony 50MP sensor.
Depending on the price, I think a digital version of such a great camera could be pretty exciting.
One suggestion was it might be a fixed 35mm (Eqv) lens, but IMHO that would have to be pretty cheap to make it worth while.
I'm not sure how such a thing would compete against something like the 810 and a good 35mm lens unless it was a bit of a bargain.
Maybe less than 5K ?
Would you buy one ?
I am sure Sony can make one and sell one for $5k tomorrow if they wanted to. The technology is there. everything including a high quality EVF is VERY easy to implement in a MFDigital compact camera with Sony's 50mp sensor.
-
That rumour is my wildest photographic dream come true. I still take my Mamiya 6 out and fondle it lovingly every once in a while. Best. Camera. Ever. (for me). But then I remembered the Phase owns or has some major stake in Mamiya, and the dream turned to dust. Sony maybe??
- N.
-
Mamiya 6/7 have a well known focusing problem. The RF is not well sync with the lens. This seems a common problem with Japanese RFs, including the Konica 35mm. I got rid of all my non-Leica RF with inter changible lens. fujitsu's fixed lens RF 690 seemed fine, although I had neven happy with it.
Should be attractive if the new digital MF has fixed zoom lens, and make it mirrorless with EVF. I doubt you can find any satisfactory RF out of Leica.
-
Hi,
I wouldn't put to much interpretation in that rumor.
Clearly, such a camera could be built easily and would adapt to existing lenses. If it makes sense is another question, where I have doubts.
Best regards
Erik
I think the suggestion from the rumour site is that Sony will make the sensor, Mamiya the camera and Zeiss the lenses.
Happily ignoring the unicorns for a minute, I think a digital version of the 7II wouldn't be a great leap from what's already available from these companies.
-
Hi,
I wouldn't put to much interpretation in that rumor.
Clearly, such a camera could be built easily and would adapt to existing lenses. If it makes sense is another question, where I have doubts.
Best regards
Erik
I'm sure your doubts make sense :)
On the other hand, I think "digital rangefinder" is just another name for mirrorless ...
-
I would welcome such camera, but not with fixed lens. Interchangeable would make sense. I still use Mamiya 6 for it's portability pretty much on weekly basis.
They could squeeze all this tech into body of similar size. Sensor is smaller but you also need quite a lot of processing power for baby like this and somehow deal with heat produced by components. Battery could go into grip.
All they need is to release it with 3 lenses for start which would give you similar AoV (in 135 temrs) to: 28-50-90 - problem solved. And what would be nice cherry on top? Leaf shutter lenses ;)
-
28-90mm or 24-75mm equivalent is definitely the sweet spot. With the help of on camera lens compensation, a zoom should be able to offer very similar image quality to primes. But the primes would still have strong advantage on the lens aperure. It will mean the image render in terms of out of focusing and selective focusing.
An EVF mirrorless medium format, with 6x7 sensor? Hmm, I can make a print the size of a football field!
-
Some say there'll be two. And Sony has started to make curved sensors. And lenses add a lot of $$ to system development. So I am still hoping one of them is the Mamiya 7II with a curved Sony sensor and the old Mamiya 7 lens mount. If there is another one with new Zeiss lenses, another body, and the same Sony sensor, even better. But the Mamiya mount with the curved sensor and the old lenses would be for me. Perhaps they'll put IS on it this time around? Then there'd even be a sensible camera for the 210mm/8. Just dreaming. Those Mamiya 7 lenses don't need much of improvement :).
-
As much it would be lovely to just have a digital Mamiya 6/7, that's not going to happen. The focusing simply isn't precise enough for digital. If we get something, it will be clean-sheet, and essentially a MF mirrorless camera. That, however, may be plenty good in its own right.
On-sensor focusing and electronic first-curtain shutter would solve most of what ails MF digital. The results could be astonishing. Would be kind of a specialist amateur's camera, though, especially if fixed lens. Still, we can dream.
- N.
-
:'(
-
The focusing simply isn't precise enough for digital.
Maybe with a hybrid EVF/ Rangefinder ?
I would be happy with manual lenses with some of the focus aids available now like focus peaking and live view.
-
I do think it more likely than not that Sony will eventually use this chip themselves. But there's no guarantee, bc their various arms seem quite separate from one another, and they seem quite content making money making chips for others. Still, this is the crew who made the RX1. Someone at Sony has designs on weaponizing this amazing sensor in their own metal.
Fingers crossed.
- N.
-
Hi,
Sony is the largest vendor of image sensors in the world, by a wide margin. This also applies to CCD sensors.
So, making a sensor is probably seen as a business case and not necessarily connected to Sony's camera making business.
I would guess that making A7-type body and let the market deliver the lenses may make some sense.
Best regards
Erik
I do think it more likely than not that Sony will eventually use this chip themselves. But there's not guarantee, bc their various arms seem quite separate from one another, and they seem quite content making money making chips for others. Still, this is the crew who made the RX1. Someone at Sony has designs on weaponizing this amazing sensor in their own metal.
Fingers crossed.
- N.
-
One can make modest money from components, more money from complete systems - look at how much money Apple and Samsung are making from each iphone.
Edmund
-
One can make modest money from components, more money from complete systems - look at how much money Apple and Samsung are making from each iphone.
Edmund
Why does that argument not work with Phase One (components, mainly) and Hasselbald (until recently complete systems, mainly) ?
Yes I know what kind of components you mean but don't spoil the argument ;D
-
As much it would be lovely to just have a digital Mamiya 6/7, that's not going to happen. The focusing simply isn't precise enough for digital. If we get something, it will be clean-sheet, and essentially a MF mirrorless camera. That, however, may be plenty good in its own right.
On-sensor focusing and electronic first-curtain shutter would solve most of what ails MF digital. The results could be astonishing. Would be kind of a specialist amateur's camera, though, especially if fixed lens. Still, we can dream.
- N.
The rumor itself is quite strange, but if Zeiss is involved then there's a hoping that they would design lenses specifically for this sensor (or upcoming ones from the same breed) the same as they did with Loxia series. If I was reading the papers correctly, Zeiss designed them specifically for those sensors mentioning that there's quite thick layer on those sensors.
The size of M6/7 (Mamiya) could easily house large EVF and enough processing power (50mp is huge amount of data) and large battery to feed all the juice.
Me personally, I would prefer interchangeable system. After all, this isn't film and investing in fixed-lens digital medium format would be quite hard to justify, can do that with APS-C that are less than £1000 but MF would be probably north from £5000.