Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: geesbert on September 22, 2014, 03:59:19 pm
-
Just back from the dullest Photokina I ever went to.
I had the chance to handle both the Cambo Actus and the Arca F-unversalis. I can't make up my mind which one I do prefer.
- The Actus is a bit cheaper around 1700€ vs. 2300 for the Arca
- The camera is connected to the rear standard of the Actus by its lens mount, which makes rotating the camera easier, with the Arca one has to use Arca swiss's L-bracket, which i find a it cumbersome
- The Cambo uses a standard Arca style rail base, while the Arca uses their newer slimmer rail
- the Arca seems to be much nicer made, better scales, tighter movements, which probably break in quite nicely, better gears.
- the Arca can grow to a larger sensor format like medium format or larger, the actus is 35mm or smaller only
- Cambo has a website
difficult decision....
-
1. You didn't come by do say hello :P
2. Both cameras can take a digital back (Cambo had a prototype on their stand with one of our Credo 50's), making them a natural replacement for the old studio 5x4 rigs, especially when mated to one of the new CMOS backs...
Cheers
Yair
-
Get the Arca. You know you want to ;-)
-
Just back from the dullest Photokina I ever went to.
I had the chance to handle both the Cambo Actus and the Arca F-unversalis. I can't make up my mind which one I do prefer.
- The Actus is a bit cheaper around 1700€ vs. 2300 for the Arca
- The camera is connected to the rear standard of the Actus by its lens mount, which makes rotating the camera easier, with the Arca one has to use Arca swiss's L-bracket, which i find a it cumbersome
- The Cambo uses a standard Arca style rail base, while the Arca uses their newer slimmer rail
- the Arca seems to be much nicer made, better scales, tighter movements, which probably break in quite nicely, better gears.
- the Arca can grow to a larger sensor format like medium format or larger, the actus is 35mm or smaller only
- Cambo has a website
Arca has many websites:
- https://digitaltransitions.com/page/arca-swiss
https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/news/arca-swiss-shutter-dex-fc-cs
Just none from Arca :).
Cambo's on-display model for use with a DB was a prototype. So I wouldn't make a final decision about build quality from it. Both Arca and Cambo make good products.
Arca can take R mounted lenses (to share with an RM3Di, RL3Di, Factum, as well as the new Arca FP, CS, DEX, new Cloud and rail-sled. Cambo let me know that if it's physically possible (based on the size) to mount a lens which is in an Arca CS mount that they will support this configuration. This is great news for those who want electronic shutters as you could use them on either of these great bodies. Cambo is also using the same digital back adapter plate as with their Cambo tech cams (https://digitaltransitions.com/page/cambo-cameras), like the RS1250 and RS5000 so good news there as well.
Neither are shipping today. So you have some time to decide either way.
Photo East will be a good chance for US customers to see them. Shoot me an email ([email protected]) to arrange a private demo during the show, or stop by our booth during the show.
Let the battles begin indeed!
-
Isn't this Arca-Swiss: http://www.arca-swiss-magasin.com/ or is it "just" an Arca-Swiss dealer?
For buying stuff in Europe, this is a popular destination http://www.arca-shop.de/ but that is a dealer not Arca-Swiss themselves.
If you're going to use it with an A7r in the studio you could also look at Rollei X-Act 2, if just DHW sorts out their money issue... I think a studio view camera should have full back movements. In the field for landscape and architecture it's okay to limit movements, but as soon one is starting to shoot closeups one will notice that lacking back movements and having limited tilt/swing range is limiting. The whole idea of using a technical camera instead of just tilt-shift lenses on a standard DSLR I think is that composition is more flexible, and then one need to make sure that the tech cam you choose have the movements that indeed enhances the experience.
-
It looks like a dealer, all in French, but the title is Galarie-Photo magasin. However the contact e-mail does have the Arca-Swiss in the info. Also the fact they have a on-line cart makes me think that they are a dealer. But it's a start.
Rod Klukas, the US dealer also has a site with some info, it's not updated with the latest announcements, which I am sure will be done soon.
http://rodklukas.com/arca-swiss/ (http://rodklukas.com/arca-swiss/)
Back to the OP,
The L bracket mounting that Arca uses could be improved a bit, at least with some markings to help the user align and re-align the Sony A7R. Right now Arca supports Sony, Nikon and Canon DSLRs with the DSLR2 (M2) but the DSLR"s due to the mirror box can only use 90mm or longer lenses.
Mounting the Sony A7r, and getting it centered on the lens IMO takes the vast majority of the time. With some indices on the mount and L bracket, this process would be much faster.
Once the camera is mounted, the action gets very fast.
Paul
-
arca-swiss-magasin.com is the main french dealer, and the closest to A/S. You pass your order here and A/S fulfills it directly.
Though arca-shop.de can be a good option for EU customers, it seems they don't have many references in stock.
-
arca-swiss-magasin.com is the main french dealer, and the closest to A/S. You pass your order here and A/S fulfills it directly.
Though arca-shop.de can be a good option for EU customers, it seems they don't have many references in stock.
:)
Paul
-
I was at the Kina too saturday.
Some nice stuff there,
the electro-mechanic studio cam (Cap Cam ) looked really fun, probably the way to go, but i'm afraid there's no market left for thes tools.
Was impressed too by the Cambo, a beautiful little jewel, but of course it will only make sense with a CMOS back. (tried the Leaf one there, very very good live view, compared to my IQ160).
Stayed a moment at the Leaf stand, unfortunately Yair was very busy, but I nevertheless had the opportunity to play with the installed repro camera from P1 I'm very interested in.
Tom
-
Do these things work with an A7R and a wide angle lens like a Canon 24 TS-E? How wide would this go, 50? 30?
I found that DSLR sized sensors on view cameras demand a precision in zeroing that defeated a heavy studio monorail like the Cambo Ultima, so what hope for a cute little thing like these. Tilt where you don't want it is the enemy of deep focus.
I can see these are revolutionary with a Credo 50 on the back. I'll ask my guardian angel to magic up the money for me.
With an MFDB and live view these are probably the grail for a view camera lover.
-
Does the F-Universialis work with the FP shutter so that one may use an MS back with it? Also... is there an alternative focusing method offered with the F-Universialis (with FP mounted on it - if it can) for those that want to stick with their older MS backs that offer much worst LV than a 50c-ms or a 200c-ms?
-
Do these things work with an A7R and a wide angle lens like a Canon 24 TS-E? How wide would this go, 50? 30?
I found that DSLR sized sensors on view cameras demand a precision in zeroing that defeated a heavy studio monorail like the Cambo Ultima, so what hope for a cute little thing like these. Tilt where you don't want it is the enemy of deep focus.
I can see these are revolutionary with a Credo 50 on the back. I'll ask my guardian angel to magic up the money for me.
With an MFDB and live view these are probably the grail for a view camera lover.
With the Canon TS-E's you need a focal plane shutter and some electronic interface to control the aperture. Hartblei Hcam and Alpa FPS has this. Arca-Swiss got a focal plane shutter unit now, but I don't think they can control Canon lenses (yet). Correct me if I'm wrong.
The A7r sensor have crosstalk issues, and while the TS-Es won't bring it into crosstalk except in the very edge of the image circle (which is fuzzy anyway), tech wides will. Desaturation and demosaicing artifacts may follow. As it's subjective how much you can accept it's subjective how wide you can go. It also depends on how much you want to shift. Unfortunately I don't have any test files on A7r with tech wides, but have IQ250 files (equivalent to Credo 50) and from those I'd say if you keep within 25-30 degrees you're going to get fine image quality, and you can stretch it a bit in the corners and in horizontal orientation. The heavily retrofocus Canon TS-E delivers light at about 20 degrees at the image circle edge, and A7r show a little crosstalk there so I'd guess maybe that sensor is stable for 17 degrees or so.
Unfortunately there's no "max projection angle on the image plane" data in the lens data sheets. Since the wide lenses generally have quite large nodal point separation (meaning that the rear nodal point is considerable closer to the image plane than the center of the copal shutter, ie there's a steeper angle than one might expect) it's not so easy figured out from the available data sheets.
Schneider Digitar does have nodal point separation defined in their data sheets, but that does not really help that much as we need to know where the actual rear nodal point is. Anyway taking the flange focal distance, adding 5mm (to get to the center of the Copal) and then removing half nodal point separation seems to lead to an approximative position of the rear nodal point, which becomes equal to the focal length as these lenses are of symmetrical type. Angle is thus just the same as in the front, and thus the SK28XL delivers light at almost 60 degrees (!) at the image circle edge. Ie way past what the Sony CMOS sensors can do.
Rodenstock Digarons are retrofocus and unfortunately their data sheets don't have any nodal point separation specified so we can't do any approximation in the same way. Looking at a cross-section of one of these lenses it does seem like nodal point separation is quite big in these lenses, say 20mm or so. Then we can approximate the rear nodal point position as being flange focal distance + 5 - 20/2, ie flange focal distance - 5mm. Assuming this is right we get the following angles:
Digaron-S 23mm: arctan((70/2)/(44.8-5)) = 41 degrees at 70mm image circle edge
Digaron-S 28mm: 36 degrees
Digaron-S 35mm: 36 degrees
Digaron-S 60mm: 31 degrees
Digaron-W 32mm: 35 degrees at 90mm image circle
Digaron-W 40mm: 35 degrees
Digaron-W 50mm: 32 degrees
Using a laser pointer these angles could be verified, but unfortunately I don't have these lenses so I can't test (I have many of the symmetric Schneider Digitar lenses though). It does seem like Rodenstock have had some maximum angle of ~35 degrees as design target and adapted the degree of retrofocus to match that. The Rodenstock 32mm is thus more retrofocus (and more complex) than the 40mm, but will thanks to that not put the sensor more to the test than the 40. The 23mm seems to be an exception with a bit steeper angle. Nodal point separation can vary a lot between lenses though, so the actual value could be otherwise.
Anyway, with these angles it seems like you will with the Rodenstocks get some limitations with the Credo 50, and pretty large limitations with the A7r. Of course things get considerably worse with the Schneider Digitar lens line. If you would go to the 110 mm image circle edge of the 60XL you have 45 degrees angle there, ie more than the Digaron-S 28mm at its edge...
I have test files of IQ250 + 32 HR though. With the 32HR your trouble-free (very little desaturation and no demosaicing artifacts) zone is about 65-70mm image circle, which would put the IQ250 / Credo 50 limit at about 25 degrees. Or put it in other terms, you'll get 65-70mm image circle from the 32 and 40 and a little more with the 50 (but not full 90), and with the Digaron-S lenses 28 and 35 you get 50-55mm image circle (ie no shifting!). Depending on subject you can accept more crosstalk and expand this zone. With the A7r you get smaller circles, but on the other hand you have a smaller sensor and maybe you shift less then.
So the question "how wide would this go" is not so easily answered, unless you just say "it depends"...
-
Does the F-Universialis work with the FP shutter so that one may use an MS back with it? Also... is there an alternative focusing method offered with the F-Universialis (with FP mounted on it - if it can) for those that want to stick with their older MS backs that offer much worst LV than a 50c-ms or a 200c-ms?
FP Shutter will work on any of the Arca systems: F, M, Univeralis, or R.
The Univeralis uses the same long-history Arca board mount and can accept the Arca Swiss Rotaslide sliding-ground-glass-back. Also, the rail-sled can be used to tell you the current distance of focus as well as the front and back of the depth-of-field.
We don't work with MS backs so you'd have to direct that question to your MS-supporting dealer.
-
FP Shutter will work on any of the Arca systems: F, M, Univeralis, or R.
The Univeralis uses the same long-history Arca board mount and can accept the Arca Swiss Rotaslide sliding-ground-glass-back. Also, the rail-sled can be used to tell you the current distance of focus as well as the front and back of the depth-of-field.
We don't work with MS backs so you'd have to direct that question to your MS-supporting dealer.
Thanks for the answer Doug... The question was strictly about Universalis ability... nothing to do with the rest of the products you deal with.
I guess Cambo will be preferred from the ones that decide to use a DSLR (preferably mirrorless), while F-Universalis will be chosen by those that want to expand their MFDB use further than the back of their MF camera... (unless if Cambo comes with a focal plane shutter for the Actus). I believe both cameras will be the company's "flag" (of both companies) from here after... and they are right to do so... Both are beautiful designs.
I also believe that Arca has to look at the price of their FP shutter... they are asking more than half the price of an MF body (which includes a shutter) for it... even more than the camera itself! ....I believe they take advantage from the fact that it is a unique offer (after Sinar M has been discontinued)... they shouldn't, it may affect the sales of the whole system... after all it is only a Copal shutter housed in a box with some communication ports on it... it's not a body!
-
I also believe that Arca has to look at the price of their FP shutter... they are asking more than half the price of an MF body (which includes a shutter) for it... even more than the camera itself! ....I believe they take advantage from the fact that it is a unique offer (after Sinar M has been discontinued)... they shouldn't, it may affect the sales of the whole system... after all it is only a Copal shutter housed in a box with some communication ports on it... it's not a body!
Judging by the interest we've had in the few days since announcement I would say quite strongly the price is ok. Maybe things are a bit different around the world than in your particular market?
-
Judging by the interest we've had in the few days since announcement I would say quite strongly the price is ok. Maybe things are a bit different around the world than in your particular market?
My point is strictly that they take advance of the fact that there is no competition around... not that I won't be buying it or that people aren't forced to buy it (as they don't have an alternative if they need one)... I still think it may affect sales of the camera than what it could be if it was cheaper...
-
Arca newbie here:
How do you swing on the front standard of the Arca? The Cambo has self-locking front tilt and swing, and looks very straightforward. Overall, I like what I've seen from both cameras.
Cambo Actus video: http://youtu.be/JSVvDHPGbbA
-
On the F-line you press the flat element at the bottom of the front frame (with the A/S logo engraved) and swing manually, then release it to lock.
-
In that case, I'd prefer the Cambo, but there's still that M Line Two which is super nice.
-
Not exactly the same weight.
To me the universalis is a F ("field") precise enough to be used with a MFDB, which is rather cool. If it lets me shoot some 4x5 and use a dslr too, I really couldn't ask for more (well, maybe more movements and/or tilt on the rear standard too...).
-
Not exactly the same weight.
To me the universalis is a F ("field") precise enough to be used with a MFDB, which is rather cool. If it lets me shoot some 4x5 and use a dslr too, I really couldn't ask for more (well, maybe more movements and/or tilt on the rear standard too...).
Both systems are intended to advance solutions while reducing costs... Additionally, they both propose the use of inexpensive MF lenses to reduce system size without affecting performance. IMO the Universalis is more directed to MFDB users, while Actus is rather targeting the use of FF mirrorless as replacing the use of an MF back... My impression is, that both systems will also find a lot of appreciation as front ends with high end cinema....
-
Arca newbie here:
How do you swing on the front standard of the Arca? The Cambo has self-locking front tilt and swing, and looks very straightforward. Overall, I like what I've seen from both cameras.
Cambo Actus video: http://youtu.be/JSVvDHPGbbA
I believe that the Universalis will have geared movement for front tilt and swing. The M2 and DSLR2 both do. In the attached picture, you can see the Universalis with a A7 body mounted to the back. Note, I believe that a bellows will be needed, if an R lens is used, like with the M2. The large knob in the front should be the swing or tilt, but not sure which. There is also a Arca locking knob in the front, so not sure what that controls. Another difference I see is that the front stardard has adjustment, up and down as does the rear, where as on the M2, only the rear standard had the up and down adjustment. This is used both to help center the A7 on to the lens, and also provides rise and fall.
On the the picture of the Universalis, looking directly below the A7r, you can see a geared track, which I am assuming is for camera body shift.
Paul
-
I suspect the knob will be for geared tilt, which is a bit more useful than swing and where precision is necessary.
If you look at the picture from the other side (grabbed on CI blog) you'll see there are no other knobs, so no hidden geared shift or swing controls. There's a locking mechanism at the top of the front carrier though, no idea what it's used for.
-
Frederic
That's a good view and I agree looks like just the one knob most likely for tilt. I am wondering if the locking mechanism is swing? Not controlled with a knob.
Paul
-
My point is strictly that they take advance of the fact that there is no competition around... not that I won't be buying it or that people aren't forced to buy it (as they don't have an alternative if they need one)... I still think it may affect sales of the camera than what it could be if it was cheaper...
Isn't that true in general Theodoros? ;)
The essential equation is more concerning the projected sales and respective volume of profits from those sales at the given price points.
But I digress -
Back to your favorite topic - multi-shot digital backs. Typically the host digital back software will need compatibility with the given shutter for multi-shot capture (at least this has been the case with Sinar, their own shutter systems, as well as Hasselblad and Schneider/Rodenstock shutters. I'm pretty sure of this - even in the event of an external software utility (outside the host software) for controlling the electronic shutter (as was the case with the Jenoptik Eyelike digital backs with Schneider Electronic Shutter - or was that embedded?). No matter, in any case, external or embedded control module, the compatibility still needs to be there in the host software.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
-
I already knew that was the geared tilt knob on the Arca, I just wasn't seeing where the swing is, and now I see that it's the same as the older Arca F line models.
-
But I digress -
Back to your favorite topic - multi-shot digital backs. Typically the host digital back software will need compatibility with the given shutter for multi-shot capture (at least this has been the case with Sinar, their own shutter systems, as well as Hasselblad and Schneider/Rodenstock shutters. I'm pretty sure of this - even in the event of an external software utility (outside the host software) for controlling the electronic shutter (as was the case with the Jenoptik Eyelike digital backs with Schneider Electronic Shutter - or was that embedded?). No matter, in any case, external or embedded control module, the compatibility still needs to be there in the host software.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
May be it will be a great idea if they develop adapter plates for the backs that are CPU compatible and then one would connect the shutter on the adapter... IMO it will be a good idea if they proceed even further than this to even develop dedicated lens mounts that will allow some MF owners that use large circle lenses (I know that most C645 lenses and all GX680 have sufficient circle to allow extensive movements on a 44x33 sensor) to share them on a tech camera and be able to control the aperture.
I am a fan of the idea that a photographer should use as little equipment as possible, yet with maximum ability and performance. There are people that would be thrilled by the idea of having an H5 or Rollei or C645 or other and be able to convert it onto a view camera by only adapting their backs and lenses on a different body.... C645 & H5 owners will have the additional benefit of investing on a Leica S(007) and even replace their DSLR systems.... That would be a real dream, wouldn't it? ....Only 5-7 lenses and three (quite compact) bodies, that would cover everything, yet being capable of optimal quality.
-
Front swing of the universalis is done by pressing the button and swinging it. there are no gears, but the movement is quite smooth.
Anyway, I decided to get the Cambo and ordered it today.
My reasons:
- Better implementation of portrait/horizontal, the L-plate approach of the Arca is too clunky for my taste.
- proper old school arca rails which will fit all my tripod clamps
- both swing and tilt geared
- my local Calumet carries and supporte Cambo
- Cheaper by 25%
-
With the Canon TS-E's you need a focal plane shutter and some electronic interface to control the aperture. Hartblei Hcam and Alpa FPS has this. Arca-Swiss got a focal plane shutter unit now, but I don't think they can control Canon lenses (yet). Correct me if I'm wrong.
The A7r sensor have crosstalk issues, and while the TS-Es won't bring it into crosstalk except in the very edge of the image circle (which is fuzzy anyway), tech wides will. Desaturation and demosaicing artifacts may follow. As it's subjective how much you can accept it's subjective how wide you can go. It also depends on how much you want to shift. Unfortunately I don't have any test files on A7r with tech wides, but have IQ250 files (equivalent to Credo 50) and from those I'd say if you keep within 25-30 degrees you're going to get fine image quality, and you can stretch it a bit in the corners and in horizontal orientation. The heavily retrofocus Canon TS-E delivers light at about 20 degrees at the image circle edge, and A7r show a little crosstalk there so I'd guess maybe that sensor is stable for 17 degrees or so.
Unfortunately there's no "max projection angle on the image plane" data in the lens data sheets. Since the wide lenses generally have quite large nodal point separation (meaning that the rear nodal point is considerable closer to the image plane than the center of the copal shutter, ie there's a steeper angle than one might expect) it's not so easy figured out from the available data sheets.
Schneider Digitar does have nodal point separation defined in their data sheets, but that does not really help that much as we need to know where the actual rear nodal point is. Anyway taking the flange focal distance, adding 5mm (to get to the center of the Copal) and then removing half nodal point separation seems to lead to an approximative position of the rear nodal point, which becomes equal to the focal length as these lenses are of symmetrical type. Angle is thus just the same as in the front, and thus the SK28XL delivers light at almost 60 degrees (!) at the image circle edge. Ie way past what the Sony CMOS sensors can do.
Rodenstock Digarons are retrofocus and unfortunately their data sheets don't have any nodal point separation specified so we can't do any approximation in the same way. Looking at a cross-section of one of these lenses it does seem like nodal point separation is quite big in these lenses, say 20mm or so. Then we can approximate the rear nodal point position as being flange focal distance + 5 - 20/2, ie flange focal distance - 5mm. Assuming this is right we get the following angles:
Digaron-S 23mm: arctan((70/2)/(44.8-5)) = 41 degrees at 70mm image circle edge
Digaron-S 28mm: 36 degrees
Digaron-S 35mm: 36 degrees
Digaron-S 60mm: 31 degrees
Digaron-W 32mm: 35 degrees at 90mm image circle
Digaron-W 40mm: 35 degrees
Digaron-W 50mm: 32 degrees
Using a laser pointer these angles could be verified, but unfortunately I don't have these lenses so I can't test (I have many of the symmetric Schneider Digitar lenses though). It does seem like Rodenstock have had some maximum angle of ~35 degrees as design target and adapted the degree of retrofocus to match that. The Rodenstock 32mm is thus more retrofocus (and more complex) than the 40mm, but will thanks to that not put the sensor more to the test than the 40. The 23mm seems to be an exception with a bit steeper angle. Nodal point separation can vary a lot between lenses though, so the actual value could be otherwise.
Anyway, with these angles it seems like you will with the Rodenstocks get some limitations with the Credo 50, and pretty large limitations with the A7r. Of course things get considerably worse with the Schneider Digitar lens line. If you would go to the 110 mm image circle edge of the 60XL you have 45 degrees angle there, ie more than the Digaron-S 28mm at its edge...
I have test files of IQ250 + 32 HR though. With the 32HR your trouble-free (very little desaturation and no demosaicing artifacts) zone is about 65-70mm image circle, which would put the IQ250 / Credo 50 limit at about 25 degrees. Or put it in other terms, you'll get 65-70mm image circle from the 32 and 40 and a little more with the 50 (but not full 90), and with the Digaron-S lenses 28 and 35 you get 50-55mm image circle (ie no shifting!). Depending on subject you can accept more crosstalk and expand this zone. With the A7r you get smaller circles, but on the other hand you have a smaller sensor and maybe you shift less then.
So the question "how wide would this go" is not so easily answered, unless you just say "it depends"...
Arca-Swiss, in conjunction with the launch of the FS shutter, showed the Canon Aperture control for use on the R series with the 17 or 24mm T/S
lenses, at the show as well.
We also have a focusing setup that makes using a rail camera super fast and accurate. It will work with any of our monorail bodies old or new since 1984.
Rod
-
Isn't that true in general Theodoros? ;)
The essential equation is more concerning the projected sales and respective volume of profits from those sales at the given price points.
But I digress -
Back to your favorite topic - multi-shot digital backs. Typically the host digital back software will need compatibility with the given shutter for multi-shot capture (at least this has been the case with Sinar, their own shutter systems, as well as Hasselblad and Schneider/Rodenstock shutters. I'm pretty sure of this - even in the event of an external software utility (outside the host software) for controlling the electronic shutter (as was the case with the Jenoptik Eyelike digital backs with Schneider Electronic Shutter - or was that embedded?). No matter, in any case, external or embedded control module, the compatibility still needs to be there in the host software.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
One more thing please Steven... would aperture of Contax 645 glass work with the Canon mount and additional Conorus adapter? Would the R/C & MPU be compatible? Thanks.
-
Hi,
I would also be really interested to know if there was any way at all of using Contax 645 glass on these cameras? I see that Alpa has figured out a way to do this with their "shift" adapter but I imagine this will be super expensive.
Ok, thanks a lot..
-
Hi,
I would also be really interested to know if there was any way at all of using Contax 645 glass on these cameras? I see that Alpa has figured out a way to do this with their "shift" adapter but I imagine this will be super expensive.
Ok, thanks a lot..
There are additional lensboards under consideration by Cambo and Contax is one of them.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
-
In reading about the Universalis they mention a slimmer rail. Is the Universalis rail compatible with previous Arca gear that uses the "standard" rail.
-
In reading about the Universalis they mention a slimmer rail. Is the Universalis rail compatible with previous Arca gear that uses the "standard" rail.
The Universalis uses the current, and standard for many years now, Monorail on this and all of our rail cameras.
The R series also uses a small 'foot', which is a short rail piece. This allows the extension kit to be implemented on the R series, as well.
This means that the DeX kit for focus and DoF calculator, will also retrofit any Arca-Swiss monorail camera, along with any other of the
elements of the DeX system added.
Arca, stands for All-aRound-CAmera, and we have stayed connected to that concept when ever possible.
Rod
-
Thanks for the info. I am looking for possible options to the front block on my m-line 6x9. I like wide angle lens for still life so it would be nice to have a smaller front standard unit. The M-Line front unit can get in the way when getting close to a subject & set.
-
Your best option would be the front standard of a MF2 body.
It is smaller in size and so, does not have the full movement of the M line body,
but it will match the height of the rear. It has swing movement. Using a front frame with Micro-Orbix tilt installed, as current M-line bodies are delivered,
You will have the 2 movements for altering focus plane.
By the way most wide angle designs are not nearly as good as, normal to telephoto focal length lenses for close up/macro work.
The Schneider 47mm Apo-Digitar XL is an exception in that it works well in that instance with even an
80mp back. Shooting the 47mm with an 80mp back at infinity it has some drawbacks, however. Banding, etc.
The M-Two front function carrier is cat # 055003.
Be well,
Rod
-
Infinity ???? If one is not shooting anywhere near infinity lens circles and such do not mean much. My pretty Arca is shy and never exposes herself outside the studio.
My favourite still life lens is the 47mm Schneider with a Hasselblad 39ms. I have longer lens. I just like the slightly wide look of the 47mm. My second favourite lens is a Schneider Xenotar 80mm f2.8 that have programmed to my Rollei shutter. That lens writes so much nicer than my new 80mm.
The M-Line Two would be the same problem. I was thinking of the Function Carrier F-metric front. Much smaller to get into a set. It would give me swing, tilt, and side shift. I can live without up/down shift. Will the format frame from my M-Line front standard go on one of those?
-
The metric front function carrier is too short for the rear monolith carrier. It will not center.
The front frame will fit into the Universalis front function carrier.
The rear accepts an ecentric frame specific to the Universalis.
As I stated above the 47mm is excellent up close. An exception to the rule about wide angles up close.
Rod
-
You might consider just ordering a complete Universalis and using all your Monolith accessories on it. Long and W/A bellows, extra rails etc.
It may end up being close in price.
Rod
-
There are additional lensboards under consideration by Cambo and Contax is one of them.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Does this mean that there is assosiate accessories expected, like it happens with the Arca Universalis, which will include universal shutter, lens aperture control for electronic lenses etc... To develop the Actus system further? ...is there some additional information on how far Cambo plans to develop the system?
It seems to me, that we are facing a new era of view cameras where the view camera will be able to be integrated in an MF system (within its lens limitations) and just by replacing the body (keeping the used back and lenses) will be able to give all additional view camera advantages thus saving a fortune when compared with adding a complete system dedicated to movements... Alpa's announcement of dedicated mounts (with full dedication) for C645, Hass H and Rollei 6000/HY6 lenses, enhances further that impression... It seems to me that:
1. Cambo is using the "Sony A7 instead of MFDB" solution as a basic standard which will develop further to adopt MFDBs (instead of FF mirrorless) for the future.
2. There are more makers (Sinar, Linhof etc) that will compete in the same market soon.
3. That old fashion LF is dead...
4. That the dedicated to LF (large image circle) lenses market will shrink considerably down to only the necessary that will be required to overcome MF limitations depending on the MF system used.
5. That LV quality will be the decisive factor for the new View/tech camera market.
6. That this market will have a bright future when used with Pro Video equipment. (I bet we'll soon see new filming techniques from directors)
7. That the makers who have "closed" systems will be considerably handicapped from those that support extensive modularity and corporation between systems (think about it Hassy and "open" your system completely).
8. That those that have retained older stuff to work with (C645, M-67, H-V, R-HY6/6xxx ...etc) will feel relieved.
It also seems that Leica is dedicated to supply the same service by replacing DSLR need for pros... I really hope that there will be (cheaper) followers in that path... Never the less, the good (excellent) news for those that use all kinds of equipment for all kinds of photography... is great! ...We'll soon need to carry ONE bag around boys... (and quality will shoot off the roof at the same time). 8)
-
You might consider just ordering a complete Universalis and using all your Monolith accessories on it. Long and W/A bellows, extra rails etc.
It may end up being close in price.
Rod
What do you mean by "complete Universalis" Rod? ...Do you mean just the camera or with the electronics along it? ...In my view if one has an "m" he may as well proceed into adding the accessories to it... I don't see how the S/H selling price of an "m" will cover more than the price that a Universalis pure body would... neither I can see why one would sell his (more capable) "m" to replace it for a "Universalis" (since the electronics are fully compatible). The impression I have is that the Universalis is for "new comers" ...not that it is "better" or more capable (in any way) than the "m"....
-
Usually the cost of putting together a camera that is most functional, using parts is more than buying it out right.
I agree that buying the function carriers and a frame will be less, but it may be approaching the cost of a complete Universalis body,
Say within 25%. I can't say as I have no numbers at all on the parts yet. The electronics will work on your Monolith just fine, so not an issue there.
It would be a separate camera ready to go in a lighter package. That's all. I was not suggesting you sell the Monolith at all,
just augmenting it, so if switching between bodies you would not have the possible issue of forgetting something, etc.
That was all I meant.
Be well,
Rod
-
Usually the cost of putting together a camera that is most functional, using parts is more than buying it out right.
I agree that buying the function carriers and a frame will be less, but it may be approaching the cost of a complete Universalis body,
Say within 25%. I can't say as I have no numbers at all on the parts yet. The electronics will work on your Monolith just fine, so not an issue there.
It would be a separate camera ready to go in a lighter package. That's all. I was not suggesting you sell the Monolith at all,
just augmenting it, so if switching between bodies you would not have the possible issue of forgetting something, etc.
That was all I meant.
Be well,
Rod
I believe that you should think of it from a new comer's POV... One may start the system using a Sony A7 as a back and then upgrade it to use his (future) MFDB while keeping his lenses... An "m" user, he only has to integrate some parts and only look to connect it with his MF system from a "shrink system" but "have more integration" POV... It's not the same... the "m" user should obviously keep his investment... It will also allow him to integrate the accessories with more sense and without any time pressure with respect to quality...
-
I received my Actus today. it works really nicely, very quick to set up. It may look like the bellows is a bit short, as I am struggling to focus a 120mm digitar closer thna 2m without the magnetic bellows popping off. I am not so shure about the advantage of a magnetic bellows. setup is super-quick, but it is quite easy to knock it off (fogging the
film sensor ;D)
I'll keep playing around with it...
-
I received my Actus today. it works really nicely, very quick to set up. It may look like the bellows is a bit short, as I am struggling to focus a 120mm digitar closer thna 2m without the magnetic bellows popping off. I am not so shure about the advantage of a magnetic bellows. setup is super-quick, but it is quite easy to knock it off (fogging the film sensor ;D)
I'll keep playing around with it...
what is your choice for imaging sensor? Is it an A7?
-
currently I have a A7r mounted. I also bought the canon mount, but forgot my Canon in my Studio, so this one has to wait till after the weekend.
It is such a shame that Sony so much fucked up the tethering with live view for the A-series. How hard can it be?
for my commercial work I shoot nearly 100% tethered since the classic 1Ds like 10 years ago. and hardly ever look through the viewfinder since the 5dmark2 in 2008. Canon's eos capture is buggy, but gives a beautiful live view and allows to shoot without having to switch programs. the way Sony is handling tethering doesn't work in a commercial environment where sometimes 10 people have to look at the live view and the capture.
-
I received my Actus today. it works really nicely, very quick to set up. It may look like the bellows is a bit short, as I am struggling to focus a 120mm digitar closer thna 2m without the magnetic bellows popping off. I am not so shure about the advantage of a magnetic bellows. setup is super-quick, but it is quite easy to knock it off (fogging the film sensor ;D)
I'll keep playing around with it...
Think of it as a leather coat, it's gong to relax and give over time. I found that even just after a week of some "bellows exercizes" that the magnetic hold was much more effective. Work it a bit, it will get better.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
-
so what is the longest lens you were comfortable with? Working distance around 1m.
-
so what is the longest lens you were comfortable with? Working distance around 1m.
I got to where I could extend the rear standard to the max, and with shift, without the bellows coming loose.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
-
Apologies if this is mentioned somewhere and I have missed it but am just wondering if the Universalis allows you to swap between a Sony A7RII and a 5x4 back "in the field"?
Or are these essentially separate cameras?
I still shoot 5x4 and not having to lug my 54 camera around would be amazing!
Thanks so much in advance..
-
The Universalis system is modular. So you can buy a camera, say the 4x5 camera, and add the conversion kit parts as needed for DSLR use or MF.
For the 4x5 to convert you will need a DSLR conv kit, which consists of a DSLR bellows, a bayonet mount, and a monobalfix Arca-Swiss L bracket. The DSLr bellows allows use of lenses up to about 120mm. For close-ups, the longer accessory bellows-DSLR, of 50cm may be required, or a hard extension tube may also be used. Very quick to change in the field.
Questions, ask me or your dealer.
Rod
-
Hi Rod,
Thanks so much for that information, much appreciated!
To have the flexibility of both systems in the field would be amazing!
Any idea if Arca Swiss has any plans to develop something similar to Cambo's electronic lens plate for Canon lenses?
https://www.cambo.com/en/actus-mini/cambo-actus-mini-view-camera/acb-ca/
If not, am wondering if there was anyway of machining a lens board to attach the Cambo electronic lens board? From my understanding, it is independently battery operated in the way that it changes the aperture of Canon lenses..
Maybe not the most elegant solution but wonder if it would work....
-
Any idea if Arca Swiss has any plans to develop something similar to Cambo's electronic lens plate for Canon lenses?
Actually, yes. I had the opportunity to put it to use during our trip to Seoul a couple months ago. I've been waiting for my final version and I actually just got a shipping notice from UPS that I have a package arriving from Arca Monday. The Canon mount is the only thing I have on order ;)
More soon.
(https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/12976981_10208170055464168_4864821557537915800_o.jpg)
-
Awesome! Look forward to hearing some more about it! :D
-
UPS just dropped off my production version of the board and I had to stop working on dinner to give it a quick go. It's working perfectly! I gotta tell you, having the new Canon 11-24 on a view camera, with movements greater than you'd expect is such a thing of beauty. I'll work on some videos tomorrow.
-CB
-
UPS just dropped off my production version of the board and I had to stop working on dinner to give it a quick go. It's working perfectly! I gotta tell you, having the new Canon 11-24 on a view camera, with movements greater than you'd expect is such a thing of beauty. I'll work on some videos tomorrow.
-CB
Chris, do you think it would be possible to mount the Sony to an RM3Di and use it? Or do you think the handle on the Sony would keep it from getting close enough?
-
Yeah, the grip would totally be in the way. I REALLY wish Sony had released the Rx1r2 with an interchangeable lens mount (a much better profile for this application). I'm sure at some point there will be a high end rangefinder style body that works nicely with a view camera body. As for the Tech cams? Seems unlikely.
Joe, at PhotoExpo, last year, Arca was showing an Rm3d with the Canon mount on the front and a digiback mounted. I think they're still working on an idea like that. Did you see it at the booth?
-
Hi Chris,
That looks so good, cannot wait to see some more!
Would love to know how much "usable" shift you can get from this lens? Stefan Steib gives some measurements in the Sony Get Dpi Thread
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/54571-hcam-master-ts-11-24mm.html
but would love to hear it from a working architectural photographer.. He also talks about needing to remove the rear lightrap and the filter hood for this lens to get maximum shift out of it..
Thanks in advance!
-
Pics attached! I haven't put the 11-24 through it's paces yet and I think I'd rather live with less shift than removing the hood and rear shroud. it may very well be replacing at least my 17 TS-e if not the 24 too.
(https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/13071818_10208185617293204_9116711115602433178_o.jpg)
(https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/13041229_10208185617333205_8078888158310768282_o.jpg)
(https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/13071757_10208185617933220_7901690469548400486_o.jpg)
(https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t31.0-8/13071781_10208185617973221_3332526037066882493_o.jpg)
(https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/13055858_10208185618013222_6250045290098976066_o.jpg)
-
Enjoy!
BR Erik
Pics attached! I haven't put the 11-24 through it's paces yet and I think I'd rather live with less shift than removing the hood and rear shroud. it may very well be replacing at least my 17 TS-e if not the 24 too.
-
Hi Chris,
thank you very much for the images. Looks very promising. I love the way they made it. Very clear and simple.
May I ask some questions?
1. Does the USB-port mean, that there is no battery inside and you have to have an external power source connected all the time? (I think the cambo solution has a battery inside.)
2. How do you change aperture?
3. And my last question (I do not expect it, but since I would love it - I have to ask): there is probably no possibility to use that usb-connection to transfer the information about lens, focal length and the used aperture to the camera mount somehow, is there? That would have been a perfect solution. Expecially if you use a zoom lens it would be very helpful for correction of distortions. Without that it will not be easy - if you aply shift AND use the lens at different focal lengths it appears to be nearly impossible to correct distortions to me. Or did you find a solution for that?
Best regards -
Marc
-
Hi Chris,
I am still very curious about your experience with the new lens board for the unviersalis.
I don't want to push (I guess you are busy and have a lot of stuff to do). Just want to say that I am very interested.
Regards -
Marc
-
I know this is a bit off topic, but I would like to know how much displacement (measured on the rail scale) a full 360degree turn of the focusing knob causes on the Actus and how much on the Universallis?