Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: torger on September 19, 2014, 11:21:20 am
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I've started to look for second hand deals on a H4D-50 because of the tech cam friendly sensor and 100% focus check on screen.
Those are sold with body though, which would be unused by me. Am I right in my assumption that the body is inseparable, ie I can't sell it without the back? Can't be upgraded to a H4x or something either?
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Are you sure you don't need an external battery for the Hasselblad back to work on a tech camera?
I thought that the P45+ is also a Kodak CCD which is tech-friendly (and with long exposure capability) so it is perhaps the best choice other than the IQ260 if your analysis of crosstalk is correct.
I was told that Hasselblad cameras depreciate significantly as second hand because once the serial number has been registered by the first owner then it can no longer be reused to qualify the Hasselblad Masters Award.
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I've started to look for second hand deals on a H4D-50 because of the tech cam friendly sensor and 100% focus check on screen.
Those are sold with body though, which would be unused by me. Am I right in my assumption that the body is inseparable, ie I can't sell it without the back? Can't be upgraded to a H4x or something either?
Yep! ...that's right! May I suggest a CF back instead (cf-39 would be nice) or even a Dalsa 33mp one (Leaf 75/75s/7/7ii or Sinarback 75/75lv)? Personally, I would prefer a Kodak 22 sensor back (instead of 39), but 33mp is IMO the best sensor that Dalsa has ever made... All the above (Kodak 22&39 + Dalsa 33) are microlenses free...
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I will need an external battery yes. A drawback, but not too bad.
I have 33 megapixels today, I'd like to have 50, I find that to be a nice balance, also like the 49x37 sensor size. 39 megapixels is too small upgrade, and iq260 way too expensive.
Hasselblad is often quite cheap second hand, at least here in Sweden, but getting the body when you don't need it does make prices a bit less attractive of course.
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Yep! ...that's right! May I suggest a CF back instead (cf-39 would be nice) or even a Dalsa 33mp one (Leaf 75/75s/7/7ii or Sinarback 75/75lv)? Personally, I would prefer a Kodak 22 sensor back (instead of 39), but 33mp is IMO the best sensor that Dalsa has ever made... All the above (Kodak 22&39 + Dalsa 33) are microlenses free...
I have an Aptus 75. I want a bit more pixels and still keep a working focus check, and a good price. H4D-50 and Aptus-II 10 are about the only alternatives for that. I don’t like the wide aspect ratio of the Aptus-II 10, and the Hasselblad is more tech ultrawide friendly. The Hasselblad is a bit noisy in the shadows but I can deal with that.
The reason I want more pixels is to resolve a little bit more, and reduce aliasing in f/11 shots. Not sure how much difference it will make though.
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I have an Aptus 75. I want a bit more pixels and still keep a working focus check, and a good price. H4D-50 and Aptus-II 10 are about the only alternatives for that. I don’t like the wide aspect ratio of the Aptus-II 10, and the Hasselblad is more tech ultrawide friendly. The Hasselblad is a bit noisy in the shadows but I can deal with that.
Why you want more pixels?
EDIT: Why you think the Kodak 50mp sensor is more tech camera friendly than the Dalsa 33mp one? ...it's the opposite actually!
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Why you want more pixels?
Added in edited message above. Resolve a bit more and reduce aliasing at f/11.
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Added in edited message above. Resolve a bit more and reduce aliasing at f/11.
With what lenses and how much of movements are you going to resolve more? ...why you think that with the Kodak sensor you'll have less allizing? ...does your 75 have much of it?
EDIT: Have you tried your Aptus on a tech camera?
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With what lenses and how much of movements are you going to resolve more? ...why you think that with the Kodak sensor you'll have less allizing? ...does your 75 have much of it?
EDIT: Have you tried your Aptus on a tech camera?
I only shoot on a tech camera since a couple of years, lenses are SK Digitar 35xl, 47xl, 60xl, 72, 90, 120 and 180. Yes the Aptus have quite much of it in distant scenes, wavy water, grass fields and such, I shoot landscapes mainly. Less of an issue in closer scenes.
I hope the smaller pixel size will be more blurred by diffraction and also resolve a little more of the subject and that in combination will reduce aliasing. I know the lack of microlenses is not a plus concerning aliasing, but my current sensor have none either, so I hope it will be better.
I feel know that at f/11the imaged get too sharp and jagged to be ideal. The optical system is a bit underresolved, I prefer more balance between optics and sensor. If I can afford it that is :-)
All this is a bit off topic though, but I pull threads off topic myself all the time anyway... :-)
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I only shoot on a tech camera since a couple of years, lenses are SK Digitar 35xl, 47xl, 60xl, 72, 90, 120 and 180. Yes the Aptus have quite much of it in distant scenes, wavy water, grass fields and such, I shoot landscapes mainly. Less of an issue in closer scenes.
I hope the smaller pixel size will be more blurred by diffraction and also resolve a little more of the subject and that in combination will reduce aliasing. I know the lack of microlenses is not a plus concerning aliasing, but my current sensor have none either, so I hope it will be better.
I feel know that at f/11the imaged get too sharp and jagged to be ideal. The optical system is a bit underresolved, I prefer more balance between optics and sensor. If I can afford it that is :-)
All this is a bit off topic though, but I pull threads off topic myself all the time anyway... :-)
I would stay with what I have if I was you... but anyway, since you are the master, H4 body "naked" is useless (up to now. unless if Hassy comes with some modification), you can't keep the back and sell the body alone... But if my lenses where of the H-system (which they are not), I would keep the body to use it with the back and lenses in parallel to my view camera... Remember that you do need a power supply solution to use an H4 back on a view camera since the back is not self powered... On the H4 it is powered through the H4 body. Mind you that the only (MF) body you can use the back on is its dedicated one... You can't use it (as with all H3/H3ii/H4) on any other Hasselblad body. Only previous than the ones mentioned and H5 backs are supported by the H5X....
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I am not sure what you consider "quite cheap" in Sweden, but I am considering parting with my H3DII-50 and the back is quite similar to the H4D-50 back... Make me an offer if this is what you want.
Anyway, to answer your questions:
-you will need some kind of battery to run the back on a tech cam, the battery should be connected via the firewire cable
-Hasseblad in Göteborg can match an H4 body to another back. Theoretically at least, you could find a H4D user wanting a spare body, have the body matched to his back and sell it that way.
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I would stay with what I have if I was you... but anyway, since you are the master, H4 body "naked" is useless (up to now. unless if Hassy comes with some modification), you can't keep the back and sell the body alone... But if my lenses where of the H-system (which they are not), I would keep the body to use it with the back and lenses in parallel to my view camera... Remember that you do need a power supply solution to use an H4 back on a view camera since the back is not self powered... On the H4 it is powered through the H4 body. Mind you that the only (MF) body you can use the back on is its dedicated one... You can't use it (as with all H3/H3ii/H4) on any other Hasselblad body. Only previous than the ones mentioned and H5 backs are supported by the H5X....
Yep, I guess the hard truth is that I need to keep the body on the shelf, so I can sell it again if I want to change back later. Most sales are without lens, if I do get a 80/2.8 with it I would probably shoot one or two pictures for fun. If I get it without lens I would not spend many euros on getting one to play. The thing is that MF SLRs are totally wrong for the way I shoot. Either I shoot landscapes from tripod and then tech cam is the way to go for me, or I shoot hand-held action in available light, and then my Canon is the way to go.
I know about the external power requirement, it's not a plus but I can live with it. Established battery solutions exist. I can make a battery pocket on my sliding back if I want to.
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I am not sure what you consider "quite cheap" in Sweden, but I am considering parting with my H3DII-50 and the back is quite similar to the H4D-50 back... Make me an offer if this is what you want.
Anyway, to answer your questions:
-you will need some kind of battery to run the back on a tech cam, the battery should be connected via the firewire cable
-Hasseblad in Göteborg can match an H4 body to another back. Theoretically at least, you could find a H4D user wanting a spare body, have the body matched to his back and sell it that way.
Thanks. There are H3DII-50s too to get from time to time, but then I rather try to get a CFV-50 which is self-contained and has just as bad screen. The CFV-50 is harder to come by though, not many in the market. The reason H4D-50 is on my short list is that it has a working focus check which I have got used to having. It's not a 100% must, but it's convenient especially for tilt/swing tradeoff compositions so I can pay quite some extra to get it. There seems to be some H4D-50s that are just upgraded H3DII-50s, and those do not have a good focus check, so I need to get the right version.
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Thanks. There are H3DII-50s too to get from time to time, but then I rather try to get a CFV-50 which is self-contained and has just as bad screen. The CFV-50 is harder to come by though, not many in the market. The reason H4D-50 is on my short list is that it has a working focus check which I have got used to having. It's not a 100% must, but it's convenient especially for tilt/swing tradeoff compositions so I can pay quite some extra to get it. There seems to be some H4D-50s that are just upgraded H3DII-50s, and those do not have a good focus check, so I need to get the right version.
Make sure to check out Hasselblad Certified Pre-Owned as well:
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/1064797/husa_cert_preowned.pdf
Not sure whether they would ship to Europe but it should give you a pretty good idea of the price.
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The reason H4D-50 is on my short list is that it has a working focus check which I have got used to having.
What do you mean by a "working focus check"? What has been changed over the H3DII-50?
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With the H4D model cameras I believe one could buy a separate spare body. This body had to be calibrated to the back at the factory to correct for any build variations and ensure exact chip alignment. You may want to check if this unwanted body of yours could be on sold as a spare body to a H4D user?
The H4D body & back does allow you to do a few things a tech camera cannot do. The camera can be focused, exposure settings adjusted, and fired tethered via fire wire. There are times it is just not possible to directly operate the camera without being in the frame, blocking light, or when booming the camera off a cliff edge. Just lately I put a camera up into the top corner of a room to get the view we wanted. Worked great.
Since you are basically getting the camera for free?
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With Brent's latest post, I believe ALL questions on the matter have been answered....
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Thanks all for the valuable feedback. Probably smartest or at least easiest to keep the body, even if not using it. Makes it easier to sell.
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What do you mean by a "working focus check"? What has been changed over the H3DII-50?
I mean that it's possible to differ between a tack sharp and an almost sharp image. With the exception of the Aptus series none of the older backs provide that feature. You can zoom to 100% on all, but they render the image too soft so you can't see if it's tack sharp or just almost.
The newer H4D-50 should have the newer screen and with the latest firmware a one click 100% focus check feature, which I assume is usable. Haven't seen it in person yet so I don't know for sure. If it's not good I'm mistaken and then I see no reason to choose a H4D-50 over the self-contained CFV-50.
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There's an H4D-50 on sale on Fred Miranda right now by a well known editorial photographer. My friend has one, shoots food/editorial and swears its the best image quality he's ever seen in MFDB.
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The Hasselblad is a bit noisy in the shadows but I can deal with that.
Given that you are a Canon shooter, would you mind sharing your techniques of working around the relatively low dynamic range, especially how to deal with noise in the shadow? I am a long exposure addict (typically 2-4 minutes for each exposure, with ND 3.0 during daylight), and moving from a D800E (Sony sensor) to an IQ260 (Dalsa CCD) is a pain in the ass when dealing with high contrast scenes.
If I do exposure bracketing with the ND filter on (long exposure) and off (quick exposure), the angle of view of my ultra wide angle lens would change slightly due to removing the ND filter, and there will be 2-3 pixels out of alignment in the corners of the picture; if I do exposure bracketing with the ND filter always on, then it is too time consuming (especially for quick light changing conditions e.g. sunset) since the dark frame noise reduction is indispensable for a CCD sensor.
Do you have specific techniques of aligning two exposures while blending? My problem is not about tonal mapping or whatsoever, but the alignment of two exposures.
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I mean that it's possible to differ between a tack sharp and an almost sharp image. With the exception of the Aptus series none of the older backs provide that feature. You can zoom to 100% on all, but they render the image too soft so you can't see if it's tack sharp or just almost.
The newer H4D-50 should have the newer screen and with the latest firmware a one click 100% focus check feature, which I assume is usable. Haven't seen it in person yet so I don't know for sure. If it's not good I'm mistaken and then I see no reason to choose a H4D-50 over the self-contained CFV-50.
I did not notice much difference between the H3DII-50 (the one I am considering parting with) and the H4D-50 in that respect. I will test wether that H4D-50 has the latest firmware and report back tomorrow.
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Given that you are a Canon shooter, would you mind sharing your techniques of working around the relatively low dynamic range, especially how to deal with noise in the shadow? I am a long exposure addict (typically 2-4 minutes for each exposure, with ND 3.0 during daylight), and moving from a D800E (Sony sensor) to an IQ260 (Dalsa CCD) is a pain in the ass when dealing with high contrast scenes.
If I do exposure bracketing with the ND filter on (long exposure) and off (quick exposure), the angle of view of my ultra wide angle lens would change slightly due to removing the ND filter, and there will be 2-3 pixels out of alignment in the corners of the picture; if I do exposure bracketing with the ND filter always on, then it is too time consuming (especially for quick light changing conditions e.g. sunset) since the dark frame noise reduction is indispensable for a CCD sensor.
Do you have specific techniques of aligning two exposures while blending? My problem is not about tonal mapping or whatsoever, but the alignment of two exposures.
I rarely shoot landscapes with my Canon these days, I use my Aptus 75, which has better DR than the Canon but still not state of the art, I'd say it's similar in noise to the Kodak-based Hasselblad 50 megapixel backs. Today I use the Canon mostly for high ISO action and then it's good.
I do bracketing at merging at times though, I use my own Lumariver HDR for that. As any HDR merger it can adapt for camera movement between pictures, but your problem seem to be something else? I don't fully understand why the field of view would change by removing the ND filter, usually such change only occurs if you shift focus, but I guess the ultra wide angle means there's some refraction in the filter causing a slight change. Maybe you could use a focus stacking software in some way, they have features to adapt for changed field of view. In this case I guess the change is very slight and non-linear so possible one have to develop a new algorithm to take this into account. Interesting... could be a feature to add to Lumariver HDR.
My Aptus can only do 30 sec so obviously I don't do long exposures much and haven't experienced this problem.
More often than bracketing I use graduated NDs, just for exposure to avoid the need of bracketing, I keep the grad on when taking the LCC so I cancel it out in post and apply regular tonemapping.
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I did not notice much difference between the H3DII-50 (the one I am considering parting with) and the H4D-50 in that respect. I will test wether that H4D-50 has the latest firmware and report back tomorrow.
Thanks, that would be great! I read on Hasselblad's homepage that the latest firmware features (improved screen resolution and one click focus check) will only work for H4D-50 backs that are new and not an upgraded H3DII-50, which I assume is because the upgraded has the same screen hardware as the H3DII-50, while the new should have the same screen as the H4D-60, which I think is a 460x320 screen, while the old is 320x240. Working focus check is not so much about screen resolution though, but that the demosaicer in the back makes a sharp render of the 100% view. Older Hasselblads don't, meaning that 100% always look a bit soft in the back so you can't see if you really nailed it or if you just almost nailed it.
H4D feature set is a bit confusing due to that some units are upgraded (and thus has less features than the new H4Ds), and that the H4D-60 has some extra features that the other H4Ds don't have. I *think* the H4D-60 can be run with a battery adapter just like the H5Ds, while the other H4Ds like the H4D-50 I'm looking at need power through Firewire, for example using a Silvestri battery.
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You do come across backs only for sale. You just have to be patient. I sold my Cambo system to a friend who than bought the H3D 39 back only on ebay for a great price. Sometimes you see the camera body only for sale. Sometimes you see the back only for sale. You can sell on the body if you have no need for it. More people would have need for either the back or the camera with back but I'm sure there would be someone who would be happy to buy it off you (say someone who damages their body) and like you mentioned the H4D 50 does have advantages over the H3D 50ii.
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You do come across backs only for sale. You just have to be patient. I sold my Cambo system to a friend who than bought the H3D 39 back only on ebay for a great price. Sometimes you see the camera body only for sale. Sometimes you see the back only for sale. You can sell on the body if you have no need for it. More people would have need for either the back or the camera with back but I'm sure there would be someone who would be happy to buy it off you (say someone who damages their body) and like you mentioned the H4D 50 does have advantages over the H3D 50ii.
What are you talking about? ...the body DOESN'T WORK even if used on another D4-50 body... In other words it doesn't work "naked" but neither if you "dress it up"... It's a camera you buy... a DSLR... it's not compatible with other H4-50s... the only difference from a DSLR is that you may take the back of it, find a way to power it (easy)... and use it on a view camera... that's about it! (with H3/H3ii & H4 only).
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What are you talking about? ...the body DOESN'T WORK even if used on another D4-50 body... In other words it doesn't work "naked" but neither if you "dress it up"... It's a camera you buy... a DSLR... it's not compatible with other H4-50s... the only difference from a DSLR is that you may take the back of it, find a way to power it (easy)... and use it on a view camera... that's about it! (with H3/H3ii & H4 only).
As previously stated a H4D 50 back and a H4D50 camera body can be calibrated by Hasselblad to correct any variations. As he is a view camera user I would suggest Torger just keeps looking for a back only. As mentioned backs only do come available, just less often.
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What are you talking about? ...the body DOESN'T WORK even if used on another D4-50 body...
That's right Theodros the body doesn't work on another body even if you tape the 2 of them together. I would make a smiley face but I can't be bothered
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That's right Theodros the body doesn't work on another body even if you tape the 2 of them together. I would make a smiley face but I can't be bothered
What are you talking about? (again)...? You never mentioned you was referring on some one sending a body to Hassy as to have it "made for a back"... You said it like the body was "shareable" to any H4D-50... Do you know how much this (sending a body to be compatible with a back) costs? ...A PRICE THAT THE CAMERA WILL NEVER WORTH... Sooo... what "sell it to another H4D-50 user means? ...Is there a customer?
EDIT: I thought we are talking "sensible" here... Not proposing the inevitable (after looking for the mistakes we do as posts in the web and try to "correct" them) as solutions...
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I did not notice much difference between the H3DII-50 (the one I am considering parting with) and the H4D-50 in that respect. I will test wether that H4D-50 has the latest firmware and report back tomorrow.
I tried a direct comparison today (the two cameras have the latest firmware on). I duplicated a card, so that the two cameras show the same picture. The new screen is indeed a bit better, I'll join a picture to this message. The H4D is also noticeably faster to zoom in.
The new screen is better, but the difference is not like day and night. Besides, the screens (either one) are almost impossible to see outside under the sun.
As to the "focus check" function, you will not be able to use it: you need to press a button on the camera (not on the back). Even on the camera, the function does not appear very useful to me:
-you need to assign a key to it (and therefore lose another function like mirror up, ae lock, etc...)
-it only works right after having taken a picture, not afterwards (or I don't know how...)
-it zooms on the center of the screen (not on the true focus location, I believe this is H5D only) and you cannot move around (or I did not find how...).
I think I will simply continue my practice to press the zoom rocker a few times to check the focus. It is almost as fast and then I can move around.
Something else which you may not know: H backs have a kind of live view mode when tethered to allow focussing. It is probably the best choice when using them on a technical camera.
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I *think* the H4D-60 can be run with a battery adapter just like the H5Ds, while the other H4Ds like the H4D-50 I'm looking at need power through Firewire, for example using a Silvestri battery.
This is what Hasselblad *thinks* as well... http://www.hasselblad.com/media/4517973/battery%20adapter%203053310%20datasheet%20v1.pdf (http://www.hasselblad.com/media/4517973/battery%20adapter%203053310%20datasheet%20v1.pdf)
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What are you talking about? (again)...? You never mentioned you was referring on some one sending a body to Hassy as to have it "made for a back"... You said it like the body was "shareable" to any H4D-50... Do you know how much this (sending a body to be compatible with a back) costs? ...A PRICE THAT THE CAMERA WILL NEVER WORTH... Sooo... what "sell it to another H4D-50 user means? ...Is there a customer?
EDIT: I thought we are talking "sensible" here... Not proposing the inevitable (after looking for the mistakes we do as posts in the web and try to "correct" them) as solutions...
As usual your stupid ranting deflects from the original poster's query so that you can get on your little pedestal and inflate your little ego. I don't care about your ranting Theodoros. It bores me. My point to Thorgor is that he should wait until a back only comes on the market. They do come one the market because I have already seen them come on the market. I don't give a crap why they come on the market as a back only. All I do know is that they do appear and have been bought and sold. Additionally I also see bodies only coming on the market which have been bought and sold.
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As usual your stupid ranting deflects from the original poster's query so that you can get on your little pedestal and inflate your little ego. I don't care about your ranting Theodoros. It bores me. My point to Thorgor is that he should wait until a back only comes on the market. They do come one the market because I have already seen them come on the market. I don't give a crap why they come on the market as a back only. All I do know is that they do appear and have been bought and sold. Additionally I also see bodies only coming on the market which have been bought and sold.
That wasn't my question... as is obvious! But anyway... since the poster only needs the back, may you repeat your proposal on what he would do with the body? ....thanks!
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If I do exposure bracketing with the ND filter on (long exposure) and off (quick exposure), the angle of view of my ultra wide angle lens would change slightly due to removing the ND filter, and there will be 2-3 pixels out of alignment in the corners of the picture
I cannot answer you other questions, but I can suggest another option: if, instead of simply removing your ND filter, you replace it with a clear filter of the same thickness, you should not see any change in alignment any more.
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I tried a direct comparison today. I duplicated a card, so that the two cameras show the same picture. The new screen is indeed a bit better, I'll join a picture to this message. The H4D is also noticeably faster to zoom in.
The new screen is better, but the difference is not like day and night. Besides, the screens (either one) are almost impossible to see outside under the sun.
As to the "focus check" function, you will not be able to use it: you need to press a button on the camera (not on the back). Even on the camera, the function does not appear very useful to me:
-you need to assign a key to it (and therefore lose another function like mirror up, ae lock, etc...)
-it only works right after having taken a picture, not afterwards (or I don't know how...)
-it zooms on the center of the screen (not on the true focus location, I believe this is H5D only) and you cannot move around (or I did not find how...).
I think I will simply continue my practice to press the zoom rocker a few times to check the focus. It is almost as fast and then I can move around.
Something else which you may not know: H backs have a kind of live view mode when tethered to allow focussing. It is probably the best choice when using them on a technical camera.
As long as I can zoom in to 100% it's okay, don't need a one click function. I use an Aptus 75 today, that screen is probably the worst screen ever made concerning visibility in sunlight, but still I manage. What you do is to shade the screen with the hand, and in really tough direct light (rare) I simply use the focusing cloth I have with me for the ground glass (rarely need to use that either, thanks to the bright ground glass on the Techno). It's only 320x240 pixels too, but the thing is that when something is sharp you see jaggies and aliasing, so although the 100% zoom is not exactly beautiful it's possible to figure out if it's going to be tack sharp or not when I bring it up on the computer screen at home. So this old Aptus zoom is what I compare with, if it works as good as that, it's good enough for me. With the Aptus 75 it takes some learning to understand how the back renders the images so one can understand if what you see is sharp or not. The screen is bad and low contrast so it's not like looking 100% on a computer screen were you can distinguish even finer grades of critically sharp, but it's good enough so you know that if it looks sharp on the Aptus screen you won't be disappointed when you get home and look at the file on the computer.
The typical problem with all the other older backs is not too much that the screens are bad (which they indeed are) but that the 100% zoom is showing a soft image without jaggies regardless if it's tack sharp or just almost.
Thanks for the photos. I guess the left is the H3DII-50 and the right is the H4D-50. From the picture it seems to me that the H4D-50 does render the sharp parts with jaggies, while the H3DII-50 renders those parts smooth and soft. That is, it's considerably easier to see if an image is critically sharp on the H4D-50 back than on the H3DII-50, look along edges and see if they're jagged - then it's sharp.
I backpack with my gear in quite tough conditions, so bringing a computer with me is not really a good option. I'm quite skilled at ground glass focusing so I extremely rarely do mistakes, but there are times when it feels good to be able to focus check. Especially when doing tilt/swing tradeoff compositions when I may want to check some particular detail here and there. With the ground glass you can focus peak at a point, but you can't really go to the extreme corner and see if the tilt did not pull the subject slightly out of focus there and such things.
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Thanks for the photos. I guess the left is the H3DII-50 and the right is the H4D-50. From the picture it seems to me that the H4D-50 does render the sharp parts with jaggies, while the H3DII-50 renders those parts smooth and soft. That is, it's considerably easier to see if an image is critically sharp on the H4D-50 back than on the H3DII-50, look along edges and see if they're jagged - then it's sharp.
Photography of screens never give the same impression as the real thing. To my eyes, the H3DII-50 shows a bit more "jaggies", but these may not be linked to focus. I think that focus is a bit easier to see on the H4D-50, but not by much.
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Photography of screens never give the same impression as the real thing. To my eyes, the H3DII-50 shows a bit more "jaggies", but these may not be linked to focus. I think that focus is a bit easier to see on the H4D-50, but not by much.
Ok.
I see one difference that may mean that both the Hasselblad screens has a bit worse visibility for 100% view. My ancient Aptus screen have square pixels (each pixel consists of a narrow red, narrow blue and narrow green subpixel) just as on a normal computer screen, while the Hasselblad screen seems to be of some other type and the subpixel structure looks a bit fuzzy in itself, ie you don't have the same clear grid of squares, which makes the 100% view a bit harder to interpret.
Basically it's the screen that have me focused on the H4D-50 rather than the H3DII-50 or CFV-50, but it seems like the difference is a bit smaller than I hoped for. I'm quite sure that the older screen is not up for the task, but it's now less clear if the little step up with the H4D-50 makes a real difference. I still think so, but I guess I need to see for myself at some point.
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With the H4D model cameras I believe one could buy a separate spare body. This body had to be calibrated to the back at the factory to correct for any build variations and ensure exact chip alignment. You may want to check if this unwanted body of yours could be on sold as a spare body to a H4D user?
The H4D body & back does allow you to do a few things a tech camera cannot do. The camera can be focused, exposure settings adjusted, and fired tethered via fire wire. There are times it is just not possible to directly operate the camera without being in the frame, blocking light, or when booming the camera off a cliff edge. Just lately I put a camera up into the top corner of a room to get the view we wanted. Worked great.
Since you are basically getting the camera for free?
This is true.....There is not an external battery option for the H4D series backs as there is no port on the back for a battery or sync cable. And, The H4D 40 uses micro lenses so it will not work on a tech camera anyway. If you want to put a Hassey back on a tech camera you will have to buy an H5D series camera and digital back as they only sell together and are calibrated as one. Which is awesome if you use the camera body (Which I love although other on LL do not). Hasselblad is just now finally coming out with their "External Battery" solution for the H5D cameras. How do I know? because i just demoed one in in the last few weeks. It uses a Sony mainstream lithium battery. The ports for the battery and sync cable are on the bottom of the back. I mounted it right up on my Alpa STC and using Hyperfocal focusing and the Alpa HPF ring on an Alpa 32mm SB17 lens it works flawlessly. What I didn't like is that it is alot of stuff hanging off everywhere but I believe that it just goes with the territory of using Tech Cameras and Digital back...Lots of pieces...LOL. I love Hasselblad Cameras....I think their color is the best over my Nikon D800E and my Phase IQ180. but resolution and DR on the Phase is amazing. Regardless of how good these MF backs are they cannot focus track like my Nikon D800E or D4. Each system has its perks and downfalls. You just gotta find what works best for you. IMO. Sorry Rambling....
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Just to clarify – I don't know if I'm misreading the above post or not – but you can use the H3Dii-50 and H4D-50 backs on a technical camera with an external battery solution, which Silvestri make. It's not as elegant as the H5D solution or, better still, the IQ series, but it's not that cumbersome in practice.
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you can also use any H3dII digital back on any h3dII or H4d body. I happen to have a H3dII-39 back with a broken body. But i can use the back on all my other H3dII and H4 bodies. Calibration is off probably but i have never noticed any problems or so. I never tried true focus with the H3dII-39 back on my H4 but it will probably more or less also work just fine :-)
On the internet there are many examples of how to attach a 9-14 volt battery to a Fire wire 800. So using a Hassy back on a TC does not have to be that big of a problem. Before i used my H4 bodie on the H3DII-39 back i made a contraption of an image bank under an older H1 body and used the lens sync setting to fire the back on the H1. But don't forget to put some very thin insulation tape over the contacts of the camera body other wise the camera will give error messages such as back has no power or simply no back attached :-)
Best Peter.
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you can also use any H3dII digital back on any h3dII or H4d body. I happen to have a H3dII-39 back with a broken body. But i can use the back on all my other H3dII and H4 bodies. Calibration is off probably but i have never noticed any problems or so.
When I read that, I found it hard to believe since word from Hasselblad is that backs and bodies are matched and only work in pair. But since I am still in the position to try it, because I haven't sold my H3DII-50 yet, I decided to check. Indeed it works.
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Just to clarify – I don't know if I'm misreading the above post or not – but you can use the H3Dii-50 and H4D-50 backs on a technical camera with an external battery solution, which Silvestri make. It's not as elegant as the H5D solution or, better still, the IQ series, but it's not that cumbersome in practice.
I stand corrected.....Its looks like there is a solution now..http://www.silvestricamera.com/. Per Alpa, the H4D-40 (Which I own) is still not recommended for a Tech Camera due to Micro Lenses on the sensor. I would try out all the other solutions and see if it works. Would like an update when completed. This would make using the H4D-50 and 60 on a Tech Camera possible which would be awesome!!
Thanks so much for the info!
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When I read that, I found it hard to believe since word from Hasselblad is that backs and bodies are matched and only work in pair. But since I am still in the position to try it, because I haven't sold my H3DII-50 yet, I decided to check. Indeed it works.
Nice tot hear other people also try out new things :-)
I have used many self made contraptions on a h1 with 528c back. The CF lens adapter in combination with flash sync gives many opportunities. But the nicest body remains the hartbleicam. Evert lens ever made fits thuis camera :-)
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I stand corrected.....Its looks like there is a solution now..http://www.silvestricamera.com/. Per Alpa, the H4D-40 (Which I own) is still not recommended for a Tech Camera due to Micro Lenses on the sensor. I would try out all the other solutions and see if it works. Would like an update when completed. This would make using the H4D-50 and 60 on a Tech Camera possible which would be awesome!!
Thanks so much for the info!
I priced the Silvestri kit, it's a lot more than the other options listed on this thread : http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=85816.0
My use will be on a GX680 III, so depending on your use, that may be an option in lieu of a technical camera (and much cheaper).
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I do use my 50Mp very often on my fuji gx680III with the kapture group fuji gx680 adapter and their hasselblad V system groundglass. This is to me the very best combination and gives me a hit rate of almost 100 percent. The groundglas really focusses very fast and extremely accurate. I will post a picture of my kit tomorrow :-)
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I do use my 50Mp very often on my fuji gx680III with the kapture group fuji gx680 adapter and their hasselblad V system groundglass. This is to me the very best combination and gives me a hit rate of almost 100 percent. The groundglas really focusses very fast and extremely accurate. I will post a picture of my kit tomorrow :-)
Could you please be certain Peter that all H3Dii backs work with all H3 & H4 cameras? This is a very serious question in which I'm very interested on... Can one use an H3Dii-39ms back on an H4X? ...or even more, an H4D-200ms back on an H4x? ...I'm only interested on H4x because stop using my 528c alongside my next back (in which I've not decided yet if it'll be a Hassy or a Sinar) is out of the question...
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No, H4X does not have the power supply for the back :-(
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No, H4X does not have the power supply for the back :-(
What if one powers the back externally like he does if he uses the back on a view camera Peter?
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Can you put an H3D-II back on an H4D body?
bob
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Can you put an H3D-II back on an H4D body?
I tried to exchange the backs between an H3DII-50 and an H4D-50 and it appears to work. See the top message on this page.