Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Theodoros on September 08, 2014, 04:46:53 pm
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http://www.hasselblad.com/products/h-system/h5d-cmos-multi-shot.aspx
Personally, I see a downgrade from the previously used CCD sensor on the H4-D50/D200MS, because:
A. There is no benefit or different look to colour, since the purpose of buying MS is to get "true colour" anyway.
B. The sensor pixels are considerably smaller.
C. The sensor is said to be considerably less capable with View/tech cameras than the previous one.
...by the way, the new backs are the only solution in production from Hassy if one wants to buy MS (from Hasselblad) and they are only offered as complete camera system. I believe there will be a party in Sinar's premisses to celebrate for Hasselblad's recent decision... It was about time, up to now there was only P1 celebrating every time a "wise" decision for a product was made by Hasselblad! :'(
Never the less, there is high quality LV focusing for the first time on an Imacon/Hasselblad MS back...
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I wonder how many 50mp multishot cameras were made and sold?
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Just buy a couple of older multi shot backs as spares, they should be cheaper now as they are old technology.
problem solved.
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I wonder how many 50mp multishot cameras were made and sold?
I believe quite some... Never the less, MS sales are certainly less after they stopped making the CF backs. The reason is partly that they lost all customers that were using other cameras than H... (they even lost those who were using V!!! - one may wonder of how bright same marketeers are...), partly that quality can't improve further than older backs since all of them are true colour and partly because pixels are shrinking in modern sensors which affects quality negatively. That's why some swear by the old Kodak sensors that can do 16x still on huge pixels.
You see, if one wants a huge file for a project with MS, he can stitch files and have any resolution he wants since things are still...
Let me give you an example... in a few weeks I'll have to shoot a huge 230 years old hand made map of 3.7wx5 meters height in size, I went to inspect the space available and came down to the following... I'll position the Fuji GX680 against the centre of it with the 210mm lens on it and turn the 528c vertically, at a distance that the area it will cover will be the centre 1/9th + 20% of the whole map area... then I'll split the map in 9 equal areas (3 rows in 3 columns) and spot the centre of each of them... then I'll shoot the centre and do the rest by shifting the lens to centre each of the eight images left + 20% area at f16... Using a 210mm lens of much bigger image circle than the 37x49 area of the back at f16, will eliminate any chance for presence of vignetting in the image and the movement will be minimal in the image circle, more than that, I won't be reducing lens resolution as it would happen if one would frame the whole map using a view camera and would move the back using the rear standard as to cover the area.
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Just buy a couple of older multi shot backs as spares, they should be cheaper now as they are old technology.
problem solved.
+1... That's what most pros do. ...But they are NOT older technology! Not as far as MS is concerned anyway... :D
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For goodness sake, Hasselblad can't do anything right in some peoples eyes can they?
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I think they're phasing out the Kodak 50 megapixel sensor, which I suspect is going out of production soon(ish). It's only left in the H5D-50 now.
Kodak that became TrueSense Imaging that became ON Semiconductor has not exactly shown any progress in the large CCD niche since 2008 when the KAF-51000 was launched. That is it's not really only up to Hasselblad.
Of course they could make a multi-shot camera based on a Dalsa CCD instead... but the CMOS has some advantages too, I image that the extremely low noise is a big advantage in the 6-shot-to-200-megapixel interpolation algorithm.
Concerning pixel size it's not just as simple as to look at pixel pitch and say larger means more photons collected. The thing is that the photo-diode does not cover the full surface (and as the Kodak lacks microlenses it does not collect from the full surface either and therefore has about the lowest quantum efficiency you can find on the market today, but that does not really matter for multi-shot as you can just increase exposure). According to sensorgen.info the Kodak has 38000 electrons as full well capacity and a modern CMOS like in the D810 has as much as 78000, ie one stop more despite its smaller pixel pitch. Dalsa with same pixel size as the Kodak (6um) is inbetween at 53000.
The Kodak has some fine advantages such as the light shield and thus strong crosstalk suppression for us tech cam users, but it is aging technology.
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For goodness sake, Hasselblad can't do anything right in some peoples eyes can they?
They can do one thing right... the one thing they are doing wrong for a decade now... They can listen and act accordingly to the market demand! I hate to see Hasselblad to vanish just because some marketeers that have never exercised photography, want to decide for advanced photographers needs against the photographer's will...
What's to like with their last decade decisions? ...what's to like with the financial position that their own decisions have brought them at? ...what's to like for spending millions on trying to promote APS-c compacts and ask a fortune for it?
Hasselblad has the potential to recover and become stronger than ever IMO... they only have to correct all the mistakes they've done through out the last decade... Which is neither costly or complicated nor difficult to do!
Just some simple moves IMO: 1. Make H4X able to work with older backs from older or modern H bodies additionally to the rest of the makers. 2. Reintroduce the CF series by converting their current backs to stand alone ones.... Done!
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One hates to feed the trolls but I have been talking to some people who know and the CMOS offering is giving significantly better results than the Kodak ccd especially in multi-shot.
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For goodness sake, Hasselblad can't do anything right in some peoples eyes can they?
Actually they just did one thing right: http://www.hasselblad.com/products/h-system/h5x.aspx love it! ...it was about time! ...one of the things suggested above. :)
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I can't see anyone can spin a negative out of such positive news. Congrats to Hasselblad, particularly as the H5D camera is well ahead of the competition.
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I can't see anyone can spin a negative out of such positive news. Congrats to Hasselblad, particularly as the H5D camera is well ahead of the competition.
+1. But "congrats"? ...why? They are only redoing right what they were doing wrong for 10 years! I thought "congrats" is for innovation.. not for offering (at last) what others where offering all the time and only after there is a clear danger for disaster. Never the less, it's the first time I've started thinking of changing boats from Contax... thinking of Hassy was out of the question up to now! 8) I keep thinking of the penalty that H3/H3ii/H4 users are going to pay though, them been the only ones not invited... They surely have to come up with a solution for them, even if there is some cost involved. :)
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How on earth are H3/3DII/4D users disadvantaged? All of a sudden they have a back up body, right?
Some people need to accept the past and move on...
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How on earth are H3/3DII/4D users disadvantaged? All of a sudden they have a back up body, right?
Some people need to accept the past and move on...
Nope! ....H3/H3Dii & H4 users, are the only ones that don't have a back up body nor they can upgrade to one. Hasselblad must come up with a solution for them too. Even if that will mean that the back may need some modification under cost.
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That is indeed crazy :o
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That is indeed crazy :o
It's a part for what was happening up to now for the last 10 years.... From that POV "it's not crazy"... "Crazy" it may was Hasselblad's decisions... This seems to change with H5X and if they decide to provide their backs for other camera makers (like they were doing with the CF backs) and if they additionally provide a solution for the H3/H3ii/H4 owners... "competition" (what competition?) may be under (very) serious danger... ;) After all, who is P1 if compared with the history and tradition of Hasselblad, or Contax, or Leica, or Sinar, or Zeiss, or anybody else that has more than half a century of dedication into serving photography and photographers? 8)
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It's a part for what was happening up to now for the last 10 years.... From that POV "it's not crazy"... "Crazy" it may was Hasselblad's decisions... This seems to change with H5X and if they decide to provide their backs for other camera makers (like they were doing with the CF backs) and if they additionally provide a solution for the H3/H3ii/H4 owners... "competition" (what competition?) may be under (very) serious danger... ;) After all, who is P1 if compared with the history and tradition of Hasselblad, or Contax, or Leica, or Sinar, or Zeiss, or anybody else that has more than half a century of dedication into serving photography and photographers? 8)
I love the tradition and the legacy of achievement these companies have.
I also know that in todays world, what have you done for me lately is more critically relevant than ever.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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I love the tradition and the legacy of achievement these companies have.
I also know that in todays world, what have you done for me lately is more critically relevant than ever.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
+1..... But they have to continue in a fast pace! ::)
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For goodness sake, Hasselblad can't do anything right in some peoples eyes can they?
+1
Most of the people who complain about Hasselblad don't actually have one.
I went from a H1 then H2 with PhaseOne back to now an H3DII. The integrated back is a much better combination. So I would happily own a H5.
I use my Canon for what I need it for, but landscapes, portraits etc there is no comparison.
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+1
Most of the people who complain about Hasselblad don't actually have one.
How can they have a product that they have much to complain about? ??? I did't notice any to complain about the H5x... Can you upgrade to an H5x by the way? :-[
I went from a H1 then H2 with PhaseOne back to now an H3DII. The integrated back is a much better combination. So I would happily own a H5.
I use my Canon for what I need it for, but landscapes, portraits etc there is no comparison.
What about keeping your back and buy an H5? ...can you do that and save a fortune? ...I don't see H3Dii S/H prices up to what they would be for the same camera's quality, if it was a system that one can upgrade parts off... ;)
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How can they have a product that they have much to complain about? ??? I did't notice any to complain about the H5x... Can you upgrade to an H5x by the way? :-[
What about keeping your back and buy an H5? ...can you do that and save a fortune? ...I don't see H3Dii S/H prices up to what they would be for the same camera's quality, if it was a system that one can upgrade parts off... ;)
Mate, most people on forums are complaining about something. Go around this one and look at those complaining about say Epson printers. They still probably sell the most professional printers. Who else is complaining about the H5X, is has only just been announced I think? As I indicated, H3DII was much better integrated than the Phase back and I didn't have to carry two sets of batteries (and the Phase seriously ate batteries).
Actually I bought my H3D with back for less than the price of a Canon 5D3 body only (had 5D2), so it was no comparison. If you look at the price of a top of the range Canon or Nikon and add a decent lens then you are well into 5 figures for a 35mm camera.
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Nope! ....H3/H3Dii & H4 users, are the only ones that don't have a back up body nor they can upgrade to one.
Hasselblad users with an H3D/H3DII/H4D did have the opportunity to purchase a spare body when these digital systems were current and Hasselblad could calibrate the existing HxD digital magazine and spare HxD body for UltraFocus.
Hasselblad Bron Inc. is able to perform the Ultrafocus calibration for the H5x and H5D digital magazine in the US.
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Quentin, Thank you. ;D
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Everybody loves to bash Hasselblad, and they love them back.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1583963/hasselblad-sues-its-ex-boss-over-deals-sony
Edmund
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Mate, most people on forums are complaining about something. Go around this one and look at those complaining about say Epson printers. They still probably sell the most professional printers. Who else is complaining about the H5X, is has only just been announced I think? As I indicated, H3DII was much better integrated than the Phase back and I didn't have to carry two sets of batteries (and the Phase seriously ate batteries).
I also wonder... "who is complaing about the H5X"? ...and additionally was wondering, "who ever reeds the conversation"? ...certainly not you! :P
Actually I bought my H3D with back for less than the price of a Canon 5D3 body only (had 5D2), so it was no comparison. If you look at the price of a top of the range Canon or Nikon and add a decent ens then you are well into 5 figures for a 35mm camera.
Good for you! ...if it was a P1 or a Contax or an H5X (if it existed -which it could- at those days) you would have paid (at least) three times more... Do you think that the man who purchased it new was happy? ;D ...you've just confessed I'm right! :P
PS-Suggestion:... Read before entering a conversation and say nonsense!
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Hasselblad users with an H3D/H3DII/H4D did have the opportunity to purchase a spare body when these digital systems were current and Hasselblad could calibrate the existing HxD digital magazine and spare HxD body for UltraFocus.
Hasselblad Bron Inc. is able to perform the Ultrafocus calibration for the H5x and H5D digital magazine in the US.
So... "did have the opportunity" is an an excuse for Hassy not to provide them a "future"? ...Is that what was they are expecting when they first choose the product? ...Did Hasselblad warned them that "they'll be left in the desert" in the future? What if one couldn't afford a "spare body" in order to buy a Hassy? ...what if he had it planned for today? One thing is for sure... the "marketing boys of crap" that have forced Hasselblad to face disaster must never appear again in Hasselblad policies and Hassy must turn back and see how they can support these previous customers that trusted the company...
Now, lets just hope that there is a new start with the H5X... let's all think that things will never turn back and (in parallel into looking what can be done to satisfy H3/H3II/H4 customers) the company will return to a leading position...
My proposals (again):
1. Provide the opportunity for one to purchase an H5D back with an H5X camera (without buying the dedicated body).
2. Provide all the backs of the H5D bodies (especially the MS backs) as "open system - self contained" backs -like CF series was- for older cameras to use and for H5X compatibility... much preferably via an interchangeable adapter.
3. Redesign the lenses that are capable of lesser image circle than film 6x4.5 to be compatible with the full image area.
4. Start designing a (future) H6X that will have a focal plane shutter build in the body ...a focal plane shutter of new technology that will be fast enough to sync flash up to 1/250.
If you do the (simple to do) above... You'll be back as the leader in photography... if you don't... :'( :-*
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Everybody loves to bash Hasselblad, and they love them back.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1583963/hasselblad-sues-its-ex-boss-over-deals-sony
Edmund
Its more a matter of Hasselblad stop thinking that people ought to love it than trying to gain their love... They have the technology, they have the base of the product, they have the quality needed, only thing that is missing is to diminise stupidity of their people that make the decisions... Once upon the time, photographers (true ones) were deciding for photographic needs... not stupid "golden boys" of crap! :o
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Its more a matter of Hasselblad stop thinking that people ought to love it than trying to gain their love... They have the technology, they have the base of the product, they have the quality needed, only thing that is missing is to diminise stupidity of their people that make the decisions... Once upon the time, photographers (true ones) were deciding for photographic needs... not stupid "golden boys" of crap! :o
Theodoros, do you ever read the links in the posts you reply to?
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1583963/hasselblad-sues-its-ex-boss-over-deals-sony
Edmund
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Theodoros, do you ever read the links in the posts you reply to?
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1583963/hasselblad-sues-its-ex-boss-over-deals-sony
Edmund
Yes I did... I still think that it wasn't one man's policy over the years... To take a position in a company and apply a policy, you first are interviewed by share holders, you explain what your actions will be, the plan is agreed and then it's applied... Unless if Hasselblad's latest owners didn't know what they were investing on with a company that had the same policy before it was ever sold to them... ??? Q.E.D ;)
EDIT: In other words the problem is FAR BEYOND Lunars and Stellars.... which were just another "bright idea" of how to overcome the crisis which the decisions that were taken for the MF products policy created! 8)