Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Ligament on July 28, 2014, 03:58:49 am

Title: Which carbon ink sets are 100% carbon?
Post by: Ligament on July 28, 2014, 03:58:49 am

I'm new to the printing world, this is probably a very basic question for you guys.

As far as I understand, there are two carbon ink sets: Piezography and MIS Eboni.

Piezography has multiple versions of various tone. I assume these versions contain pigment ink to tone the carbon.

The question is:
1. Which versions are 100% carbon without any added color pigments?
2. What differences are there between the 100% carbon Piezography and 100% carbon Eboni ink sets in the final print?
3. Which of the various ink sets from these manufacturers offer the best permanence (paper being the same)?

Thanks in advance!

Title: Re: Which carbon ink sets are 100% carbon?
Post by: Paul Roark on July 28, 2014, 10:59:45 am

MIS's "Eboni" inksets are 100% carbon.  MIS PK, LK, and LLK are also 100% carbon.  I believe Jon Cone's carbon sepia is also 100% carbon.  All of the other B&W inksets and the OEM LK and LLK inks have color pigments blended into the carbon. It can take approximately 50% color pigment to 50% glossy carbon to make a neutral gray ink.

See http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ for the lightfastness tests of Eboni and Carbon Sepia.

Although I have not updated it recently, page 2 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf has some delta-e numbers from these tests that give a quick comparison of inksets.

Eboni is unique in that it is the most neutral of the carbon inksets.  (Bob Zeiss, founder of MIS, and I spent a lot of time looking for and testing carbon pigments to find the one that gave the best dmax and was relatively cool/neutral.)  At page 10 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf I have a graph of the Lab B values for Eboni-6 on Epson Hot Press Natural, one of the most neutral-printing papers.  Lab B values measure the warmth of carbon most clearly.  At the low end, Epson Hot Press will hold the increase in Lab B from the paper white to the maximum value to about 1.5.  Many papers are in the range of an increase of 4 to 5.  MIS PK, LK, and LLK as well as Cone carbon sepia have increases on matte paper of about 8.  Carbon on glossy paper can reach a Lab B value increase of 14.

When we judge the warmth of a print, our eyes will use a nearby white reference for our brain's "auto white balance."  Thus, I find the paper white to maximum Lab B to be more significant than the absolute Lab B values for judging the warmth of prints that are aimed at being hung on the walls.  With the relatively neutral printing papers like Epson Hot Press, the maximum Lab B of the print will be about the same warmth as a natural white mat board.  I currently recommend Alpharag Artcare, 8 ply, Pearl White, #8647.8.


(Note that one of the variables in warmth for most papers is the drop size.  Larger drops are cooler.  With my old 7500, I could make a print on Premier Art Smooth Fine Art Bright White that had a Lab B value (absolute, not relative to paper base) that never went above Lab B = 0.  That is, I could actually make a cold, 100% carbon print.  However, the paper does have brighteners, and I do not recommend the 7500 as a printer.  You need the modern Epson large format cart-to-printer coupling to be able to reliably remove the carts for agitation.  All pigments settle; Eboni settles slightly faster than the OEM dilute pigments according to my centrifuge testing.)

I might add that with Eboni-6 and QTR, printing on uncoated Arches watercolor paper becomes very feasible.  I consider "full sheets" (22 x 30 inches) of Arches Hot Press printed with Eboni-6 to be my top medium where one wants the absolute best possibility of a print that will actually last and look good for hundreds of years.

(Note that I have no financial connection with MIS or the sale of "Eboni" inks.  I just design what I want on an open source basis, and MIS has chosen to commercialize some of these designs.  To avoid undo profiteering from my work, I also publish the formula for a generic dilution base for Eboni MK, which MIS also decided to commercialize, but at a very inexpensive price.)

Hope this helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Title: Re: Which carbon ink sets are 100% carbon?
Post by: Ligament on July 28, 2014, 04:17:28 pm

Wow Paul, what a great response. thanks so much!

Quote from: Paul Roark on July 28, 2014, 10:59:45 am

MIS's "Eboni" inksets are 100% carbon.  MIS PK, LK, and LLK are also 100% carbon.  I believe Jon Cone's carbon sepia is also 100% carbon.  All of the other B&W inksets and the OEM LK and LLK inks have color pigments blended into the carbon. It can take approximately 50% color pigment to 50% glossy carbon to make a neutral gray ink.

See http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ for the lightfastness tests of Eboni and Carbon Sepia.

Although I have not updated it recently, page 2 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf has some delta-e numbers from these tests that give a quick comparison of inksets.

Eboni is unique in that it is the most neutral of the carbon inksets.  (Bob Zeiss, founder of MIS, and I spent a lot of time looking for and testing carbon pigments to find the one that gave the best dmax and was relatively cool/neutral.)  At page 10 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf I have a graph of the Lab B values for Eboni-6 on Epson Hot Press Natural, one of the most neutral-printing papers.  Lab B values measure the warmth of carbon most clearly.  At the low end, Epson Hot Press will hold the increase in Lab B from the paper white to the maximum value to about 1.5.  Many papers are in the range of an increase of 4 to 5.  MIS PK, LK, and LLK as well as Cone carbon sepia have increases on matte paper of about 8.  Carbon on glossy paper can reach a Lab B value increase of 14.

When we judge the warmth of a print, our eyes will use a nearby white reference for our brain's "auto white balance."  Thus, I find the paper white to maximum Lab B to be more significant than the absolute Lab B values for judging the warmth of prints that are aimed at being hung on the walls.  With the relatively neutral printing papers like Epson Hot Press, the maximum Lab B of the print will be about the same warmth as a natural white mat board.  I currently recommend Alpharag Artcare, 8 ply, Pearl White, #8647.8.


(Note that one of the variables in warmth for most papers is the drop size.  Larger drops are cooler.  With my old 7500, I could make a print on Premier Art Smooth Fine Art Bright White that had a Lab B value (absolute, not relative to paper base) that never went above Lab B = 0.  That is, I could actually make a cold, 100% carbon print.  However, the paper does have brighteners, and I do not recommend the 7500 as a printer.  You need the modern Epson large format cart-to-printer coupling to be able to reliably remove the carts for agitation.  All pigments settle; Eboni settles slightly faster than the OEM dilute pigments according to my centrifuge testing.)

I might add that with Eboni-6 and QTR, printing on uncoated Arches watercolor paper becomes very feasible.  I consider "full sheets" (22 x 30 inches) of Arches Hot Press printed with Eboni-6 to be my top medium where one wants the absolute best possibility of a print that will actually last and look good for hundreds of years.

(Note that I have no financial connection with MIS or the sale of "Eboni" inks.  I just design what I want on an open source basis, and MIS has chosen to commercialize some of these designs.  To avoid undo profiteering from my work, I also publish the formula for a generic dilution base for Eboni MK, which MIS also decided to commercialize, but at a very inexpensive price.)

Hope this helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com