Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Kaypee on July 16, 2014, 05:26:05 pm
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Apologies if this veers away from MF but as it seems to be the place where most arch photographers post I thought (hoped!) it would be ok.
I am shooting the interior of a college with large class rooms and a number of shots will require the students to be in shot. Usually I would be carrying a number of flash heads (Bowens) but I would like to travel light as possible and wanted to see if there was a lighter alternative. As its multiple people and i wont be directing them I would rather not be dragging the shutter, and thought there may be some other lights on the market that would a bit more manageable without an assistant.
Thanks
KP
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what u think about speedlights type lights? i use studio light bowens too, but when i need to move i have 3 speedlights, i use nikon , metz and yongnuo , yongnuo is cheap and works very good for me :) , a good tips for me when i shoot a lot of people together i use spherical diffusers on my speedlights, i have gary fong http://www.dvshop.ca/digcamera/images/garyfongcollapsible.jpg is not cheap but is good and collapsable, i know are other alternatives in cheaper way.
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Thanks for that. I think speed lights might be underpowered and a bit hard as a light form. Has anyone used LED's or hmi's for larger spaces. I haven't used either myself.
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Can we have some more information, like what kind of classrooms will you be shooting? Are they lecture halls with stadium seating? Do these rooms have a large amount of windows? If so, do the windows have shades? Are you there are at specific time or do you have ann day? Are they old buildings? Are the ceilings white or another color?
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Hi Jo. It's class rooms with a rough size of about 20 x 30 feet. they have chairs and a small number of computers but its mainly desks. The walls will vary greatly but they all have display on them so there isnt likely to be anything flat and white. The ceilings are suspended and quite low, light grey colour with fluorescent tubes. Most class rooms have windows and some have shades. The build itself is 1980's so its a relatively modern feel. I can shoot at anytime really but there needs to be a variety of shots, some with just the class rooms and some with classrooms and students.
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Apologies if this veers away from MF but as it seems to be the place where most arch photographers post I thought (hoped!) it would be ok.
I am shooting the interior of a college with large class rooms and a number of shots will require the students to be in shot. Usually I would be carrying a number of flash heads (Bowens) but I would like to travel light as possible and wanted to see if there was a lighter alternative. As its multiple people and i wont be directing them I would rather not be dragging the shutter, and thought there may be some other lights on the market that would a bit more manageable without an assistant.
Thanks
KP
I find it hard to give an answer since it really depends on a lot of factors: Budget and time, creative direction / desired result and location specifics (interior colors, surfaces / finishes, existing lighting, available natural light).
I have done interior shots with just the available light, with available light + continuous light sources that I setup, combination of available + flash or flash only lighting. It depends.
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Thanks Ken. I'm quite comfortable with flash and with available light. I'm not really looking for a 'how to' just some other options for lighting.
Obviously I will be considering all the points you suggested but as I have never experimented with continuous lighting I was hoping more for some pointers on what other lighting options people are using that might be lighter than flash heads. I have time to test and its important to branch out into other techniques you're not familiar with, especially if you can find versions that might save my poor back!
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I personally hate to see curtains or blinds drawn during the day in my images and I always avoid doing this at all cost. Venetian blinds you could just get away with by opening the slats to allow some daylight through but sometimes on bright days this can cause problems. The simplest answer would be allow as much available light in via the windows, turn the room lights off and shoot with your back to the windows and not get them in the shots. I'd then use some silver collapsable reflectors or a Speedlight or two through a transparent brolly to kick some light back into the key subject in the scene.
If you want more options and the luxury of lighting the scene with a bit more control do you have the option to hire or buy a battery generator? I've got a similar job coming up (without people) in Central London that doesn't have a massive budget and I going to travel with a Flash pack (Broncolor Move) and two heads, travel stands in a back pack case along with a bag of camera equipment and I imaging it should cover most of what you need to do in your situation.
All other types of daylight balanced lighting (Kino's, LED) are usually not powerful enough to balance a scene and the fall off on these soft light sources is pretty drastic. HMI's would work but are normally the size of flash packs so no real gains if you want to travel light.
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I'm with you on blinds. I put often put some diffusion panels up outside out of site to even out the day light if need be. Not needed all that much in the UK though!
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Not needed all that much in the UK though!
I don't know, been pretty good all summer this year.
I think your best bet is still flash lighting - the Profoto AcuteB2's are brilliant packs (I loved mine) and preferred them over the new B1's by a long stretch. You can get a splitter cable now to run two heads out of one pack and you can get some good deals on them now as its old tech. Tiny little pack and tiny heads that pack a big punch.
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Sounds better than my Bowens - they seem to be getting heavier! i will try renting them and see how they go. Are you using anything else with them Lowels or spots ?
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Bowens are great workhorse lights and I still have and use some of their kit as it just doesn't break. Built to last but big heavy and cumbersome for travel and especially troublesome now you have to jump through hoops filling in reports, HSE paperwork and have an electrician on site just to plug something into the mains - a major reason why I went battery.
I tend to stick with flash lighting (for the above reason) and if a need tungsten I'll gel or use modelling lights.
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I wouldn't bother with HMI's they are not exactly mobile if you are on your own especially with the ballast, plus you can't switch them on/off repeatedly if they don't warm up and stabilise.
Something like elinchrom rangers would be worth looking at, more power and spread than a flash gun and very mobile.
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Have you tried LED panels? Not tried them myself and not sure they have the power but I have seen them used on product and the were quite effective. I use the bowens with a dish for fill usually and the sport adapter for highlights/accents. I'm not sure Elinchrom do anything similar. I have seen other people use hmi's for the same purpose and combining with flash, but like you say there seems to be no real saving in weight.
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If you are on a limited budget and have a limited amount of time to set up the lighting, I would try shooting at dawn and dusk, especially if you need to have the blinds open. If shooting during the day is necessary, drawing the blinds would be best, especially it the windows are on just one wall. Leaving them open will produce considerable light fall off in this instance. Also schedule each image when the sunlight is not directly shining into the room.
If you have some time to set up lights between classes, I would use two lights, one either side of the room, and have them bounce off of the ceiling. If the ceiling is a light grey and close to being neutral, you should not have a problem with loosing light and/or color shifts. Place the lights as low as you can so the spread is as even a possible. Get some Cinefoil to shape the burst so they do not spill into the image. After that, think about having one or two soft boxes with grids on them to project light into the far end of the classroom.
This the best I can suggest without seeing your budget, site plans, scouting shots and knowing what the logistics/schedule of the college.
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Thanks Ken. I'm quite comfortable with flash and with available light. I'm not really looking for a 'how to' just some other options for lighting.
Obviously I will be considering all the points you suggested but as I have never experimented with continuous lighting I was hoping more for some pointers on what other lighting options people are using that might be lighter than flash heads. I have time to test and its important to branch out into other techniques you're not familiar with, especially if you can find versions that might save my poor back!
If the shot is going to be wide angle then it is quite difficult to position light sources so as they do not show in the frame. In those cases I prefer to use small light sources that I can hide but creating pleasing lighting patterns is also very difficult. Lighting designers spend quite a bit of time doing this for architecture projects so generally if the existing lighting is good I leave it as is and work with it as much as I can (dimmers etc).
Regarding specific light instruments I love the Arri AS18 (1800 watt HMi) for simulating sunlight. I have placed it outside and point it at the windows and it floods the space with natural looking, late afternoon like, light (gel it to adjust color temperature). I think it is the most powerful continuous light you can plug in to a standard outlet.
Of course you can do the same with flash and a large reflector (like the Profoto Magnum) and it is easier to work with.
I use profoto acute packs and heads and an array of accessories. Easy to control and setup.
When a power outlet is not readily available and/or when I want to setup a light away from where one is close (like outside the windows) I use alien bees connected to a vagabond lithium battery pack. It is a cheap and effective portable flash power setup.
Kino Flo fluorescent lights are also great and are available in a wide range of sizes. They are generally quite flat and so are easy to put against a wall. Since they use several tubes they generally put out a soft pleasing light so they do not require a soft box for that effect. The light blends well with existing lights. The tubes are available in daylight and tungsten so choose the one you want for the desired temperature. Some people mix them in the same lamp. Kino Flo's are fast and easy to setup and safe to work with since they are pretty lightweight and cool to the touch.
Cinefoil is AWESOME to control the spill of lights into surfaces. Love to use it with flash so as not to have the tell tale hot spot near its location that shows you where the light is.
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Cinefoil is AWESOME to control the spill of lights into surfaces. Love to use it with flash so as not to have the tell tale hot spot near its location that shows you where the light is.
+1
Cinefoil is great and saved me on many occasions. I even use it as a lens shade for my wide lenses.
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It's sounds more like you need simple more then complex, but you don't give enough info regarding the layout of the shot. I would think available light and then balance several umbrella's to the room lights. Maybe add a bounce off a white card. I shoot with dynalite. Small and put out a lot of power.
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We dont have Dynalite in the UK as far as im aware. I know someone in Philadelphia who swears by them. Some really interesting advice coming through. I'm glad i asked the question. If you are using the strobes with fluorescent lights on, are gelling the strobes to match the flo's or correcting in post?
I'm finding the white balance adjustment brushes in Lightroom a bit hit and miss.
Capture 1 I presume is better?
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Hello,
I have a set of these Conomark battery power flash units. I use these when the Bowens generators are to heavy or there's no mains.
They are built like tanks and the batteries last. They also take Bowens light shapers.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400W-3G-Wireless-Portable-Studio-Flash-Lighting-Kit-with-remote-battery-S346-/400478374450?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d3e5f0a32
Another good brand of portable battery powered flash is the Jinbei HD600 flash unit. It also has a Bowens mount.
http://www.goldenshell.com.cn/en/productsDetalis.asp?id=1486
I was told by the NZ distributor that they are bring out a new model that will flash sync with Nikon and Conon up 8,000th Sec.
Cheers
Simon
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I would gel them to match ambient, since it does save time in post; plus you will retain more color saturation and linearity. But what colors you need could and will vary on many things. Most importantly would be how much of the room is lit with light coming in through the windows vs the room lights?
If the former, you will need more blue in your lights, and that could vary depending on the time of day. It the latter, you will need more Straw and green in your lights.
Also, you kind of have to know if the bulbs are warm tone or cold tone to get an exact match? And sometimes people run out and buy a different kind then what they started with, so there could be a mix. It is hard to know what to bring in terms of gels without scouting and taking color light readings.
My advice, bring as many colors as you can afford to buy and eyeball it on location. Or you could bring one or two generic sets of gels and do the rest in post.
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Those conomarks look interesting. Is the colour temp consistent with them?
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'taking color light readings'. Are you using a colour meter Jo? Also are you using LR or capture 1 for your colour adjustments? I hear C1 is better so might trial it.
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I've not used Lightroom for a long while (version 2) but my understanding is that both are on par regarding colour adjustments. C1's advanced colour editor tool is excellent and great for subtle colour shifts or desaturating specific colours. It can also be painted on an adjustment layer so only effecting specific areas of an image. However, it can't make huge colour changes like the way adjusting the global colour balance does (eg. 2700K household lightbulbs to 5500K daylight).
One extremely useful tool to architectural photographers that C1 does not have but LR does is the ability to adjust colour balance on an adjustment layer and I've no idea why C1 STILL does not offer this?
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One extremely useful tool to architectural photographers that C1 does not have but LR does is the ability to adjust colour balance on an adjustment layer and I've no idea why C1 STILL does not offer this?
I'm intrigued. Is that on an Photoshop adjustment layer imported into LR or using the layer plug in?
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I might be getting my names mixed up....
Local adjustments in C1 are done with 'adjustment layers' but I think in LR its not layers, just adjustment brush? Sorry, very rusty on LR and very institutionalised with C1.
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I thought I was missing something exciting then! You can brush on colour adjustments in the same way you can on ACR in Lightroom. I think that came in through version 4 or 5.
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I thought I was missing something exciting then!
All the same, being able to paint on a colour balance adjustment that only effects a specific area of on image is very exciting to a C1 user...... well to me at least!
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Apologies if this veers away from MF but as it seems to be the place where most arch photographers post I thought (hoped!) it would be ok.
I am shooting the interior of a college with large class rooms and a number of shots will require the students to be in shot. Usually I would be carrying a number of flash heads (Bowens) but I would like to travel light as possible and wanted to see if there was a lighter alternative. As its multiple people and i wont be directing them I would rather not be dragging the shutter, and thought there may be some other lights on the market that would a bit more manageable without an assistant.
Thanks
KP
I think I might consider mini battery/pack systems like Lumedyne, Elinchrom or Norman. Or, alternatively, maybe Quantums?