Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: ButchM on July 11, 2014, 09:43:13 am
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Watch this video report:
Lr CC 5.5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozbf05w0cPQ&feature=youtu.be)
I, and others, on this (and other forums) were regularly scolded for complaining about Adobe CC lacking an equitable exit strategy.
We were told for $10 a month we should either sign up or shut up as it wasn't worth it (or it was purely unfair) to request such an option. Apparently, Adobe thought it wasn't out of the realm of possibilities.
This option (as well as the $10 deal) was not going to show up if we didn't ask for it. At least a few of us thought that if Adobe did in fact "listen" and come up with the the PhotoPackage offering the Ps and Lr combo ... they could take it a step further ... though I never dreamed it would be offered gratis. (I expected a balloon payment buyout or something similar.)
Now, even I am going to strongly consider the possibility of adopting CC ... at least it merits further investigation.
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But see this:
Lightroom and Creative Cloud (http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/07/what-happens-to-lightroom-after-my-membership-ends.html).
This is from Tom Hogarty, Lightroom's Product Manager.
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But see this:
Lightroom and Creative Cloud (http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/07/what-happens-to-lightroom-after-my-membership-ends.html).
This is from Tom Hogarty, Lightroom's Product Manager.
What is the "but" about?
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What I find interesting is that Hogarty's comments imply that LR CC customers who stop their subscriptions would continue to receive CC updates to LR that they would be able to take advantage of for all modules except Map and Develop.
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Quote from Tom Hogarty official post on the Lightroom Journal.
"Since the launch of the Creative Cloud, Adobe has engaged in an ongoing dialog with the photographic community. We’ve tackled mobile workflows, provided ongoing enhancements and lastly, provided a membership plan tailor made for all levels of photographers. With the latest update to Lightroom 5.5 I believe we’ve also addressed a lingering concern in the community: What happens to my photographs after my membership ends? With Lightroom 5.5, at the end of a membership, the desktop application will continue to launch and provide access to the photographs managed within Lightroom as well as the Slideshow, Web, Book or Print creations that we know many photographers painstakingly create. The Develop and Map modules have been disabled in order to signal the end of the membership and the need to renew in order to receive Adobe’s continuous innovation in those areas. Access to Lightroom mobile workflows will also cease to function. We hope this meets the expectations of our customers and we look forward to an ongoing dialog."
I think it is quite clear that this refers to users who make use of the Creative Cloud subscription. There is nothing there that suggests this will affect users with a perpetual license.
Quote "What I find interesting is that Hogarty's comments imply that LR CC customers who stop their subscriptions would continue to receive CC updates to LR that they would be able to take advantage of for all modules except Map and Develop."
Where in the above quote from Tom is this implied or stated.
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What I find interesting is that Hogarty's comments imply that LR CC customers who stop their subscriptions would continue to receive CC updates to LR that they would be able to take advantage of for all modules except Map and Develop.
I fail to see where Hogarty stated any such thing about receiving updates ... he only stated "access" to all the modules except Develop and Maps ... that does not imply that any additional updates or support would be offered once a subscriber stops paying.
Specifically, Hogarty offered:
"the desktop application will continue to launch and provide access to the photographs managed within Lightroom as well as the Slideshow, Web, Book or Print creations that we know many photographers painstakingly create.
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There is nothing there that suggests this will affect users with a perpetual license.
I don't think anyone ever stated it applied to perpetual licenses.
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What is the "but" about?
See here:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=91517.20 (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=91517.20)
Was confused. Now slightly embarrassed.
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Well, as far as I'm concerned this is much-ado-about-nothing. As long as Adobe continues to sell Lightroom as a perpetual license we can always upgrade or buy the perpetual license. And I very much doubt that they will stop doing that, because it isn't so hard to move to other excellent raw developers like Capture One.
But if they ever do then I'm out of Lightroom like a shot!
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Well, as far as I'm concerned this is much-ado-about-nothing.
As far as owners of perpetual licences are concerned, it is irrelevant.
As far as subscribers are concerned, it is very important.
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It is obviously speculation on my part but here is the logic that I applied to what Hogarty wrote:
First, what he wrote: "The Develop and Map modules have been disabled in order to signal the end of the membership and the need to renew in order to receive Adobe’s continuous innovation in those areas."
If one assumes that "continuous innovation" is synonimous with the CC updates then his mention of losing access to those updates in just "those areas" would seem to imply that it won't be lost in the other areas (Library, for example). In fact, it would be reasonable to assume I think that all parts of LR CC will continue to be updated. You will just be locked-out of Develop and Map.
I am kind of curious about this because a lot of people have laughed off the possibility of Adobe giving perpetual access to the software at a particular version level, once a customer has paid a certain amount of "dues". And I can understand the complications that would entail (how to track exactly what version the customer had access to, support issues, etc.). What I suspect is that to avoid these complications Adobe will continue to apply updates but shut-off access to certain functionality - probably an easier thing to manage on an account-by-account basis.
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"signal the end of membership" I would think this implies that there would be no further service from the Creative Cloud. It is also possible for you to communicate directly with Tom at the link below.
http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/07/what-happens-to-lightroom-after-my-membership-ends.html#comments
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Well, as far as I'm concerned this is much-ado-about-nothing. As long as Adobe continues to sell Lightroom as a perpetual license we can always upgrade or buy the perpetual license. And I very much doubt that they will stop doing that, because it isn't so hard to move to other excellent raw developers like Capture One.
But if they ever do then I'm out of Lightroom like a shot!
I agree.....but I think, and hope, that they are very aware of that. Right now they are in a great position that only they can screw up.
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"signal the end of membership" I would think this implies that there would be no further service from the Creative Cloud. It is also possible for you to communicate directly with Tom at the link below.
http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/07/what-happens-to-lightroom-after-my-membership-ends.html#comments
I do not think there is any implication at all. When you end you CC membership the update program will no longer work.
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It is obviously speculation on my part but here is the logic that I applied to what Hogarty wrote:
First, what he wrote: "The Develop and Map modules have been disabled in order to signal the end of the membership and the need to renew in order to receive Adobe’s continuous innovation in those areas."
These could be two statements which have been conflated.
Statement 1:
“The Develop and Map modules [will be] disabled in order to signal the end of the membership and the need to renew”
Statement 2:
“the need to renew in order to receive Adobe’s continuous innovation in those areas” (and perhaps, in all “areas”).
In which case you have a disablement of the Develop and Map Modules, and therefore a signal that you need to renew your membership, and in addition if you renew your membership you will continue to receive ‘innovation’ in those and other areas.
I believe both Eyeball's interpretation and the one above are equally valid.
The statement quoted is equivocated and open to interpretation is it not ?
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The statement quoted is equivocated and open to interpretation is it not ?
Only if you believe Adobe is going to offer you updates indefinitely ... for free.
While I can, and do recognize their generosity in offering access to files processed in Lr CC if a subscriber suspends payment ... I seriously doubt Adobe is going to offer free updates for the Library, Slideshow, Book and Web modules. What would be the benefit to them.
By all means, interpret the comments any way you wish, but I think you meat be a bit unrealistic and have some extreme expectations ...
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I seriously doubt Adobe is going to offer free updates for the Library, Slideshow, Book and Web modules. What would be the benefit to them.
OK, let me give you a nudge. Lightroom will keep working after you end your subscription or after the expiry of a 30 day trial.
As for the benefits to Adobe, a proportion will then buy/subscribe.
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Only if you believe Adobe is going to offer you updates indefinitely ... for free.
While I can, and do recognize their generosity in offering access to files processed in Lr CC if a subscriber suspends payment ... I seriously doubt Adobe is going to offer free updates for the Library, Slideshow, Book and Web modules. What would be the benefit to them.
By all means, interpret the comments any way you wish, but I think you meat be a bit unrealistic and have some extreme expectations ...
I don't believe this, but some do (see the blog below). Thus the need for clarity.
http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/07/what-happens-to-lightroom-after-my-membership-ends.html
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Well they did just that with us - they screwed up and we have asked for $ back.
Absolutely sick of getting no call backs to fix issues that a lot of people are having.
They are quite simply useless.
After weeks of mucking around - it looks as if I am after over 14 years of supporting Adobe .... leaving Photoshop and Adobe ....
:O(
They say they support us -- promise to call you back and fix your problems .... then leave you for weeks doing nothing!
You call them back ... whats going on you ask .... you explain the issues again ...... they attempt to fix them ...... nope no luck.
We will call you back tomorrow to fix it for you. .......
Again ... no calls at all - you wait for days .... a week no calls ......
Yep this Cloud stuff works well guys - thanks for the frustration - you ask again via email for help ..... third - fourth time ... again do we have to try to get you to help ..... or at least do what you say you will ... call back ?
If you cant fix it .... if you cant even call us back when you say you will ..... why should we believe anything you say?
I know many users are ok with what you have done and many are using your cloud with limited or no issues.
But the measure of a person / company is not what you can do when things are great - but how you support those with issues ... and in this case you have failed.
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They probably couldn't figure out what you were babbling on about?
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Uh...just so you know, this isn't an Adobe forum...so you aren't talking to Adobe here (you might want to quit copy/pasting your posts all over the place). We get it...you aren't happy...
So, you want help? Post the vitals: App, OS, CPU and maybe a little clue about what problems you are having?
Seriously, if you want help, fine...if you want to rant & rave, go away and leave LuLa cause you won't be getting much in the way of actual "help".
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Really - you are saying this in this forum ......
I agreed with you on the support forum but have you read this forum.
Others in here have done the same and yet you see fit to write this in here- on my post but not others.
As it is they have responded to the cross platform spread and are looking at helping.
Turns out some over there did not - or were not made aware of what was happening.
Bad communications.
Now they know.
I too work in the support and public arena - we do not treat even our smallest customers the way we were treated and we were left with no other avenue.
I am exceptionally grateful for this forum and some others for being in existence - so the small voices - ones like us can have a voice - no matter what people like you say.
Thank you to the others whom have sent a PM with advice - it has helped.
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Start your own thread, don't hijack someone else's, explain your problem clearly, and you'll probably get the kind of answers that might help you.
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Thank you for your advice.
Please accept my apologies for hijacking this thread - it was not my intent.
I had not realised it was what I was doing.
Nor was it to stir up the agro of some.