Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: JV on May 19, 2014, 11:46:14 pm
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Only a rumor but I, for one, would love this:
http://www.fujirumors.com/digital-medium-format-camera-fujifilm-coming-end-summer-new-anonymous-source/
If somebody can pull this off it is definitely Fuji.
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That could be interesting. Fuji colors and lens quality at 50mp!
I guess that it would be using the Sony chip with their own filtering.
This makes a lot of sense considering the long legacy of Fuji rangefinder style MF cameras.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I saw the same rumor - its circulating facebook. ;)
But I'm sure a large sensor rangefinder would be welcome ... always thought it would be the Mamiya 7 especially with the Phase connection, but one of the Fuji folders would be cool too.
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With the Sony 50MP MF sensor out just about any of the major players can make a MF Digital camera. Fuji makes the Blad H and lenses. They have lot's of experience with Medium Format. Their optics are superb.
I don't see anyone else making Digital Backs though, other than Phase/Leaf (and Hasselblad, sorta, since the backs of the H#D cameras can be detached but can't be purchased separately and are not really designed to operate as such)
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This would be truly fantastic if true. Seems pie-in-the-sky, but who knows. Now that the chip is cheap, plentiful and proven, some real camera companies may start using it as Pentax already has.
- N.
ps. for sake of clarity, by 'real', I mean companies with the capital, talent and ability to produce a camera a professional photographer would actually want to buy and use in 2014 ;)
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Maybe bigger sensors will finally go mainstream again. 35mm is a historical aberration.
Edmund
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A 21st century Texas Leica? I'd be all over that...but consider me skeptical. OTOH a declining mainstream camera market may actually encourage the development & production of more niche products over time. Seems to me a 44x33mm frame size should make for a fairly compact rangefinder system.
-Dave-
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I'd love such a camera. Still remember my Fuji GSW690iii very fondly, including that 65mm lens. The Mamiya 7II was sharper, but almost too much contrast for film to handle. And the 680 with all of those wonderful lenses and that huge format. It must be Fuji!
Also gives Fuji a new medium format platform that sets it apart from the Sonyblads. They probably can use a lot of electronics from their X-series, like Pentax used their K3 electronics for the 645Z. Sounds almost logical too me.
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35mm is a historical aberration.
Of course it is ... but with 120 and 220 roll film available, there was the fairly easy option of a somewhat larger format like 645, so the main historical aberration was the persistence of 135 film as the minimum common format size for half a century despite the great improvements in resolution and sensitivity which have driven an overall centuries-long trend to expanded use of smaller formats. This aberration was probably driven largely by the excellent economies of scale in 135 film production, processing, and printing, which locked in 135 film and cameras as usually cheaper than the various smaller film formats that were tried,and never significantly more expensive. Of course, that historical accident was demolished by the digital transition, which has reduced 35mm format to a relatively small high-end niche compared to its role in the film era, with about 1% of its former overall usage.
TL;DR: predicting any significant trend towards larger formats is bizarrely counter-factual.
Not that this rules out the specific idea of Fujifilm making a high end niche camera using the new Sony 44x33mm sensor, but it seems a risky investment idea to either tie a multi-thousand dollar item to a single lens, or to commit to the expense of developing multiple new AF lenses for a new "large digital format" system. Pentax already has AF lenses usable on its "645" digital bodies, and Leica has a prestigious reputation that allows it to charge extremely high prices for its S system bodies and lenses, whereas Fujifilm has neither.
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The one thing which no one here appears to consider is that with huge wafer size increases, "MF" sensors prices may now be heading well south of $1K whe purchased in "real" quantities, , enabling camera prices commensurate with FF within a couple of years. The Sony 50MP sensor doesn't have that much greater area than 35mm, and area and unit sales numbers are what counts.
The reason nobody is considering this lowball scenario is the brainwashing by inflated Phase and H prices, themselves justified by the initially high sensor pricing of the first generation ...
I think we're headed for the $4K mirrorless MF body and in this context fixed lens cameras make perfect sense. Think Hasselblad SWC, the price wouldn't be much higher. The surprisingly strong sales of the Sigma DP series have shown the market can still love slow and simple single-use high quality devices, that they are economically viable, and can be manufactured at a lower pricepoint than more complex SLRs.
Edmund
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The one thing which no one here appears to consider is that with huge wafer size increases, "MF" sensors prices may now be heading well south of $1K whe purchased in "real" quantities, , enabling camera prices commensurate with FF within a couple of years. ...
The reason nobody is considering this lowball scenario is the brainwashing by inflated Phase and H prices ...
I do not see how huge wafers have much effect; they only modestly increase the fraction of the wafer than can be covered by sensors, especially given the industry practice of packing some smaller sensors into the gaps around the big ones. As far as price comparisons, I look at Pentax not P1 or H, and there, apart from sensor size, the 645Z is equipped only about as well as the least expensive of 35mm format DSLRs (< $2000) so those are the models to compare with on costs and likely prices, not the top-of-the-line 35mm format DSLRs.
In that comparison, "entry level 44x33mm" format costs more than "entry level 35mm" by a factor of four or more, or a difference of $6000 or more. So talk of sub-$1000 prices on 44x33mm sensors sounds like wishful thinking to me. As to economies of scale, the system camera sales volume ratios from "bigger than 35m to "35mm" to "smaller than 35mm" is about 1:100:1000 and the vast entrenched lens systems in 35mm format and smaller, and the fact that these smaller formats are perceived as "good enough" by about 99.9% of photographers, make it very unlikely that any large format camera or sensor can get volume up enough to avoid a substantial price gap, in turn maintaining the difficulty of getting volume up ...
But perhaps I should leave people to their optimistic fantasies about a major shift towards bigger cameras; like most fantasies, they are probably harmless!
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As far as price comparisons, I look at Pentax not P1 or H, and there, apart from sensor size, the 645Z is equipped only about as well as the least expensive of 35mm format DSLRs (< $2000) so those are the models to compare with on costs and likely prices, not the top-of-the-line 35mm format DSLRs.
Isn't that a bit harsh on the 645Z?
In my view it is very close to the D800/5DIII in terms of physical specs, except probably in the AF domain where Pentax simply doesn't have the right components to compete with Nikon and Canon.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I do not see how huge wafers have much effect; they only modestly increase the fraction of the wafer than can be covered by sensors, especially given the industry practice of packing some smaller sensors into the gaps around the big ones. As far as price comparisons, I look at Pentax not P1 or H, and there, apart from sensor size, the 645Z is equipped only about as well as the least expensive of 35mm format DSLRs (< $2000) so those are the models to compare with on costs and likely prices, not the top-of-the-line 35mm format DSLRs.
In that comparison, "entry level 44x33mm" format costs more than "entry level 35mm" by a factor of four or more, or a difference of $6000 or more. So talk of sub-$1000 prices on 44x33mm sensors sounds like wishful thinking to me. As to economies of scale, the system camera sales volume ratios from "bigger than 35m to "35mm" to "smaller than 35mm" is about 1:100:1000 and the vast entrenched lens systems in 35mm format and smaller, and the fact that these smaller formats are perceived as "good enough" by about 99.9% of photographers, make it very unlikely that any large format camera or sensor can get volume up enough to avoid a substantial price gap, in turn maintaining the difficulty of getting volume up ...
But perhaps I should leave people to their optimistic fantasies about a major shift towards bigger cameras; like most fantasies, they are probably harmless!
My feeling or guess -as I am an idiot- is that standard wafer sizes have roughly tracked constant-yield area. I'm probably wrong. Go ahead and provide the constant yield area curves or similar if you have them :P In the past I have found people exceptionally unwilling to provide yield data, but I probably didn't ask politely enough.
As for the rest, the electronics industry has always supplied me with fantasy hardware faster than I thought possible. The iPad is clearly as good as the Dynabook. Here we're talking about pricing chips which have already been designed. You think we haven't reached the point where MF cameras become accessible, I think we're getting there - this discussion will be laughable in 10 years.
Edmund
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A 21st century Texas Leica?
hope it will work with my Mamiya 7 lenses :D
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My feeling or guess -as I am an idiot- is that standard wafer sizes have roughly tracked constant-yield area. I'm probably wrong. Go ahead and provide the constant yield area curves or similar if you have them :P In the past I have found people exceptionally unwilling to provide yield data ...
So on that one, apparently neither of us has any data; so I will stick to the available data on prices, price ratios,and market share ratios between formats, which have not been kind to larger formats.
... the electronics industry has always supplied me with fantasy hardware faster than I thought possible. The iPad ...
Must it be said yet again: these wonders of "smaller, cheaper, faster, better" consumer electronic devices are primarily driven by increases in speed and reduction of power needs that in turn are largely driven by the downsizing of chips and of the features on them, not on anything that helps with the upsizing of chips. The drive towards 28nm, 22nm and even smaller process sizes is of little relevance to the cost of sensors for cameras in formats 35mm and up, where pixel pitches of 4880nm [D800] and up allow the use of older fab. processes with far larger feature sizes. (For example, Canon uses 350nm or 500nm process for its SLR sensors, AFAIK.)
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So on that one, apparently neither of us has any data; so I will stick to the available data on prices, price ratios,and market share ratios between formats, which have not been kind to larger formats.
I didn't say I had *no* data. I said I had no published data apart from the obvious wafer size evolution. I talk with various sources regularly, none want to be very precise or quoted but they do give tentative $numbers. I ask for sensor price quotes from semiconductor vendors and see how chip costs scale with size and time. Oh, and I know about elementary yield statistics (http://www-inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~ee290H/fa03/handouts/Yield_Papers/Unified%20Yield%20Model%20TSM%208%2096.pdf) as described at the start of this paper because every EE learns about those in school. Note that in the thanks section of this paper the author also indicates his sources do not wish to be named.
Why don't you ask around a bit yourself, and come back after that.
l'll stick to my opinion that cheap and cheerful low end MF is coming. Camera companies will be able to pay the sensor and lens BOM, but not invest in things such as good AF systems or the programming of complex feature sets. The fixed-lens wide SWC clone is just one design that seems to fit the bill perfectly,next up may be the digital back for tech camera users :)
Maybe one should ask the question differently. Does Sony want this to occur? They have the only MF chip on th market for now that would allow a fairly low BOM, with low dev costs, and so they will determine when the bubble bursts.
Edmund
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There is another runner about Hasselblad in financial trouble, that HB might be on sale again.
Given the close relationship of HB ans FJ, the combination of the two rumors adds more colors.
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l'll stick to my opinion that cheap and cheerful low end MF is coming.
probably and Edmund that's been your stance ever since you feel you got burned by Phase, but remember there is no free lunch.
A smaller almost medium format camera for less, sure, it'll happen now that Sony has made the generic sensor, but will it work professionally, tether, have lens sets that are affordable, large buffer, software suites, bright viewfinders that you can manually and autofocus . . . the list goes on.
Cheap is easy. Cheap and professional is hard.
AJA and Blackmagic have lowered the entry costs of digital cinema . . . especially AJA but when you add the numbers, take the chance that out of the box it's going to be right, then look around at what's available on the refurb, demo market you realize the entry costs are already pretty low.
Check out the prices of a refurb or dealer backed h4d40, or a Leica S2, IQ 40 mpx camera and at the end of the day, it's probably the same price as the Pentax with a lot more options in rental and the buy the lens used market.
IMO
BC
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Fuji will never use a sensor not made by them... never! They'll never look like a "Sony follower" as if they don't have the appropriate technology themselves.... Everybody (even Canon) may.... but Fuji? ...never! It's like buying a Kodak film in a Fuji case... same kind of rumour it is!
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Fuji will never use a sensor not made by them... never! They'll never look like a "Sony follower" as if they don't have the appropriate technology themselves.... Everybody (even Canon) may.... but Fuji? ...never! It's like buying a Kodak film in a Fuji case... same kind of rumour it is!
Except that... they already do today.
Their current sensors are using a Sony sensor with a Fuji topping (filtering,...) and processing.
Cheers,
Bernard
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probably and Edmund that's been your stance ever since you feel you got burned by Phase, but remember there is no free lunch.
A smaller almost medium format camera for less, sure, it'll happen now that Sony has made the generic sensor, but will it work professionally, tether, have lens sets that are affordable, large buffer, software suites, bright viewfinders that you can manually and autofocus . . . the list goes on.
Cheap is easy. Cheap and professional is hard.
AJA and Blackmagic have lowered the entry costs of digital cinema . . . especially AJA but when you add the numbers, take the chance that out of the box it's going to be right, then look around at what's available on the refurb, demo market you realize the entry costs are already pretty low.
Check out the prices of a refurb or dealer backed h4d40, or a Leica S2, IQ 40 mpx camera and at the end of the day, it's probably the same price as the Pentax with a lot more options in rental and the buy the lens used market.
IMO
BC
J,
I don't think Phase really priced more atrociously than Canon initially -remember the 1Ds - and I didn't get burned by Phase, I got burned by my own inexperience and an exceptionally bad dealer. My Canon experience was pretty good, thanks to CPS. Which is why I am the first to tell people to go with Doug and Steve who are known to be competent and honest.
For the rest you are clearly 100% right. A $1K CMOS chip does not -yet- a "pro" camera make. It won't contrast-detect focus, tether etc, until Sony codes most of that into the reference design they provide to OEMs. And yes, for today's buyer a used Hassy or Leica S2 or Phase back is a good deal.
However, I think the future looks a bit different with the Sony chip and a forthcoming Leica/CMOSIS chip: I believe the tech cam guys and historical Hassy users are going to get their cheap digital backs. I think Alpa and Arca users are going to be very happy. I think a historical Rollei solution and a Rolleiflex/Hy6/Sinar comeback are a definite possibility; above all I think we're going to go back to a point where a quality MF camera body or lens are high value and profitable items that can sell for considerably more than the back price.
In other words, I think the Sony chip is very good news for MF users and the MF camera industry, including the ecosystem of small specialist camera manufacturers and dealers who retail bodies and lenses.
Edmund
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J,
I don't think Phase really priced more atrociously than Canon initially -remember the 1Ds - and I didn't get burned by Phase, I got burned by my own inexperience and an exceptionally bad dealer. My Canon experience was pretty good, thanks to CPS. Which is why I am the first to tell people to go with Doug and Steve who are known to be competent and honest.
For the rest you are clearly 100% right. A $1K CMOS chip does not a "pro" camera make. It won't contrast-detect focus, tether etc, until Sony codes most of that into the reference design they provide to OEMs. And yes, for today's buyer a used Hassy or Leica S2 or Phase back is a good deal.
However, I think the future looks a bit different with the Sony chip and a forthcoming Leica/CMOSIS chip: I believe the tech cam guys and historical Hassy users are going to get their cheap digital backs. I think Alpa and Arca users are going to be very happy. I think a historical Rollei solution and a Rolleiflex/Hy6/Sinar comeback are a definite possibility; above all I think we're going to go back to a point where a quality MF camera body and lens are high value profitable items that sell for considerably more than the back price.
Edmund
I'm not knocking you man, I'm just saying there is no free lunch. For a non pro without having to tether, a camera like the fuji would be cool, especially if it comes it at 5 grand and the Pentax is hard to pass up, but when you add Pentax newer lens prices, a back body, it's serious cash.
for video I'd love a Sony A7, that shot like my reds, small like the sony and had the gh3/4 autofocus I'd be over the moon, but nobody is making it especially at sony $2,500 prices.
Even those little m43 cameras I have are not cheap when you buy fast lenses to compensate for the small sensor. a$1,500 for the leica lens is Canon territory and though it's not cinema lens prices, for m43 stills it's high.
No free lunch and btw: I've made a lot of mistakes on equipment, usually trying to save money rather than bite the bullet.
BC
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I'm not knocking you man, I'm just saying there is no free lunch. For a non pro without having to tether, a camera like the fuji would be cool, especially if it comes it at 5 grand and the Pentax is hard to pass up, but when you add Pentax newer lens prices, a back body, it's serious cash.
for video I'd love a Sony A7, that shot like my reds, small like the sony and had the gh3/4 autofocus I'd be over the moon, but nobody is making it especially at sony $2,500 prices.
Even those little m43 cameras I have are not cheap when you buy fast lenses to compensate for the small sensor. a$1,500 for the leica lens is Canon territory and though it's not cinema lens prices, for m43 stills it's high.
No free lunch and btw: I've made a lot of mistakes on equipment, usually trying to save money rather than bite the bullet.
BC
J,
The thing I cannot really figure out is why you keep some *expensive* stills-only equipment in the mix, when you do so much video work and the small cams can shoot 90% as useful as MF. - a collective endeavour.
Edmund
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J,
The thing I cannot really figure out is why you keep some *expensive* stills-only equipment in the mix, when you do so much video work and the small cams can shoot 90% as useful as MF.
Edmund
cause I like em.
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cause I like em.
+1 !
Edmund
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J,
I don't think Phase really priced more atrociously than Canon initially -remember the 1Ds - and I didn't get burned by Phase, I got burned by my own inexperience and an exceptionally bad dealer. My Canon experience was pretty good, thanks to CPS. Which is why I am the first to tell people to go with Doug and Steve who are known to be competent and honest.
For the rest you are clearly 100% right. A $1K CMOS chip does not a "pro" camera make. It won't contrast-detect focus, tether etc, until Sony codes most of that into the reference design they provide to OEMs. And yes, for today's buyer a used Hassy or Leica S2 or Phase back is a good deal.
However, I think the future looks a bit different with the Sony chip and a forthcoming Leica/CMOSIS chip: I believe the tech cam guys and historical Hassy users are going to get their cheap digital backs. I think Alpa and Arca users are going to be very happy. I think a historical Rollei solution and a Rolleiflex/Hy6/Sinar comeback are a definite possibility; above all I think we're going to go back to a point where a quality MF camera body and lens are high value profitable items that sell for considerably more than the back price.
Edmund
Exactly, things are going to get better in the MF Digital world, not worse. They are pretty good right now so more choices, better technology and lower prices are always welcome.
The best tech camera platforms and lenses are not going to get cheap though. I think they are pretty fairly priced nowadays considering that they are pretty low volume products.
Regarding the new Sony sensor, I for one love the large size sensor in my IQ160. I hope the 44mmx33mm sensor size does not become the only option in MFD the future. Love to see a CMOS chip in the same size as the 60/80mp Dalsa sensors.
I remember when the 1DS came out at $8,000 (Photokina 2002). Nikonians had to endure 6 years (until 2008, and several full frame DSLRs from Canon) until Nikon came out with a full frame DSLR (D3). The 1DS was and still is a great camera. $8k USD in 2002 was about the equivalent of $10,500 in today's $.
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If the Fuji came in at a great price, you could get one, and a backup body.
I wonder if there'll be the ability to change lenses - that's for me the key point.
Otherwise it would be like those medium format viewfinder cameras of the 80's.
Why shouldn't the Fuji be able to tether?
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If the Fuji came in at a great price, you could get one, and a backup body.
I wonder if there'll be the ability to change lenses - that's for me the key point.
Otherwise it would be like those medium format viewfinder cameras of the 80's.
Why shouldn't the Fuji be able to tether?
My expectation is that Sony will eventually evolve an SDK for a reference implementation which it provides to large volume chip buyers - any feature that is in the reference implementation could be in all the cameras. If tethering or focus peaking is in the reference implementation, it will be in all the (cheap) cameras. Phase and Hassy are a different matter because they have existing product ranges. It would be interesting to know whether Pentax are using something self-developed, or skinning a Sony design.
Think of my argument as the one about mobile phones: You have Apple and even now Blackberry and everybody else is basically skinning Android which is why they can churn out very good phones quickly and with low dev costs. Phase and Hassy are now basically the Apple and Blackberry of MF, but the Android clones are going to be set loose by Sony.
Edmund
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Think of my argument as the one about mobile phones: You have Apple and even now Blackberry and everybody else is basically skinning Android which is why they can churn out very good phones quickly and with low dev costs. Phase and Hassy are now basically the Apple and Blackberry of MF, but the Android clones are going to be set loose by Sony.
Interesting way of looking at things and you might be entirely right.
Personally I see Leica as the Apple of MF though.
IMO Leica stands a better change of maintaining their business model than Phase or Hasselblad, especially if the Leica T turns out to be a success which I suspect it will be.
Joris.
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Leica are definitely more akin to Vertu with their niche luxury products.
apple are a mass market brand not ‘luxury'
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Hi,
I would agree tech cams are fair priced, but I would suggest simpler tech cams are possible using sensors with live view. It seems that todays Sony sensors are not a good match for non retrofocus wide angles, that may need some consideration too.
Best regards
Erik
Exactly, things are going to get better in the MF Digital world, not worse. They are pretty good right now so more choices, better technology and lower prices are always welcome.
The best tech camera platforms and lenses are not going to get cheap though. I think they are pretty fairly priced nowadays considering that they are pretty low volume products.
Regarding the new Sony sensor, I for one love the large size sensor in my IQ160. I hope the 44mmx33mm sensor size does not become the only option in MFD the future. Love to see a CMOS chip in the same size as the 60/80mp Dalsa sensors.
I remember when the 1DS came out at $8,000 (Photokina 2002). Nikonians had to endure 6 years (until 2008, and several full frame DSLRs from Canon) until Nikon came out with a full frame DSLR (D3). The 1DS was and still is a great camera. $8k USD in 2002 was about the equivalent of $10,500 in today's $.
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The reference design model gives you a bunch of similar acting clones, but the software can be solid albeit bland. And if the hardware is very varied you can have an interesting palette - think of a folder camera, a rangefinder version, a superwide. MF is a good place for strong hardware variation because users are ready to pay premium for a niche product that fits their fancy - as Phase and Hassy have proved.
Edmund
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I just hope, if this rumour is true that Fuji will do it properly (think alongside Mamiya 6/7):
- interchangeable lenses
- leaf shutters in the lenses to allow high flash sync speeds
- would like to see X-Pro1 form factor but since the body will be larger, no need for tiny finicky buttons
- weather sealed from start - both body and lenses
- introduce with holy trinity of lenses - wide, normal, portrait
- ideally mechanically coupled lenses - their X series are fully electronic for both aperture settings and focus
- and no x-trans ;)
Portability and IQ is the only reason I still use Mamiya 6
I'd love system like this to compliment my good old Brutus (Hassy with Leaf back - always tripod use)
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I think that Fuji would release an integrated lens camera, not a system.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I would also be surprised if it was an ILC….
The X100 paved the way for the X-Pro1 and the X-T1 and that worked pretty nicely.
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When I saw the rumor I was thinking fixed lens, folding rangefinder style camera for under $10k. I mean if you want to get into interchangeable lenses then well there are a lot of competitors and it would nix the magic. There is beauty in simplicity. Well ok maybe an EVF instead of a rangefinder, but keep it simple!
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When I saw the rumor I was thinking fixed lens, folding rangefinder style camera for under $10k. I mean if you want to get into interchangeable lenses then well there are a lot of competitors and it would nix the magic. There is beauty in simplicity. Well ok maybe an EVF instead of a rangefinder, but keep it simple!
It would need to be way under $10K, $5K max, otherwise you get into Pentax territory.
I love the Fuji FP-1 I have and I am still often tempted by the GF670. A camera like that would be very cool!
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I'm interested to see what fixed lens it would be. 55mm maybe?
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This would be a very interesting landscape camera, depending on the lens(es). I've always wondered if someone could do an EVF camera with sensor tilt - darn near impossible in a reflex camera, because you can't preview the effect, but sensors are already on motorized mounts (for dust removal and image stabilization) - how hard would it be to allow the sensor to be tilted? On a 44x33 mm sensor, we aren't talking about much movement to meaningfully alter the plane of focus - even on 4x5, it is generally less than a centimeter of difference between the edges of the film, so on the smaller sensor, we are talking about an adjustment range of several millimeters.
-Dan
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I'm interested to see what fixed lens it would be. 55mm maybe?
Anything in the 45–55mm range would suit me fine.
If Fuji were to implement an electronic split-image manual focuser as in the latest X cameras, I'd be fine with an EVF...and with an AF lens too (which I'd use mainly in manual mode). Otherwise I'd prefer a proper rangefinder mechanism.
I like the idea of sensor tilt/shift too. You could use this for horizon leveling and multi-shot true RGB capture as well as image plane tilting.
-Dave-
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One of the comments. Again a rumor, but what the heck, who knows?
"About 6 months ago someone I know who works for a camera magazine here in Japan told me that Fuji was working on a square sensor MF camera for the end of 2014. He also stated that the square would be smaller than 6x6. That's all I know but it's possible that it was true and they've moved it up to a summer release."
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Anything in the 45–55mm range would suit me fine.
If Fuji were to implement an electronic split-image manual focuser as in the latest X cameras, I'd be fine with an EVF...and with an AF lens too (which I'd use mainly in manual mode). Otherwise I'd prefer a proper rangefinder mechanism.
I like the idea of sensor tilt/shift too. You could use this for horizon leveling and multi-shot true RGB capture as well as image plane tilting.
-Dave-
cheap multishot rgb capture is something a lot of people have being waiting for.
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Leica are definitely more akin to Vertu with their niche luxury products.
apple are a mass market brand not ‘luxury'
Well I nearly got it right ::)
http://petapixel.com/2014/06/03/vertus-11300-signature-touch-smartphone-dons-hasselblad-certified-camera/#more-137255 (http://petapixel.com/2014/06/03/vertus-11300-signature-touch-smartphone-dons-hasselblad-certified-camera/#more-137255)
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Hastle-bloodyblad-dumbphone?
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cheap multishot rgb capture is something a lot of people have being waiting for.
It is here: http://www.sigma-global.com/en/cameras/dp-series/#/dp2
Cheers,
Bernard
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It is here: http://www.sigma-global.com/en/cameras/dp-series/#/dp2
Cheers,
Bernard
It's here! he exclaimed, and stepped straight into the elevator shaft.
I guess the rest of us will wait a bit.
Edmund
PS. cannot find it on Yodobashi ....
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It's here! he exclaimed, and stepped straight into the elevator shaft.
I guess the rest of us will wait a bit.
Edmund
PS. cannot find it on Yodobashi ....
Some day, some day soon!
Cheers,
Bernard
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Some day, some day soon!
Cheers,
Bernard
To paraphrase Einstein, soon is a relative concept (as in fact is the ordering of events occurring in separate locations)
I wonder whether I am the only person in existence to find special relativity non obvious and general incomprehensible?
Like SNCF always says - one delay can hide another :)
http://sigma-rumors.com/2014/06/sigma-dp2-quattro-delayed/
Edmund
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http://sigma-rumors.com/2014/06/sigma-dp2-quattro-delayed/
Of course, but...
http://sigma-rumors.com/2014/05/sharpness-sigma-dp2-quattro-pentax-645z/
Cheers,
Bernard
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I was on the cusp of purchasing a Phase one IQ260 and a Contax 645, but dang it if this rumor doesn't make me want to wait it out a while and see if this camera doesn't come out this summer!
However, if it has a fixed lens, I'm sure it will be a great camera but sorrythanksnotforme. I cant imagine Fuji offering APS-C models with interchangable lenses, but a MF digital camera fixed? Naw, nawwww. Don't do that Fuji, please!
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I'd suggest that if Fuji is actually interested in medium format (that is, under its own name) it's likely to repeat its X-series strategy: first release a fixed-lens camera, then later come out with an interchangeable lens system if sales & demand are there.
-Dave-
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I actually quite like the idea of a fixed lens MF camera, but then I've been a Rolleiflex enthusiast for at least 20 years.
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The GF670 has now been officially discontinued by Fuji:
http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/08/25/fujifilm-gf670-folding-rangefinder-now-discontinued/#.U_z-EUuBVFx
Hopefully a new (fixed-lens) digital MF camera soon…?
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Well, this could be a welcome addition to MF availability. As long as they hit the price point ;D
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The rumor seems to have resurfaced:
http://www.fujirumors.com/lets-drop-the-rumor-bomb-fujifilm-is-forging-a-medium-format-camera-source-right-in-past/
Let's wait and see...
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Maybe the elevator is coming :)
Edmund
It's here! he exclaimed, and stepped straight into the elevator shaft.
I guess the rest of us will wait a bit.
Edmund
PS. cannot find it on Yodobashi ....
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On the page is a poll ;D
A more biased sample, following a link to Fuji and or Medium Format, us hard to find but.........
Do you want Fuji to offer a Medium Format digital Camera?
(Note not "would you buy it if they did" )
Yes (72%, 1,652 Votes)
No (28%, 637 Votes)
(Why would you vote No BTW even if you personally didn't want one? Or is this another parallel universe/time thing?)
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(Why would you vote No BTW even if you personally didn't want one?)
Perhaps people feel that Fuji's limited R&D time and resources are better spent on other pursuits?
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Perhaps people feel that Fuji's limited R&D time and resources are better spent on other pursuits?
Fuji is basically responsible for designing and making the Hasselblad H system since day 1, which has been a huge success.
Fuji has designed and made the X system from the ground up in no time and the lenses are superb.
Fuji has shown amazing agility in designing and making camera systems so if they venture into a new Medium Format Digital system I would expect them to make it rather quickly and be of superior quality.
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I would like the thank JV for reusing last year's Fujifilm medium format speculation thread, to keep all the discussions in one place, and I look forward to another revival next year, when some gossip website decides to warm up its hit count again.
P. S. From what I have read, from named sources, it is an exaggeration to say that Fujifilm is "basically responsible for designing and making the Hasselblad H system". Fujifilm has a big role in the lenses (but still with input from Hasselblad, as with lenses for earlier Hasselblad cameras) but AFAIK, Hasselblad was and is the main designer of the bodies.
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I would like the thank JV for reusing last year's Fujifilm medium format speculation thread, to keep all the discussions in one place, and I look forward to another revival next year, when some gossip website decides to warm up its hit count again.
P. S. From what I have read, from named sources, it is an exaggeration to say that Fujifilm is "basically responsible for designing and making the Hasselblad H system". Fujifilm has a big role in the lenses (but still with input from Hasselblad, as with lenses for earlier Hasselblad cameras) but AFAIK, Hasselblad was and is the main designer of the bodies.
Yes. My mistake.
Fuji is largely responsible for the lenses (Fujinon?) and the prism viewfinder.
Fuji did design and manufacture the Hasselblad XPan in its entirety.
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Fuji did design and manufacture the Hasselblad XPan in its entirety.
Yes, the XPan does seem to have been Hasselblad's first and most honorable effort in "badge-engineering" another company's product.
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Yes, the XPan does seem to have been Hasselblad's first and most honorable effort in "badge-engineering" another company's product.
I think only Canon makes everything themselves (Camera Body, Sensor and Lenses). All others work with other manufacturers. In medium format PhaseOne works with Mamiya (Body and Some lenses) and Schneider (lenses but most are tweaked Mamiya Designs and the make the leaf shutters and make the necessary modifications in the design), Phase Only makes the backs (with sensors from Dalsa and Sony).
I am not sure if the Fuji X system is entirely Fuji's. The bodies and lenses im sure but don't know if the xtrans Sensor is just a modified sensor from another manufacturer.
Leica works with CMOSIS for their sensors and with Panasonic for a bunch of the lower end stuff. Besides the sensor the Leica S system is basically all Leica.
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Anything is possible I guess. But I don't think a medium format x-trans is coming. During Photokina last year there was a huge buzz that Fuji was coming out with a full 35mm sized x-trans. Fuji shot this down in an interview that was out on the web for a while staring they felt that x-trans was at its limit in the current APS-C size and there would not be anything larger.
Not to say they can't do it but to skip the much larger 35mm market for MF would seem a bit strange to me.
Paul
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Anything is possible I guess. But I don't think a medium format x-trans is coming. During Photokina last year there was a huge buzz that Fuji was coming out with a full 35mm sized x-trans. Fuji shot this down in an interview that was out on the web for a while staring they felt that x-trans was at its limit in the current APS-C size and there would not be anything larger.
Not to say they can't do it but to skip the much larger 35mm market for MF would seem a bit strange to me.
Paul
MF is nice, but all I want is an affordable Leica knockoff from Fuji in the $2500 range.
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Hi,
Regarding Fujinon and Hasselblad, I would say that there is a long standing cooperation. I wouldn't say that a Hasselblad is a rebadged Fujica. But, Fujinon is making a lot of Hasselblad's hardware.
With Leica, it is interesting. The sensor was developed by CMOSIS for Leica. CMOSIS is just a design house, the sensor is "fabbed" at ST Electronics a major chip maker based in Belgium, I believe. I may be wrong on some issues here.
In the end, what counts is how the tools work and far less who was making them.
Best regards
Erik
I think only Canon makes everything themselves (Camera Body, Sensor and Lenses). All others work with other manufacturers. In medium format PhaseOne works with Mamiya (Body and Some lenses) and Schneider (lenses but most are tweaked Mamiya Designs and the make the leaf shutters and make the necessary modifications in the design), Phase Only makes the backs (with sensors from Dalsa and Sony).
I am not sure if the Fuji X system is entirely Fuji's. The bodies and lenses im sure but don't know if the xtrans Sensor is just a modified sensor from another manufacturer.
Leica works with CMOSIS for their sensors and with Panasonic for a bunch of the lower end stuff. Besides the sensor the Leica S system is basically all Leica.
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Canon uses Sony sensors 1" and smaller (for example the G7X, which has better dynamic range than Canon's own APS-sensored cameras).
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At this point I doubt Fuji is interested in medium format (beyond their current Hasselblad alliance), but if they were to create a larger format product I think it'd be more likely to use a 44x33mm sensor than 36x24mm. The number of "full frame" users is certainly greater than that of MF cameras, but IMO Canikon & Sony have the 35mm market sewn up pretty tight. Much as I'd like to see Pentax succeed with its upcoming 35mm offering, I think the chance of that happening is low. Anyway, when it comes to traditional (that is, non-smart-device) photo gear we're likely at the start of a period of serious contraction. I can't see Fuji, for whom cameras are largely an indulgence, kicking off any major new product line in this environment. Same with Olympus.
-Dave-
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But, Fujinon is making a lot of Hasselblad's hardware.
Basically Fujinon do the glass. I wouldn't call that "a lot of Hasselblad's hardware". Hasselblad make the shutters, bodies and backs. Fuji make the lenses which are Hasselblad designs.
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I think only Canon makes everything themselves (Camera Body, Sensor and Lenses).
Panasonic does the same
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Panasonic does the same
Yes. That may be why they've been going steadily upmarket.
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Yes. That may be why they've been going steadily upmarket.
That's because there is no bottom market any more, that slot is occupied with phones. The, well one of them, problem with going upmarket is R&D is amortised over fewer units and parts costs increases as volume drops, less units to buy unit cost increases, so final product cost is higher, relatively. Two words fit there, Phase & Hasselblad. Also note Fuji and Panasonic wouldn't notice if they stopped selling cameras at all, Nikon would be bust and Canon would be right behind them so the big players are strangely in a worse position despite having the largest current market shares. Sony are probably the most agile but then they don't have a legacy lens set to worry about keeping happy just several incomplete new lens lines that they would probably like to rationalise as they have skipped around.
So, Fuji MF, perhaps, depends, if they have a "champion" in the team driving it, the chip is there, Sony, the history is there, their own, the market though is small and probably shrinking, master marketer Doug excepted of course, but then do they need to look too hard at the bottom line and balance that with the prestige of being in MF land?
Odds are they have a prototype, or six, who wouldn't want to play with that chip in R&D, hence the rumours as there are probably bodies about, but bring it to market?
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Two words fit there, Phase & Hasselblad. Also note Fuji and Panasonic wouldn't notice if they stopped selling cameras at all, Nikon would be bust and Canon would be right behind them so the big players are strangely in a worse position despite having the largest current market shares [...] the market though is small and probably shrinking, master marketer Doug excepted of course, but then do they need to look too hard at the bottom line and balance that with the prestige of being in MF land?
Odds are they have a prototype, or six, who wouldn't want to play with that chip in R&D, hence the rumours as there are probably bodies about, but bring it to market?
Fuji seem to be dominating the APS-C market with both bodies and a lens lineup to match. In all likelihood we'll have a 24MP body soon. They've clearly stated they won't be competing in the 35mm FF sector and given Sony's success I would say that's a correct policy decision.
But there is a question mark as to whether they will continue with the x-trans sensor or revert to a Bayer one. I'm sure they've also seen the 'light' when it comes to the MF market, and taking a leaf out of Sony's success, they may well produce an MF body, but one that will be (adapter) compatible with all the MF glass already out there. However I'd be the first to admit that I can't see why Sony wouldn't or couldn't do the same.
The decision is probably further complicated by the alleged sightings of Doug P surreptitiously using a Fuji rather than the full blown Phase kit he always keeps so ostentatiously on show. But as we've said all along - if you can't tell the difference, why not ? [/just kiddin' you, Doug] :)
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MF is nice, but all I want is an affordable Leica knockoff from Fuji in the $2500 range.
+1
and double that by copying Leica's S lens compatibility in a medium format body.
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They might try their hand with a compact fixed lens MF, the only one that would be a niche product.
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I do own and love an xpro-1. At that form factor and price point it can't be beat (if, like me, you can't live without an optical viewfinder). If I could have something 20-30% bigger in form factor but with a good 33x44mm sensor I'd get it in a heart beat. A smaller mamiya 7-digital is on just about every photographers wish list.
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+1.
This is the only (kind of) camera I presently miss having.
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I do own and love an xpro-1. At that form factor and price point it can't be beat (if, like me, you can't live without an optical viewfinder). If I could have something 20-30% bigger in form factor but with a good 33x44mm sensor I'd get it in a heart beat. A smaller mamiya 7-digital is on just about every photographers wish list.
Doug, seems you are "preaching to the choir".
Are we getting a new Mamiya (7) body?
:P
Edmund
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I'll add my two pennies worth... I'd buy a medium format, light weight, mirrorless Mamiya 7 digital right now.
The Mamiya is the one film camera I wish I'd kept. Not so much that I'm tempted to buy second hand, mind... (the only film camera I keep getting tempted by on eBay is an XPan, and I can't face going back to the days of film scanning).
So long as the price of a digi-Mamiya 7 was in the ballpark of top-end 35mm kit rather than Leica/Phase/Blad money, I'd order one immediately.
Cheers, Hywel
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Fuji seem to be dominating the APS-C market with both bodies and a lens lineup to match.
Fuji has a nice APS system, but Sony seems to be outselling them 5 to 1 in the APS space.
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My 2 cent considerations:
IMO the possible release of a MF mirrorless camera could be a smart move by Fuji. Instead of competing directly with the Sony A7 mirrorless system in 36x24mm size size, they would accompany their more compact APS-C size X mirrorless system by a larger one covering user applications that require the highest image quality. Such mirrorless cameras were rather popular and successful in 645, 67 and 69 size during film times (with and without interchangeable lenses by Fuji, Mamiya and others) and they already showed the weight and size advantage of mirrorless systems compared to mirror-reflex systems. The today's technology advantage is, that such a camera must not be nessesarily a rangefinder but due to the digital sensor one can frame and focus perfectly using the latest excellent generation of electronical viewfinders.
Fuji already works with Sony sensors in their X series cameras so it's rather probable that they would choose the 44x33mm 50 MP Sony sensor for their cam which is great because this sensor provides the currently best combination of "resolution times dynamic range" plus required life view capability (via EVF or back screen). My hope is they would make the cam with interchangeable lenses (not fixed like X100) and with EVF (not rangefinder - EVF combi like X-Pro). Basically a scaled-up X-T1 with all these nice manual dials, so you seldomly have to scroll through the menus. Regarding the lenses my recommendation would be my preferred 4-lens-set-up (others might disagree :-) covering the 21-35-50-85 mm range in 135 format. The speed should be a good compromise between speed and weight/compactness, so my favorites would be (135 equivalents in brackets):
25f4.8 (= 21f4)
43f3.4 (= 35f2.8)
65f2.4 or 2 (= 55f2 or 1.7)
105f2.8 or 2.4 (= 85f2.4 or 2)
That would make a still compact and not too heavy system (compared to a mirror-reflex sytem like Leica S, Pentax 645, Contax 645, Phase, Hasselbald H), maybe not larger or heavier than a 5D, with a really top notch image quality. And the price for the body would be a fraction of a Leica S or a Phase + IQ250/Credo50.
The really cool thing is that such a camera - additionally - would offer a lot of the capabilities of a FPS + IQ250/Credo50 system (again for a fraction of the price): The short flange distance of presumingly about 30mm would allow many kinds of mechanical or electromechanical adapters and shift adapters to mount MF lenses of any kind for architecture photography. And even a Canon EF to Fuji adapter can be considered because between the two mounts is enough space (about 15mm) and therefore the Canon 11-24, TSE 17, TSE 24, 85f1.2 a.s.o. could be mounted or the Zeiss ZE 135f2 Apo, Leica R 180f3.4 Apo, Leica R 180f2.8 Apo ... which all have sufficient image circle for the 44x33mm sensor. Such an adapter (by Metabones or others) could provide auto aperture and even autofocus with Canon AF lenses.
So: Fuji please go ahead and just do it :-)
Christoph
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I used to love the folding Fuji GS645--a small and light package with a great lens. I used it mostly for personal projects, so bcooter's issues with the Mamiya 7 didn't enter into the equation for me.
Like Doug, if Fuji could scale up the X-Pro1, which I shoot with now, to a GS645-like package with the 33x44 Sony sensor I would be thrilled. I even like the idea of a fixed lens or a limited set of lenses like the Bronica RF645. Such a camera would be a far better complement to my Fuji's APS cameras than the FF DSLR that complements them now.
It doesn't need to do everything. That was one thing that was great about the Fuji 645 variants: they didn't do everything and there wasn't a whole bag of stuff to take with you. You grabbed the camera and a few rolls of film and were out the door. Given the likely cost of such a camera I'd need to find ways to utilize the camera for commercial projects, but I wouldn't want commercial shooters' needs to be central in the design.
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[the Mamiya 7] wouldn't shoot polaroids and it took two bodies minimum to have an assistant constantly changing film.
BC: these are two profoundly irrelevant considerations with a digital camera! But I can see that the "bigger than 35mm format non-SLR" was and is far more for walk-around usage than your "gear and crew intensive" professional working mode.
Christoph: you have a point that I had not thought much of before:
Such mirrorless cameras were rather popular and successful in 645, 67 and 69 size during film times . . . and they already showed the weight and size advantage of mirrorless systems compared to mirror-reflex systems.
The size and weight advantage of a mirrorless system (be it a rangefinder or an EVF camera) is greatest (1) with a larger format and (2) with lenses from wide-angle to a bit longer than normal; not long telephotos. So maybe there is a market for a mirrorless digital camera with something like the Sony 44x33mm CMOS sensor -- or the somewhat larger CMOS sensor that I expect Sony to launch next, as it continues to displace CCDs from medium format systems.
Interchangeable lenses would be essential: tying a nice, big, expensive sensor like that to a single lens would make the niche too small, and the kit too big as soon as one wants to carry more than a single focal length.
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My 2 cent considerations:
IMO the possible release of a MF mirrorless camera could be a smart move by Fuji. Instead of competing directly with the Sony A7 mirrorless system in 36x24mm size size, they would accompany their more compact APS-C size X mirrorless system by a larger one covering user applications that require the highest image quality. Such mirrorless cameras were rather popular and successful in 645, 67 and 69 size during film times (with and without interchangeable lenses by Fuji, Mamiya and others) and they already showed the weight and size advantage of mirrorless systems compared to mirror-reflex systems. The today's technology advantage is, that such a camera must not be nessesarily a rangefinder but due to the digital sensor one can frame and focus perfectly using the latest excellent generation of electronical viewfinders.
Fuji already works with Sony sensors in their X series cameras so it's rather probable that they would choose the 44x33mm 50 MP Sony sensor for their cam which is great because this sensor provides the currently best combination of "resolution times dynamic range" plus required life view capability (via EVF or back screen).
but you know, Sony Imaging also works with Sony sensors (from Sony Semi), so they might find themselves competing even before they blink
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but you know, Sony Imaging also works with Sony sensors (from Sony Semi), so they might find themselves competing even before they blink
I can so totally see an RX0 with a 35mm equivalent lens using that sensor!
The camera would probably still be smaller than most DSLRs.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Those who like to travel light like the Mamiya 7, and even more the Fuji and Plaubel folders ...
Edmund
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I think a digital mamiya 7 type of camera will not be that small..
Lenses have to be longer just to make sure that the angle of the light hitting the sensor is not to high to handle.
For that reason alone i think the beautiful mamiya 7 lenses will never be used digitally... a pity.
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... very few are ;D
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I think a digital mamiya 7 type of camera will not be that small..
Lenses have to be longer just to make sure that the angle of the light hitting the sensor is not to high to handle.
For that reason alone i think the beautiful mamiya 7 lenses will never be used digitally... a pity.
I agree that it is very unlikely that there will be a DMF camera in anything in close to the 70x56mm format of the Mamiya 7, and so lenses for that system will at most be usable with an adaptor and a substantial FOV crop, with a sensor no bigger than the the current 54x40mm of DMF, and maybe smaller, like 44x33mm. But the rumor is just "medium format" in its loose modern sense of "anything bigger than 36x24mm".
So about size:
1) The reduction is body size and weight could itself be substantial: the mirror box and prism needed for the 56x42mm of 645 film format is quite massive (compare a 645 SLR to the Fujifilm 645 rangefinder, for example) and also, the 645-derived systems from Hasselblad, Phase One/Mamiya and Pentax are all constrained to the body depth needed by that film format even when using smaller sensors like 44x33mm.
2) The angle of incidence issue is only a factor with wide-angle lenses (especially with newer micro-lens designs that are more tolerant of off-perpendicular incident light), and even there, mirrorless wides can be less bulky that SLR wides due to the design flexibility of allowing rear elements to be much closer to the sensor. Although the traditional symmetric designs of film rangefinders might not be usable, modern lens designs can have a sensor-friendly high exit pupil while having the rear elements close to the focal plane.
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... very few are ;D
AHA !
So tell me (us)- how well does it work?
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IMO this makes a nice template for a fantasy Fuji:
(http://www.kenrockwell.com/mamiya/images/6/DSC_2587-1200.jpg)
Swap in an EVF for the rangefinder, et voilà!
-Dave-
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IMO this makes a nice template for a fantasy Fuji:
Swap in an EVF for the rangefinder, et voilà!
Except that it could be considerably less high, since the frame height would be no more than about 40mm (using the 53.7x40.3mm maximum sensor size offered for "645" cameras) instead of the 56mm frame height of that "6x6" film format camera. Maybe call it a "digital 5x4" to be honest, while confusing the LF old-timers.
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that's the camera that goes with me on the trips, tried once Italy with Hassy and Leaf back on it but it was painful, luckily I had also this camera with me
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Except that it could be considerably less high, since the frame height would be no more than about 40mm (using the 53.7x40.3mm maximum sensor size offered for "645" cameras) instead of the 56mm frame height of that "6x6" film format camera. Maybe call it a "digital 5x4" to be honest, while confusing the LF old-timers.
Oh, sure. Scale the whole thing down a bit to suit the format size. But I do like the proportions of the Mamiya 6.
Hey, Canon had their "New" F-1 camera. Call this fantasy Fuji's format the "New 4x5." :)
-Dave-
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Through my career, I've heard photographer's go on about the Mamiya 7 and I finally tried it, never really understood it.
Same for me, I owned a Mamiya 7 and really didn’t get on with it once the novelty of having 6x7 in such a small package wore off. The dof with 6x7 usually meant even with rangefinder benefits to handheld shutter speeds I had to carry a tripod much of the time. The frame lines were very inaccurate and I often ended up cropping much of the 6x7 frame away. Even worse was that with longer lenses the framed portion in the viewfinder was tiny. If you shoot shallow dof with wide angles all the time it might be a great camera. Luckily I bought mine with an 80mm for £530 and sold it for £700.
For a digital version, many of these things could be solved with EVFs.
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The Fuji rumor that resurfaces every year:
http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/fuji-manager-takeshi-ueno-says-we-are-testing-medium-format-cameras/
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It is getting more concrete now:
http://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-will-launch-a-medium-format-camera-top-trusted-japanese-source-new-source-says-it-will-come-at-photokina/
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I'm not sure if it's been mentioned here before, but I'm curious if a mirrorless medium format camera would allow for more than 1 to 3 focus points grouped very close to the center of the frame.
If I remember correctly from when I talked with Lau, from Phase One, he explained that the limiting factor in traditional MF bodies is the space required by the autofocus sensor to "see" from different parts of the image area, and for 35mm AF points the camera would need to be much much larger.
But, if the actual imaging sensor is handling focus this limitation would be lifted... maybe?
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If I were Fuji’s R&D manager then I would ‘just’ scale up their X-Pro-2 design to accommodate a large MF sensor. In order to keep costs down and have a short time-to-market period they should keep all bells and whistles the same. I see this as a big but still incremental step in the design philosophy.
If they then produce a series of top notch lenses, similar class like the Mamiya 7 ones, then I’m sure it will be a big hit.
What do you think?
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As it's been made very clear that the Fuji X-trans is a Sony Sensor with a different filter array, Fuji has access to both the 50MP and maybe the 100MP (doubtful) chips from Sony.
They have mastered IMO the mirror less design, with both the rangerfinder and SLR designs and have excellent optics for these cameras. So, since this rumor has floated now for 2 years or so, Fuji may be been working on lenses, or they plan to modify or use GX680 glass, or optics that they make for Hasselblad (correct me if I have this wrong but I have been under the impression that Fujiion makes some of the Hasselblad glass?).
Either way, they have demonstrated both excellent customer/and firmware upgrades (amazing capabilities have been added to the X-T1 since anno), so I do look forward to this.
I am more concerned about raw support. C1 currently does an OK job on the X-trans files, but Phase has made it clear they will only support Phase Medium format, so that leaves Iridient, Camera raw/LR (less than stellar on current x-trans) and silkypix (terrible workflow) as the main contenders. LR has made statements about better raw support in the future but since June 2015 nothing new has been added.
Photokina seems to be the time of announce, so that give them a lot of time, and they still need to bring the 24Mp chip to the X-T1 (please).
Paul C
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Hello,
in the interview the fuji manager said, they make hasselblad lenses. They make a lot of glass for cinema and TV too. And the prices are very high in this segment. They have a lot of technical know how. I hope they will not start with a fixed lens like the X100 in the 35mm class and after the test they start a changeable lens system.
But it sounds very interessting to me. Hope they make the right move.
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For some reason I too hope(d) that they would make a MF X100 style camera with fixed lens - but why? Much of the joy of the X100 is its portability which will be lost once MF comes into it. If nothing else the lens will be physically bigger.
The X100 delivers pretty good quality on the whole, would I need the extra from MF. No. Would I like it, well probably I would. And I think I could persuade myself that the various good bits were a real improvement.
But my pocket will not be deep enough financially nor physically to accept an MF X100 as I can my current real X100. Sigh.
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Based on the latest rumor over on Fujirumors, it might not be as close as photokina.
They now have a pollup, which has received quite a bit of attention. The vast majority of voters want a MF Fuji for 3K or under. (good luck), and when you consider that the X-Pro 2 is listing at around 1.8K, I personally can't see that happening.
But I guess anything is possible.
Paul C
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The vast majority of voters want a MF Fuji for 3K or under. (good luck), and when you consider that the X-Pro 2 is listing at around 1.8K, I personally can't see that happening.
Funny, that's 60% of the price of a Phase One 80mm f2.8. ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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Based on the latest rumor over on Fujirumors, it might not be as close as photokina.
They now have a pollup, which has received quite a bit of attention. The vast majority of voters want a MF Fuji for 3K or under. (good luck), and when you consider that the X-Pro 2 is listing at around 1.8K, I personally can't see that happening.
But I guess anything is possible.
Paul C
The only way I would see it is if they got a good deal on leftover chips from the Pentax 645D, expected some sort of miracle in sales, or took a loss/no profit on the bodies to sell the glass at a bit more mark-up. My guess, if they do it, expect a price just a bit higher than the 645Z.
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Only time will tell, however, they might do well with a MF kit, as they have a lot of glass already, unlike 35mm which would be all new (full frame 35mm).
I would much rather Fuji invest in a better raw converter to take full advantage of their files, I realize that Iridient and other software can do a lot, but LR/Adobe is the main stream path and right now the conversions are lacking IMO, quite a lot. I am still wondering just what the raws from the new 24MP chip will look like.
Paul C
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You can buy a fuji digital medium format camera already
http://www.yaotomi.co.jp/products/detail/16467
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You can buy a fuji digital medium format camera already
http://www.yaotomi.co.jp/products/detail/16467
That was the rebadged H1.
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You can buy a fuji digital medium format camera already
http://www.yaotomi.co.jp/products/detail/16467
Thats cute
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Hi Paul,
It seems that those new CMOS backs are quite resistant to aliasing. Not that large pixels and combined with gapless micro lenses.
So I would guess that if Fuji decided to go MF they would return to the Bayer pattern.
Best regards
Erik
Only time will tell, however, they might do well with a MF kit, as they have a lot of glass already, unlike 35mm which would be all new (full frame 35mm).
I would much rather Fuji invest in a better raw converter to take full advantage of their files, I realize that Iridient and other software can do a lot, but LR/Adobe is the main stream path and right now the conversions are lacking IMO, quite a lot. I am still wondering just what the raws from the new 24MP chip will look like.
Paul C
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I agree with chrismuc and would love to see the rumoured Fuji MF essentially become like a "Mini FPS" :)
I wonder how likely this would be considering that all the past "compact" medium format film cameras all had leaf shutters incorporated into the lenses....
One can hope though! :)
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sony fuji 645 camera with revised kyocera Contax 645 mount that takes the old lenses, but also offers new designs.
i would sell both my kidneys for that
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... very few are ;D
Is that a custom or prototype FPS>Mamiya 7 mount? Interesting.
The FPS really has amazing possibilities as a body, shame those adapters are so spendy!
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If this came with a 50 MP digital sensor I think I'd pony up $3K for it. I had similar cameras in the day and they produced some excellent results.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/678957-REG/Fujifilm_16019089_GF670_Rangefinder_Folding_Camera.html