Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: Ligament on May 18, 2014, 04:46:12 am
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Howdy,
Looking at getting into slide in square filters and out of screw on filters. These would be for making long exposures.
Lee seems to be the most mentioned with favorable reviews, but the Formatt Hitech ProStop IRND series seems to be possibly better due to IR filtration.
The Formatt Hitech ProStop IRND series is also very expensive.
Is there really any significant difference using the Formatt Hitech ProStop IRND series to make long exposures?
Are such differences worth the cost?
Thank you!
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Howdy,
Looking at getting into slide in square filters and out of screw on filters. These would be for making long exposures.
Lee seems to be the most mentioned with favorable reviews, but the Formatt Hitech ProStop IRND series seems to be possibly better due to IR filtration.
The Formatt Hitech ProStop IRND series is also very expensive.
Is there really any significant difference using the Formatt Hitech ProStop IRND series to make long exposures?
Are such differences worth the cost?
Hi,
It would take an actual comparison to be sure, here (http://www.achim-sieger.de/en/nd-filter-review-lee-big-stopper-formatt-hitech-prostop-irnd-haida/) is a test I found. I don't know if the ND 3 version of the Hitech exhibits the same, hard to correct, shift of color balance.
Some more info can be found in this thread (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=85926.0).
Cheers,
Bart
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Thanks Bart, you are awesome as always!
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Thanks Bart, you are awesome as always!
You're welcome. Thanks for the nice words.
Cheers,
Bart
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I have a 8 stop ND 77mm Formatt glass screw-in that is so soft it is useless. I e-mailed Formatt about it and they didn't even bother to answer. My Marumis, on the other hand, are great. Get the Lee.
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Older Format filters, in the 0.9 to 1.2 to 3.0 range tended to have a very strong magenta cast, this was in their glass product lines. However they have reformulated their high end filters, now use the White Water glass and the reviews I have read are very good. The early Hitech resin filters also had some issues with color cast, as did the Cokins. Especially in the the 0.9x
I have the Lee 10x big stopper and it is cast free, very nice filter, hard to find at times. I also use the Lee 0.9 & 0.6 ND glass filters both are excellent. I feel they add a bit of warming to the image, but that is easy enough to fix in post. I have held all of the Lee filters up against my Phase One LCC white card, and they show grey, no magenta casts.
Paul
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I bought a hitech 10 stop , the old one without the foam, and it was the biggest waste of money every, utterly unusable.
Now have a Lee big stopper, OK its not perfect but the slight cold/blue cast is relativly easy to fix.
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2846/12943440953_18c5ca598b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/kHLw44)One Calm Tree (https://flic.kr/p/kHLw44) by robjdickinson (https://www.flickr.com/people/45056616@N00/), on Flickr
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1. It appears earlier versions of the Formatt Hitech ND filters had strong casts to them, no doubt.
2. Formatt's new IRND filters are claimed to be color cast free and have significant benefit from the IR filtering during long exposures - is this true? Does this mean the Lee Big Stopper or other big name ND filters do NOT filter IR, or have significant issues from lack of IR filtration?
3. Where do the Singh-ray mor-slo filters fit in the quality continuum? They are EXPENSIVE. Are they worth the price premium? The 15 stop mor-slo option is attractive.
4. Just how important, overall, is the IR filtration capability of an ND for long exposure photography? The Formatt literature places a strong emphasis on IR filtration, as does Joel TJINTJELAAR, who claims better blacks.
Sorry for all the naive questions.
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1. It appears earlier versions of the Formatt Hitech ND filters had strong casts to them, no doubt.
2. Formatt's new IRND filters are claimed to be color cast free and have significant benefit from the IR filtering during long exposures - is this true? Does this mean the Lee Big Stopper or other big name ND filters do NOT filter IR, or have significant issues from lack of IR filtration?
3. Where do the Singh-ray mor-slo filters fit in the quality continuum? They are EXPENSIVE. Are they worth the price premium? The 15 stop mor-slo option is attractive.
4. Just how important, overall, is the IR filtration capability of an ND for long exposure photography? The Formatt literature places a strong emphasis on IR filtration, as does Joel TJINTJELAAR, who claims better blacks.
Sorry for all the naive questions.
Unfortunately, I own one of the old Formatt Hitech filters...
Without the foam gasket, light can enter through the space between the filter and the filter holder; that light will illuminate the front element of your lens, and in front of your lens there is a black and polished surface, that acts as a mirror. In some situations, I could clearly see the front element from my lens when looking through the viewfinder. Not pleasant to see in one of your long-exposure photographs.
This filter also does not properly block IR light, and that is another real problem. To the naked eye, this filter seems quite neutral or even greenish; but most cameras have some sensibility to IR light. Under normal circumstances, your sensor receives lots of visible light and some IR light, that you cannot even notice; when using this filter, your sensor receives very little visible light and some IR light. The result is that photos turn out with a heavy red cast.
And about colour casts:
I guess that some filters are made from a dark material, while others are transparent with a dark coating. In the former type, light rays that cross the filter with an oblique angle have to cross a larger path inside the filter, an thus get more affected by the filter. This is noticeable when using wide angle lenses, because those filters produce a very gradual but noticeable vignetting.
Both vignetting and colour casts can be (easily) corrected during post processing; however, vignetting with a colour cast is very hard to correct.
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1. It appears earlier versions of the Formatt Hitech ND filters had strong casts to them, no doubt.
2. Formatt's new IRND filters are claimed to be color cast free and have significant benefit from the IR filtering during long exposures - is this true? Does this mean the Lee Big Stopper or other big name ND filters do NOT filter IR, or have significant issues from lack of IR filtration?
3. Where do the Singh-ray mor-slo filters fit in the quality continuum? They are EXPENSIVE. Are they worth the price premium? The 15 stop mor-slo option is attractive.
4. Just how important, overall, is the IR filtration capability of an ND for long exposure photography? The Formatt literature places a strong emphasis on IR filtration, as does Joel TJINTJELAAR, who claims better blacks.
Sorry for all the naive questions.
Hi,
The attenuation of IR light is as important as the attenuation of visible light, although the camera usually also has an IR filter built-in in front of the sensor array. The effectiveness of the built-in filter can differ between brands/models, so in order to test a filter one should ideally do it on the same brand/model that is going to be used for the actual shooting. This may also explain some of the different test results that are published on various web pages.
The Bayer CFA filters of your sensor array are transparent to IR, like most dyes are. That means that there will be a pollution of all three color bands if the IR contribution to the exposure gets too prominent. If an ND filter only uses dyes (which are transparent to IR) instead of (additional) special coatings, it may have a neutral density over the visible spectrum but it will relatively amplify the amount of IR that the camera's built-in IR needs to remove, which may fail to a certain extent. That will produce a color cast on the image that's hard to remove.
I think in general, that means that resin filters will let through relatively much IR, because in general they are dye colored. Glass filters can (additionally) be (vacuum deposit) coated with IR reflective (hot-mirror), or absorbing, layers. So glass filters can probably be made to match a higher specific accuracy.
I can confirm that the longer the travel distance through a thick mass-colored filter is, the darker the corners off the resulting image will be rendered. The apparent vignetting will increase for oblique rays. It helps to use a Lens Cast Calibration (LCC) correction as it's called in Capture One, especially on wide angle shots, to address the light fall-off and color cast in a single operation during Raw conversion. It can be combined with a dust removal operation, in case one shoots with a very narrow aperture to allow for even longer exposure times.
Cheers,
Bart
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3. Where do the Singh-ray mor-slo filters fit in the quality continuum? They are EXPENSIVE. Are they worth the price premium? The 15 stop mor-slo option is attractive.
I refuse to buy Singh-ray because of how they treat photographers.
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I have used Singh Ray filters for many years, they are high quality. More recently, I had to get a Lee filter system to use on the Zeiss 21 ZE lens (82mm filter thread). I have a couple of GNDs (one soft, one hard), and a Big Stopper.
I find they are high quality too.
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ttt
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Lee also do their Pro-Glass filters in 0.6 and 0.9 which are adjusted to deal with the UV and IR issues. Good quality, but a lot more expensive than the standard ND filters - I assume this type of filter must take some care in both design and manufacture..
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I refuse to buy Singh-ray because of how they treat photographers.
I agree. There are other options out there that work just as well.
Alan
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I refuse to buy Singh-ray because of how they treat photographers.
In what way? I just ordered 10 stop and 15 stop 130 x 130mm filters yesterday so I'd be keen to know
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Most modern APS-C and FF (135 format) digital cameras have a good strong hot-mirror IR filter applied to the sensor array. I wouldn't think that additional hot-mirror filters would be necessary.
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In what way? I just ordered 10 stop and 15 stop 130 x 130mm filters yesterday so I'd be keen to know
They wanted KKY to supply images for promotional use and brochures but refused to pay anything.
A major photo accessory manufacturer not offering to pay world class award winning photographer for promo shots that use their gear. Way to support their own industry.
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I started using filters with Cokin several decades ago, about a year ago, I tried the Z-pro (huge critters), then I tried the Format Hitech GradND resin filters. They are quite nice. I obtained them from a friend of mine who never used them. I then decided to try the GradND IRND and IRNDND filters (I had a Variable ND from Cokin, but you couldn't go very dark as you would get an X across the frame) So, I ordered the 4x5 glass GradND 5 stop and the 5 stop ND (had to install the gasket, but no big deal) I found the ND to be very neutral an quite easy to use (no issues with light leakage after a 15 minute exposure) The GradND is just as great. You just have to remember to seal/cover the opening between the filter and the holder so you do not get any reflections. Only happens with the sun directly to the front and off to one side (I need to figure out how to stop that when using my GradND on a normal lense. Didn't notice til I uploaded my pictures into LR) and it occurred with extreme shift from my Canon TS-E (reflections were coming from the rear). Once I covered the opening no more reflections (while using the TS-E. Never noticed this with the resin filters. I will be getting the Lee Wide Angle Hood though in short order with their adapter and the adapter for the Canon 17TS-E.
I really like these IRND filters. I can't speak to the quality of Lee vs Hitech as I have not used Lee, Cokin is the only other filters I have used and they are very nice as well. I read a couple of reviews before buying and of course these two artists were all about Hitech. My final decision was made based on my two friends who have been using them and seemed to like them.
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I am fairly new at long exposures, but I have been quite happy with a 13 stop Formatt Hitech 165mm "Firecrest" filter. There is a review somewhere on the internet where someone tested quite a few filters and the Firecrest came out on top. I can't locate the review life of me. The Firecrest are their new line and are glass vs plastic.
The main issues I have had with their Lucroit system and the Nikon 14-24mm is some flare coming off of the filter and a mild distortion of the image compared to no filters. I was able resolve the flair with some modifications to their holder. The distortion is really only noticeable when blending between a filtered image and a non filtered image. In most cases, no big deal, but it can make the blending harder. My guess is it is due to the large amount of glass the oblique rays have to traverse through on a wide angle lens.
The filter seems very neutral and generally does not require much color adjustment. I have ordered several more of their filters, but the wait time seems to be several weeks at B&H.
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I too have ordered to more filters. The Firecresr ND 16 and the .9 GradND. The two references that come to mind are by Julia Anna Gospodarou and Joel Tjintjelaar. Of course I think they are spokespeople for Hitech, but they provide examples and some helpfu' ideas, although I would never use duct tape on my camera.
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LEE filters all the way - their customer spport is second to none and their product is first rate.
When researching filters the hitech always had such mixed reviews that I steered clear. I was recently told that their filters do vary in quality a lot due to the manufacturing process used and some of the strong ND filters can be cast free while others even after WB correction still have a strange cast in some colours.
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So far, I dont' have the color cast and I have not had a problem with their customer support or Lee's when I have called. The examples I have seen show LEE and Cokin with color cast. I think it will come down to personal preference and what does the job for you. I've owned many filters and they all do the job, but I wanted glass this time around, and went off of my friends reviews and some research on the net.
I am talking about the Firecrest filters not the prostop irnd filters which are predecessor to the Firecrest. So, we should be also be sure of which filter family we are talking about. The prostops from what I have read did have some color cast, but so far my Firecrests have none.
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Ok, finally found the review that led me to purchase the Firecrest. http://www.exploringexposure.com/blog/2014/12/2/nd-filter-review . I can agree with the lack of color cast.
Also for anyone into 165mm filters, I found this bag, https://terrascape.pt/filter-bag-onsixfive/?lang=en . I had to order it to the US from their UK reseller and still waiting on delivery.
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Has anyone tried the Lee Wide Angle Hood? I am curious if this will work as intended? I am very interested in this. It also only takes Grad NDs in the landscape position, but it looks like if one were to modify it slightly by adding a second set of mounting holes for the filter holder, you could then mount the filter holder for use of the Grad NDs in the portrait mode. Not an elegant or swift change over, but functional and beats buying the adapter and a second filter holder to rotate on the fly (which also pushes the hood out further in front of the lens which could cause vignetting on very wide angle lenses) Looking for links to reviews or first hand experience.
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The Formatt-HiTech Firecrest filters are neutral and thin. Have confirmed the 16 and 10 stop flavors in 82 and 77mm circular. Only wish they were in brass rather than aluminum for threading but no problems as is.
Do not confuse the old reviews with these new filters.
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Has anyone tried the Lee Wide Angle Hood? I am curious if this will work as intended? I am very interested in this.
Yes, I use the LEE WA hood on every shot I make and it has to be one of the best photography purchases I have ever made. I used it with my Arca Swiss tech camera as it was a great solution when doing stitching with a MF digi back and use it on my all my Canon lenses. The LEE WA hood is the only hood option I know of that can be used on the Canon 17mm TS-E as this lens can be a pig for flare. I started using the hood with the 17mm when LEE released the adapter ring and have never experienced any flare issues since. As they are self supporting you can add more shading to one side of the frame than the other which is an excellent option. The hood can be used with just the lens adapter to fit on very wide angle lenses or you can add filter slots for all your usual filters. Additionally the LEE 105mm adapter ring can be mounted to the hood for use with slim polarisers. If you don't use very wide angle lenses the Universal hood is also very nice and a lot more compact.
You can see it mounted to the 17mm TS-E below.
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It also only takes Grad NDs in the landscape position, but it looks like if one were to modify it slightly by adding a second set of mounting holes for the filter holder, you could then mount the filter holder for use of the Grad NDs in the portrait mode.
There are two sets of mounting holes already on the LEE filter adapter so no drilling needed but you would still have to unscrew the hood from the filter holder to re-position the filter slots for portrait use which is possible but a bit fiddly on a shoot.
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I agree having to undo screws for a reposition is not ideal, but it is a solution and will work great. Not like shooting landscapes requires speed (most of the time) I also like that you can use it with the 17mm TS-E with the adapter. I will be purchasing this item very shortly.