Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: uintaangler on January 31, 2014, 05:05:45 pm
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Thanks to all for the dynamic response to my previous query in this forum ( 44" vs 24" Printer )
Several members suggested that a sporadic printer like myself, somebody who could easily have 2/3 weeks pass between making a print, I would be happier with an HP because of a greatly reduced tendency for clogging.
Previously I hadn't even considered an HP, so I would like to ask, Is the HP Z3200 a good move for me? Any drawbacks I should be aware of?
Assuming I can find an HP Z3100, would that be better than the newer Z3200?
Thanks,
Bob
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I have a Z3200 44". Never failed in 4 years, frugal with ink, prints beautifully, especially B+W and has never clogged despite 3-4 months of disuse. Sheet loading takes getting used to, but works fine. Somewhat slow, not a problem for non commercial use. Love being able to create my own profiles.
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How easy is it to create paper profiles?
Does it work for any major brand of paper?
Thanks.
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^Very easy to create paper profiles. Install the paper and run the routine from the front panel or computer. Works with every paper and canvas type I’ve used.
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I'll 2nd the ease of use of the Z3200, previously having a Z3100 I was happy to do the upgrade. Also it has 6 user replaceable print heads that cost about $55 each, so on the rare occasion you might have a head fail it's dead easy to swap.
Neal
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All things being equal - image quality, color management, etc - how does the Print Quality compare between the HP Z3200 and the Canon IPF6400?
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All things being equal - image quality, color management, etc - how does the Print Quality compare between the HP Z3200 and the Canon IPF6400?
HP has better print longevity, but a slightly smaller gamut.\
The Canon can handle thicker media and has better paper handling in terms of leaving wheel marks, etc.
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Put it this way, regarding colour on the Z3200, I've had no complaints from the photographers and artists I deal with.
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All things being equal - image quality, color management, etc - how does the Print Quality compare between the HP Z3200 and the Canon IPF6400?
I doubt anyone would be unhappy with the results from any of the top 3 wide format printer manufacturers. They all pretty much represent the state of the technology. My observation of printer choices made at LL is that they usually fall along the lines of brand familiarity, features, or lowest initial cost.
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Having the Z3100 for 6 years now-
pro
prints are as beautiful as day 1
I had to do some repair work, If you are handy you can do it yourself and it will safe you a lot of money.
standard is the replacement of the belt ( 40$ but half a day work) - it has a lifetime of about 4-6 years depending on the use and climate.
No gloggs in 6 years- 2 printhead replacements. Uses very little ink to keep the heads clean...
prints a gloss vernish to have prints without gloss differential ; black and white very neutral and extreme longlivety.-
contra-
Not all papers fare well on the printer... It seems to me papermanufacturers have Epson in mind when finetuning a paper.
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Pieter,
Thanks for your response
I like Hahnemuhle papers and Moab papers - any feedback on how the HP does with those papers?
Thanks,
Bob
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I am a very happy owner of a Z3200ps for the last four years in my printing studio, working every day with very few problems so far.
Although it has a slightly smaller color gamut than the actual top Epsons and Canons it is hardly noticeable to the naked eye. It is also the slowest printer in comparison.
On the other hand its advantages are significant (to my line of work):
- Integrated spectro offering easy linearization and profile generation.
- Best print longevity by far.
- No gloss differential and bronzing (thanks to the gloss enhancer).
- Absolutely neutral black and white out of the box.
- User replaceable (and not expensive) print heads.
Again, I am very happy with it.
That said, I must admit that I am thinking about buying a second printer and it will probably be a Canon IPF8400. The 8400 is newer, faster, with a slightly better gamut and come in a close second place in all the categories that are important to me. Add to that the fact that HP is removing the Z3200 from the market. I just received the notice that HP will no longer renew the extended warranty on the Z3200.
I will keep mine and pay for the repairs as long as they offer replacement parts, but I would not buy a new Z3200 today.
Best regards.
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They're retiring the Z3200? What will be its replacement for photo and fine art reproduction, using the full Vivera inket?
It's far too nice an inkset to be relegated to merely printing out blueprints in a commercial or industrial design role.
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They're retiring the Z3200? What will be its replacement for photo and fine art reproduction, using the full Vivera inket?
It's far too nice an inkset to be relegated to merely printing out blueprints in a commercial or industrial design role.
Apparently none. HP is a crazy messed-up company (with a few truly exceptional products) if you ask me!
As far as I could understand they are more focused on the "lower quality/higher volume" print market.
Surely that is a shame.
Best regards.
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Apparently none. HP is a crazy messed-up company (with a few truly exceptional products) if you ask me!
As far as I could understand they are more focused on the "lower quality/higher volume" print market.
Surely that is a shame.
Best regards.
I hope they start selling bulk ink then (instead of just in cartridges) so that I can at least run them through Epson print heads without having to extract them from the cartridge via needle and syringe!
It's a good thing piezo heads are so versatile - you can even run the gloss enhancer through them, as a non-controlled channel. I do wish Epson would go back to using the non-clogging 180-nozzle from the 7800/9800 (just adding more sets of nozzles to support more inks), though, instead of the 360-nozzle design with more clogging issues.
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I just received the notice that HP will no longer renew the extended warranty on the Z3200.
From who did you receive notice? They are wrong, for at least the US market. HP has a part number for their 3 year nbd support for the entire Z3200 line:
http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product/sku/3269423
If they list part number they will provide the support. In addition the Z3200 PS also has part numbers for the 24" and 44" PS models. HP has dropped the PCL series of Z3200 about 1.5 years ago, but the support part number noted above is valid for the entire Z3200 line. At around the same time that HP dropped the PCL series, HP did a major redesign of the Z3200 PS and refer to it as their "B" series of the Z3200 series. Due to this new "do" it represents the SOTA for wide format printers.
This is in the US market. I can't speak for their world wide distribution plans.
BTW, i've used well over 20 paper and canvas types with my Z3100 and never had a problem. For production I've mostly settled to a few paper/canvas types with my Z3200. The bult-in spectro has never failed to make a great profile for any papers i've used.
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From who did you receive notice? They are wrong, for at least the US market. HP has a part number for their 3 year nbd support for the entire Z3200 line:
http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product/sku/3269423
If they list part number they will provide the support. In addition the Z3200 PS also has part numbers for the 24" and 44" PS models. HP has dropped the PCL series of Z3200 about 1.5 years ago, but the support part number noted above is valid for the entire Z3200 line. At around the same time that HP dropped the PCL series, HP did a major redesign of the Z3200 PS and refer to it as their "B" series of the Z3200 series. Due to this new "do" it represents the SOTA for wide format printers.
This is in the US market. I can't speak for their world wide distribution plans.
BTW, i've used well over 20 paper and canvas types with my Z3100 and never had a problem. For production I've mostly settled to a few paper/canvas types with my Z3200. The bult-in spectro has never failed to make a great profile for any papers i've used.
I find that is one of the benefit I enjoy with the HP printers. I can get any paper, take 1/2 hour to profile it and am ready to try it out in print. I too have experimented with many different papers, from canvas, matte to glossy finishes and find the profiles generated by the built in spectro are all excellent. What is nice is that new papers appear every year and I grab a small pack, profile them and try them out to see if I should switch from my current papers. Very handy feature.
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Great responses guys, thanks!
Has anybody seen a good deal on an HP Z3200 44" printer lately?
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Pieter,
Thanks for your response
I like Hahnemuhle papers and Moab papers - any feedback on how the HP does with those papers?
Thanks,
Bob
About papers it is something sensitive and personal.That said Gloss Enhancer does not work that well on many glossy (rag) papers.
I have not been doing tests with printers side by side- for I only have one...Z3100
Moab i do not know...
I like very much the combination HPZ3100 and PhotoRagBaryta from Hahnemuhle and then Black and White- it is my favourate.
The matte PhotoRag 308 for BW also looks great but is very sensitive to touch/scratch. (Maybe a shieldsrpay would help on this problem)
Weak point of the Z3100 are dark reds on matte papers...The Z3200 has different red inks and should be doing better.
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I have the HP Z3100, and I have have few problems with it in the 7 years I have owned it. I received an email from HP in January saying that they will not service the printer after December 31, 2014, and that I could not purchase a care pack for it after December 31, 2013. I had called them in December 2013 to extend my care pack, but was told that I could no longer purchase one for my model.
Anyway, I expect to purchase another large format printer in the next year or so, but I guess I'm going to have to go with Epson or Canon. I'm going to miss my Z3100 when it is gone.
I've attached a copy of the brochure that HP emailed to me that lists all of the printer models that will no longer be serviced. I do not see the Z3200 on the list.
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From who did you receive notice? They are wrong, for at least the US market. HP has a part number for their 3 year nbd support for the entire Z3200 line:
http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product/sku/3269423
Directly from HP Brazil, where I live. Everything here was more or less synchronized with the HP US: printers announcements, printers retirements (including the retirement of the PCL version), the removal of the dual cartridge packages from the market and so on. Maybe this time things are happening a bit faster here.
Earlier this month I received a notification from HP saying they would not renew my extended maintenance plan, a plan they sold me and agreed a month earlier but haven´t billed me yet. At the time of the renewal the clearly stated that the PCL version would not be covered anymore, but as mine is a PS model they would still renew my contract, which now they are refusing to do. We are in the middle of a legal struggle about that and I believe they will be forced to renew it this time, but they clearly stated that they are in the process of retiring this printer worldwide sooner or later.
About the so called "B" version, I heard from an experienced technician that it is exactly the same, the only changes being the manufacturer brand and type of some internal parts, with no impact whatsoever on the printers behavior.
Best regards.
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The firmware upgrades are different for the A en B models .............
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Maybe this time things are happening a bit faster here.
It is certainly possible, even likely. Brazil has a population that is roughly 2/3rds that of the USA. HP would know what their sales are. After my last post I checked a little further and found that HP has service packs available in the USA as noted previously for up to 5 years. They are pretty spendy, but it would cost HP a lot more than the cost of the contract to break one.
Earlier this month I received a notification from HP saying they would not renew my extended maintenance plan, a plan they sold me and agreed a month earlier but haven´t billed me yet. At the time of the renewal the clearly stated that the PCL version would not be covered anymore, but as mine is a PS model they would still renew my contract, which now they are refusing to do.
In the service contracts I found for the USA, the Z3100 all models and the Z3200 all models are supported. You probably did this but I have to ask: - did you see if HP has contract part numbers listed for Brazil? I don’t mean a renewal contract, which may be a different HP part number. Of course HP could be dramatically reducing the availability of support for that entire continent. If their accountants show it isn’t worth their investment, they will understandably run away like a scared cat. I read somewhere that HP has been dropping a number of models throughout South America and your report is suggestive of that trend.
About the so called "B" version, I heard from an experienced technician that it is exactly the same, the only changes being the manufacturer brand and type of some internal parts, with no impact whatsoever on the printers behavior.
The experienced technician I spoke with stated the printer went through a redesign. There are indeed a number of different parts in the B series. But what you wrote in the paragraph above may also be correct. While the differing accounts we received may mean only that we shouldn’t take the word of experienced technicians for these things, I looked around for parts and indeed there are several different part numbers for the B series compared to the A series. To that end, one of the changes was for the power supply and another for the logic board. It may be the case that the B series printer went through a value engineering process. These are sometimes done to improve reliability and to lower cost to the manufacturer. As Ernst noted, the firmware employs different code. That said the performance specifications for the 2 models are similar.
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When I was at the Canon dealer I was sort of surprised the Canon rep mentioned Canon was shooting at HP sales and not Epson. Canon was looking to make more inroads to the architectural printing and HP was in their way. Don't know why they don't see Epson as any threat; maybe they clog too much, service is too expensive, and Canon has a feeling they can't overcome that?
No matter to me as I cannot get a 24" inch anything into my house without busting out a wall. That or toss an A/C unit into the garage along with the printer. Damn old narrow 22" doors built for 1950's thin people instead of current obese wide-body 2014 types! ;)
SG
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guy, fear not... ;-) it should be possible to massage an HP 44 inch 3200 into your home: the printer itself can be separated from the stand - then tilt 90 degrees - if i remember correctly the printer "body" is only approx 15-20 inches high...
btw - had a 3200 ps 44'' myself for 3 years - GREAT machine for occasional use - never clogs (mine was in storage for close to a year - all it took was some 20 minutes of initialization / head cleaning and it was up and running again), and as others mentioned extremely frugal on ink, very neutral BW & top overall print quality, although seemed to be susceptible to scratching and slower than the others.
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Great responses guys, thanks!
Has anybody seen a good deal on an HP Z3200 44" printer lately?
I found a used Z3200PS 44" (and a bunch of paper) for $1,800. It had about 50 prints on it, and had been sitting in storage for a year. New heads were cheap, HP gave me a new warranty, and the printer is exceptional. I also have a 9900 and a 7900. There are many, many differences between both the machines most of what you have already read here. They both render great prints. To me the biggest difference between the two is my state of mind considering owning/running/maintaining them.
Have you ever owned a dog? Amazing companions, a lot of work. You walk them multiple times a day, feed them every night at 7pm and keep them entertained or they wreck your home. Hands down that's my 9900. The Z3200ps however, I do nothing more than put food and water out (leave it turned on) - it takes care of itself.
Epsons are dogs, HPs are cats.
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Nice analogy. Cat lover here. You should have mentioned the sound too.
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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A naïve question perhaps. I am considering purchasing a 44" printer. Based on what I've read, Epson, Canon and HP all produce wonderful prints. The internet is filled with sagas of Epson clogs (I have one upstairs myself right now), Canon is not complaint free either, but I've only found posts from satisfied HP users.
So the question: Why is Epson the dominate ink jet and HP appears to be a distant third? Too few HP users to have many problems? Most large Epsons are in a production environment and kept under a service contract, so a clog is Epson's problem?
Tom
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So the question: Why is Epson the dominate ink jet and HP appears to be a distant third?
I think the main reason is that HP management has been a succession of train wrecks for many years. It's just a dysfunctional mess. Fortunately, there are some very capable people below the senior management level that seem to do good work despite the circumstances they are given.
I'm another Z3100 user that's had nothing but good results with mine for six years of heavy printing. I will most likely buy a Z3200 before too long, despite the allure of the Canon line, just because I don't want to have to sort things out for existing print editions for my clients with an entirely new line of printer. I worked my way up as Epson grew their printer line from letter size, to tabloid, to multiple generations of wide format printers, and am 100% over the Epson experience. Not enough competition makes for a complacent and apathetic company, and I think there is a level of f*ck you built into every printer they sell.
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I am an HP Z 3100 user. For me after my epson 7600. I am very happy it is so cheap on inks. The epson was like a vampire. Price per print means nothing how much ink it goes through just sitting around is the killer. If HP is done I am truly sad. It makes great black and white prints has the longest life. When this printer dies will go to Canon. The only problem m for me is it truly sucks with sheet paper.