Luminous Landscape Forum

The Art of Photography => User Critiques => Topic started by: Jeremy Roussak on January 26, 2014, 04:37:35 pm

Title: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on January 26, 2014, 04:37:35 pm
Thoughts?

Jeremy
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Christoph C. Feldhaim on January 26, 2014, 04:44:05 pm
Thoughts?

Jeremy

Nice image - but it needs some more love.
I think some local contrast would help it, like USM with large radius.
After that some curves contrast.
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Johnny_Johnson on January 26, 2014, 04:44:22 pm
I like it a lot Jeremy. It's a nice change from the over saturated color images ( like mine  ;D) that you normally see.

Later,
Johnny
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on January 26, 2014, 07:21:28 pm
It is much nicer than just another color splash from Antelope, but I agree with Chris that it could use more contrast (carefully done).
Pramote's recent stunning black and white Antelope is a hard act to follow, but this has definite possibilities.

Eric
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: wolfnowl on January 26, 2014, 07:26:06 pm
Yes.  To me this is all about the patterns - both the patterns in the edges of the rock and the patterns within the rock itself.  If you could accentuate those patterns without going 'neon' on them I think it would be much improved.

Mike.
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: francois on January 27, 2014, 11:50:32 am
I agree with previous comment about local contrast. I find it wonderful when it comes to the shapes/patterns but otherwise find that it's a bit flat in local contrast.
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on January 30, 2014, 03:31:10 am
Thanks, all. How about this, then?

Eric, it was of course Pramote's fantastic shot which gave me the idea of returning to some of mine and seeing what they looked like in b&w. I can't compete with either his kit or his ability, so abstracts seemed to be the way to go!

Jeremy

Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Christoph C. Feldhaim on January 30, 2014, 04:24:51 am
Jeremy,
I'm afraid you made it worse in the attempt to give it some pop.

I want to be so bold to suggest a different edit which attempts to preserve the subtlety of the original and still add a little punch.

What I did in PS was to add a copy of the base layer and do a Gaussian blur with 12.7 pixel radius to it.
I set this layers transparency to 75% to weaken it a little and set it to "overlay" mode to give the underlying original some pop.
Finally I changed the blending options so, that it got reduced power in the shadows for not clipping blacks.
To achieve this I pulled the black point slider of the "underlying layer" controls in the blending options of the layer apart using the "Alt" key when dragging it and pulled the half of it up to 73.
This way the overlay layer couldn't deepen the shadows too much.
I hope I didn't overstep a line here, but this image deserves all the love it can get.

Cheers
~Chris
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on January 30, 2014, 01:07:42 pm
Jeremy,

I think your second version is an improvement, but I also think Chris's version really comes alive.

Chris,

If I ever get to Antelope Canyon, I think I'll hire you to process my pix for me.

-Eric

P.S. That is a gorgeous photo!
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on January 30, 2014, 02:44:02 pm
Jeremy,
I'm afraid you made it worse in the attempt to give it some pop.

I want to be so bold to suggest a different edit which attempts to preserve the subtlety of the original and still add a little punch.

What I did in PS was to add a copy of the base layer and do a Gaussian blur with 12.7 pixel radius to it.
I set this layers transparency to 75% to weaken it a little and set it to "overlay" mode to give the underlying original some pop.
Finally I changed the blending options so, that it got reduced power in the shadows for not clipping blacks.
To achieve this I pulled the black point slider of the "underlying layer" controls in the blending options of the layer apart using the "Alt" key when dragging it and pulled the half of it up to 73.
This way the overlay layer couldn't deepen the shadows too much.
I hope I didn't overstep a line here, but this image deserves all the love it can get.

Cheers
~Chris

Chris, I think on reflection that you're right: I overdid the processing and spoiled the image. I like your treatment (and there's no question of overstepping anything: I post photos here to get all the help anyone's willing to give me!), but I think there's a bit too much detail lost, particularly in the central shadows. Over the weekend, I'll give your approach a try, though, so thanks for the suggestions.

Jeremy
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Christoph C. Feldhaim on January 30, 2014, 02:51:43 pm
Chris, I think on reflection that you're right: I overdid the processing and spoiled the image. I like your treatment (and there's no question of overstepping anything: I post photos here to get all the help anyone's willing to give me!), but I think there's a bit too much detail lost, particularly in the central shadows. Over the weekend, I'll give your approach a try, though, so thanks for the suggestions.

Jeremy

I agree - some final sharpening would have improved it.
Though there will be differences if processing it for the web or a print.
I'm curious to see your result when integrating all the various ideas.
Cheers
~Chris
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: wolfnowl on January 30, 2014, 06:34:03 pm
Yes, Chris added a great touch to the piece.

Mike.
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on January 30, 2014, 07:22:24 pm
Jeremy,

I think Chris's version has such nice detail in the light areas that you don't need full detail in the shadows, as long as they don't go to "black hole" density. His shadows still have a nice sense of depth since they aren't pure black, and the detail in the lighter areas sufficiently suggests the presence of detail in the shadows, at least to my eyes.

It and Pramote's are now my favorite Antelope photos. And he could improve his by gently blurring the footprints in the sand, as someone suggested.

Eric
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Riaan van Wyk on January 31, 2014, 12:41:30 am
Hi Jeremy, I'm quite fond of the photo- lots of lines and curves to stare at. I feel a touch of dodging and burning might be beneficial.
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on February 01, 2014, 09:52:38 am
Christoph,

Looking at your version, I'm embarrassed by my clumsiness in my first attempts to increase local contrast! I've played around with it a little more and come up with this, which I now like.

I've used the method you suggested, with just a little more transparency in the blurred layer (opacity 60% rather than your 75%). I've also masked out the blurred layer in a few places, particularly the circular swirl in the upper centre and the darker shadow to its lower right.

Further comments appreciated, as ever.

Jeremy
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Christoph C. Feldhaim on February 01, 2014, 10:00:42 am
Christoph,

Looking at your version, I'm embarrassed by my clumsiness in my first attempts to increase local contrast! I've played around with it a little more and come up with this, which I now like.

I've used the method you suggested, with just a little more transparency in the blurred layer (opacity 60% rather than your 75%). I've also masked out the blurred layer in a few places, particularly the circular swirl in the upper centre and the darker shadow to its lower right.

Further comments appreciated, as ever.

Jeremy


Seeing our edits side by side its obvious we are in the realm of subjectivisms and vision.
I like both edits.

The method I suggested in my post basically is a variation of some sort of unsharp masking.

Used in a separate layer and together with the blending options its a great tool for working on local contrast and
for finding the spatial frequencies which need enhancement by playing with the blur radius after the layer mode has been set.
If you do it as a smart filter you can even change it later.
Another way is to try screen and multiply modes if you want to work mainly on the shadows or lights respectively.
Or combine them all together with different radii, modes and such.
The trick is basically to see the frequencies which need a boost and to keep an eye on your histogram.
Playing around and learning to see what does what is the key, of course.

So I'm glad I could help a bit.
Your image definitely is worth all the effort.

Cheers
~Chris
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on February 01, 2014, 10:36:09 am
OK, Jeremy, I'm sold on it.
The new version looks and feels completely intentional.
What a great shot! Now make a BIG print of it!
(and send us each a copy   ;)  )
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: sdwilsonsct on February 02, 2014, 06:08:16 pm
Wow. The multiple directions in the strata call to mind some deep, varied musical score.
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Tony Jay on February 02, 2014, 06:29:45 pm
Only came across this thread now.

Jeremy, I really like the evolution of that image.
It started with promise but rather unfulfilled to a final result that Eric correctly comments that it needs a really large print to appreciate.
Must be a nice feeling.

Congratulations!

Tony Jay
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: RSL on February 03, 2014, 08:43:30 am
OK, Jeremy, I'm sold on it.
The new version looks and feels completely intentional.
What a great shot! Now make a BIG print of it!
(and send us each a copy   ;)  )

+1
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Riaan van Wyk on February 03, 2014, 01:26:02 pm
.....Now make a BIG print of it!
(and send us each a copy   ;)  )


Best thing I've heard in a long time...may I send my address Jeremy?
Title: Re: antelope abstract #2
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on February 03, 2014, 05:13:07 pm
Once again, thank you all very much. This is the reason I love LuLa so much. I took a rather dull, uninteresting colour image and made it a bit better in b&w. Then, with assistance from you, in particular Christoph, I've learned how to make it a photograph that I really like. Tony, you found the perfect word: evolution.

Even better, I've also learned techniques which I think will come in very handy in the future

The big print (well, A2, which is the best I can manage at home) will roll off my 3800 at the weekend!

Jeremy