Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: BillOConnor on September 23, 2013, 10:30:17 am
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I have a Mamiya AF 35mm f3.5 that seems to be a good copy, though I have nothing to compare it to. My question is: Are there any good versions of the Mamiya C 35mm f3.5 N lenses out there, manual focus, manual aperture, or are they all inferior to the AF version?
I have a 110mm f2.8 C that is verrrrry sharp, so I was wondering.
Bill O'Connor
I looked for this as a topic in a previous posting, but could not find anything.
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I don't think you will find one that is "better" than the AF version, but as they are so cheap on the net, it's always worth a try. I used the N non AF version for years on my Canon's with a Zork adapter until I dropped it. I then switched to the Pentax 645 version of the Zork and used the Pentax 35mm AF lens, which for my use was totally superior to both versions of the Mamiya 35mm. Pentax had a manual aperture ring. I wish I had not sold that one! I found the N non AF version to be lacking in contrast and a bit colder than the AF version.
Also depends on the camera/back you are using it on.
Paul Caldwell
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Both, the Pentax 645 35mm A and FA are exceptional lenses for the money (my "A" copy is a bit better than my ex "FA" copy) - there is no chance for the 35mm Mamiya at all.
For comparison reasons, here are some 100% crops - of course - you have to use either the Pentax 645D or the Alpa FPS/Hcam:
Hcam + Pentax 645 A 35mm + Aptus II 8
(http://www.adrianschulz.de/forum/pentax35mmsample_01.jpg)
center:
(http://www.adrianschulz.de/forum/pentax35mmsample_02.jpg)
right:
(http://www.adrianschulz.de/forum/pentax35mmsample_03.jpg)
lower right edge:
(http://www.adrianschulz.de/forum/pentax35mmsample_04.jpg)
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So, is it common knowledge that the MF Pentax 35mm f3.5 is better glass most of the time than the MF Mamiya 35mm f3.5?
Also, the image given was on a Leaf Aptus II8, a smaller sensor. I use a P65+. Now both lenses were designed to cover a film area the same size as the larger sensor, so . . . All parameters are equal.
If others have found that the Pentax lens is generally superior to the MF Mamiya lens in this focal length, then it is what it is. It would be nice to hear from others, Aphoto might have a superior copy of Pentax glass, or they might just be better. I use this focal length a lot, so that's why I'm pursuing this further.
Bill
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Just a thought, depending on your budget, you may want to consider a Schneider apo-Digitar, SK35mm. This means moving to a tech camera, but by far this will give you the best results in the 35mm Medium format. The SK35 is an excellent lens, and on a P65+ you can get about 8 to 10mm of shift. This means moving to a tech camera but if you want the sharpest 35mm, or any wide on a medium format, then the tech camera solution (Alpa, Arca, or Cambo) may be where you want to look.
I don't believe either the AF, N or newer Phase One D versions of the 35mm F 3.5 will get you close to the results of the SK35 on your P65+.
Paul Caldwell
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The Pentax 35mm is one of the sharpest wideangle lenses ever. Pentax had a much lower sample variation than Mamiya.
And not to forget: 1.Price compared to an Apo Digitar......., No LCC necessary, much less vignette and with a Mirex there are still some movements.
Overall: take a look at the used prices and you can clearly see the votum of the buyers, at least double the price for the pentax
compared to a mamiya N35mm
Greetings from Germany
Stefan
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If Bill is using a Mamiya AF 35mm I have to assume he has the Mamiya 645 body also with the P65+. The Pentax 35 is a great lens but I don't know of a way to use it on a Mamiya as the Pentax and Mamiya 645's both have the sae flange focal distance. A mount adapter will push the Pentax so that it won't focus at infinity on the Mamiya. I looked into having a custom mount adapter made by SK Grimes to allow a Pentax to Mamiya mount until I realized I would lose the focus at infinity.
The resolution differences between a Pentax 645D and a P65+ of approx 20 MP would possibly tax the Pentax 35FA also. When I had mine I was shifting with a Zork adapter on 35mm Canon digital bodies of 16mp and 20mp.
Paul Caldwell
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Hi, i put up some centre and edge sharpness crops in the 'and the best wide angle lens is' thread in this forum. That was for the af non-d version, used on the p65 back.
I haven't yet taken a 'real' photo with the 35mm - it got carried through the karijini gorges last week but i did all my actual shooting with the 28mm and 45mm phase lenses on either side of its focal length range. I will have to give it a fair go sometime soon.
If the 28mm could be used with filters, i'd have no role for this lens, but it's the widest df lens that i can practically put a nd or polariser in front of.
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So, is it common knowledge that the MF Pentax 35mm f3.5 is better glass most of the time than the MF Mamiya 35mm f3.5?
Also, the image given was on a Leaf Aptus II8, a smaller sensor. I use a P65+. Now both lenses were designed to cover a film area the same size as the larger sensor, so . . . All parameters are equal.
I have also samples with 5mm shift to the right (= simulation of a 54mm wide sensor):
(http://www.adrianschulz.de/forum/pentax35mmsample_05.jpg)
(http://www.adrianschulz.de/forum/pentax35mmsample_06.jpg)
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I have a Mamiya AF 35mm f3.5 that seems to be a good copy, though I have nothing to compare it to. My question is: Are there any good versions of the Mamiya C 35mm f3.5 N lenses out there, manual focus, manual aperture, or are they all inferior to the AF version?
They 35mm N lenses cannot all be inferior to the AF version, since they have identical optical formulae.
The first round of AF lenses, from the 35/3.5 to 150/3.5 and the 55-110mm & 105-210mm zooms, were all N optics in new AF barrels.
Only the 210/4 ULD and 300/4.5 APO were new designs in the early AF lineup.
I have a 110mm f2.8 C that is verrrrry sharp, so I was wondering.
Indeed. I have the N version of the 110/2.8...excellent little lens.
Ray
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.......................... It would be nice to hear from others, Aphoto might have a superior copy of Pentax glass, or they might just be better. I use this focal length a lot, so that's why I'm pursuing this further.
Bill
Bill:
I have no experience with the Mamiya lens, but like Aphoto have had both the A and FA Pentax 35mm and kept the A version. An example of the A on a 645D: full scene and crop from the lower left corner.
Tom
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I use the Pentax FA version on a zork adapter...
I'm interested in what people found to be the better characteristics on the A version - and why they ended up keeping it.
Cheers
Andrew
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Andrew:
I had one copy of each and the A version was clearly sharper in the corners. If you look at the upscaled crop I posted above, you can see the sharpness at the pixel level; if memory is correct that's a 400% view. Maybe just my samples, but the apparent consensus among 645D users is that the A version is the better performer. The FA version also has a curved plane of focus which can be problematic.
Tom
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Andrew:
The FA version also has a curved plane of focus which can be problematic.
That's the main reason why I switched from FA to A.
And sometimes at infinity, there were slightly blurred areas within the picture - non-reproducible in different situation.
Now, I'm very happy with the performance of the A - even moderately shifted.
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This was one of the reasons for my question. If I purchased the Hartblei camera with the Canon 24mm TS, would the performance of the 35mm Pentax lens be worth the price of a second Myrex adapter? I have the Mamiya 50mm shift and it is an excellent copy, but 24mm to 50mm is too big a jump. The question becomes, do I roll the dice and try to find a good copy of a Mamiya 35mm MF, which may mean sending several back, or just jump in with the Pentax lens?
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Since you have the Mirex Canon adapter, I would simply purchase a Pentax 645 to EOS adapter in order to use a Pentax lens.
Here's a good one for $80:
http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Pentax-Canon-Camera/dp/B002JXTHLE
The Pentax 35mm A version is about $400 and could be resold without a loss if necessary.
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Since you have the Mirex Canon adapter, I would simply purchase a Pentax 645 to EOS adapter in order to use a Pentax lens.
Here's a good one for $80:
http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Pentax-Canon-Camera/dp/B002JXTHLE
The Pentax 35mm A version is about $400 and could be resold without a loss if necessary.
Well, I guess, the Mirex adapter is CanonEOS>Mamiya645, so that doesn't work. If he wants to shift, he needs a new Mirex or Zork CanonEOS>Pentax645 adapter
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Adrian:
The 645/EOS adapter in essence turns the Pentax into an EOS mount lens, so it should mount on his Mirex EOS/Mamiya adapter.
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A question for Bill, where are you trying to use the Mamiya 35mm F 3.5 manual lens or the Pentax 35mm F. You had mentioned you have a P65+ which would require a Mamiya 645 camera, (DF, AFDIII etc) to use the Mamiya 35mm lens either AF or Manual.
I don't think the Myrex or any other Pentax to Mamiya solution will work as you will push the lens past infinity. It's my understanding that Mamiya 645 and Pentax 645 have the same flange focal distance, thus there are no mount adapters I know of. You can mount Mamiya or Pentax 645 to Canon EOS with any of the mounts/tilt shift adapters already mentioned. I used the standard Zork for years on EOS cameras. But when I tried to find a way to adapt my Pentax 35mm FA to Mamiya so I could use it on my AFDIII Mamiya Camera, I was told there was not a way due to the flange focal issue. The only way I discovered was SK Grimes and having the mount switched out. I looked into that but also knew I would kill the value of the 35mm FA so I didn't go that route.
The already mentioned Hartblei will allow the use of the Canon 24 TS-E on your P65+ as you mentioned and that is a great combination from the images I have seen since the Canon 24TS-E II is an excellent lens and holds up to the resolution of the P65+ even IQ180. But that is big investment.
If you are trying to use the Pentax 35mm FA or A on the EOS then Zork, or Myrex have great solutions, I used the Zork for years. I used both the Mamiya 35mm Manual F 3.5 and Pentax FA (which has a manual aperture ring allowing it's use) and hands down the Pentax was superior on shifts to 15mm to 18mm (max of the Zork). For center only it was a a toss up, as both lenses were excellent non-shifted. The Pentax was also just a bit sharper wide open to F5.6.
Paul Caldwell
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The pentax 35 mm sharper than tha Apo digitar,.. As i have the Apo digitar and i am not that extreamly empressed.. Certanly not in the corners, and not at all if one shits a bit ..
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The question becomes, do I roll the dice and try to find a good copy of a Mamiya 35mm MF, which may mean sending several back, or just jump in with the Pentax lens?
It really isn't a question of finding a "a good copy of a Mamiya 35mm MF". What people often mistake for a "bad copy" is that these lenses - all of them - have strong field curvature which makes distant details soft towards the edges. They could all be very good copies, but the design itself has that flaw.
So if you are not tied to a Mamiya camera (and you are not if you're adapting to a Canon), you might be better off with the Pentax 35mm lens.
Adrian:
The 645/EOS adapter in essence turns the Pentax into an EOS mount lens, so it should mount on his Mirex EOS/Mamiya adapter.
Unfortunately that won't work as both adapters have the medium format lens on the front, EOS camera on the back.
Ray
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As always results differ as I don't feel a Pentax 35mm FA or F on a P65+ or any 60 MP back or higher will out perform a Schneider SK35mm espeically on center. I have used the SK35 for almost 2 years now and it's a very very sharp lens both on the P45+ and P65+ class backs. It suffers on shifts past 9mm on the P65+ backs with both detail smearing and saturation loss. However you can't shift a Pentax 35mm F or FA at least on a medium format back, yes you can shift it all day on long a EOS or Nikon.
My Pentax FA was boxed in Japan, but made in Vietnam, which surprised me as the outer ring said made in Japan, but when you looked inside the back of the lens near the last element it was stamped made in Vietnam. Not sure what was up there. Still was a good lens.
By far the single biggest limitation is that the SK35 has to have the physical CF installed otherwise your image will suffer too much due to vignetting and light fall off. The CF adds at least 2 stops of exposure which makes the 35mm SK a very slow lens only. The 40mm Rodenstock which can be easily used without a physical CF is better here if you can live with a bit less focal length.
Center on frame on, only, it would be a interesting test. My 35mm SK is the sharpest 35mm I have ever used in Medium format in the F8 to F16 range. It's not very good below F8 and diffraction sets in a bit past F16. This on 60MP and 80MP backs. The Mamiya 35mm AF F3.5 and Phase One D versions can't come close especially in the corners. A nodal pan with the Pentax vs the SK35 would an interesting test. I always try to nodal pan when I can instead of shift due to all the color shifting issues that shifting brings into play (even with a LCC corrections).
Most people I know of using the Pentax FA or F are using it on a Pentax 645 and that sensor is going to be a bit more forgiving that the Dalsa 60MP chips or higher. Still a great lens and one I don't think is being made anymore.
Paul Caldwell
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dear paul2660
i was wondering if you have an examples of what you describe using the 35xl on a p65+ back?
i have been steering away from the lense since the specs say it cannot be used with sensors greater than 37x49mm
thanks & all the best
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It really isn't a question of finding a "a good copy of a Mamiya 35mm MF". What people often mistake for a "bad copy" is that these lenses - all of them - have strong field curvature which makes distant details soft towards the edges. They could all be very good copies, but the design itself has that flaw.
So if you are not tied to a Mamiya camera (and you are not if you're adapting to a Canon), you might be better off with the Pentax 35mm lens.
Unfortunately that won't work as both adapters have the medium format lens on the front, EOS camera on the back.
Ray
Ray,
Perhaps the OP could clarify what equipment he is or will be using. Based on the quote below, I had the impression he was adapting a Canon T/S and so a 645/EOS adapter would work as well.
This was one of the reasons for my question. If I purchased the Hartblei camera with the Canon 24mm TS, would the performance of the 35mm Pentax lens be worth the price of a second Myrex adapter? I have the Mamiya 50mm shift and it is an excellent copy, but 24mm to 50mm is too big a jump. The question becomes, do I roll the dice and try to find a good copy of a Mamiya 35mm MF, which may mean sending several back, or just jump in with the Pentax lens?
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Ray,
Perhaps the OP could clarify what equipment he is or will be using. Based on the quote below, I had the impression he was adapting a Canon T/S and so a 645/EOS adapter would work as well.
I think he is talking about the Hcam, which has a Canon EOS mount.
Because of the focal flange distance, only the following combinations are possible:
Canon EOS mount to:
- Canon FD: NO
- Nikon: YES
- Pentax645: YES
- Contax 645: YES
- Mamiya 645: YES
- Hasselblad: YES
Nikon mount to:
- Canon: NO
- Pentax645: YES
- Contax 645: YES
- Mamiya 645: YES
- Hasselblad: YES
Pentax 645 mount to:
- Canon EOS: NO
- Nikon: NO
- Pentax 67: YES
- Contax 645: NO
- Mamiya 645: NO
- Hasselblad: YES
Mamiya 645 mount to:
- Canon EOS: NO
- Nikon: NO
- Pentax 645: YES, but only in theory. There is not enough space for the mechanical parts of the aperture control, as Mr Zoerkendoerfer told me
- Contax 645: NO
- Mamiya 645: NO
- Hasselblad: YES
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Announcement:
HCam is now into looking to do a mount conversion for Pentax 645 lenses-especially the 35mm SMC/A to Mamiya 645/AF.
There will be a complete new Bajonet replacement to keep infinity. If the adaptation will work I will post more infos soon.
Greetings from Germany
Stefan
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HCam is now into looking to do a mount conversion for Pentax 645 lenses-especially the 35mm SMC/A to Mamiya 645/AF.
There will be a complete new Bajonet replacement to keep infinity. If the adaptation will work I will post more infos soon.
:-) That will save me from buying a Pentax 645 Mirex Adapter
Thanks from Zuerich
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Stefan, you are such a troublemaker.
Thank goodness for people like you.
Bill
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Walked into the team digital shop in perth this arvo and noticed that the print framed on the wall is a landscape shot with the mamiya 35mm and a P65+.
First time i've ever seen someone promoting this lens. Owner said the 'tog 'had a good copy'.
Still haven't really shot with my mamiya 35mm (supposedly a good copy too) on the P65+ - doing some landscapes down south at the moment but have had to travel with a light-ish kit so the 35mm is back home.