Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: francois on July 31, 2013, 07:05:13 am
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Yesterday, I just got the news that Ilford Imaging failed to find a solution to its financial problems and bankruptcy will be declared very soon.
The translated article (via Google Translate) is here (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.swissinfo.ch%2Ffre%2Fnouvelles_agence%2Finternational%2FIlford_ne_trouve_pas_de_repreneur%2C_220_salaries_sur_le_carreau.html%3Fcid%3D36576190).
The original article is here (http://www.swissinfo.ch/fre/nouvelles_agence/international/Ilford_ne_trouve_pas_de_repreneur,_220_salaries_sur_le_carreau.html?cid=36576190).
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And reports in English here: http://worldradio.ch/wrs/news/wrsnews/ilford-imaging-bankrupt-cut-220-jobs.shtml?36618
http://www.thelocal.ch/20130731/220-workers-lose-jobs-as-ilford-shuts-fribourg-plant
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/photo-news/539881/ilford-imaging-switzerland-put-up-for-sale
Brian A
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Most unfortunate, but it isn't over till it's over. Maybe under bankruptcy protection for a while they will find a solution for a rebirth.
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Most unfortunate, but it isn't over till it's over. Maybe under bankruptcy protection for a while they will find a solution for a rebirth.
I sure hope so.
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http://www.ilfordphoto.com/pressroom/article.asp?n=170
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http://www.ilfordphoto.com/pressroom/article.asp?n=170
Ilford Photo and Ilford Imaging are different companies. Ilford Imaging in Marly, Switzerland is or was the manufacturer of the Ilford paper range such as Gold Fibre Silk and other fine papers.
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I spoke to the owner of my local camera shop about this yesterday. They are a big retailer of Ilford ink jet paper, as well as the other big names. He told me his USA supplier told him the bankruptcy was part of a reorganization plan, much like GM. Hopefully he is right! I am about to test some Ilford paper on my new Canon Pro-100.
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I spoke to the owner of my local camera shop about this yesterday. They are a big retailer of Ilford ink jet paper, as well as the other big names. He told me his USA supplier told him the bankruptcy was part of a reorganization plan, much like GM. Hopefully he is right! I am about to test some Ilford paper on my new Canon Pro-100.
He's probably right to the extent that bankruptcy protection is an umbrella under which to reorganize and emerge afresh with a clean balance sheet. The ominous factor about this one however is that during the period of receivership they were unable to find a strategic investor. Maybe if the price sinks low enough it will happen.
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Ok.. This Thread is getting Comical..First off If They are Shut down at The plant.. That Means Nothing is being made..So If you use that product than stock up...Nothing is Ever the Same.. Ever.. Again..If its Made there.. If a New Operation Comes in To Run the Plant.. who Knows If it was shut down properly or formulated The Same..Or If Its even the same paper making machine..Just my .02 worth here..My recco Is To Start the process of looking a replacement products.. ;)
Jim Doyle
Shades Of Paper
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Jim, my thoughts too. On the other hand replacements that are too close in appearance could come from the same source...so supply may dry up as fast.
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Ok.. This Thread is getting Comical..First off If They are Shut down at The plant.. That Means Nothing is being made..So If you use that product than stock up...Nothing is Ever the Same.. Ever.. Again..If its Made there.. If a New Operation Comes in To Run the Plant.. who Knows If it was shut down properly or formulated The Same..Or If Its even the same paper making machine..Just my .02 worth here..My recco Is To Start the process of looking a replacement products.. ;)
Jim Doyle
Shades Of Paper
The thread isn't getting comical - it's serious and has commercial implications for photographers who like those products. Some of the paper at least, Gold Fibre Silk for example is actually manufactured in Germany, but that makes no difference. If it's their IP, its fate *as an Ilford product* probably depends on what happens to the company. Of course, under bankruptcy protection there can be either a reoriganization and strategic investment, or a sell-off of the IP, in which case a buyer could resume manufacture - but all of that is so uncertain at this point, That said, you can also buy Cansom Baryta Photographic which replaces it almost identically. There's a reason for that but I'm not sure it's public domain knowledge. Your advice to stock-up makes sense because once their stock runs out, if there is no effecitve competition for certain finishes, the prices of the nearest substitutes are likely to be increased. There is a history to that.
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Some of the paper at least, Gold Fibre Silk for example is actually manufactured in Germany, but that makes no difference. If it's their IP, its fate *as an Ilford product* probably depends on what happens to the company. That said, you can also buy Canson Baryta Photographic which replaces it almost identically. There's a reason for that but I'm not sure it's public domain knowledge.
I would say make it public domain. That is in the interest of the forum members here. Other distributors could make alternatives available if they know the manufacturer that could deliver it. I could guess that it is either Sihl that does the coating or Felix Schoeller that can make the complete paper inline in its plant in Weissenborn, eastern Germany, specialised in Baryta papers. But that is speculation.
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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There are some very good alternatives who looks like, nearly the same.
But we (Distributor) don´t promote it at this time.
lford is not dead at this point and therefore we will wait what happen with the product range.
Jimmy, looking around is o.k. - do you know the "MediaJet ArtistLine" range?
regards
Oliver
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There is no reason to hide your treasures Oliver or treasures from other distributors:
The Ilford GFS is easily replaced with the Canson Baryta Photographique, Bonjet Atelier Fibre, Mediajet PhotoArt White Baryta. All 310 gsm. Similar spectral plot.
Two papers that come close in spectral plot but cotton based so most likely from another source: Breathing Color Vibrance Rag 310 gsm and Pictorico GKR Pro B&W Cotton Gloss 265 gsm.
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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lford is not dead at this point and therefore we will wait what happen with the product range.
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The fate (bankruptcy or SC) of Ilford Imaging will be decided on the 19th of August. That's the latest news. The employees have not yet been laid off.
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Ok.. This Thread is getting Comical..First off If They are Shut down at The plant.. That Means Nothing is being made..So If you use that product than stock up...Nothing is Ever the Same.. Ever.. Again..If its Made there.. If a New Operation Comes in To Run the Plant.. who Knows If it was shut down properly or formulated The Same..Or If Its even the same paper making machine..Just my .02 worth here..My recco Is To Start the process of looking a replacement products.. ;)
Jim Doyle
Shades Of Paper
If you weren't so blatantly 'talking your book' it might be possible to take your comments seriously. If you wrote with some measure of literacy and not in broken 'text-speak' it might be possible to take your comments seriously. Absent, at least, those two things, your comments are pretty comical. If I used Ilford papers I may look around for alternatives but it certainly wouldn't be to Shades of Paper.
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Jim sells Ilford and other brands. I do not think he gains anything with his comments and gives good advice; stock and look for alternatives. The subject is serious enough and I do not think Jim sees it otherwise. That he finds it comical when people try to be optimistic about Ilford's fate I can understand, this is not coming out of the blue.
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Bob, I buy alot of Ilford and other papers from Jim Doyle, I have never known him to give other than straight advice. Ernst is right.
If you can't deal with his writing style, by all means, buy elsewhere- it's your loss, but of course, YMMV
my 5ç
If you weren't so blatantly 'talking your book' it might be possible to take your comments seriously. If you wrote with some measure of literacy and not in broken 'text-speak' it might be possible to take your comments seriously. Absent, at least, those two things, your comments are pretty comical. If I used Ilford papers I may look around for alternatives but it certainly wouldn't be to Shades of Paper.
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If you weren't so blatantly 'talking your book' it might be possible to take your comments seriously. If you wrote with some measure of literacy and not in broken 'text-speak' it might be possible to take your comments seriously. Absent, at least, those two things, your comments are pretty comical. If I used Ilford papers I may look around for alternatives but it certainly wouldn't be to Shades of Paper.
Bob, it's not clear to me how the thread gains information value from this kind of commentary. This is a forum for serious users where of course differences of opinion are half the fun, but not personal attacks.
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I would say make it public domain. That is in the interest of the forum members here. Other distributors could make alternatives available if they know the manufacturer that could deliver it. I could guess that it is either Sihl that does the coating or Felix Schoeller that can make the complete paper inline in its plant in Weissenborn, eastern Germany, specialised in Baryta papers. But that is speculation.
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
If one is told something in confidence, that's the rules. Sorry. All I can convey is that there is good reason to consider IGFS and Canson BP pretty much the same thing. And empirically I have used both interchangeably even with the same profile; the feel and the results are so close to identical most people wouldn't notice any difference at all. OK? People can take my word for it or disregard it as they please.
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Bob, it's not clear to me how the thread gains information value from this kind of commentary. This is a forum for serious users where of course differences of opinion are half the fun, but not personal attacks.
It's not a personal attack, Mark. He's trying to promote a business. I don't know whether he stocks Ilford papers or not. One wouldn't think so from his comments. Hence the 'talking his book' reference. Further, the manner in which he's expressed himself, which is barely literate, doesn't do his business any favours and I am disinclined, as a result, to look to his shop as a supplier. Not the least bit personal.
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It's not a personal attack, Mark. He's trying to promote a business. I don't know whether he stocks Ilford papers or not. One wouldn't think so from his comments. Hence the 'talking his book' reference. Further, the manner in which he's expressed himself, which is barely literate, doesn't do his business any favours and I am disinclined, as a result, to look to his shop as a supplier. Not the least bit personal.
Well, we have a different view of what passes for *personal*.
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Then, will the canson paper continue to be made, Mark? It seems like Jim is saying it won't be as it was being made by Ilford. At least, that's what I understood him to say. I hope I'm wrong.
Sharon
The Canson paper is not made by Ilford and I'm not aware of any reason to expect it to be discontinued.
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The Canson paper is not made by Ilford and I'm not aware of any reason to expect it to be discontinued.
The Canson Baryta Photographique paper has an extraordinarly similar ink receptor coating and anticurl coating on the verso to the Ifford Gold Fiber Silk product. AFAIK, the Swiss Ilford Imaging's specialty is advanced coatings technology not base sheet paper manufacturing, whereas Canson clearly has its own paper mills. All this suggests the possibility of Ilford supplying the coating know-how for both products but the base sheet coming from Canson in the Canson product but perhaps another paper source for the IGFS product. It will be interesting to see how both products fare in terms of availability as the Ilford Bankruptcy/reorganization process goes forward.
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Well, we have a different view of what passes for *personal*.
Apparently. I know there was no intention to make a personal attack on my part. If that's not good enough then there's nothing I can do for you.
I do think it's a bit 'comical' that you take him to task for not taking the discussion seriously enough then take me to task for also taking him to task. But then I do have a bit of a twisted sense of humour.
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Canson produce a variety of paper products whereas Ilford Imaging only manufacture inkjet papers as far as I know. I have a number of artist friends who use nothing but Canson paper for water color and drawing. IFGS found a sweet spot when it was first introduced several years ago. A lot of us enjoy(ed) printing on it and the quality control of manufacturing was quite good. I won't be surprised to see further problems with this aspect of the industry. IMO there are just too many paper manufacturers/choices out there. Darwinian evolution pretty much always works.
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Bob.....
Yes this is a personal attack..first of all you don't know me..second you have never been to my website..because if you did you would see I do sell this product..all I was saying is that you need to be prepared when there is no stock.. Never once did i mention anything about what I sell nor did I promote on this board. I try to help out.. I am under several NDA agreements but what I will tell you is read the posts from some of the paper worlds best people and figure it out..it's people like you who keep many away from ever posting valuable information that we all could use to our endless journey for the perfect inkjet print.
Ernst, Mark,Mark and of course Bill thanks for clarifying what I was trying to say..
Sharon the Canson product is not being discontinued. In the past there are multiple threads by Ernst and Mark
On who make what and how they are similar.
Cheers
Jim Doyle
Shades of Paper
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Pleeze gentle men, you're spellings and sintax is so underprofessional.
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I thought the papers are selected by the manufacturer; Canson, their own french Milled, or whatever and Ilford outsourcing a paper then regardless it's all sent to Germany to be coated. I wouldn't think ilford is doing both paper and coating, such that canson would be interrupted, and some wise guy with $$$ or Harman should just buy or create their own Gold Fibre silk. I'm more worried about the Rc's like my new Fav, the thicker smooth pearl.
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Bob.....
Yes this is a personal attack..first of all you don't know me..second you have never been to my website..because if you did you would see I do sell this product..all I was saying is that you need to be prepared when there is no stock.. Never once did i mention anything about what I sell nor did I promote on this board. I try to help out.. I am under several NDA agreements but what I will tell you is read the posts from some of the paper worlds best people and figure it out..it's people like you who keep many away from ever posting valuable information that we all could use to our endless journey for the perfect inkjet print.
Ernst, Mark,Mark and of course Bill thanks for clarifying what I was trying to say..
Sharon the Canson product is not being discontinued. In the past there are multiple threads by Ernst and Mark
On who make what and how they are similar.
Cheers
Jim Doyle
Shades of Paper
My suggestion is to attempt to express your thoughts better. Saying a discussion is 'comical' makes light of it. Then going on to type like a 12 year old doesn't do anything to change the initial impression. I actually did attempt to go to your site. I was on a mobile device. Your site appears to use flyout menus which don't work on mobile.
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IGFS has been one of my mainstay papers for years. How close is it to Canson Baryta Photographique? The specs seem nearly identical. I love the slightly "warm" look of IGFS.