Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: -Tom- on July 22, 2013, 06:04:22 pm
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So I was walking down the road few days ago and noticed a sign in front of a local tourist agency...some of you may remember the motif...
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7404/9341369253_8bc1a81c2a_o.jpg)
I made a thread on reddit about it (http://www.reddit.com/r/itookapicture/comments/1it9eq/itap_of_my_picture_being_used_by_some_random/) and it's quite busy at the moment...to my surprise, some of the people there are actually trying to make a case that those guys didn't jack my photo...I hope they're trolling me. If someone actually has one remote doubt about this, I'm giving up... :)
This is not the first time. Some months ago I found out (purely by accident) that official Facebook page of Croatian tourist board used it for it's cover image.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5534/9344597173_fb102efe70_o.jpg)
Nobody asked me for this, and they didn't even credit me so I can marvel at the newly acquired "views" or "likes" :D
And now I see people actually debating whether these guys used my image or not...I mean... http://i.imgur.com/NwY13Vu.gif
It's obvious they've done a horrid smudge job on the clouds. And I don't really care about their little ad in front of their store. What bothers me is how to protect my images other than slapping a giant 50% opacity watermark over it? I think nothing else works, especially outside the US...if I approached any of these people who used my image for compensation, I would probably be the best joke they've heard that day.
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...to my surprise, some of the people there are actually trying to make a case that those guys didn't jack my photo...I hope they're trolling me. If someone actually has one remote doubt about this, I'm giving up...
This attitude is, unfortunately, real. Many, especially younger generation, are so accustomed to getting things for free on the Internet, that they do not even think for a second about it. If it is there, it must be for everyone to use it as they please. They do not even understand, as you noticed, why you are complaining. That is the sole business model for Pinterest, Tumbler, and many others. Before them, there was even a site and magazine called, wait, Pilfered.
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This attitude is, unfortunately, real. Many, especially younger generation, are so accustomed to getting things for free on the Internet, that they do not even think for a second about it. If it is there, it must be for everyone to use it as they please. They do not even understand, as you noticed, why you are complaining. That is the sole business model for Pinterest, Tumbler, and many others. Before them, there was even a site and magazine called, wait, Pilfered.
I can only imagine the attention span of kids 10 years from now...make no mistake, from MySpace to Facebook to Twitter 160 characters to Vine 6 seconds video...best believe it'll compress more :D I find it fascinating really...
But what I want to know is...seeing how these guys actually took my pic and did some hack PS job on it...do I have any grounds for copyright claim? I'm asking it for future situations, not this one :)
If someone takes my photo and alters it, how can I prove it's my photo...since it's not the "same" photo anymore...
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Just for the sake of due diligence, where were you when you took the photo? Were you on a boat with no other boats in the vicinity? Were you on a deserted promenade?
Given that the photos show no foreground and the subject seems to be quite a distance away, and I'm struggling to find anything which would mark the exact moment the photos were taken. From the very little I know about the situation, it doesn't seem absolutely impossible that someone 50 meters from you also took a photo a little before or after.
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Seriously? :)
http://i.imgur.com/NwY13Vu.gif
I was on a pier, next to my tripod, alone, mid December, doing a long expo shot right as the sun went down...chances of somebody else catching the same angle and editing the photo the same way I did seems very interesting...maybe he even used GH2 like I did :) let's not discuss that :)
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Never show/upload your images at anything above 800px on the longest side, compress the Jpg down to get a file of no more than 150k or less and stick a small(ish) logo in one of the corners. Although in saying that, I do break my own rule sometimes ::)
The image can still be used of course, but it will not look so great at anything over two to three inches when printed and that is about as much as you can do I suppose, try to dissuade them from doing it rather than stop them, because you never will - although I have just thought of an idea that I am going to try, I will let you know if it works.
Last year I had all my low res images ripped straight off my website and used in an international (but members only) photography magazine, they even sent me a copy of it out of the blue and thought I should be happy about what they had done for me. All my images in their magazine looked flat, blocked up, lifeless and dark, as their print quality really sucked after stretching up my low res files to meet their page size, yet I was supposed to smile and be happy about it they thought, even though all they had done was to advertise to their entire membership how badly my stolen low res images could look in their magazine - so not only had they nicked all the files, they had then used them to create a really negative world wide advertising campaign for me.
Thanks guys!!!!
So why was I complaining about it they wondered, hadn't they done it for free..? ::)
Dave
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... If someone takes my photo and alters it, how can I prove it's my photo...since it's not the "same" photo anymore...
That part is easy. You have the original RAW (or jpeg), they do not. It is easy to prove (technically speaking) which part was altered. The real difficulty is the non-technical process of proving. Short of court, proving is pointless if they (thieves) are not willing to admit it.
P.S. Do not mind Isaac... he is the resident sophist and Hairsplitter-In-Chief ;)
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Never show/upload your images at anything above 800px on the longest side, compress the Jpg down to get a file of no more than 150k or less and stick a small(ish) logo in one of the corners. Although in saying that, I do break my own rule sometimes ::)
I thought about it...but then I lose it when I head over to In Focus Atlantic website and see those beautiful photojournalism pieces...all high-res and no watermark...I want to share the same way. But then again, when I see this, I get the urge to slap my website address all over it...
Did you take any actions against those guys, given you knew their address and all?
I was recently asked by some book publisher for rights to use my photo in some random schoolbook...they said up front they couldn't give me any "monetary compensation" for it...I was probably in too good of a mood today so I said "use it"...
Can't say I'll do that ever again. Just because it's a photo, and just because there's millions of them out there waiting to be jacked, doesn't mean it doesn't have value to its author. Neighboring media types such as audio or video get much more respect than photos...probably because photos are instantly accessible and abundant...
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Seriously? :)
It was easy to ask, and obviously easy for you to answer :-)
What did you do about the "official Facebook page of Croatian tourist board" ?
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What did you do about the "official Facebook page of Croatian tourist board" ?
Nothing...didn't know what to do, and to be honest, it was the first time I saw my photo being "publicly" displayed (nobody checks out my flickr :D ) so I was happy to see it made its way up there :) the second comment I got on my facebook when I shared the news was "sue them" lol
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Send them an invoice!
Alain Briot has this article http://www.luminous-landscape.com/columns/they_are_stealing_our_work.shtml on LuLa; and there are several other discussions that cover what is practical for you to do.
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Reddit is the biggest group of garbage minds on the internet, IMO. Filled with useless HS and young college aged dumbasses.
This happens to me ALL the time. Just last week again, from someone in my other industry, the largest Cigar Radio show host. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOeQh1elkek (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOeQh1elkek)
YouTube is quickly becoming like Reddit, populated by morons. Just look at some of the comments.
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If legal recourse isn't available, a few possibilities:
You can report an image on Facebook.
You can post on their wall, thanking them for selecting your work. Who knows, if you write to them and don't ask for money, it might open doors. You can even offer to give them more images from that visit or shoot, and so on.
You can use the snapshot to get future work (how many can claim their work was used by a national tourist board?). You could actually target smaller organizations in Croatia with your skills for paid work.
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Hey –Tom–,
I did a Google Image Search for your photo and got about 48 hits, results here (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&tbs=sbi:AMhZZiuV530Vzw9FwUbL5pSZdV7gYG_1w91eVAnmWqhH9LqY5fZdiamSQegpYcDcDqV76VZb7poIk1C0Tbfo-meAJWC4B9WXv3fUDyUGs9Xp8BJYFsPuRmztwqnrLAEyxwqt4yhWbMLKpnJGCruDZC39Z2dmwqJ4BngCfvyv0F-_1qhN9fDcRN_12s735Hchssb5MV65n47IjAJgpJaDr-aXSDaqFTQyxHXP5u4l_1LvpwvGK9n1Eh7ZamMtJYb3UMdqa-0OAvqkdBR2wwSSfHBR-ituzFtG0lqTx5rgM258IRQ8eKJ1v20qmRnu_170t3b027bTF6sZJnG5VioHc7eNw9JTZFRWShbr_1Fd0ytfwWUxl5nPysQMbbPRFOkS85u-jddGwaOaTckxsjUWM080vB7PjEyA4Du520hd0qE0UxW8oKSkBArbyxI7n6bm8nbVQHwRFAiQ41KYDsdROD-wlyua_1s5Yzzf2A66kJDnya9Tk6qMJvw0fStlIixcm6PXYqL1d68E7km_1gybFEJq0WLFQhWB0vD8QgjDjLPQ7Pvy8HKdN1qYuLEkjkbqEynrY_1Si22DAm6Llw_132XxjY4PPVpFFEV-TTn1VgXhBYbgvaCHoo44sV512DHN0AMjBZWMBFGK17o2UwpCrOPkV2V9pkuoRpFGZLQwPWJNfBpFgoEUT2ZLT9PHjZt_1C0FM2YEgIYzckVIT3LnnOwRVaQTP7C4CHvLIH7rY7ZydxxlN202v4pmAwH5Nt0k5HmiWZIyNZqKt1qNaK1soRHNe3k_1K7HWD_1dIcB5jvnM2yDLtl3qZ86BNIyFk0T9i36g_15JMWtBuIrCpx3-e2QY5774xEa_1uSZ-83mpNEMbYfy4wZg1MTIiGwqIpFkFo2MXe9IFHF_17XxaOkHb0o_1OvsxulyotLgDdb6wrnjD-JpEFeiGRKELW9MBp-gUPLK2kmYslsCvEzHBn1KSA8Fpasr2UTNri-mchsWyNsnROmAzHD0KpyMwuVqnbHI-NChEvLsElD1WoTYr6Q7Bzq3ZF12PlCktpfpbT-Ubm39WNQvb9F-sbVhStgEbuxwyrSLKr1ZX3Yw64y2LvSiTs2zJN5rmsuOQEw2SUuhswNLwIceWkDf8Fdl5iVcc_13wNIWA92B9jrwaXSr2e4CCnRfcuSY27Bqm7p_1v8FEQ0cOGEG19iT-7QsVIzE5wjLji4pdKxccG1dzhvvitForLJ7ddXm-SgqEDx8UYOFZF6HUiSQhmraw3vhjgNOnLQyM7o_1MFIxlLs-XXd5ccUqGVNP7ONG06ANS4JwPj2KB09_1-e-Ez1aA&filter=0&biw=1012&bih=1195).
Cheers,
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If legal recourse isn't available, a few possibilities:
You can report an image on Facebook.
You can post on their wall, thanking them for selecting your work. Who knows, if you write to them and don't ask for money, it might open doors. You can even offer to give them more images from that visit or shoot, and so on.
You can use the snapshot to get future work (how many can claim their work was used by a national tourist board?). You could actually target smaller organizations in Croatia with your skills for paid work.
I like Sareesh's suggestions. Sure, it's maddening to see you image swiped, but realistically speaking there's not much you can do. If you complain and threaten they will almost surely either ignore you or take the image down. Lemons, lemonade, and all that.
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how to protect my images other than slapping a giant 50% opacity watermark over it?
Take pictures that nobody is interested to use.
I know it sounds like a joke (and it partially is), but what it really means is that you only need the watermark on some of the pictures, not on all of them.
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Realistically, going to court is probably not worth the candle. I took a client a few steps along that route once; ended up losing a packet in actual money, the client as well as his ad. agency, and realising that the client's house-lawyers were better than the high street guy I'd gone to see, I had to back off and cut my losses.
For me, it was lack of legal knowledge: I hadn't reaised the difference between a principal contractor and his client... in short - I was abroad doing a shoot, the ad. agency had negotiated a week's work with me, but their client's foreign manager was at the shoot, and he asked and authorized that I remain working a second week, after checking back with HQ in Scotland. When I billed the agency for two weeks, they refused to pay more than the one week, saying I hadn't negotiated the extension with them, so I went after the client who had authorized the extra week, which I'd imagined he'd cleared with the ad. agency... young sucker comes to mind.
And then some people here have the nerve to look upon me as cynical! Me! With my smooth path through photographic life!
Rob C
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Take pictures that nobody is interested to use.
That's probably the only way to avoid the problem. It's totally "unfair", but as the music and movie industries have found, even with very deep pockets, it's impossible to stop people from copying digital work.
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One of the dreaded chores of making images and publishing. Constant vigilance or not, that is the question.
Peter
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That part is easy. You have the original RAW (or jpeg), they do not. It is easy to prove (technically speaking) which part was altered. The real difficulty is the non-technical process of proving. Short of court, proving is pointless if they (thieves) are not willing to admit it.
P.S. Do not mind Isaac... he is the resident sophist and Hairsplitter-In-Chief ;)
It ain't that easy, Slobodan. From the position of the clouds I'd guess that Tom's picture got ripped off, but with landscape, or in this instance, seascape, since the EXIF data won't be in the ripped-off copies it's going to be hard to make a case. I'd be willing to bet hundreds of thousands of similar pictures of this scene exist. This one seems a particularly good one, which would account for the rip-off. I see the same thing here at home when I'm walking in Garden of the Gods where tourists shoot the same landscape pictures over and over. There must be at least a couple million pictures of Balanced Rock are out there somewhere.
The other problem is that unless Tom registered his copyright it's up to him to take the case to court -- rip-off by rip-off. That's a big time financial loser.
Putting a copyright notice on a picture isn't going to cut it. If the copyright is small enough to leave the picture unblemished it's easy to remove. If the copyright is larger the picture suffers and there's no point posting it.
In the end, if you're going to post pictures on the web you simply have to face the fact that if they're good they're going to be ripped-off. Since I don't depend on photography for any part of my income I give away plenty of pictures. I never ask for monetary compensation, but I do demand attribution. Usually I get it. If you're trying to make money from photography, learn to do weddings (gasp) and formal portraits (ugh).
Oh, and roger on Isaac.
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...although I have just thought of an idea that I am going to try, I will let you know if it works.
Well here is my idea, let me know what you think.
Have a look at what I have done to embed a watermark into the image below, although you will probably need to download the image onto your hard drive and zoom in to about 300 or 400 percent to see the full effect (or hold down ctrl and scroll with your mouse wheel to zoom when looking at the image on PC), as it is not really noticeable at normal screen viewing size, which is the whole idea, but should still be enough to deter any use of your images without your permission.
I have done this on a really colourful image, to see if it will work with any image and any colour or tone and is the reason why I picked 50% grey as the mid tone balance point colour for the embedded text within the image.
If you want to try this for yourself on one of your own images, then I have explained what I did in a step by step guide below - have fun!!
ONLY DO THIS TO A COPY OF YOUR ORIGINAL IMAGE!!!!
Embedding a Copyright watermark throughout your image,
1 - Create a new transparent image in Photoshop something like L=50mm x H=20mm - experiment with this to find the copyright text size that works for you and your images.
2 - Put your Copyright text into it.
3 - Set the text colour to 50% grey (R:128, G:128, B:128)
4 - Crop the image close to the text.
5 - Go to Edit and convert to pattern.
6 - Close the image and don't save.
7 - Now open the image you wish to copyright in Photoshop.
8 - Create a duplicate layer (Ctrl+j).
9 - Open your blending palette and select 'Pattern Overlay’ and choose your new Copyright pattern.
10 - Set the blend mode to soft light and 10% opacity - again experiment as to what you want to appear in your images, but 10% seems to work quite well as a staring point.
You should now have a barely noticeable copyright text embedded throughout the image, you can tweak what you can see by reducing the layer opacity if you wish.
Flatten the image and resize down to around 800/900px on the longest side and then save as a JPG with a compression ratio of no more than 10.
You can now upload your image to any site anywhere, knowing it can never be copied and successfully used without your permission ;D
Once the pattern is created and saved, you could easily put all these steps into an action called 'Copyright' and then run it on any image you intended to upload to the net but wish to protect.
Other ideas - before you flatten the two layers, you could use a graduated mask to blend in the copyrighted layer to the background layer, to only appear in parts of the image you want it to, such as a sort of masked vignette surrounding the most interesting part of the image which you may wish to show, or perhaps only over the main item which you wish to protect, or in a band across parts of the image.
The whole idea is that you can have as much or as little embedded copyright info on your image as you see fit, yet the view of the image on screen is not noticeably affected unless it is printed or upsized and used elsewhere, then it would be fully noticeable and deter who ever is trying to use it without your permission.
Have fun and let me know what you think to the idea ;)
Dave
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It's up to Tom to take action whether copyright has been registered or not. Courts in the U.S have moved to a model that copyright has to be registered even to bring an action in court. It used to be that copyright had to be registered to seek anything more than actual damages, but courts and judges seem to like to write law. Other countries don't have the same registration requirement.
As far as whether your image was ripped off by the local tourist office, that's going to be for you to determine. If you feel it is yours, send them an invoice, as another noted. Same with the national tourist board. You should most certainly not have allowed the textbook producer to use images free of charge. Every time someone knowingly gives images away for free it cheapens the trade and helps to drive prices down. Charitable donations aside, images shouldn't be given away.
I've had images used by a newspaper without permission and have had video clips used by the Canadian Tourism Commission (a federal crown entity), a tourism company promoting travel to Canada and by a large real-estate brokerage with offices internationally. There is no limit to who will try to use something for free if they think they can get away with it. I was successful with the newspaper in getting paid. In the other cases I had to make due with getting the videos taken down. I file, on average, about half a dozen DMCA takedown requests per week. That number would be higher if the owners of some of the sites could be found. And that doesn't count illegal uploads of my book on various torrent sites. It is a matter of continual vigilance.
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Can I just point out that nobody (so far as I know) has ever considered one of my photos worth using :(
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... Courts in the U.S have moved to a model that copyright has to be registered even to bring an action in court. It used to be that copyright had to be registered to seek anything more than actual damages, but courts and judges seem to like to write law...
Any examples?
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Can I just point out that nobody (so far as I know) has ever considered one of my photos worth using :(
Hollywood wannabe starlets resort, in cases like this, to a rent-a-paparazzi model, where they pay paparazzi to follow them as if they are real celebrity. You can hire a couple of kids to steal your photos for their blogs, and then come back here to complain/brag about it. ;D
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Any examples?
http://www.photoattorney.com/2009/03/supreme-court-to-consider-copyright.html
http://www.intellectlawgroup.com/articles/poormans.html
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/faqs/registration-and-enforcement/
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Can I just point out that nobody (so far as I know) has ever considered one of my photos worth using :(
I've just stolen a couple of your images, CB, for display on the LibDems web site... ;)