Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Computers & Peripherals => Topic started by: mbalensiefer on January 06, 2012, 03:38:13 pm
-
...absolutely suck.
???
I believe no color purist would ever use one; but they seem to be the default screen for all monitors today.
Does anyone know of a service that can "matte" a glossy screen?
~Michael
-
I have both. While I prefer matte for its flexibility of positioning, I am quite happy with my iMac 21.5 screen as I have placed it perpendicular to my one window, and keep the door behind me closed.
Matte makes more sense for me in portables on location, where ambient lighting cannot be easily controlled.
-
...absolutely suck.
???
I believe no color purist would ever use one; but they seem to be the default screen for all monitors today.
Does anyone know of a service that can "matte" a glossy screen?
~Michael
a. At least not anyone serious..
b. Default for the consumer grade monitors yes. I don't know of any professional imaging monitor with a glossy screen. What models are you looking at?
c. There are several 'films' you can put over a gloss screen to make it function a like matte. Of course these aren't as good as matte, but they are an option. You can google them easily enough.
-
Along these same lines, are there any companies out there (besides Apple) who make laptops with matte screens? Sure it is easy enough to find a high end monitor with matte, but a laptop seems impossible.
-
Along these same lines, are there any companies out there (besides Apple) who make laptops with matte screens? Sure it is easy enough to find a high end monitor with matte, but a laptop seems impossible.
Lenovo and Dell's Precision Mobile Workstations and I'm sure there are some others. These are normally in their higher end models though, you won't find a matte screen on a entry level for sure.
-
Lenovo and Dell's Precision Mobile Workstations and I'm sure there are some others. These are normally in their higher end models though, you won't find a matte screen on a entry level for sure.
My Thinkpad W520 has a matte screen, but I think it was an extra-cost option
-
In the midst of incertainty about the future of the Macpro line, the current impossibility to order an iMac with a Matte screen makes it doubtful whether it makes sense for photographers and visual artists to stay on Mac much longer.
This might be unfounded, but it is sad we even have to worry about this. This concern itself alone hurts the Mac experience of tens of thousands of artists.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
Along these same lines, are there any companies out there (besides Apple) who make laptops with matte screens? Sure it is easy enough to find a high end monitor with matte, but a laptop seems impossible.
MacBook Pro 15" and 17" can be ordered with matte screens.
-
I have both. An iMac at home for my printing workstation, and an NEC display at the studio. I guess I'm not a very serious color purist photographer, 'cause I don't really see much of a difference, but my photos and prints turn out okay and I've somehow managed to make a living doing this for twenty five years.
-
I have both. An iMac at home for my printing workstation, and an NEC display at the studio. I guess I'm not a very serious color purist photographer, 'cause I don't really see much of a difference, but my photos and prints turn out okay and I've somehow managed to make a living doing this for twenty five years.
Storms in teacups/looking for novelty/too much free cash? Pick one. ;D
-
Storms in teacups/looking for novelty/too much free cash? Pick one. ;D
I don't think so. Manufacturers are starting to lean back towards matte screens in any event and I hope they keep leaning. Many of the review sites are getting over the novelty of glossy high contrast screens and praising matte screens for their accuracy and easy of use which is always a good sign.
My guess, and my guesses are occasionally wrong :), is it's all about money. Glossy screens at one point were probably cheaper to produce than matte screens, so marketing drummed up their great points and convinced the public they needed them.. and maybe now they've found a way to manufacture lesser expensive matte screens so marketing is busy working up the sales pitch. It's always great for manufacturers to sell a cheaper product for more money.
-
My guess, and my guesses are occasionally wrong :), is it's all about money. Glossy screens at one point were probably cheaper to produce than matte screens, so marketing drummed up their great points and convinced the public they needed them.. and maybe now they've found a way to manufacture lesser expensive matte screens so marketing is busy working up the sales pitch. It's always great for manufacturers to sell a cheaper product for more money.
I believe that the main reason is marketing, concretely speaking 2 decisions from Steve jobs:
1. The decision to open Apple stores,
2. The decision to adopt consumer marketing concepts and tactics, starting with the concept of First Moment of Truth, which states that most consumeristic purchase is emotional and decided with the first 10 seconds you physically enter in contact with a product.
Glossy screens are simply a lot more sexy for consumers because they feel sharper. Apple has take the whole market in that direction, the other sheeps just followed their lead.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
I don't think so. Manufacturers are starting to lean back towards matte screens in any event and I hope they keep leaning. Many of the review sites are getting over the novelty of glossy high contrast screens and praising matte screens for their accuracy and easy of use which is always a good sign.
Every *civilian* I have spoken to on this topic prefers glossy, or hadn’t thought about it at all; they can’t see what the kerfuffle is about, and they are in the majority, compared to users working with images for a living, or as a serious hobby.
My guess, and my guesses are occasionally wrong :), is it's all about money. Glossy screens at one point were probably cheaper to produce than matte screens, so marketing drummed up their great points and convinced the public they needed them.. and maybe now they've found a way to manufacture lesser expensive matte screens so marketing is busy working up the sales pitch. It's always great for manufacturers to sell a cheaper product for more money.
I have no knowledge of cost vs surface treatment on panels; somebody out there must have heard if one is cheaper than the other. I believe gloss screens were first marketed as a product differentiator—yay! look at the contrast and blacker blacks! Reflections and reduced view angles were not mentioned.
Perhaps a factor is inventory and BTO control; Apple famously has a very tight supply chain, and the product line is kept very simple as an essential part of marketing (helps with stock control too). While MBP 15s and 17s can have BTO matte screens, the smaller, more portable laptops miss out (such as my MBP13); this is frustrating on location, but I have no problem in my home office.
An anecdote which inclines me to the view about viewing angles expressed above: I tested my ageing but still going strong MBP15 1.83CD (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/stats/macbook_pro_1.83.html) (early 2006) against my mid-2010 MBP13—viewing angles on the matte screen were much much better than on the 13" gloss screen.
-
Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits/2006/05/4004.ars) in 2006:
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/424/latecomer.png)
Quote from the story:
In recent years, PC laptops have started sprouting LCD screens with shiny surfaces. Glossy, you might say. It started with just a few models. Today, you'll be hard-pressed to find any PC laptops with non-glossy screens at your local Best Buy or Circuit City.
Meanwhile, Apple's laptops have stuck with their traditional matte-finish screens. That's changed with the introduction of the MacBook and its glossy display. The MacBook Pro now has a glossy display option as well.
Like everything from Siracusa, reasoned and extensive.
-
Every *civilian* I have spoken to on this topic prefers glossy, or hadn’t thought about it at all; they can’t see what the kerfuffle is about, and they are in the majority, compared to users working with images for a living, or as a serious hobby.
Gamers and consumers of porn have undue influence over our computing and viewing pleasures. At any level other than the full stop professional imaging market we're just along for the ride accepting table scraps when they care to offer them. Inexpensive HD video from our still cameras, you know where that demand came from..
I've been lucky, other than one 12 inch laptop I bought specifically because it was glossy (to be used in the sun) I've managed to have a matte screen on all my laptops over the years and that would be a bunch of them. But it's cost me big. This last year we've seen more and more of them so here's hoping they make a come back.
Now.. if we can only go back to the 4:3 imaging screens...
-
Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits/2006/05/4004.ars) in 2006:
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/424/latecomer.png)
I believe that there is one more important reason that is not listed: they sell more because they are better looking at first sight.
Regards,
Bernard
-
I believe that there is one more important reason that is not listed: they sell more because they are better looking at first sight.
Regards,
Bernard
Shiny screens do have deeper blacks, which means more contrast, all other things being equal. I find most civilians (I like the word!) set their computers and TVs to higher contrast and saturation than I would.
-
Gamers and consumers of porn have undue influence over our computing and viewing pleasures. At any level other than the full stop professional imaging market we're just along for the ride accepting table scraps when they care to offer them. Inexpensive HD video from our still cameras, you know where that demand came from..
Mhh... I'm not so sure. Might be an urban myth. If you look at laptops for example, only a small fraction of them is specifically targeted at gamers and due to their lacking graphic cards and whatnots are only of limited use for an avid gamer. I see the market of hobby photo- and videographers to be large enough to be interesting for manufactures. Companies like Eizo, HP, Dell and some others have quite a few displays which are neither targeted at professional photographers/DTP guys nor at semipro gamers/wankers.
I think Bernard is correct with the "first moment of truth". People who don't "produce" graphical content on their computer buy whatever looks good. Or not even that. My dad got his last display from a discount store, because it was cheap and larger than his old one. Simple as that :-\
-
So has anybody here purchased a matte screen to place atop their glossy?
Also--one time in High School I had a Shop class. We got to work with our hands. Acid etching I know on glass can be done on plastic as well.
Herein, tape could be placed around the edges to keep them still-glossy; and the screen itself be matted up with a 5-second etch. Simple!
Michael
-
So has anybody here purchased a matte screen to place atop their glossy?
Also--one time in High School I had a Shop class. We got to work with our hands. Acid etching I know on glass can be done on plastic as well.
Herein, tape could be placed around the edges to keep them still-glossy; and the screen itself be matted up with a 5-second etch. Simple!
Michael,
Will you try on your 27 inch iMac and let us know about the result? ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
-
Michael,
Will you try on your 27 inch iMac and let us know about the result? ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
Maybe very fine sandpaper? 8)
-
When was the last time that you saw a print mounted under matte glass?
Cheers,
-
I'll do it!
I just ordered some Matte HD anti-glare screen from Photodon.com. I'll let you know how it turns out.
-
When was the last time that you saw a print mounted under matte glass?
I am not sure when was the last time I mounted a print behind glass at all, but on your point, these are 2 different things in my view:
1. You don't spend much time in front of a print, you spend hours in front of a screen,
2. Your computer time is typically related to a well defined deliverable which introduces the concept of productivity and concentration or lack of distraction,
3. In the lifetime of a print, it will most often be seen casually at an angle. Just think how much time you spend looking right at prints on your wall. Even the one I love I would say no more than a few minutes a month, but I look at them as I pass by,
4. The high end frames use glass with very low reflexions, much lower than your typical laptop screen.
Besides, a friend of mine claims that another goal of the reflective screen is to flatter our inflated egos and narcicism by enabling us to look at ourselves... he might in fact be right.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
I have the current 27" iMac as well as legacy Mac pros with NEC displays that are essentially matte, at least a lot less reflective than the iMac. I work in a room where I have controlled the lighting so that iMac display shows so little reflection I don't ever think about it. Working side by side with the NECs color is effectively seamless from display to display. The subtly between them I'm familiar with and I can print from either and get the same results.
I feel it makes sense to change the environment and stop waiting for the industry to change the tools they're currently offering us.
-
I placed a matte screen cover on my smaller laptop from Photodon.com to test it. So far I'd say it's an improvement; and definitely worth the 21 dollars it cost to buy it.
I just purchased one from Viewguard.com to see what vendor product my third purchase (which will cover my last laptop screen) warrants. The total price was 30.00.
-
I'll do it!
I just ordered some Matte HD anti-glare screen from Photodon.com. I'll let you know how it turns out.
10 days; anything happening? :D
-
10 days; anything happening? :D
Maybe he forgot to take the backing off and he can't see the screen anymore. As he waits patiently for it to boot..
-
...it's pretty nice, and worth the price. Before I put up pics or perform additional postings, I am awaiting the second cover from the competing company. :)
~Michael
-
As he waits patiently for it to boot..
Troll Alert! ::)
-
Troll Alert! ::)
I didn't check, is it an Apple? You guys are so sensitive.. :-\
-
hehe steve: i almost missed that in the glare of a bright reflection on my macbook pro ;) I did try their antiglare on an ipad (http://www.photodon.com/c/apple-tablet-screen-protectors.html), pretty forgettable. my next macbook will be a 15" with the matte option.....
-
You were saying about gamers and glossy screens. Dumbest idea in the whole world. Picked up an Asus with an i5 and GT555M, glossy screen, horrendous gaming result. I think the main reason why they put glossy screens is because people are idiots. To sum up: "Oh! Shiny!".
But, on a side note, I wouldn't acid etch my screen. So, how is that going? Have you tried it yet?
-
Because of the thick cover glass on almost any current glossy Mac and the induced distance from the LCD panel, "matting" the surface of the cover glass has the side effect of blurring the image of the panel. If you remove the magnetically fixed cover glass from an iMac, you will find that the LCD panel itself has a matte surface.
One exception is the Macbook Air, whose panel surface seems natively glossy (or at most covered with a very thin glass) with a quite effective simple anti-reflective coating.
The (probably too expensive) solution would be completely coating the cover glass with at least a single or yet better multiple lambda/4-layers (each cancelling the reflection of a specific wavelength) like it is done with most optical glass (and at least partly in the Macbook Air).
-
One exception is the Macbook Air, whose panel surface seems natively glossy (or at most covered with a very thin glass) with a quite effective simple anti-reflective coating.
I’ve read that the Air screens are less glossy, which may be a reasonable compromise. How thick is the cover glass on an iMac?