Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Digital Cameras & Shooting Techniques => Topic started by: Jules on January 05, 2012, 05:28:39 pm
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For much of last year, Michael had been using his GH2, mostly with the 14-140 lens. He seemed to enjoy it. Lately he has been testing the NEX7, most recently with the 18-200 lens. Likewise, he seems to enjoy it. My question, preferably to Michael, is: in a nutshell, which kit did you prefer?
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That's like asking a honey bee from what flower they like the nectar from...
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I prefer Bouganville at the moment. ;)
Seriously though, what people forget is that I'm not simply flitting from flower to flower (err... camera), though it's lots of fun. This is what I do for a living. I try new products and write reviews of them. I don't just test and review, I actually do my work with whatever is the latest, and greatest.
This site wouldn't be of much interest if I simply used last year's camera, now would it?
Michael
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sorry Michael, but that was a rather disappointing response
is "this years camera" always better than last year's? as per Pop Photo (i don't have to even read it anymore to know that)
are the cameras and lenses both "good enough" ? you've shot both with the 10x zooms - is there a difference?
i've come to expect a pretty high standard of LL in contrast to the many reviews that "speak no evil" and avoid direct comparisons
having wasted many hours evaluating a Fuji X10 which i found pretty close to crap IQ (even for point and shoot), i'm a little short in patience of reviewers pulling punches to preserve relationships with camera manufacturers
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...i'm a little short in patience of reviewers pulling punches to preserve relationships with camera manufacturers
Wow bud, you sure you wanna say that? Really? If you wanna go down that road I think you'll end up pickled in a jar. Mike shoots what he wants to shoot. He writes about it in the manner he feels like-regardless of the reaction of the manufacturer. If you are so friggin' stupid that you think Mike is in the LEAST bit swayed by "relationships with camera manufacturers" then you have some education coming right at ya. Sorry "stever" you are way off base doooode. Go stand in a corner in time out. When you've learned your lesson, come back and apologize...
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sorry Schewe, no apologies
i have enormous respect for both you and Michael but in the context of my personal experience compared with various "reviews" by others, i was enormously disappointed with Michael's flip reply to a very simple, direct question which would probably be of interest to many on this board, myself included
for a lot of people making purchase decisions, the strengths and weaknesses of micro 4-3 vs NEX APSC systems are important. we don't all have the financial ability to switch systems every year
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Stever,
Schewe, as always, is brutaly direct. I like it because it's transparent. You know what he thinks, no diplomacy, no politically correct but just the truth of his thoughts. We need more of that indeed into this flabby soup customs we are seeing nowdays.
But IMO, it's important to take distance and observing one self. Michael is not going to resolve our part of responsability, wich is testing the gear in real world, having them in hand. What works for him does not necesarly work for you, or me. His indications are relevant, indicative but then you can't rely on anybody when it comes to choose equipment. This site is no exception.
Unless you're living in the Sahara or Gobi desert, there is for sure a good photo dealer at less than 50 miles from home.
A lot of questions can actually being answered just using common sense. The Nex 7 is another generation above the GH2. As tech now evolves fast as you know, this means obviously that the camera belongs to the newest generation and therefore that has consequences in term of performance. (same would be the GH1 and GH2 step).
Does it mean that the GH2 is obsolete? it depends. My aim is motion, in that terrain , the GH2 for me is still a better tool mainly because of the hack and body external functions access. Now, if stills are a concern, the Nex is obviously a more powerfull camera. Then, you have to consider the sensor's size, wich kind of lenses you might want to put etc...For me for example, the smaller sensor size is better because of the type of lenses and workflow I'm using (cine lenses and M39 monut). all those parameters can be deducted by yourself without the help of Michael or any other reviewer.
You can find on internet direct 100% comparaisons of files if that's your concern: http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM (select on one side Sony Nex 7 and on the other GH2 and choose the same image settings)
It's clear that the Nex 7 performs better in higher isos, but we knew that. It's totally logical.
Now...if you look carefully at the files at based isos and you are used to post-prod, I'd choose the Panasonic for heavy retouching but the Nex for more "right-out-the-box" output. It depends on a lot of factors.
What will give you MR is a report of how things are working in a daily use. He's always been doing this and this is what differs from other sites. That's a great source of info, but that's also where the limit is: internet won't give us more than we can legitimally ask for. I don't think by the way that MR has ever wanted to compare or do a versus. He moves on with the ultimate gear of this industry. He owned (or still owns a GH2, now owns a Nex, that's a pretty good and enough indication that both cameras are great cameras. But what's the life of a digital gear nowdays? 3 - 4 years max. The Gh2 already has some years, the Nex is a newcomer. Tomorrow MR will own different cameras.
So it seems that many users feel unhappy when their answers are not answered the way they expected, and from there start to questionned if there is not a commercial interest here or there. In this site, there are MF vendors, Phase, Leaf, Hasselblad. Nobody will listen to them just like that.
It's up to each one's responsability to decide ultimatly with the camera in hand. We can't ask others to think for us but just receive impressions, (relative) informations is more than enough.
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Wow bud, you sure you wanna say that? Really? If you wanna go down that road I think you'll end up pickled in a jar. Mike shoots what he wants to shoot. He writes about it in the manner he feels like-regardless of the reaction of the manufacturer. If you are so friggin' stupid that you think Mike is in the LEAST bit swayed by "relationships with camera manufacturers" then you have some education coming right at ya. Sorry "stever" you are way off base doooode. Go stand in a corner in time out. When you've learned your lesson, come back and apologize...
I didn't read it like that - I read that he was tired of (other) bad reviewers, and hence was short of patience with Michael's not-too-illuminating response. On the C2PS videos you come across as a nice and funny guy - I don't know why you have to be so confrontational on this forum.
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People are always looking for absolutes. They won't find them from me. Life is a series of shades of gray, and that's how I report things (though usually using colour).
Take the NEX7. It may well the the most fascinating and enjoyable new camera of the past couple of years. It's easy to use, light weight, has great image quality, and can take just about every lens. The EVF is simple awesome, and I can put in it a coat pocket.
But it drive me nuts because it doesn't have a single user customizable memory function. I curse it a dozen times a day as I switch back and forth between shooting indoors, outdoors, action, portraits, video and stills. Combine the lack of C functions and a menu system from hell, and for me at least, it's a real pain in the ass.
But, I love it, and though I have a Leica 9, Sony 5n, a Fuji X100, a Panasonic GH2, Pany AF100, and a Phase One /Alpa IQ180 system all sitting on my desk here in San Miguel, the NEX-7 is the one that walks out the door 8 times out of 10.
If I want to shoot video exclusively though, I'll take the GH2. It's a much better video camera than the GH2, and it also has far superior user customizability as a stlls camera. Unfortunately it doesn't produce as good stills as the NEX-7. And if I want to shoot "serious" video, I'll use the Panasonic AF100, which is a far better "real" video camera.
There is a brand new camera system to be announced next week. I expect to get it for review not long afterward. It will likely be my camera of choice for a few weeks, if not longer. I'll tell you all about it here.
Will it be better than the GH2, or the NEX-7? Maybe, in some ways. Well it lack certain valuable features? Likely. In fact I already now of two biggies. Will this make it a winner or a loser. Probably neither. Just a real world product that some people will value and some won't.
All I do is shoot what I like with what I like and tell you as honestly as I can what works and what doesn't. You the reader can extract from that what you will.
Michael
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If I want to shoot video exclusively though, I'll take the GH2. It's a much better video camera than the GH2, and it also has far superior user customizability as a stlls camera.
?
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Thank you, Michael. That more than answers my question: which one are you most likely to grab on your way out the door.
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Can we still expect a video-oriented review of the NEX 7 ?
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Thanks very much for you reply Michael. I have one question about the NEX7 that i haven't found a definitive answer too anywhere, unless I just missed it. It's my understanding that I would NOT be able to use auto aperture priority exposure with my Leica M lenses...correct? I would have to use completely manual exposure, setting the shutter speeds myself on the nex7. Thanks, Eleanor
People are always looking for absolutes. They won't find them from me. Life is a series of shades of gray, and that's how I report things (though usually using colour).
Take the NEX7. It may well the the most fascinating and enjoyable new camera of the past couple of years. It's easy to use, light weight, has great image quality, and can take just about every lens. The EVF is simple awesome, and I can put in it a coat pocket.
But it drive me nuts because it doesn't have a single user customizable memory function. I curse it a dozen times a day as I switch back and forth between shooting indoors, outdoors, action, portraits, video and stills. Combine the lack of C functions and a menu system from hell, and for me at least, it's a real pain in the ass.
But, I love it, and though I have a Leica 9, Sony 5n, a Fuji X100, a Panasonic GH2, Pany AF100, and a Phase One /Alpa IQ180 system all sitting on my desk here in San Miguel, the NEX-7 is the one that walks out the door 8 times out of 10.
If I want to shoot video exclusively though, I'll take the GH2. It's a much better video camera than the GH2, and it also has far superior user customizability as a stlls camera. Unfortunately it doesn't produce as good stills as the NEX-7. And if I want to shoot "serious" video, I'll use the Panasonic AF100, which is a far better "real" video camera.
There is a brand new camera system to be announced next week. I expect to get it for review not long afterward. It will likely be my camera of choice for a few weeks, if not longer. I'll tell you all about it here.
Will it be better than the GH2, or the NEX-7? Maybe, in some ways. Well it lack certain valuable features? Likely. In fact I already now of two biggies. Will this make it a winner or a loser. Probably neither. Just a real world product that some people will value and some won't.
All I do is shoot what I like with what I like and tell you as honestly as I can what works and what doesn't. You the reader can extract from that what you will.
Michael
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I'm working on a video review, but there's no ETA yet.
Michael
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The NEX-7 can shoot in aperture priority mode with Leica M lenses. Set the aperture and the camera will set the shutter speed.
Michael
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This does make the NEX7 very attractive indeed! thanks, Eleanor
The NEX-7 can shoot in aperture priority mode with Leica M lenses. Set the aperture and the camera will set the shutter speed.
Michael
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thanks for the information Michael, sorry that i was a little out of patience last night - as was Schewe
the comparative evaluation of someone with well-known credentials is worth a lot
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Eleanor, you can also leave the NEX systems in "program mode" (i.e., P mode) and auto-exposure works when using manual lenses. The dials can then be used to perform exposure compensation. Very handy.
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Thanks for the tip Eric. Guess I got confused because I checked the Voiglander adapter info and it says "no electronic communication of lens with the camera...manual exposure only". However, I just checked and found some adaptors that will allow me to do the programed exposures you mentioned! ...Eleanor
Eleanor, you can also leave the NEX systems in "program mode" (i.e., P mode) and auto-exposure works when using manual lenses. The dials can then be used to perform exposure compensation. Very handy.
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Eleanor,
The P mode should work with any adaptor, without any communication with the body and as madmanchan said, using the dial to compensate.
Regards.
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People are always looking for absolutes. They won't find them from me. Life is a series of shades of gray, and that's how I report things (though usually using colour).
Take the NEX7. It may well the the most fascinating and enjoyable new camera of the past couple of years. It's easy to use, light weight, has great image quality, and can take just about every lens. The EVF is simple awesome, and I can put in it a coat pocket.
But it drive me nuts because it doesn't have a single user customizable memory function. I curse it a dozen times a day as I switch back and forth between shooting indoors, outdoors, action, portraits, video and stills. Combine the lack of C functions and a menu system from hell, and for me at least, it's a real pain in the ass.
But, I love it, and though I have a Leica 9, Sony 5n, a Fuji X100, a Panasonic GH2, Pany AF100, and a Phase One /Alpa IQ180 system all sitting on my desk here in San Miguel, the NEX-7 is the one that walks out the door 8 times out of 10.
If I want to shoot video exclusively though, I'll take the GH2. It's a much better video camera than the GH2, and it also has far superior user customizability as a stlls camera. Unfortunately it doesn't produce as good stills as the NEX-7. And if I want to shoot "serious" video, I'll use the Panasonic AF100, which is a far better "real" video camera.
There is a brand new camera system to be announced next week. I expect to get it for review not long afterward. It will likely be my camera of choice for a few weeks, if not longer. I'll tell you all about it here.
Will it be better than the GH2, or the NEX-7? Maybe, in some ways. Well it lack certain valuable features? Likely. In fact I already now of two biggies. Will this make it a winner or a loser. Probably neither. Just a real world product that some people will value and some won't.
All I do is shoot what I like with what I like and tell you as honestly as I can what works and what doesn't. You the reader can extract from that what you will.
Michael
Well said. We all have a responsibility to do our "due diligence" regarding which camera is best suited for our needs.
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If I may put my 2 cent, or how do you say this in proper English?, tot his thread.
Let me explain my situation.
I own a D5 with quite some good glass (wide angle to 400 mm ). Everything in the bag , including cables, filters, flash, cleaner stuff and all the gear a photographer needs, is about 12 Kilo! We all know about airplane regulations for hand baggage!
That is one. The other is that I feel let down by Canon because I need to upgrade (better AF, cleaner images, speed etc.) and apart from the 5D II, whose autofocus is not up to the standard including speed and HDR possibilities, it seems that only in the far future there is a possibility for a 5DMK 3! Or something alike.
With MR’s reviews I get an insight for what is new and innovative on the market and yes I read a year ago his “ review” of the GH2 and now the Nex-7. And yes I am sick and tiered of carrying 12 kilo, half in my photo vest and the other half in the bag. So what to do is my question to my self. Write off my investment in Canon and go for something state-of-the-art. Difficult, because there will be a huge price tag. I am also not sure if the weight, going Nex-70, will be less because of the glass.
Yesterday I was reading a Dutch photo magazine ( Foto Magazin) in which they stated that in the next 7 months there will be a GH3 and Sony will bring new E glass, which will be much better.
So I am totally confused and run in circles. I also realize that yes there will always be some thing better in the future and if you wait you never take a picture!
So I want to make the decision before mid this year before I go to a once in a life time adventure, Antarctica, at the end off the year. I am 71 and have not much time left!
Any hints?
Henk
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Henk, being 71 also I've got this to say. We don't have too many years left! Enjoy them. I am not rich but well enough off now in retirement that I can afford most of what I want. So my motto is if I want it I get it. I have a GH2 and most of the dedicated lenses plus a ton of legacy glass to play with. Having a ball. At this age the size and weight becomes a big factor as we don't have the strength and stamina of the young boys. It's nice going out with a manageable sized kit that covers everything from 18mm to 600mm (35 equiv) that give decent quality images.
Larry
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i shot Pentax film cameras for many years and have never been happy with the weight and bulk of Canon bodies and lenses - but have generally found the results to be worth the trouble. about 80% of my images are travel and of those 80% are with 5D2 - 7D for backup and action. even though a small percentage of what i shoot justifies large prints, i can't predict when these opportunities will occur - and won't give up full frame (and will probably have a 5D3 sooner or later). if i'm shooting action, the available mirrorless cameras do not have the autofocus or frame rate to do the job even though i'm convinced (after a brief Panny G3 test) that the opinion of Michael and others that the Panny GH2, G3, and GX1; and Sony NEX 5N and 7 have IQ comparable to the best APSC DSLRs - so the 7D stays as well.
however, i really want a camera when i can't or don't want to take the DSLR, that can produce printable images of to 13x19 under most conditions including reasonably low light. so i've got a GX1 with pancake zoom on order. if this works, i may add a couple lenses so it can replace the 7D as backup/ second camera when appropriate. i chose Panasonic because the lenses as well as the bodies are compact and light and already cover a wide range of situations (unlike Sony) and cameras do not appear to have some of the shortcomings of Sony such as limited bracketing. i expect a lot of development over the next 3 years and think it's still early for me to make a heavy investment.
the mirroless cameras are now a reasonable alternative for many applications, but have quite some way to go before replacing SLRs in many others
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Hi,
Enjoy retirement, and enjoy your lenses, and please share your experience like you did with the article on using SNS!
Best regards
Erik
Henk, being 71 also I've got this to say. We don't have too many years left! Enjoy them. I am not rich but well enough off now in retirement that I can afford most of what I want. So my motto is if I want it I get it. I have a GH2 and most of the dedicated lenses plus a ton of legacy glass to play with. Having a ball. At this age the size and weight becomes a big factor as we don't have the strength and stamina of the young boys. It's nice going out with a manageable sized kit that covers everything from 18mm to 600mm (35 equiv) that give decent quality images.
Larry
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Michael,
Did you try the NEX 7 with M lenses?
Anybody else experience (good or bad)?
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DigiLloyd has extensively tested the Nex-7 with Leica lenses. His web site is a subscription site but the information and commentary is first class.
http://www.diglloyd.com/index-dap.html