Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Kanvas Keepsakes on November 07, 2011, 10:08:12 pm
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Hey guys. I decided to go to my local cabinet material shop and was able to find all the material I needed to make my own bars. I bought I believe like a 1"x1"x16ft long pine sticks plus the molding that makes that half circle bend for the canvas to wrap around. I'm going to cut the sticks at 45degree angles and stick together with wood glue and staples. Only problem is . . . these bars will not have that little gap between sides to hammer that spacer in to tighten the canvas. I wasn't able to get the perfect tightness because I'm stretching by hand until I hammered in those spacers. Wow what a difference those make. Canvas got nice and tight. I'm just wondering what I could do with my own bars to help with the tightening process? If I had a stretch machine I'm sure this wouldn't be a problem but I don't. Isn't there any handheld type long clamp to hold the canvas while I pull it all at once instead of piece by piece? No one's come up with something like this?
Anyone use this before?
http://canvasstretcher.com/index.html
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You don't need wedges to get a tight hand stretch. Just pull harder ;)
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I would highly recommend the Canvas Stretch by CuttingEdge Designs. I have been happily using the 30" model for a year and a half to stretch canvas' as large as 64x40. Gets a little tricky doing the really large canvas'. But 24x36 are a snap! It has an open throat design allowing you to do canvas' larger than the 30", which the machine in your link doesn't have. I do the "overhanging" corners by hand, which many framers like to do anyway. It is an excellent design, and quality manufacturing using stainless on most parts. It easily clamps to a table top for use. I have never had a job returned because the canvas "sagged".
BTW, I am in no way affiliated with the company, just a satisfied user.
http://www.cuttingedgedesigns.org/
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Thanks for that info John. I just called but Al Peters says he is waiting for some material to come in so it won't be ready for at least a couple weeks.
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Alan doesn't have much info or tips on using his machines, but they work very well. I've thought about doing a video for him, but just haven't gotten around to it. He seems to be happy just selling a few machines at a time. Definitely get the "gallery wrap" attachments. That's all I use. If you start doing really large canvas' all the time, consider getting a second machine. They are designed so two can be combined into a 60" capacity unit.
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Just a little bit of info for you... a piece of 1" x1" wood will not withstand the tension of stretching canvas without bending.
The most common size is at least 1x2 which really isn't that big anyhow. As long as your stuff is small you should be ok. But as soon as you try to stretch canvas over 16x20 or so, you will have a problem with the sides curving inward making it look amateurish as well as not fitting into a frame without showing a gap.
Over time, it will warp and twist and look cheap and amateurish. I get this homemade junk in all the time asking me to fix the warped canvas piece. The only way to fix this is to throw it out and do it right as it should have been the first time.
Just because you can buy wood doesn't make it a good decision. By the time you get all done adding on that little half round piece, cutting and assembling and adding interior supports so it doesn't bend inward on you, you could have bought the type with the wedges you are lamenting you wish you had.
Seriously.
When cut to the proper length, your 1x1x16' sticks WILL make great kindling for the woodstove.
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Just a little bit of info for you... a piece of 1" x1" wood will not withstand the tension of stretching canvas without bending.
The most common size is at least 1x2 which really isn't that big anyhow. As long as your stuff is small you should be ok. But as soon as you try to stretch canvas over 16x20 or so, you will have a problem with the sides curving inward making it look amateurish as well as not fitting into a frame without showing a gap.
Over time, it will warp and twist and look cheap and amateurish. I get this homemade junk in all the time asking me to fix the warped canvas piece. The only way to fix this is to throw it out and do it right as it should have been the first time.
Just because you can buy wood doesn't make it a good decision. By the time you get all done adding on that little half round piece, cutting and assembling and adding interior supports so it doesn't bend inward on you, you could have bought the type with the wedges you are lamenting you wish you had.
Seriously.
When cut to the proper length, your 1x1x16' sticks WILL make great kindling for the woodstove.
Agree about the size of your materials 1" is marginal at best.
I use 1 1/2" and 2" deep bars and only the occasional 3/4" depth when float mounting
Everything about the heavier bars is a plus. Stronger,and a great look.
The amount of time needed to do what you are doing does not save you anything.
Just call Decor Moulding in New York. Or a half dozen other companies that sell the same products.
You will have them in 2 days UPS.
I think the 7/8" stretchers are around .45 a foot and the 1 1/2" bars can be had for about .50 a running foot. (When on sale.)
Material from Decor for a 20 x 16 frame will cost you about $3.00 Thats pretty darn cheap.
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Hmmm . . I guess I got my measurements wrong. When I put my wood that I cut myself and the pre-cut bars I bought from stretcherbarwarehouse.com, they are the same size. I'm going to take pictures and measurements to get you all's input on this. I would hate to make canvases with this wood and then they come back because of warping.
Dan, are you talking about a frame or actual stretcher bars?
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He's talking about the actual stretcher material except he forgot the shipping cost for shipping length which will possibly double the cost but still WAY cheaper than what you retrying to do.
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Hmmm . . I guess I got my measurements wrong. When I put my wood that I cut myself and the pre-cut bars I bought from stretcherbarwarehouse.com, they are the same size. I'm going to take pictures and measurements to get you all's input on this. I would hate to make canvases with this wood and then they come back because of warping.
Dan, are you talking about a frame or actual stretcher bars?
Stretcher bar lengths.
Sorry,I did forget shipping and yes it does add a fair amount to the cost.
Do you have your pricing strategy in order?
It is really simple to figure out. If your canvas is $1.00 a square foot and your ink is .50 a foot and your stretchers for a 16 x 20 are $6.00 (With shipping :) ) another couple of bucks for a hanger and varnish then your material costs alone should be around $12.00 for that 16 x 20. You should be able to get $100.00 for one this size. You will find out real fast that the larger sizes are the real money makers.
I took the smaller sizes off my website just because they are not profitable. (Under 11 x 14)
That $6.00 stretcher costs can get neutralized real fast once you start moving some of these.
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Thanks for the equation Dan! That's a huge help. Man I don't know what I'd do without all you guys' help! Well I did have my measurements wrong with the wood. It's pine and it's 1.5" all around. Attached are some pictures I took right now side by side with one of my pre-cut bars from stretcherbarwarehouse. they're almost identical. I went ahead and made a 12" x 16" frame earlier with my uncles help. It feels extremely sturdy and a little heavier than the pre-cuts. I don't think this should do any bending or warping. Oh plus my Wagner came in!! Finally! Now it's testing time. I just need to do a little sanding on the edges because of the sharpness. I used quarter circle molding to get the riser for the canvas to go over the stick. What do you all think??
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Well... the size is more like it! ;D The finished product looks like you could drive a truck over it!
Still would be cheaper to just buy the real thing unless you LIKE to play with wood in which case go for it, and remember to round off all sharp edges where the canvas touches it.
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Actually Fram I did the math and this is what I found. I bought a 16ft 1.5" by 1" stick and a 16ft quarter round molding for $8. On stretcherbarwarehouse if I order 2 - 16" bars and 2- 12" bars plus shipping it would cost me about $8. I payed that much for 16ft. After I cut 2-12" and 2-16" sticks I still had about 10ft left. So it seems to be saving me a substantial amount of money. Or am I doing my math wrong?
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Go to :
http://www.aswexpress.com/discount-art-supplies/canvas-and-boards/stretcher-strips-and-cross-braces/pro-lite.html
The "prolite" sticks would cost you $3.50 for the 12x16 . Plus shipping of course and minimum purchase quantities.
And you are not counting your time to assemble the quarter round and cutting to length!
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Damn USA pricing and shipping! It's starting to irritate me now. I'm gonna moonlight as a lumberjack and start my own Canadian stretcher bar company.
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I guess I don't mind the labor part as long as I'm able to make my own custom sizes on the fly. I hate waiting for shipping.
Those ProLight sticks aren't 1.5" gallery wrap sticks, correct?
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They are standard 3/4 x 1 3/4 with milled ends and slots for tightners. I have cut them down for custom sizes.
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I wish there was a way for me to cut slots for tighteners on my own bars. I hope by stretching and stretching some more I'll eventually get it down pat where it's tight as a drum. Seems like no matter how much I pull with the pliers at the end there's still a little slack.
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Actually Fram I did the math and this is what I found. I bought a 16ft 1.5" by 1" stick and a 16ft quarter round molding for $8. On stretcherbarwarehouse if I order 2 - 16" bars and 2- 12" bars plus shipping it would cost me about $8. I payed that much for 16ft. After I cut 2-12" and 2-16" sticks I still had about 10ft left. So it seems to be saving me a substantial amount of money. Or am I doing my math wrong?
Your doing your math wrong,where is your labor in all this?
Like others have said if you are just playing around and like woodworking projects then go for it.
If you plan on selling these professionally then I would throw all those sticks you bought in the trash and buy the real deal.
From a 30 year multiple business owner who has been down this road with customers my whole life. I think you are in the cat chasing its tail mode.
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Aw man! Dan, if my sticks are as sturdy as the ones I buy online . . the only difference being the pre-notched cuts, why would these not work? What makes those sticks better? I'm asking honestly because I don't know. Everyone else such as yourself that does your own bars . . how do you make yours to be good enough? Is it the wood quality?
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Aw man! Dan, if my sticks are as sturdy as the ones I buy online . . the only difference being the pre-notched cuts, why would these not work? What makes those sticks better? I'm asking honestly because I don't know. Everyone else such as yourself that does your own bars . . how do you make yours to be good enough? Is it the wood quality?
I am not saying yours will not work,they certainly will.
There are companies that make these moldings in stick length ready to miter.(very affordable too!)
I am more interested in seeing you get started down the right path to make this a profitable venture for you.
Spending alot of time on these bar issues just is not necessary when all you have to do is buy them ready to go.
For example. I pull an 8 foot length of moulding out of the bin. Cut the 4 pieces for a 16x20 frame on my dual miter saw then take it to my underpinner and staple it together. Takes slightly under 5 minutes.
With your miter saw and a staple gun it should take you less then 10 minutes to cut and staple your frame together. That's the maximum time you should be spending on stretcher bars,not a minute more.
The stretching is the next thing to master,then the folded corners,then the varnishing and finally don't forget that marketing.
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Dan thanks for the great feedback. I called you a while ago left you a message. What I want to know is ... How do the wood shops make the bar and the quarter circle molding in one piece? What kind of a saw does that?
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Not a saw. It's called a 4 head moulder. 4 heads and a different knife set for each head.
Oversized material is run into the machine and the properly sized and profiled stretchers come out the other end. Not any cheaper then store bought but I wanted poplar instead of pine. My underpinner nails do not work that well in pine.
Sorry I missed you. Should be around tomorrow.
Ps.
Just an added note here. Breathing Color has just modified their Easy Wrap system.
You are the perfect candidate if you can define your sizes.
No cutting and assembling of bars,no stretching and it has the wedges for the corners.
Check it out on their website,it really is worth a look.
It is a way to get into the gallery wrap business with no equipment other then for varnishing. (Then all you really need is the $5.00 foam roller and tray.)
The cost per kit may be double the cost of bars alone but the work to get one of these out the door is 75% less. A very good trade off in my opinion.