Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: grilla on April 23, 2011, 10:49:32 am
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I photograph landscapes 90% of the time as a hobby (www.thecolorblindphotographer.net). I long for the day of using my FUji 6 x 9 rangefinder and Bronica 6 x 6. Todays medium format outfits are very inexpensive, even the hassey's. All I am looking for is a body, digital back, and one lens in the 80mm range. The problem for me is the cost of the digital back. Are there any (and yes I have looked) older digital backs available for the mamiya 645 or hasselblad 501CM in the $2000 range that in your opinion would be worth purchasing? Today's latest and greatest digital backs are many times more than my budget, I am seeking yesterdays 20 mp or close digital back. Your recommendations are highly appreciated.
Gary in Oregon
PS I have no desire to shoot film anymore.
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Gary,
While I can appreciate your optimism, I really do not think it is that easy. Besides the back, you will need to purchase a back adapter to fit your camera body and they can cost in upwards of $1,000; and then there may be some cables and batteries necessary. Try calling the dealers posted on this site to see their offerings. I did what you are trying to do in 12/2009. I purchased a used P45 from Capture Integration and when it was all said and done, I paid $12,000 for the back, $530 for 2 sets of cables, and $1695.00 for a used sliding back totaling, $14,225.00 + tax, etc. Expensive! (I went back and checked the invoice for specifics).
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Gary, I'm sorry to say there are no worthwhile options at that price level. How much do you spend on film, processing and scanning over 3 years? A digital back will save you all of that and still have resale value at the end so it might actually be cheaper in the long run if you shoot enough.
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I am seeking yesterdays 20 mp or close digital back. Your recommendations are highly appreciated.
Gary in Oregon
PS I have no desire to shoot film anymore.
Just keep an eye on Ebay - and wait until you can buy a digiback with the right adapter for your camera thrown in... or decide on any platform e.g. Hassy and start collecting bits.
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It is possible to get a back for this money or just a little more.
If you are willing to carry a laptop with you, you can get a Phase one H20 or H25(16or25mp)
back for this price. The results you will get from these backs are fantastic!!
Also the Sinarbacks are cheap used. Look for 54h, 54s or 54m. All these backs are fantastic
but have no screen so you will need a laptop.
Henrik
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My honest advice is this, either be prepared to spend a bit more for a proper used back like a P20-P30 (or equivalent sinar/leaf/hasselblad) or you're really better off with a good DSLR.
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My honest advice is this, either be prepared to spend a bit more for a proper used back like a P20-P30 (or equivalent sinar/leaf/hasselblad) or you're really better off with a good DSLR.
It might be smart to get a back with a screen. Beaides that the H20 and H25 makes just as good pictures as the P20 and P25.
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I would look for a 16 MP Hasselblad CFV back which would go on a Hasselblad 500 series camera. Be prepared to pay around $4-5K. If you shoot a lot of film you will have that back in no time. If you only shoot one roll of film per week then very honestly it might not be worthwhile to pursue a digital back option, at least not from a financial point of view. Good luck!
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I would look for a 16 MP Hasselblad CFV back which would go on a Hasselblad 500 series camera. Be prepared to pay around $4-5K. If you shoot a lot of film you will have that back in no time. If you only shoot one roll of film per week then very honestly it might not be worthwhile to pursue a digital back option, at least not from a financial point of view. Good luck!
Some of us use MF digital for more benefits than just saving money on film.
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You might want to look at something like the P20 which is available at something close to your budget. You're not going to be blowing away the megapixels but you'll definitely see and benefit from the better dynamic range and colour.
Take a look at this here for sale on this site which is close to your budget:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=53149.0 (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=53149.0)
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Here is a kit worth looking at: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22994
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+1.
That is an attractive setup.
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I have a phase one P25 22MP back available for sale and it is not tethered, shoots to CF cards. check out the for sale section. PM me and I will walk you through it and a system.
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If your goal is to maximize image quality for 2.000+ US$, then the only advise I can give you is to get a Pentax K5/Nikon D7000, a good prime lense and a good pano head.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Some of us use MF digital for more benefits than just saving money on film.
I never claimed the opposite. I focused on cost because of the constraints mentioned by the OP.
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Gary,
Saw your question. There is one option, and it may serve your purpose. Imacon had a Hasselblad V-system digital back that used their Databank. The system is portable, though I would characterize it as a "tethered" system. Not tethered as in requiring a full laptop computer, but in having the Databank drive and battery connected to the back for operation. It was the Imacon V96C with a 16 mpixel CCD (36.9 x 36.9 mm). I have seen these for sale under your $2k mark on occasion for the back alone. Herny's Photo in Toronto had one for $1600 USD recently.
So it is possible though you will have to scratch pretty hard...
Regards,
Al Bowers
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Perhaps I should point out how much a 36x36mm sensor crops a 56x56mm frame, and if you want a 3:2 ratio, then you must crop down to 36x24mm which is the same as a full-frame 35mm camera. Suddenly a 50mm lens is not so wide any more and you might not have anything wider.
(http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/cropping.jpg)
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Perhaps I should point out how much a 36x36mm sensor crops a 56x56mm frame, and if you want a 3:2 ratio, then you must crop down to 36x24mm which is the same as a full-frame 35mm camera. Suddenly a 50mm lens is not so wide any more and you might not have anything wider.
True, but then again AFAIK nobody produces a 56x56mm digital sensor anyway (at least not without stitching ::)
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You might not want to hear this, but for around $2000 you would probably get the best possible image quality from a Sony A850 and a Contax Zeiss MM 50/1.4, 50/1.7 or 35/2.8 using a Leitax mount.
The sensor is of course smaller, but for landscapes stopped down, that makes less of a difference than for other purposes, especially if you use good lenses.
http://www.leitax.com/Zeiss-Contax-lens-for-Sony-cameras.html
For a little bit more money, the Zeiss ZS lenses makes a lot of sense too.
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Hi,
You are of course right, but there are some sensors that cover 6x4.5 format pretty close. They are very expensive. A small sensor would have a crop factor meaning that it would be hard to find any really wide angle. Also, cropping a 36x36 sensor down to 24x36 would eliminate any size advantage of the digital back over full frame DSLR.
Pentax 645D is also cropped of course, and they have developed a special wide angle lens.
Best regards
Erik
True, but then again AFAIK nobody produces a 56x56mm digital sensor anyway (at least not without stitching ::)
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22MP backs are in the $3500 range, check out keh.com or call pro photo in Portland, they occasionally see used...
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For a while I used a Phase one H20 (on RZ67), and G4 Mac laptop very successfully. Not compact or light but quite easy to use and should be available for something in the region of $2K (I paid £1300 for 2xRZ bodies, adaptor, 3 lenses and the H20, and got a Powerphase scanning back as well). On top of that, add an old Mac Ibook or similar. Capture 1 4.8.3 is free in its DB version (digital back only). 16Mpix, and very nice quality.
Glen Orchy (http://flic.kr/p/8x4L4v)
MarkB
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A potential source are the rental houses. I have purchased from Adorama rental and Sammy's rental, via their pro department. The backs in each case had moderate use but were in Ex+ condition. Avoid ebay, this is a big purchase and many omissions occur in the descriptions. Despite the ability to return a back purchased through ebay it becomes a big hassle. Landscape shooting makes tethering difficult at best unless you are always going to be near your car like Ansel Adams with his platform over the roof....but then again who could argue with his results. Landscape photography is tethered as it is with tripods, grad neutral density filters, lenses etc. Studio shooting is fine for tethering but field shooting with it's lack of convenience makes this too difficult. Many photographers love the Phase One P25 but a little known back with a large sensor and similar pixels is the Leaf 54s. The 54s has a much bigger screen with beautiful histograms to evaluate exposure. Phase One on the other hand is simple and for the same reason tethering doesn't work well in the field the simplicity of the Phase backs allows for quick evaluation with a few clicks. Just some speculation on my part: if Nikon and Canon bring out larger sensor full frame camera models I believe the P25 and 54s may fall in price with supply rising when the pros no longer need these backs. In addition the IQ backs from Phase are just about to be released and they are offering generous trade in on practically any back. 35mm cameras are fine for quick shots but for serious landscape work medium format pixels are far superior.
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Probably the cheapest MFDB for unfettered, untethered use (i.e. shoots to CF card, has a screen to evaluate results, and compact detachable Li-ion batteries) is the old Kodak Pro Back 645M. This won't fit a Hasselblad V model, but you also mentioned you are looking for a MFDB for Mamiya; it fits the Mamiya 645AF[D] line. There were also variants for the Contax 645 and Hasselblad H1. And BTW it also shoots tethered over Firewire if you so wish, or with alternative power sources (AC mains transformer or Quantum Turbo battery).
Anyways, I have one and love it. Got it, just-serviced and low-mileage, for $2700; and they've only come down further in price since then. It's still supported by Midwest Camera Repair, who bought all Kodak's stock of spare parts - and who resell/service them very affordably in comparison to the other MFDB manufacturers. For example, I recently got a brand new replacement IR filter and 2 brand new batteries, for the princely total of €210 (no, there's no missing zero there!). Try doing that with PhaseOne, Leaf or Hasselblad! ;)
BTW, the clip-on, clip-off IR filter makes this a fantastic back for switching between regular and Infrared photography, if that's your thing.
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Please pardon the limited knowledge of a newbie on this Forum but this is my current experience of MF digital on a budget and imho, so much depends on your needs as well as your pocket.
If you don't need very wide-angle shots, you should certainly be able to find a back like the Imacon Ixpress 384 with its 16M pixels (4,000x4,000) producing 16bit RGB files of 96-384Mb and that offers single shot, 4 shot and 16 shot modes. I use mine on a Contax 645, Mamiya RZ67 and Fuji GX680III and the image quality is outstanding. Adapters are available for almost all MF bodies with detachable film holders. The use of the ImageBank which houses the battery (Sony info Lithium -series so up to 8 hours of shooting on one charge with the FP970) and the hard drive allows the camera to be used free of a computer if you prefer and I take mine up the sides of the mountains here in Wales. The crop factor does limit your options for wide-angle shots but with 35mm on the Contax, and the 50mm lenses on the Mamiya and Fuji I can get some very usable landscape/architectural pictures - especially with the movements available on the Mamiya (via the Adapter plate)and Fuji (though limited with the 50mm on the Fuji).
Oh yes, and I still use the trusty old Phase 1 H10 tethered on my other Contax 645 in the studio, although I'm about to sell it as the Ixpress 384 renders it redundant really.