Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: JeremyLangford on October 23, 2010, 09:32:37 pm
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I use a unibody Macbook Pro with a Dell U2311H standard gamut IPS monitor. I shoot film and scan with a Nikon Coolscan 9000. I am looking to buy a display calibrator for the U2311H and I'm not sure what to go with. The two best current calibrators seem to be the X-Rite i1Display 2 and the Spyder 3 Elite. It's hard to decide which one of these is better and also if the ColorEyes Display Pro calibrator software would be necessary in addition to one of these two calibrators. It seems like the best overall choice would be the Spyder 3 puck paired with Color Eyes Display Pro software but if this doesn't seem right, please let me know.
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I have had good luck with the ColorMunki and wrote up my observations here:
http://www.bobrockefeller.com/2010/08/08/the-colormunki…lor-management/
Before that I used the i1Display and was happy with it. Whatever you choose, be sure it has the ability to measure luminance values - not turning down today's very bright displays is a very common reason for the "prints too dark" problem many have.
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I use a unibody Macbook Pro with a Dell U2311H standard gamut IPS monitor. I shoot film and scan with a Nikon Coolscan 9000. I am looking to buy a display calibrator for the U2311H and I'm not sure what to go with. The two best current calibrators seem to be the X-Rite i1Display 2 and the Spyder 3 Elite. It's hard to decide which one of these is better and also if the ColorEyes Display Pro calibrator software would be necessary in addition to one of these two calibrators. It seems like the best overall choice would be the Spyder 3 puck paired with Color Eyes Display Pro software but if this doesn't seem right, please let me know.
What is the reason to buy ColorEyes Display Pro? But if you want to buy it there is no reason to buy Spyder3Elite or i1Display 2 - it's enough to get Spyder3Pro or i1Display LT: ColorEyes Display Pro doesn't distinguish between Spyder3Elite and Spyder3Pro or between i1Display 2 and i1Display LT.
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Whatever you choose, be sure it has the ability to measure luminance values - not turning down today's very bright displays is a very common reason for the "prints too dark" problem many have.
Ditto!
The Spyder3 is not very good in this regard, the luminance measurement is a bit hidden in the Elite version (whereas is it one of the most basic requirements of calibrating), and non-existant in the Express and Pro version. You still can use it with another software (there is a bundle with ColorEyes, and I'd think there also may be one with BasicColor - a third choice is DispCalGUI which is free, and can speak with the Spyder3 express for those on a budget).
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a third choice is DispCalGUI which is free, and can speak with the Spyder3 express for those on a budget).
Personally I'd get the least expansive sensor (Eye One or Spyder3), and use ArgyllCMS with dispcalGUI.
It's worth to mention, that the new ArgyllCMS v1.3 has interesting new feature that allows us to use reference spectrophotometer (like i1pro or ColorMunki) to create a correction matrix for our display and colorimeter combination.
http://www.argyllcms.com/doc/ccmxmake.html
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Why complicate things? We're only talking about a simple, normal gamut, entry level monitor. The iOne Display2 is a proven package and will do an excellent job. The Spyder3 Elite would also do a good job. No third party software is needed.
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You've convinced me and saved me $100.
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The DTP94b is way better than an off the shelf i1D2 or the Spyder3. CEDP should work well with it on that monitor.
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The DTP94b is way better than an off the shelf i1D2 or the Spyder3. CEDP should work well with it on that monitor.
Real world experience... I have a DTP-94 and a Spyder3 puck, both less than a year old. I use CEDP with a Dell monitor that uses the same LG e-IPS display panel as Mr. Langford's. The profiles created with the Spyder3 puck are of equal quality to those made with the DTP-94. These remarks are based on viewing and printing standardized test images, in addition to the software generated profile validation reports.
BTW... If anyone wants to buy a nearly new DTP-94, I have one for sale.
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Real world experience... I have a DTP-94 and a Spyder3 puck, both less than a year old. I use CEDP with a Dell monitor that uses the same LG e-IPS display panel as Mr. Langford's. The profiles created with the Spyder3 puck are of equal quality to those made with the DTP-94. These remarks are based on viewing and printing standardized test images, in addition to the software generated profile validation reports.
BTW... If anyone wants to buy a nearly new DTP-94, I have one for sale.
maybe you got lucky
reports say that about 30% of spyder3 are awful, 30% mediocre, 20% ok, 10% fantastic.
while DTP94b have better inter instrument agreement, on average you are much more likely to get a good copy
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I got the eye-one display 2 but I'm a little confused on the calibration process. I think I've read somewhere that you should leave all of the monitor settings at default before you calibrate. I've also read that changing a LCD's color temperature reduces its gamut. But the eye-one software is prompting me to change the monitor settings. How to the monitor settings (the actual buttons on the monitor) relate to the eye-ones calibration and profiling? Also, am I only calibrating the video card LUT, not the monitor's internal LUT (if it even has one)?
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Depending on the quality of the display itself, you might just end up using Native White Point and Native Gamma which will leave the LUTs alone and simply describe them within the profile. That leaves just setting the luminance which you can control via whatever controls affect the backlight intensity. I’d start there. If the print to display match is off in terms of white point, you can decide if you want to now alter the LUTs to adjust. Better to get a match and a tad of banding than not IMHO. Once you set Match for Native/Native, just follow what it asks you to do to adjust Luminance.
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Jeremy, the native white of those e-IPS Dell monitors is often very close to 6500K (mine is about 6400K). Do an initial calibration with native settings and find out what the software reports for your white temperature and black luminance.
Yes, you are only dealing with the video card card LUT. The Brightness control is the backlight. Leave the Contrast at the default level (75).
If you do want to adjust the RGB controls for whatever reason, I wouldn't lower them to less than 90 (default level is 100). This should not induce any visible banding. The RGB controls are accessible by selecting the Custom RGB color preset in the OSD menu.
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Depending on the quality of the display itself, you might just end up using Native White Point and Native Gamma which will leave the LUTs alone and simply describe them within the profile. That leaves just setting the luminance which you can control via whatever controls affect the backlight intensity. I’d start there. If the print to display match is off in terms of white point, you can decide if you want to now alter the LUTs to adjust. Better to get a match and a tad of banding than not IMHO. Once you set Match for Native/Native, just follow what it asks you to do to adjust Luminance.
I am calibrating a Dell U2311H. Would this quality of monitor be fit for using Native/Native? For luminance, would I initially set it on the OSD menu and then choose "no change" in the software? Does "no change" mean native?
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I am calibrating a Dell U2311H. Would this quality of monitor be fit for using Native/Native? For luminance, would I initially set it on the OSD menu and then choose "no change" in the software? Does "no change" mean native?
You’ll have to check the spec’s and see if the panel itself supports more than 8-bits per color. If not, stick with Native/Native. For luminance you’ll set the target you want and the software will ask you to adjust the OSD (figuring out the right button is sometimes tricky) until you hit that target. Then you’ll adjust to taste.
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...For luminance, would I initially set it on the OSD menu and then choose "no change" in the software?
Jeremy, I always do a an initial calibration at all default and native settings just to size up the default performance of the monitor right out of the box. You'll find that the luminance is blazing bright at default settings, but you'll also learn what "native" performance is for your monitor.
Once you've done this initial calibration, the next calibration will be to tweak the luminance level to your needs. On the Dell U2311h, the Brightness control IS the backlight, so that's what you use for luminance adjustment.
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I'm late to the party but I've been a satisfied user of the i1 Display 2 device for about 1.5 years now. I started with a Spyder and frankly, it just wasn't a good product. I sold it on eBay and bought the i1 Display 2 and haven't had any issues since. Great product.
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I just calibrated my U2311H to native white point/gamma/luminance. All of my monitor OSD settings have not been changed except for the brightness which I lowered to 40.
Here's the profile:
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9529/screencapturep.jpg)
I have no idea what luminance to aim for. Is the current 180.5 cd/m2 normal?
The current color temperature is unfortunately 6700 K instead of 6500 K.
The current gamma isn't listed for some reason.
What is the next step in calibrating/profiling my monitor?
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I have no idea what luminance to aim for. Is the current 180.5 cd/m2 normal?
Statistically speaking speaking, it's bright... but might be OK ; the question is whether it matches your prints or not.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/why_are_my_prints_too_dark.shtml
The current color temperature is unfortunately 6700 K instead of 6500 K.
Not likely to cause a problem.
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I have no idea what luminance to aim for. Is the current 180.5 cd/m2 normal?
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/why_are_my_prints_too_dark.shtml
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Jeremy- As I mentioned... the native white point of that monitor is not far off from 6500K. If 6700k proves to be too cold for you, I'm sure it wouldn't cause any problems to specify 6500k next time you recalibrate (no banding issues). The black level of 0.2cd/m2 is exactly what I expected from that monitor and is a good deep black.
You can calculate your contrast ratio by 180/0.20 = 900, or 900:1 contrast ratio.
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Jeremy- As I mentioned... the native white point of that monitor is not far off from 6500K. If 6700k proves to be too cold for you, I'm sure it wouldn't cause any problems to specify 6500k next time you recalibrate (no banding issues). The black level of 0.2cd/m2 is exactly what I expected from that monitor and is a good deep black.
You can calculate your contrast ratio by 180/0.20 = 900, or 900:1 contrast ratio.
If I specify 6500k next time I re-calibrate, will the software change the actual settings on the monitor just like if I changed them with the OSD menu?
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I have no idea what luminance to aim for. Is the current 180.5 cd/m2 normal?
The proper luminance for your screen is whatever number is needed to achieve a screen to print match.
The current color temperature is unfortunately 6700 K instead of 6500 K.
Why is that unfortunate? If you used a colorimeter of any make or model that number is meaningless anyway because two colorimeters of the exact same make and model often won't agree with one another on what a given color temperature is. I own three different colorimeters. If you use a spectrophotometer to more accurately profile a screen to a specific color temp and them sample that temp with the colorimeters, one of them reports 7400ºK and the other 5600ºK. That's an 1800ºK difference between the two for the SAME color temp. They are only useful for correcting color relative to themselves, not to a specific color temperature. Also, if your goal is a screen-to-print match, I'll give you a hint... if you're using a bulb that is 4700ºK, having your screen's color temp profiled to 6500ºK isn't going to get you a match.
Now let's say your screen's native color temp IS 6700ºK. This is not a bad thing (unless the manufacturer claims the native temp is 6500ºK in which case it's out of spec). Keep in mind that Dell does not manufacture professional grade monitors.
What is the next step in calibrating/profiling my monitor?
Make sure your viewing environment is properly set up. This means controlled lighting (get light blocking shades if you don't already have them). Make sure you have a repeatable, full spectrum light source to view your prints with. I recommend SoLux bulbs which are available from solux.net (a "full spectrum" bulb from the hardware store won't cut it... sunlight is great but it's not repeatable as the color temp of natural light changes from sunrise to sunset and weather conditions can change it).
As for luminance, again you have to match it to a print (one known to be properly exposed and printed properly) or... match your print illumination to your screen. I typically find myself working at around 110 cd/m^2 (180 cd/m^2 would literally give me an instant headache).
Cheers, Joe
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If I specify 6500k next time I re-calibrate, will the software change the actual settings on the monitor just like if I changed them with the OSD menu?
It won't do it automatically, but will present you with the opportunity to manually adjust the RGB levels, via the OSD, to get close to 6500k. But if the monitor looks good and some test prints match your display closely, then there's no need to do anything different.
I agree with the advice to get your luminance lower than 180cd/m2. Dialing in the luminance level that works for your own working environment and lighting conditions is very much a trial and error affair. Maybe start by lowering your Brightness from 40 down to 30 next time you recalibrate and see how that works for you.