Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: LarsHansen on September 27, 2010, 10:35:47 am
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Hi,
I need some tweaking input - I think it would be nice to be able to use a ball head upside down so that it can act as a levelling base for the pan rotator.
I've decided to buy a tripod that has a (fixed) 3/8 mounting screw, but the ball head I'm concidering has a 1/4 thread if I remove the QR clamp... does anyone know of a good quality converter that has a 3/8 thread and a 1/4 screw? Or am I missing to see some other obvious solution... :-[
I have the option of mounting a QR clamp on the pod and then a QR plate on the ball .. but it's getting more expensive and maybe a bit awkward..
/Lars
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The Novoflex magicball is an inverted ball head
http://www.novoflex.com/en/products/camera-support-systems/ball-heads/magicball/
My preference is a leveling tripod and a ball head with a panning base. I find that I can tilt the camera up or down (down when at the top of a cliff/mountain or up when at the base of a cliff/mountain) and then pan across the horizon using the leveled panning base
Marc
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Take a look at this one: http://www.indurogear.com/products_catalog_PHQ-Series-PanHeads.html I haven't seen any real reviews of it yet, but the concept looks good.
I built an adaptor for my ball head that replaced the quick release mechanism and bolts directly to the ball. The pano head is bolted directly to the panning side of the ballhead and the quick release is on the camera arm of the pano head. I don't see any need to remove the pano head from the tripod since it allows you to use it like a pan and tilt head as well as using the ball head.
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Thanks Marc and Elf,
maybe I should just get a panning base to mount on top of the ball head after removing the QR clamp and get on with my life ;)
Marc - I know the MagicBall and it's a good option though a bit pricey for me. Also, I read a german review that wasn't in the MagicBall's favour compared to several other and cheaper ball heads. I hope to be able to achieve almost the same with a traditional ball head upside down which can also be used in normal position... I would also like a standardised QR clamp like Arca.
If your german is ok, take a look at this review: http://www.traumflieger.de/desktop/ballhead/ballheads4.php#novoflex
What do you mean with a "leveling tripod"? - I find it tricky to level a tripod. Thats why I believe an upside down ball head (or a ball head like MagicBall) will make things easier.
Elf - that head looks very interresting - it's probably quick to get the panbase leveled. Unfortunately, for me it has two drawbacks - the price and the size+weight. Still - I think I would be able to achieve somewhat same functionality by using a ball head upside down.
I'm not sure I understand the configuration you're explaining - is it a ball head you use? As far as understand you have done what I'm planning to do c.f. "I built an adaptor for my ball head that replaced the quick release mechanism and bolts directly to the ball."
I only plan to remove the QR clamp so that I have a thread to mount the head upside down on the tripod screw. The panning base of the ball head will then be the platform I mount a QR clamp .. and then the camera on top. I will then be able to level the panbase/camera and perform panning levelled.
/Lars
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Here's a few images of the upside down ballhead.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/etfrench/SpericalPanoHead_v2_2.jpg)
The configuration works well and can be used inverted for macros:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/etfrench/N5354.jpg)
There really isn't any reason the upside down ball head has to be perfectly centered on the tripod. One of my first adaptors was just a disk of 3/8" aluminum with 3/8" and 1/4" tapped holes.
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Have you considered the leveling bases from Acratech?
http://acratech.net/home.php?cat=2
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The most important point is you want to pan at the base of the ball head not at the clamp if you pan at the clamp you cannot tilt the camera up or down to cover the scene you want to capture
the following is a leveling tripod: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/568862-REG/Gitzo_GT2540LLVL_GT2540LLVL_Leveling_6X_Carbon.html there are cheaper options
I would not suggest a magic ball but a proper ball head with a panning base one of my favorites is the RRS BH-55 but its expensive, on a budget I like the Linhof Profi II, used on ebay less than $200 I've bought 2 that way
http://www.amazon.com/Linhof-Profi-Ballhead-II-Tripod-head/dp/B000B8NQU2
Marc
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I only plan to remove the QR clamp so that I have a thread to mount the head upside down on the tripod screw. The panning base of the ball head will then be the platform I mount a QR clamp .. and then the camera on top. I will then be able to level the panbase/camera and perform panning levelled.
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I am a bit confused. Why a ballhead on a leveling base, seems to be adds complexity for no benefit. I got a leveling base so that I could eliminate the ball head, which is very tedious to level.
Steve
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Elf - thats a versatile head you've build!
I'm considering to go for a german multirow pan head, but what I'm reading around here is that I might not need it if I'm not making panos of close objects - here is the pano head: http://www.panorama-hardware.com/
So, for now I just need more control to avoid too much cropping when shooting panos - which the upside down head would give.
I can see on your pics that you've made the "interface" I need betweeen the tripod and the ball of the ball head.
I found this alternative, but I think the narrow surface smells of potential shaking: http://www.filmtools.com/adapter.html
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Sheldon - yes and no. I've considered the Acratech GP-s ball head which has the option of upside down as part of the design (as I understand).
So far I've deselected a leveling base because I think a ball head can do what I need.
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OK Marc - now I get it. The center column can be leveled.
I'm considering a Feisol tripod which has a similar option - they just call it a leveling base. You just remove the center column and add a leveling base like the one Steve (vandevanterSH) posted in this thread. I guess the Gitzo is more versatile, but my budget is not for Gitzo. I'm trying to make a "shortcut" ;)
"The most important point is you want to pan at the base of the ball head not at the clamp if you pan at the clamp you cannot tilt the camera up or down to cover the scene you want to capture"
Sorry, maybe my English-skills is unsufficient. I would like both options - a "classic" ball head with the panning rotator at the bottom - AND the option of turning it upside down so that I have the pan rotator at the top so that I can level the panning rotator using the ball as a kind of "leveling base" for the pan rotator. Does that make sense?
I'm not sure I understand why I can't tilt the camera? - I know it means that the pan rotator then will be un-leveled.
Yes - I've also looked at the Linhof as an option.
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I am a bit confused. Why a ballhead on a leveling base, seems to be adds complexity for no benefit. I got a leveling base so that I could eliminate the ball head, which is very tedious to level.
Steve - my session was timed out when I posted my answer to you and was lost... bugger. I'll get back to you. I understand your confusion - I'm not planning to use a leveling base below a ball head.
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So, for now I just need more control to avoid too much cropping when shooting panos ..
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I have a complete Manfrotto system with a Manfrotto leveling base.....it sits in the closet and was rarely used. Reason: complex, heavy, and time consuming to set up. If you have a Gitzo series 3 or RRS tripod, the RRS single row pano is easy to level, light weight and the bits and pieces can be used for other purposes. It is also expandable if you decide, in the future, to do multi-row. I don't think that this system is unique but the high tolerances of their CNC machining means that all of the parts, even though not made as a set, level perfectly.
Or I may be totally missing what you want to do. :>)
Steve
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oops...the single row set-up didn't post
Steve
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with your set up you can't tilt the camera and pan across the horizon with a leveling base and a panning ball head you can shoot other than straight ahead!
Marc
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Steve - very nice setup :)
"Or I may be totally missing what you want to do. :>)"
First of all I would like to make best use of my equipment - being able to use a ball head "both ways" gives me more oppertunities.
Yes - single row panos. I would like to get better control when shooting single row panos and from what I understand after reading some long posts here, I get the impression that a simple solution is a ball head upside down for leveling of the pan rotator on the base of the ball head - just like the Acratech GP ball head or the Arca-Swiss Monoball P1. Should also mean less need for cropping which I often need when I shoot panos hand held. I'd also like to do panos using longer exposure time.
What I don't wan't to do is ;)
"I have a complete Manfrotto system with a Manfrotto leveling base.....it sits in the closet and was rarely used. Reason: complex, heavy, and time consuming to set up. "
I wouldn't mind to get my hands on precision stuff from RRS, but my budget isn't for that. For now I'll try to see how far I can get with a simple ball head ... just need to find a 3/8 to 1/4 converter that looks more right for the setup. Actually, Feisol has a monopod with 1/4 to 3/8 reversible mounting screw - that would have been nice on the tripod.
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with your set up you can't tilt the camera and pan across the horizon with a leveling base and a panning ball head you can shoot other than straight ahead!
Marc
The RRS leveling base is based on a standard 75mm bowl and will elevate or depress ~15 degrees from horizontal. I will have to experiment but I have a hard time visualizing panning a straight line across the horizon when the base is tilted. Is a ball head any different?
Steve
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Marc
OK - I think I'm getting the point. Wouldn't I get same effect with a multi-row pan head?
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I wouldn't mind to get my hands on precision stuff from RRS, but my budget isn't for that. For now I'll try to see how far I can get with a simple ball head ... just need to find a 3/8 to 1/4 converter that looks more right for the setup. Actually, Feisol has a monopod with 1/4 to 3/8 reversible mounting screw - that would have been nice on the tripod.
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What support equipment do you have now? I guess my bias is based on having several boxes full of incompatible tripod parts that were dead ends when it came to expanding my needs. I am far from an expert on support systems or pano but I now try and base purchases on versatility. The buy right, buy once philosophy of which I have been a poor example. The obvious modifier is budget. The starting point for a pano set up would be standard ball head with clamp and an "L" clamp for the camera. If parallax is an issue add a rail. My final thought is that if you are just beginning to build a tripod support system, begin by standardizing on Arca-Swiss compatible clamps and plates, with the understanding that "compatibility is a relative term". :>)
Steve
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Marc
OK - I think I'm getting the point. Wouldn't I get same effect with a multi-row pan head?
yes but now you have to carry extra gear my simple solution that I take with me every time is a leveling tripod and a ball head with a panning base nothing more is needed!
Marc
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Without the spherical pano head, you will have parallax isssues. Whether those parallax issues will matter depends on a lot of factors like print size and how much hand editing you want to do. Panoramas also need to follow (somewhat) the composition rules for normal sized images. Having some foreground interest is one rule that is good, but parallax is then a problem. I think it is actually harder to shoot a panorama that is interesting than it is to shoot a single frame.
I'd recommend starting with the upside down ball head to see if it will accomplish what you need. The next step would be to add a plate that allows you to move the camera back, so the entrance pupil is centered on the rotation point. After that, a spherical pano head and/or a leveling base could be added. The order you add them would depend on what's limiting you. It actually isn't as easy to get the ball head level as it seems. I usually need several adjustments to get it perfect. The only real cost of not having it perfectly level is you may have to add more frames to make sure you have the subject area covered (that is if you have the spherical pano head).
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It actually isn't as easy to get the ball head level as it seems.
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It can be annoying and time consuming, that's I why I bought the RRS leveling base when it became available. Why leveling the 75mm bowl is faster and seems more precise that trying the level my BH-55 ballhead and pano clamp, I not sure.
Steve
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some times you just shoot panos hand held because your tripod isn't with you so all this pano equipment really isn't necessary if your shooting landscapes and just trying to "record the moment"
2 hand held panos that I stitched:
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Steve,
well.. I've got some 20+ years old Velbon stuff I mostly leave at home due to weight. So first of all, I'm looking for a new lightweight tripod and a ball head for general purpose - and, as you write, with a budget modifier. I just wan't to add the possibility of turning it upside down because it - as you also write - makes it more versatile.
Yes, I noticed that compatibility is relative :) Thats why I'm also looking for a ball head with the option of selecting my own preferred QR clamp. I might choose to go for a rail and L bracket instead of the multi-row pan head after reading the input here. I also like to do macro, and a rail might be a good investment.
I think shooting panos has become more interresting with the good stitching software that has become available. I started by trying it hand held and then began reading on the subject. Compared to the setup you have I guess the multi-row pano head I've considered isn't expensive, but I agree that it might end up in a box in the closet because it's not that versatile and also large to carry around.
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Marc - true, the extra weight isn't what I need. I've done some landscape panos hand held that ended up nice ... with some practice they will probably get better. But I would like to add some more control while shooting and the possibility to shoot using longer exposure times. I'll reconsider the multi row head after reading the recommendations posted here - but I will need a ball head for all-round purpose and if I can also use it upside down it would be fine.
Great panos :)
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Marc - true, the extra weight isn't what I need. I've done some landscape panos hand held that ended up nice ... with some practice they will probably get better. But I would like to add some more control while shooting and the possibility to shoot using longer exposure times. I'll reconsider the multi row head after reading the recommendations posted here - but I will need a ball head for all-round purpose and if I can also use it upside down it would be fine.
Great panos :)
Keep looking on ebay for a used Linhof Profi II I've bought 2 or 3 of these over the years for under $200 in as new condition! Not as good as a RRS BH-55 but the best on a budget!
Marc
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Elf,
good point regarding composition issues and parallax error. So far my motives for panos have been landscape resembling the ones Marc posted (but far from as interresting as his..). I can think of many other situations with more and closer foreground I'd like to try shooting as panos and then, as you write, I'll have to decide what to do.
I've been presented with some interresting alternatives to a spherical pano head from you and the other guys in this thread so I won't rush out and buy one now. That was also my starting point for this thread, but I admit a spherical head has been on my mind for some time as "next level". I'm often biking/hiking around in the Danish countryside so weight and size is important... lighter alternatives are welcome.
I'll see how far I can get with the ball head and for using it upside down I will need a L bracket to get my camera in portrait position.
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Take a look at this one: http://www.indurogear.com/products_catalog_PHQ-Series-PanHeads.html I haven't seen any real reviews of it yet, but the concept looks good.
And did you see the price? It is going for $315 at online shops! After the budget-busting prices of some heads, it looks like a real bargain! It comes with an Arca Swiss compatible quick release plate, which Arca Swiss wants $48 for by itself! And 5 levels? I'm in love.
I think I'm placing an order
Carl
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No doubt it's a great tool, but it's large and weigths almost 1 kg. For my need it must be smaller and lighter to carry around. Like the Linhof Profi II that Marc recommended.
/Lars