Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: nad54 on September 03, 2010, 03:02:26 am
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Okay this got your attention (or maybe not)
http://www.photographyblog.com/news/new_hasselblad_camera_at_photokina/
The new camera could be the H4D 50 multishot but new lens.......that is interesting.
Or could Fuji and Hasselblad have something up their sleeve. How about a non reflex camera using the smaller chip Kodak are currently selling to Leica and Pentax?
Let the war of words and opinions commence...
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It used to be that a camera maker would quietly improve a model without any fanfare. Sometimes the only way to know if a camera included the upgrade would be by checking the serial number.
These days, the slightest change to a single button is enough for the maker to give the camera a new name, and to start generating marketing hype.
I fear this might be a case of the latter, but it won't be long until we know for sure.
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Okay this got your attention (or maybe not)
http://www.photographyblog.com/news/new_hasselblad_camera_at_photokina/
The new camera could be the H4D 50 multishot but new lens.......that is interesting.
Or could Fuji and Hasselblad have something up their sleeve. How about a non reflex camera using the smaller chip Kodak are currently selling to Leica and Pentax?
Let the war of words and opinions commence...
H4D-60MS?
WA zoom that covers the 60Mpx chip?
HC 600 f5.6?
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I'd like to see a H4D 20 to 30mp and FF or 1.1 to upgrade the H3D II 22mp
that pixel race sucks
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“announce exciting news for the entire photographic community including new lenses, software, digital back and camera.”
really? so what's going to excite the 35mm digital users? they make up a significant part of the photography "community"
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really? so what's going to excite the 35mm digital users? they make up a significant part of the photography "community"
a H4D 22mp at 7000 euros
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H4D22 is unlikely since the 22MP sensors have been discontinued. H4D50MS already exists. H4D60MS would be not that shocking besides it being a multishot Dalsa which is a first for Hasselblad I believe.
New lens? That is interesting as long as it has a friendlier pricetag than the HCD35-90 which is a fantastic lens BTW.
Ah, well lets wait and see. I am still waiting for a price quote on upgrading one of my 39MP backs. I could have bought something new this year if I would have gotten a good offer but even getting price quotes or offers at all seems to be very hard. Maybe a good thing so I can upgrade to this new and exciting thing...
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“announce exciting news for the entire photographic community including new lenses, software, digital back and camera.”
I'll play....
Purely guesses / wishful thinking:
• exciting news for the entire photographic community: Canon acquires Hasselblad from Shriro http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,65.0.html
• new lenses: revised 50mm and 120mm, and praying for 60mm or 70mm http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpost.php?p=232608&postcount=12
• software: iPhocus for iPad, iPod Touch, iPhone who isn't getting on the Apple train?
• digital back: CF 50ms logical progression
• camera: Leica S2-like
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Ha! Just as I was planning on buying a 28mm and a 210 mm. I wonder if there is any chance that they might announce a wider-than-28mm lens, I would gladly prefer that instead of the somewhat not-so-extreme-wa 28mm. I would also love updated mid-tele and macro lenses with the AF speed found in the HCD lenses or even faster. A vertical grip similar to PhaseOne's and a Wi-Fi transmitter (or even better, a grip with an integrated wi-fi transmitter and why not PW as well) would make me a happy man :) a firmware update which enables raw+jpg shooting and the ability to send the jpgs over wifi to an ipad, It can't be that hard and I'm sure they will implement that sooner or later, they can't stay stuck in 2003 forever. And a new LCD (this time usable) for the H4D with an update option for existing owners, pleaaase!
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Well i just purchased a 35-90. So i'm sure there will be an update or something better than released... grrr.
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I'll play....
Purely guesses / wishful thinking:
• exciting news for the entire photographic community: Canon acquires Hasselblad from Shriro http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,65.0.html
Maybe :-) MOre money for development!!!
• new lenses: revised 50mm and 120mm, and praying for 60mm or 70mm
I think It will be new macro lens, HCD 100, HCD 70 or 65 and HCD 150 or HCD 180 and new HCD300 or 500
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpost.php?p=232608&postcount=12
• software: iPhocus for iPad, iPod Touch, iPhone who isn't getting on the Apple train?
Ipad with connections to Phocus it will be nice thing, but only in add to your computer.
• digital back: CF 50ms logical progression
Let;s say CFV 50, CF50ms and something with CMOS chip
• camera: Leica S2-like
Maybe something like xpan ?? :) or compact camera ...
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I was told recently by Hasselblad that they did not have any CFII-39 back in stock anymore.
My guess would be that the new digital back is the successor of the CFII-39.
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I agree with you, every 10 more megapixels get's a e-mail blast of twenty announcements.
It's just a different world where cameras are now electronic and the electronic business model is to sell volume every 18 months or so.
The thing is in this shoot motion, 2,000 iso world, I've shot with my contax's phases now more than ever, (as long as I can tether) and now that v5 is stable (at least on a powerbook that takes fw 400) I can shoot 2100 frames a day without issue.
Did that yesterday with the p21+ and it's kind of funny I could have shot with my p30+, I could buy a p40, or hd40, 50 or 60, but the p21 makes a 50 megabyte file and I don't really need anything that does anymore than that.
In fact I probably can and will use those two older phase backs and the Contax forever and the only thing that would even closely temp me to buy something new in a still camera would be a better lcd.
So I hope Hasselblad does have something exciting, but i kind of think it's going to be more megapixels.
BC
P.S. Phase has improved they're skin tones in V5 and for that I give a big thanks.
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Hasselblad could make a lot of money making an affordable 22mp back
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Hasselblad could make a lot of money making an affordable 22mp back
I feel less alone :-) but not a crop a FF or a1.1
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Hasselblad could make a lot of money making an affordable 22mp back
This is getting a bit tiresome. Actually at this stage a 22MP back probably would become more expensive than a 50MP back. None of the MF manufacturers develop or produce their own sensors. They are depending on what their suppliers can deliver. 22MP sensors are simply no longer available from them. Hasselblad would probably loose money producing and selling a 22MP system cheap.
There are now affordable 40MP systems. Let's face it 15K in euros for a 40MP system together with a lens that would normally set you back for 5K in euros means 10K in euros for a new 40MP system. Which is only a tad above the 24MP system of Nikon.
At this moment when you want a cheaper ~20MP system buy either a Canon or Nikon or buy a second hand 22MP or 39MP system which are in the same price league.
Some dealers have 2nd hand 22/39MP MF equipment that comes with warranty at a good price and these things simply are almost impossible to sell. Try selling a 22MP system at this moment and you will find you almost have to give it away. I hear some people nagging about how much money can be made with cheap 22MP systems but for some strange reason hardly anyone seems to be buying those that are around.
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At this moment when you want a cheaper ~20MP system buy either a Canon or Nikon or buy a second hand 22MP or 39MP system which are in the same price league.
Or a brand new Leaf Aptus-II 5 or Mamiya DM22 kit with a still-in-production Dalsa 22MP chip for 6-7K EUR with warranty and full support in Capture One and Leaf Capture
Just sayin'
Y
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Yes, you are totally right! I almost forgot about those. The affordable 22MP systems are there. Even new! (don't get me tempted :)). Unless ofcourse affordable means for free or almost for free but otherwise these systems are here and can be bought today.
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There are now affordable 40MP systems.
yes but 1.3 , no FF
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Or a brand new Leaf Aptus-II 5 or Mamiya DM22 kit with a still-in-production Dalsa 22MP chip for 6-7K EUR with warranty and full support in Capture One and Leaf Capture
Just sayin'
Y
yes but if you have Hasselblad lenses you do what ? you keep your body 20 years if you don't need or don't want 50 or 60 mp ?
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yes but if you have Hasselblad lenses you do what ? you keep your body 20 years if you don't need or don't want 50 or 60 mp ?
You buy that 22MP back and keep it for as long as your camera/ lenses will last...
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You buy that 22MP back and keep it for as long as your camera/ lenses will last...
thanks Hasselblad ....
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There you go Yair. You get it.
Overall, I've never really understood the marketing of medium format.
It's always been about more detail, or sharper images, sometimes more film like, but all of this if very subjective, subject/light/photographer's style dependent and with that in mind I can show 6 images that prove one format is better, show 6 more that prove the opposite.
Charts and brick walls might prove the detail is there, but none of that testing will prove one camera shoots more unique. That is a much different circumstance to shoot something unique.
For every photographer that is positive their A or P or H 31 is more film like compared to a canon or nikon or sony, there are an equal number of clients/photographers that believe the opposite.
What medium format offers compared to any of the smaller framed dslrs is a DIFFERENT look. Not always better, sometimes better, but always different.
Different is important.
Also what medium format offers compared to any of the smaller dslrs is you tend to own the mf cameras for a much longer time. Partially because the buy in is higher, mostly because medium format features run glacier slow.
I doubt seriously if the next photokina sees any announcement of a 90 mpx full frame, 900,000 pixel 4" lcd camera that shoots 2000 iso clean, shoots video and stills, has mutli point autofocus and a series of f2 lenses.
If this came about i think we'd all be shocked, but in the smaller format world you kind of expect a lot of this to happen, almost all of it.
Now that still doesn't mean medium format doesn't have a place, in fact I'm surprised that most photographers speak in these all or nothing terms, like one camera must be everything. It never was like that in the film days where every photographer used multiple formats, it's not like that in the digital world.
As I said, I'm shooting my contax more and more and mostly because for some of the styles I'm working in I like the look because it is a little different and I like using a waist level finder.
As long as it doesn't break, or shut down whether clients notice the difference or not is irrelevant. It matters if it makes me happy and I only get happy if I get the image I want.
Medium format development moves glacier slow and that's not really a bad thing, because instead of running to the bank every time someone announces an extra 10 megapixels, I can concentrate on my photography and my business. The camera becomes a given, something I just use, something I expect to use without having to learn a new menu system, buy new chargers, find a different workflow.
Now if you want clients (paying commercial clients not classes or seminar clients) to notice the difference on set, it obviously should be the image they're looking at, though the only camera currently in production that looks physically different is the hasselblad.
It's funny, a lot of us begged blad to make it in black, but keeping it grey kind of makes it different, makes it a Hasselblad. If you put a Canon and Mamiya on set, side by side, no client will notice the difference, at least not setting on a tripod with that built in prism finder.
So maybe at Photokina, Mamiya should come out with a medium grey camera with a waist level finder.
IMO
BC
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For every photographer that is positive their A or P or H 31 is more film like compared to a canon or nikon or sony, there are an equal number of clients/photographers that believe the opposite.
BC
¿What was ever special about film?
I mean apart from in comparison to glass plates.
¿Do you like grain?
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¿What was ever special about film?
Agreed.
If someone can make a case for something giving images that are more life-like, I am interested.
When someone talks about seeking images that are more film-like, it strikes me as irrelevant nostalgia. (Except if a professional is forced to cater to some such nostalgic demand from a customer, sort of like asking for sepia toning.)
But I never wanted my CDs to be "more LP-like" (with pops and clicks and rolled off high frequencies except with fantastically expensive gear) either, so I must be a hopeless modernist.
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yes but if you have Hasselblad lenses you do what ? you keep your body 20 years if you don't need or don't want 50 or 60 mp ?
Buy a CF39 and keep your V system as a back-up... and for the situations in which you would not want to risk using your H4D-60.
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and for the situations in which you would not want to risk using your H4D-60.
I dont need 60mp , who really need it ?
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What medium format offers compared to any of the smaller framed dslrs is a DIFFERENT look. Not always better, sometimes better, but always different.
Different is important.
Exactly
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Or a brand new Leaf Aptus-II 5 or Mamiya DM22 kit with a still-in-production Dalsa 22MP chip for 6-7K EUR with warranty and full support in Capture One and Leaf Capture
Just sayin'
Y
that's the best deal around for whom who can deal with low iso !
is there any difference between this two ?
except the label ?
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that's the best deal around for whom who can deal with low iso !
is there any difference between this two ?
except the label ?
Functionally, there is not. There may be some differences in packaging, miscellaneous included accessories, etc. In the USA, the price is virtually the same. If you work with abundant light, it's a great solution at a reasonable price for shooting medium format digital. Comparatively large sensor, excellent tonality, fast capture. Also, since both are based on the Aptus II model, Live Video (to computer) is included without any $1,600 dongle. Beware of long exposure though, as the Aptus II-5/DM 22 won't compare well to others.
So, for 22MP medium format, the $7K-ish pricing already exists.
Steve Hendrix
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Functionally, there is not. There may be some differences in packaging, miscellaneous included accessories, etc. In the USA, the price is virtually the same. If you work with abundant light, it's a great solution at a reasonable price for shooting medium format digital. Comparatively large sensor, excellent tonality, fast capture. Also, since both are based on the Aptus II model, Live Video (to computer) is included without any $1,600 dongle. Beware of long exposure though, as the Aptus II-5/DM 22 won't compare well to others.
So, for 22MP medium format, the $7K-ish pricing already exists.
Steve Hendrix
But that 7ish price is with an older model body . . . like the afdIII right?
Whether it be Hasselblad or Phase, to get the newest body and even a cropped 1.26 sensor back puts you at about 14k.
Personally I'd place more emphasis on the camera and lenses first, the digital back second. An H-1 or a Contax kit can be had for 3.5 thousand and most used backs in the 22 mpx range are going for another 3.5k which really is 7ish.
The only issue with used is the warranty and repair thing, but when you think about it, insurance will cover more than most warranties and usually for less, especially since some of the makers have a minimum $2,500 repair, though most medium format backs are pretty reliable. Same with the cameras.
BC
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But that 7ish price is with an older model body . . . like the afdIII right?
Whether it be Hasselblad or Phase, to get the newest body and even a cropped 1.26 sensor back puts you at about 14k.
Personally I'd place more emphasis on the camera and lenses first, the digital back second. An H-1 or a Contax kit can be had for 3.5 thousand and most used backs in the 22 mpx range are going for another 3.5k which really is 7ish.
BC
I meant $7K-ish just for the back. Recently promoted (in August) with a DF (body-only) for $9,995.
Second that on the camera/lenses. Contax mounts are still available with all the digital back offerings, as far as I know. H2 also, for that matter. For the Phase One/Mamiya platform I would emphasize investing in the camera more than the lenses, if a near-term compromise is necessary. I'd rather shoot an older Mamiya 80/2.8 AF Lens on a DF body than a newer Phase One 80/2.8 D Lens on the AF body any day. But naturally, it depends on the type of work.
Steve Hendrix
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One small remark regarding Contax 645 versus Hasselblad H2. I had a Hasselblad H1 and a Contax 645. I ended up buying a digital back for the Hasselblad and sold my Contax 645. One of the reasons for doing so was that I found it a lot harder to find used or refurbished backs for the Contax 645. They also tended to be slightly more expensive. That being said, nothing but praise for the Contax 645, excellent camera.