Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: David Saffir on July 08, 2010, 06:35:09 pm
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I have posted a camera test/review of the Leica S2 on my blog. Here's the link. (http://davidsaffir.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/camera-test-the-leica-s2/)
David
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Thanks for sharing your experiences with us. I caught one small thing worth mentioning, if it's ok. I don't believe there are any true sixteen bit cameras made today. I think only the D3x and P65+ merit the fourteenth bit, but barely, and the rest might be dither bits. If you know of any special technology in the S2 that would yield more bits, I'll be interested in any information you've got.
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Hasselblad, Leaf, Phase, Mamiya, and Leica spec many of their cameras at 16 bits. On my Phase One back I can frequently see the difference in dynamic range. The Mamiya RZ 33 is also spec'd at "true 16 bit".
David
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First and for most, thanks for taking the time to do a testing and share it.
Some thoughts.
1) You pointed the DNG standard and C1. In my experience, C1 is not very friendly with DNG format, unless you want to do some mushrooms pop experiences (that can truly act as a crazy filter by the way, and it is interesting).
2) I know I know I know...that testing is not easy, that we can hesitate to bring very high definition pics on the web, that copyrights bla bla bla...
BUT, I really would like to see on those testings high resolutions imagery. At least a couple of pics.
It is like somebody is testing high-end audio and put the volume to 0,5.
I'm also aware that it is never very rewarded, but then who is gonna do it once for a while? It is like breaking the sound barrier.
I would spread the internet with 100% files and provide the Raw link on request. At least some crops that can not be used illegally if copyrights are a concern.
This is not aimed to you particularly but to internet in general.
Okay, I stay with the goodies of your testing, at least we don't have more brick walls and familly pics. Just a bit frustrating not having bigger images or high res crops.
Fred.
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well, now you've got me going.
I'm going to do some research on the 16 bit issue.
David
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"I would spread the internet with 100% files and provide the Raw link on request. At least some crops that can not be used illegally if copyrights are a concern.
This is not aimed to you particularly but to internet in general."
I'll consider it. I've had issues w/ copyright infringement...
David
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well, now you've got me going.
I'm going to do some research on the 16 bit issue.
While you are at it, you might want to also investigate the claims of Epson regarding the resolution of their flatbed scanners.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Hasselblad, Leaf, Phase, Mamiya, and Leica spec many of their cameras at 16 bits.
Indeed, they say 16 bits, never 16 stops; instead they say about 12 stops if they say anything at all about DR in stops, AFAIK. Bit depth is simply a statement how the signal is digitized and how the digitized signal is output, and only sets an upper limit on the DR of the signal going into the ADC. And spec sheets from Kodak and Dalsa and various MF back makers all agree on the roughly 12 stop (about 4000:1) DR limit in the proper engineering sense of DR, rather than in its misappropriated and vague usage as a measure of how much subject brightness range and exposure choice error the sensor can handle.
P. S. The Pentax K10D, along with some other Pentax and Samsung DSLRs, use a 22-bit analog to Ddigital converter: does that make these the all-time DR champions, with 6 stops more than any MF back? (Hint: no.)
http://www.pentaximaging.com/files/product/k10brochure.pdf (http://www.pentaximaging.com/files/product/k10brochure.pdf)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxk10d/ (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxk10d/)
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bit depth alone does not determine dynamic range.
David
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bit depth alone does not determine dynamic range.
David
I'm not an expert, but I don't see a causal connection at all. It is possible to build a 2-bit sensor with 12-stop DR - whether that makes sense is another matter.
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bit depth alone does not determine dynamic range.
David
Glad to see that we've abandoned the S2 infomercial and returned to our customary engineering programming material.
Edmund
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Glad to see that we've abandoned the S2 infomercial and returned to our customary engineering programming material.
Edmund
Let me take it back the Leica
Is Leica going to make any t/s lenses for their systems?
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Hi!
I'd say that you are wrong on that...
Best regards
Erik
I'm not an expert, but I don't see a causal connection at all. It is possible to build a 2-bit sensor with 12-stop DR - whether that makes sense is another matter.
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I haven'y heard anything yet about t/s lenses, but I'm not a Leica insider by any means - just a lowly camera tester.
btw, I have reviews of other M F systems posted on my blog.
I also expect to get a Hasselblad H4D-40 for testing in a week or two.
David
PS - my personal gear is a Hasselblad H w/ P25 back.
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Yes. They have a 30mm tilt shift in their list of future lenses. When we see it is another matter.
Nick
Let me take it back the Leica
Is Leica going to make any t/s lenses for their systems?
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Yes. They have a 30mm tilt shift in their list of future lenses. When we see it is another matter.
Nick
30 mm at that format would be like a 24 in 35 mm format being that it is somewhere in between DSLR full frame and MFD?
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Yes, 24 mm. The "crop factor" on the S2 is 0.8.
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Yes indeed. Makes it a very useful lens. I'm told there may be some further details at Photokina.
I just got the 35mm, finally. Sweet lens, doing some proper landscape work with it in a week or so. I hope to get the 180mm soon too.
30 mm at that format would be like a 24 in 35 mm format being that it is somewhere in between DSLR full frame and MFD?