Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Quentin on May 31, 2010, 06:35:58 am
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This seems to be almost a Hasselblad free forum, so I thought I post this to re-balance the mix
After some years with a Mamiya ZD and more recently, a Sony A900, I recently splashed out on a Hasselblad H4D-50, 120mm F/4 macro and 50mm F3.5 HC lenses. I'll need more lenses in due course but the initial outlay is quite enough to make my bank manager swoon, so I'll leave it there for a while.
Like many, I was critical of Hasselblad's closed system policy, but it does have some advantages, and the clincher for me - even though I have not yet purchased it - is the HTS 1.5 tilt-shift adapter.
In any event, I am enjoying my first uses of the Hasselblad. The dynamic range is impressive and it is possible to excavate information from the shadows that would look a mess with the ZD or A900. Similarly there is a lot of headroom in files. Phocus is OK software but it crashes intermittently on my Vista 64 bit i7 machine. Out of the box colour balance for flash and daylight is very good without a grey card.
True Focus, Hassy's latest feature, seems to be pretty effective and I have been using this continuously since acquiring the camera.
If anyone has a reasonably price 28mm lens, I'm interested!
There seems to be quite a shortage of H4D-50's and the H4D-60 appears to be unobtainable. However this means that Hassy can produce more H4D-40's and there are some deals going.
Here is a shot of my eldest Son Alex taken with the 120mm macro, with a little post processing applied.
Quentin
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Hi,
Great! Thanks for sharing information! I hope you enjoy the benefits of your investement.
Best regards
Erik Kaffehr
This seems to be almost a Hasselblad free forum, so I thought I post this to re-balance the mix
After some years with a Mamiya ZD and more recently, a Sony A900, I recently splashed out on a Hasselblad H4D-50, 120mm F/4 macro and 50mm F3.5 HC lenses. I'll need more lenses in due course but the initial outlay is quite enough to make my bank manager swoon, so I'll leave it there for a while.
Like many, I was critical of Hasselblad's closed system policy, but it does have some advantages, and the clincher for me - even though I have not yet purchased it - is the HTS 1.5 tilt-shift adapter.
In any event, I am enjoying my first uses of the Hasselblad. The dynamic range is impressive and it is possible to excavate information from the shadows that would look a mess with the ZD or A900. Similarly there is a lot of headroom in files. Phocus is OK software but it crashes intermittently on my Vista 64 bit i7 machine. Out of the box colour balance for flash and daylight is very good without a grey card.
True Focus, Hassy's latest feature, seems to be pretty effective and I have been using this continuously since acquiring the camera.
If anyone has a reasonably price 28mm lens, I'm interested!
There seems to be quite a shortage of H4D-50's and the H4D-60 appears to be unobtainable. However this means that Hassy can produce more H4D-40's and there are some deals going.
Here is a shot of my eldest Son Alex taken with the 120mm macro, with a little post processing applied.
Quentin
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Hi,
Great! Thanks for sharing information! I hope you enjoy the benefits of your investement.
Best regards
Erik Kaffehr
Erik, thanks
It is quite an investment, but I think it is worthwhile for leap in image quality, whcih is is significant, probably more so than I had hoped for.
I also hope a few more current or potential Hassy users will come out of the woodwork to add their comments or thoughts.
Quentin
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This seems to be almost a Hasselblad free forum, so I thought I post this to re-balance the mix
In any event, I am enjoying my first uses of the Hasselblad. The dynamic range is impressive and it is possible to excavate information from the shadows that would look a mess with the ZD or A900. Similarly there is a lot of headroom in files. Phocus is OK software but it crashes intermittently on my Vista 64 bit i7 machine. Out of the box colour balance for flash and daylight is very good without a grey card.
Quentin
Quentin, Phocus is the only serious drawback to this great system. You will find Phocus fans, for whom it seems to work, and the software does produce good images. For me, however, on a bog-standard W7, i7, Phocus is a constant, daily, grinding struggle. This is especially true with the back on a view or tech camera. I hope all of us will keep informing our Blad reps of the problems, so that corporate priority is fixed upon stability improvement.
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I've been using Phocus on an I7 Vista 64 platform for about one year. I've not yet had a crash. My computer was built for me by a mom & pop shop that I've been using for five years. We looked at the Hasselblad website to get a sense of the optimum requirements for running Phocus. That information determined the selection of video card and type of RAM. Phocus is video card intensive. I have no issue with Phocus 2.0. It's great for shooting tethered. Being able to adjust focus, f/stop, shutter, and set up processing parameters such as scene calibration and reproduction mode make it a real workflow champ for my type of shooting.
Like Quentin, I have a full frame Sony (A850). I've got to say that I'm as impressed with the Sony as Quentin is with the Blad. I find the dynamic range, color, and selection of Zeiss lenses to be way superior to Canon's offerings. Of course, the Sony gets pretty noisey beyond ISO 400.
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I've been using Phocus on an I7 Vista 64 platform for about one year. I've not yet had a crash. My computer was built for me by a mom & pop shop that I've been using for five years. We looked at the Hasselblad website to get a sense of the optimum requirements for running Phocus. That information determined the selection of video card and type of RAM. Phocus is video card intensive. I have no issue with Phocus 2.0. It's great for shooting tethered. Being able to adjust focus, f/stop, shutter, and set up processing parameters such as scene calibration and reproduction mode make it a real workflow champ for my type of shooting.
Like Quentin, I have a full frame Sony (A850). I've got to say that I'm as impressed with the Sony as Quentin is with the Blad. I find the dynamic range, color, and selection of Zeiss lenses to be way superior to Canon's offerings. Of course, the Sony gets pretty noisey beyond ISO 400.
Hi Bob,
Don't get me wrong, I love the A900 but its files, while excellent, are less malleable than the 'Blad files. As for Phocus, its OK, but quirky, but I agree, it works well for tethered shooting, which I do a lot of. The crashes are occasional, and don't happen during tethered shooting. More an irritation than a fatal flaw.
Still experimenting. I have not even removed the back yet...
Quentin
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Congrats Quentin!
Long wait? I'm still waiting for my H4D-40 since May 5th (You know, all the volcano issues)
Have you tried to proccess your files in Aperture 3? H4D-40 files are not supported, but H4D-50 are, It would be interenting to see how Aperture process those files (Right now I'm not a big fan of Phocus but I'm trying to like it).
Thanks to the delay on my order I was able to get the H4D-40 + 35-90mm promo for $19,995. I also got the 210mm and the 100mm + extension tube. I was going to get the 120mm but I found this (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15817&highlight=hasselblad+120mm) post in getdpi forum about the 120mm vs 100mm + extension tubes on macro shots. I got the 100mm + extension tube to have portrait (natural light) + macro capabilities, but I'm also realizing that the 120mm can produce extremely sharp portraits. What I don't like is the size and weight of the 120mm and slow focus. As soon as I get the gear I will post raw examples of the 35-90mm and comparisions vs nikon files since I couldn't found any.
Enjoy your new eyes!
Aldo M.
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Cristal! Congratulations
Eduardo
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Congrats Quentin!
Long wait? I'm still waiting for my H4D-40 since May 5th (You know, all the volcano issues)
Have you tried to proccess your files in Aperture 3? H4D-40 files are not supported, but H4D-50 are, It would be interenting to see how Aperture process those files (Right now I'm not a big fan of Phocus but I'm trying to like it).
Thanks to the delay on my order I was able to get the H4D-40 + 35-90mm promo for $19,995. I also got the 210mm and the 100mm + extension tube. I was going to get the 120mm but I found this (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15817&highlight=hasselblad+120mm) post in getdpi forum about the 120mm vs 100mm + extension tubes on macro shots. I got the 100mm + extension tube to have portrait (natural light) + macro capabilities, but I'm also realizing that the 120mm can produce extremely sharp portraits. What I don't like is the size and weight of the 120mm and slow focus. As soon as I get the gear I will post raw examples of the 35-90mm and comparisions vs nikon files since I couldn't found any.
Enjoy your new eyes!
Aldo M.
Aldo,
Sorry to hear of your delay. I was told the H4D-40 was unaffected by the parts shortage (presumably, the chip) that affected my H4D-50.
I am on a PC, so no Aperture, I am afraid...
As for the 120mm Macro, its a good portrait lens and also great as a single solution for product / food photography. I am finding focus very accurate. On the portrait of my son at full size, for example, only his left eye is in absolute sharp focus, which is where I focused, using true focus assigned to the shutter release button, then recomposed to take the shot. In this case the relatively slow focus was not an issue. Accuracy is what really counts with any macro lens, and the 120mm seems to deliver.
Maybe I should have purchased the 35-90mm zoom which gets great reviews, but the 50mm is fine and a tad faster. Also I like being free of zooms with medium format. Its oddly liberating
Cheers
Quentin
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The HC 120 macro is a terrific lens. I've been using it for fine art repro and find that it's about as good if not as good as the 72mm Schneider Digitar that I also use for repro. The auto focus is slow, very slow, but it is deadly accurate. This lens exhibits no linear distortion and CA. I'll be curious to hear what you think of the 50mm. I've considered purchasing that lens from time to time.
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The HC 120 macro is a terrific lens. I've been using it for fine art repro and find that it's about as good if not as good as the 72mm Schneider Digitar that I also use for repro. The auto focus is slow, very slow, but it is deadly accurate. This lens exhibits no linear distortion and CA. I'll be curious to hear what you think of the 50mm. I've considered purchasing that lens from time to time.
Bob as an FYI did you know you can set the 120 to only focus across a certain range... It's a custom option from memory..
Nick-T
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Quentin,
afaik Hasselblad files are supported in the newest Adobe Camera Raw (version 6.1 at the moment) - this very RAW engine is also built in into Lightroom 3 Beta. Its gotten way better than the old ACR also.
Why not give the beta a short whirl? I might fit better for you and it costs you nothing right now to test. Supposed you have an Adobe ID (which costs nothing) you can download it from Adobes Lab website.
All the best & much fun with your new tool!
Andy
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Quentin,
I'd suggest that there are many here on LuLa who would be interested in comparing MFDB and full frame DSLR, if you would be able to give us a couple of well made comparison shots, preferably in "raw" I guess it would be much appreciated. I also guess that whenever you do something like that someone will say it was done in the exactly wrong way.
Best regards
Erik
Erik, thanks
It is quite an investment, but I think it is worthwhile for leap in image quality, whcih is is significant, probably more so than I had hoped for.
I also hope a few more current or potential Hassy users will come out of the woodwork to add their comments or thoughts.
Quentin
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Bob as an FYI did you know you can set the 120 to only focus across a certain range... It's a custom option from memory..
Nick-T
Indeed I do know this. Still, the lens is slow from an AF standpoint.
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Quentin,
I'd suggest that there are many here on LuLa who would be interested in comparing MFDB and full frame DSLR, if you would be able to give us a couple of well made comparison shots, preferably in "raw" I guess it would be much appreciated. I also guess that whenever you do something like that someone will say it was done in the exactly wrong way.
Best regards
Erik
I hope you don't Quentin,
We have fallen off that cliff many times. MF is better quality than 35mm digital in most cases. The question is will it earn the photographer more to justify the cost and improve your bank balance, no amount of on screen pixel analysis will give that answer.
If you do not find it necessary to demo a MF and shoot with it I doubt you need it.
Kevin.
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Same here, not interested in comparisons. I am interested in your experiences with the H4D50 though.
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A few weeks ago I held in my hands the final product of over two years of work: A photo book of just over 200 images. Not enough images for all the work in the field and much more in front of a computer screen.
What does this have to do with the Hasselblad? Because I didn't use a Medium Format camera and wish I had. I was not pleased with color and sharpness, even after using all the proper techniques; well, most of the time. There were situations where I just didn't have the right settings and no camera can alert me to not thinking.
Of course two years ago, there were not as many options as there are now. The client was pleased and from what I was told, "Went on and on about how wonderful it was." Next time, if I am granted another similar project, I want to produce better images; files that I don't have to work on so much to produce high quality photographs that can be enlarged.
I will make a purchase only if I get another project. I've looked at the Hasselblad, Phase One, and the Leica S2. The S2 has appeal in many areas, but a lack of lens options, for now. Phase One just does not inspire me, not sure why. So, it's between the Hasselblad and the Leica.
The Hasselblad shows the H4D being hand held by a pro who uses the H4D with ease; it's a five pound camera. Did you find that it could be hand held for a few hours? If so, then I need to start lifting weights!
From what I read, the files from the H4D can be opened in Lightroom, or am I confused? If that's true, then the nice lens correction features of Phocus would not be available. Could the files be opened in phocus, converted to TIFF files that could then imported into Lightroom? I need LR to keep track of the project images.
Why do you think the battery life is so poor? While I can carry more batteries, it would be nice to see some improvement in this area.
I too like the the tilt/shift feature mechanism and that is a big reason I am considering this system.
I downloaded sample images from the Hasselblad site and I was impressed; RAW files that needed no correction; just perfect. Is this typical? Of course the lighting was perfect, so it was a staged shot, but still, just amazing to see such wonderful color and resolution.
My primary concern about going to a Medium Format systems is this: Am I good enough? Do my skills and talent match a camera that can produce fantastic quality? A sharp image with perfect color and high resolution of a scene that is not composed properly and with bad light is still not a photograph. This is something I need to give serious thought to.
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A few weeks ago I held in my hands the final product of over two years of work: A photo book of just over 200 images...
What does this have to do with the Hasselblad? Because I didn't use a Medium Format camera and wish I had. I was not pleased with color and sharpness, even after using all the proper techniques; well, most of the time. There were situations where I just didn't have the right settings and no camera can alert me to not thinking.
I use Canon 1D bodies, I love everything about them. I do however, long for the imaging characteristics of MFD but somehow I have been able to keep my inner perfectionism from destroying me financially. If you're not shooting in the studio you will probably always want to reshoot, it is tough to get everything right on location. You can shoot for money or shoot for yourself, just make sure you understand what your doing. 35mm is paying the bills just fine right now and many big names are using 5D's and 1D's to great effect. The photography field is full of people who will sacrifice everything to get the visions and images in their mind onto the page. I guess I was never that insane...
When MFD makes a camera that we all want then I will buy. I thought it was the Lecia S2, nope, then the Pentax, nope, the new 80mp? Nah... still waiting for 5 year old 35mm tech to show up in MFD's playground.
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When MFD makes a camera that we all want then I will buy. I thought it was the Lecia S2, nope, then the Pentax, nope, the new 80mp? Nah... still waiting for 5 year old 35mm tech to show up in MFD's playground.
I agree totally , I will never throw 20 000 euros for a camera which is not what I want, and what I want is very simple ....
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When MFD makes a camera that we all want then I will buy. I thought it was the Lecia S2, nope, then the Pentax, nope, the new 80mp? Nah... still waiting for 5 year old 35mm tech to show up in MFD's playground.
Still waiting for 8 year old image quality tech to show up in 35mm dSLR's playground :).
Ever compare the image possible with a Phase One H25 (2003) to a 5D Mark 2?
Don't get me wrong - higher ISO, Image Stabalization, less physical weight, faster burst speeds, bigger/better LCDs - these are things that EVERY person wants in a MFD system, and I think we'll see some/most of these in the next several years. But the point remains - you cannot get 2003(MFD) image quality with 2010(35mm).
- from Russia with love
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Ok...but instead of the pixel race, wich seems to be the main flag in the mfd brands, why not a light super fast and cheaper 20ish mp gear in the catalog designed for commercial photographers who more and more are living the ship for Canon?
Having the surface of a big sensor with the advantages of speed+really studdied design and live view and why not finally video capabilities when sensors will be available could be very succesful.
There are many who do not want/need 80MP.
About your comparaison, if you are talking about reaching huge enlargements for art gallery, I would not hesitate to put any Hassy or Phase in front of any dslr to date, but if you are talking about a double page magazine in studio and most edito applications I will go for the 5D with the same "no hesitation".
Nobody is proposing anything new we could not predict. Come on MFD guys, be wilder!
but HOW to explain that to Hasselblad ? , that pixels race sucks , we are many waiting for a FF Hasselblad with 30mp maximum and a normal XXI century digital body
they don't care
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edit
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Still waiting for 8 year old image quality tech to show up in 35mm dSLR's playground :). Ever compare the image possible with a Phase One H25 (2003) to a 5D Mark 2?
Doug,
Acutally I have. Very good test here:
http://www.akelstudio.com/blog/hasselblad-h4d-50-against-canon-1ds-markiii-what-do-we-get-for-the-money/
I see some very good reasons to own Hasselblad, I also see some very compelling reasons to stay with my 1D. MFD is not a free pass to imagine quality gains... well after you write the check (bcooter expression) that is. Anyway we all know it... MFD is better... but who cares? I'm not paying for it and neither are my clients.
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yes, they don't, instead of that they released the silly Ferrari stuff. Totally redneck! Hope Phase will not release tomorrow the BMW serie with the claim "do you like taking pictures?"
Fred,
It is absolutely not silly from a business perspective.
The special edition, doesn't involve too much R&D time (although Ferrari are very specific about 'Red'!), will sell almost immediately the 499 run, and give an increased revenue. Also these 499 cameras will most likely goto people who probably would not have bought an H4D40 beforehand.
Therefore we have increased sales by 400+ units in an instant. Therefore more income, more profit, more R&D revenue.
I agree it is not to everyone's taste, but it does no harm overall.
As for 30MP full frame units, there is always a discussion around this.
We buy the sensors that Kodak and Dalsa supply. We can push them this way and that to some extent. But essentially we are limited to what they produce.
David
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Fred,
It is absolutely not silly from a business perspective.
The special edition, doesn't involve too much R&D time (although Ferrari are very specific about 'Red'!), will sell almost immediately the 499 run, and give an increased revenue. Also these 499 cameras will most likely goto people who probably would not have bought an H4D40 beforehand.
Therefore we have increased sales by 400+ units in an instant. Therefore more income, more profit, more R&D revenue.
David
In my opinion, anything that don't destroy the brand and increase volume you be encouraged by users. We keep asking for features without compromising image quality. An also good price points. Implementing them is expensive and the sales of MF cameras are not that big (compared to 35mm DSLR). So kudos to hasselblad for the special edition.
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It is absolutely not silly from a business perspective. The special edition, doesn't involve too much R&D time (although Ferrari are very specific about 'Red'!), will sell almost immediately the 499 run, and give an increased revenue.
That is good to know. What I like about Hasselblad is its all business reputation... not a boutique brand like Leica. Hasselblad is the brand I want to own when I move to MFD (for personal work) and was shocked at first to see them pull a move out of Leica's playbook. I want you guys to be in business when I am ready to buy, I just hope you're the same company when I do.