Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Ken on March 09, 2010, 03:06:19 pm
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Have you tried Epson's "Advanced B&W Printing" mode on the *900 printer? If so, what is your experience with it... tips, caveats, recommendations ?
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Have you tried Epson's "Advanced B&W Printing" mode on the *900 printer? If so, what is your experience with it... tips, caveats, recommendations ?
The Advanced Black and White mode on all Epson printers is one of the best and easiest ways to print high quality B/W prints.
Start with a B/W file and set in the Print dialogue :
Color Handling :Photoshop Manages Colors
Printer Profile:sRGB IEC61966-2.1
Rendering Intent:Relative Colorimetric
In the Advanced Color Settings
Tone: Dark
Brightness:0
Contrast:+2
Shadow Tonality:+10
Highlight Tonality:+5
just to have a starting point with the majority of the epson papers
George
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The Advanced Black and White mode on all Epson printers is the best way to print high quality B/W prints.
Well...it is a way, yes, and does a decent job, but it has a long way to go before it's the best way to print a b/w.
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Well...it is a way, yes, and does a decent job, but it has a long way to go before it's the best way to print a b/w.
Please be more specific
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The Advanced Black and White mode on all Epson printers is the best way to print high quality B/W prints.
...
Well, without getting into the relative merits of the wet processes, I'd just like to comment that there are inkjet B&W workflows that some of us think are better and cheaper than the OEM approaches.
Some of us believe that using more than 3 gray inks delivers a smoother print.
I don't like color dots in my prints. In fact, I don't like any color inks at all in my prints, whether they are separate dots or blended with carbon in a relatively neutral ink. The color pigs are going to fade much faster and at different rates, causing tone shifts. http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ (http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/) is now the best third party, independent testing company. Looking at comparable recent tests at the 30 MLux-Hr stage of testing, the 100% carbon 50% gray samples had half of less the delta-e of the OEM (ABW & HP) samples. See my summary at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/AaI-30MLuxHr.jpg (http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/AaI-30MLuxHr.jpg)
Color inks in the B&W image are also going to cause metamerism.
There are B&W printing approaches that are far less expensive than the OEM inks. Some of us now mix our own dilute inks, which are always mostly water. This makes the inks so inexpensive the prices become irrelevant. See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf (http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf) Yes, the most lighfast can be close to free. (Now if I could only find a way to do that with paper ...)
Enough said. OEM workflows are fine. However, some of us do prefer the road less traveled and for some good reasons. You'll find a lot of us at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Digital...dWhiteThePrint/ (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/)
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/ (http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/)
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Please be more specific
There are third-party RIPs (Raster Image Processors) such as QuadToneRIP and Imageprint which use the standard Epson inkset to print b/w. A RIP bypasses the standard printer software and controls the printer itself. Both of these, in my unscientific evaluations produced better gradation and better shadow detail that ABW. QTR is $50 shareware, Imageprint starts at $500 for 13" printers, $900 for 17" printers and substantially more for the larger formats. When using the Epson k3 inks (or, IMHO, any inkset), nothing is better at producing b/w's than Imageprint. There is no metamerism that I have ever seen.
QTR also has the benefit of using the Cone b/w inkset, which is used in place of the standard Epson inks. Some swear by the results, but side by side tests I've seen comparing with Imageprint have been inconclusive.
Don't get me wrong, ABW is the best b/w module from any printer manufacturer, and it does a helluva lot better than previous Epson software, but it's just not yet up to the level of other options.
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Don't get me wrong, ABW is the best b/w module from any printer manufacturer ...
I doubt that. HP Z-series printers produce quadtone b&w prints out of the box.
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I doubt that. HP Z-series printers produce quadtone b&w prints out of the box.
It's better because it uses four inks instead of three? As Colorbyte and Roy Harrington have shown us, software plays as important, if not a more important, a role than does the number of black inks. My old 2200 with 2 black inks could produce better grayscale prints using Imageprint than either HP or Epson can print right now, and that printer is now three generations old. I've seen side by side comparisons between Epson and HP, and still think Epson's ABW is a bit better.
Regardless, neither Epson nor HP can produce the same level of b/w quality than can be obtained from third-party software and/or dedicated ink sets...and that is a shame.
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It's better because it uses four inks instead of three? As Colorbyte and Roy Harrington have shown us, software plays as important, if not a more important, a role than does the number of black inks. My old 2200 with 2 black inks could produce better grayscale prints using Imageprint than either HP or Epson can print right now, and that printer is now three generations old. I've seen side by side comparisons between Epson and HP, and still think Epson's ABW is a bit better.
Regardless, neither Epson nor HP can produce the same level of b/w quality than can be obtained from third-party software and/or dedicated ink sets...and that is a shame.
For the Z3100. It is better compared to Epson ABW that it uses ONLY 4 grey inks in some media presets AND the integrated calibration tools create true linearity on the B&W tone range. The Dmax is also first class. This all + the use of QTR's B&W profile creation gives it in practice the same quality a quad custom set + QTR would bring. Epson's ABW is still using color inks in its mixes, much less than in Color mode but not absent. HP B&W mode still has the use of B&W color toning aboard but doesn't use it in its default neutral state.
That said, a custom quad set with smaller droplets or a B&W inkset of 6-7 iinks driven by QTR will beat HP output.
met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla
Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
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Well, without getting into the relative merits of the wet processes, I'd just like to comment that there are inkjet B&W workflows that some of us think are better and cheaper than the OEM approaches.
Some of us believe that using more than 3 gray inks delivers a smoother print.
I don't like color dots in my prints. In fact, I don't like any color inks at all in my prints, whether they are separate dots or blended with carbon in a relatively neutral ink. The color pigs are going to fade much faster and at different rates, causing tone shifts. http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ (http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/) is now the best third party, independent testing company. Looking at comparable recent tests at the 30 MLux-Hr stage of testing, the 100% carbon 50% gray samples had half of less the delta-e of the OEM (ABW & HP) samples. See my summary at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/AaI-30MLuxHr.jpg (http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/AaI-30MLuxHr.jpg)
Color inks in the B&W image are also going to cause metamerism.
There are B&W printing approaches that are far less expensive than the OEM inks. Some of us now mix our own dilute inks, which are always mostly water. This makes the inks so inexpensive the prices become irrelevant. See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf (http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf) Yes, the most lighfast can be close to free. (Now if I could only find a way to do that with paper ...)
Enough said. OEM workflows are fine. However, some of us do prefer the road less traveled and for some good reasons. You'll find a lot of us at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Digital...dWhiteThePrint/ (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/)
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/ (http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/)
Dear Paul
I was too absolute saying "the best way..." instead of "one of the best ways" but I want to add some of my thoughts.
I like very much the possibility to add some hue to my BW prints as an "analogue printer" that I am since 1980.I can easily print an inkjet print that is very similar to my favorite paper ILFORD FB WARM for example.I don't know if I can do exactly the same without the help of some colors.It doesn't matter for me if a few years later the photo is not exactly the same:I can print an other one if necessary. I want an excellent print at that moment even if it lasts less and if I have to pay for it more.
I have never worked with a RIP because I was not convinced -from a lot I have read in the net- that it is a better solution than Epson's ABW driver and I want some comments if someone has personal experience from both methods.I try to find a way in digital printing the last 3-4 years and I am open to everything can give me more quality.I use an R2800, a 4800 and a 9900 printers with Epson inks and drivers
Thank you
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The Advanced Black and White mode on all Epson printers is the best way to print high quality B/W prints.
Start with a B/W file and set in the Print dialogue :
Color Handling :Photoshop Manages Colors
Printer Profile:sRGB IEC61966-2.1
Rendering Intent:Relative Colorimetric
In the Advanced Color Settings
Tone: Dark
Brightness:0
Contrast:+2
Shadow Tonality:+10
Highlight Tonality:+5
just to have a starting point with the majority of the epson papers
George
I thought when you print with ABW you were supposed to choose "No color Management" in Photoshop.
Page 54 of the US 3880 manual says to make sure you don't use PS color management because there are no profiles associated with ABW printing.
I also don't think it's absolutely necessary to start with a B/W file. Any file will work.
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I thought when you print with ABW you were supposed to choose "No color Management" in Photoshop.
Page 54 of the US 3880 manual says to make sure you don't use PS color management because there are no profiles associated with ABW printing.
This is the method that Eric Chan advocates when you do not have a special ABW profile for you Epson printer. See his website (http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/printworkflow.html) for details. Eric's profiles improve the linearity of these printers. I find that Epson prints from scanned negatives are extremely close in tonal quality and Dmax to silver gelatin prints.
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This is the method that Eric Chan advocates when you do not have a special ABW profile for you Epson printer. See his website (http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/printworkflow.html) for details. Eric's profiles improve the linearity of these printers. I find that Epson prints from scanned negatives are extremely close in tonal quality and Dmax to silver gelatin prints.
Exactly!
Have you any experience printing from a RIP like IMAGEPRINT?
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Exactly!
Have you any experience printing from a RIP like IMAGEPRINT?
No, I just use the profile that Eric created for me with his workflow. I'm extremely satisfied with the results.
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Exactly!
Have you any experience printing from a RIP like IMAGEPRINT?
Take a look at this thread:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=42143 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=42143)
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Take a look at this thread:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=42143 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=42143)
Thanks so much...
George