Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: ScottDavis on December 02, 2009, 09:48:50 am
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Hello Color Management Gurus,
I am trying to get my Canon 9500 Mark II profiled correctly using a ColorMunki Photo, and have a few questions for someone a lot smarter than me :-)
I have read through numerous posts, googled for answers, been on the phone with both X-Rite, and Canon, and nobody seems to know the answer.
My setup is as follows: ColorMunki with version 1.1.1 running on a MacPro that is running Snow Leopard version 10.6.2, Canon Printer Driver version 10.26.0.0 for a Canon Pixma Pro 9500 mark II.
I understand that I need to turn color management off in the print driver in order to get an accurate profile, but where/how do we do that.? When accessing the print dialog box through Color Munki's software, the only choices in the Color Matching drop down are Colorsync, and Canon Color Matching? If I choose ColorSync, you are forced to choose a profile?
So, if this is the correct choice, which profile should I choose? Since I am using ProPhoto RGB as my default colorspace, is that the correct choice, or should it be good old Adobe RGB? If I choose Canon Color Matching, doesn't that in effect cause the printer to modify/adjust the profile to its liking?
I got conflicting info from the "experts" from both ColorMunki, and Canon on this issue BTW, as well as a lot of finger pointing. It appears that nobody from either company knows the first thing about their own software, and how to use it? According to the folks at ColorMunki, there is NO WAY to print the test targets outside of their software for the ColorMunki, so that doesn't seem to be an option either?
Thanks for you help on this,
Scott Davis
Viz-it, LLC
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I have done some short experimenting with the Colormunki of a friend. I had more or less the same problem as you descibed but with a Epsonprinter. However the Epsondriver has the same Colormatching dialoque as the Canon.
The right way for me was to choose for 'Epson color controls' and not Colorsync! So I suppose that you should choose for "Canon Color Matching".
Since recently I have a 'Spyder 3 Studio' from Datacolor. Same approach. If I print the targets from within the Spyder I have to choose in the Colormatching dialoque for 'Epson color controls'.
Ton
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Hello Color Management Gurus,
I am trying to get my Canon 9500 Mark II profiled correctly using a ColorMunki Photo, and have a few questions for someone a lot smarter than me :-)
I have read through numerous posts, googled for answers, been on the phone with both X-Rite, and Canon, and nobody seems to know the answer.
My setup is as follows: ColorMunki with version 1.1.1 running on a MacPro that is running Snow Leopard version 10.6.2, Canon Printer Driver version 10.26.0.0 for a Canon Pixma Pro 9500 mark II.
I understand that I need to turn color management off in the print driver in order to get an accurate profile, but where/how do we do that.? When accessing the print dialog box through Color Munki's software, the only choices in the Color Matching drop down are Colorsync, and Canon Color Matching? If I choose ColorSync, you are forced to choose a profile?
So, if this is the correct choice, which profile should I choose? Since I am using ProPhoto RGB as my default colorspace, is that the correct choice, or should it be good old Adobe RGB? If I choose Canon Color Matching, doesn't that in effect cause the printer to modify/adjust the profile to its liking?
I got conflicting info from the "experts" from both ColorMunki, and Canon on this issue BTW, as well as a lot of finger pointing. It appears that nobody from either company knows the first thing about their own software, and how to use it? According to the folks at ColorMunki, there is NO WAY to print the test targets outside of their software for the ColorMunki, so that doesn't seem to be an option either?
Thanks for you help on this,
Scott Davis
Viz-it, LLC
If Color Munki allows for Canon Color Matching you should have a selection in the driver for No Correction. Since the iPF series drivers work correctly in this scenario I can not see why the Canon Pixma Pro 9500 mark II drivers would not.
Can you post screen captures of the driver setup especially under Main?
Doyle
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If Color Munki allows for Canon Color Matching you should have a selection in the driver for No Correction. Since the iPF series drivers work correctly in this scenario I can not see why the Canon Pixma Pro 9500 mark II drivers would not.
Can you post screen captures of the driver setup especially under Main?
Doyle
Here are screen caps. Some of the confusion seems to be that canon's driver uses different terms than most?
[attachment=18307:colormunki1.jpg]
[attachment=18308:colormunki2.jpg]
[attachment=18309:colormunki3.jpg]
Thanks,
Scott
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Here are screen caps. Some of the confusion seems to be that canon's driver uses different terms than most?
Thanks,
Scott
Instead of Color Options is there a Main screen in the driver dialog?
Main
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Scott
In your advance guide http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controll...#ModelDetailAct (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=182&modelid=18123#ModelDetailAct)
This is what you should be looking at.
Advanced Guide > Printing from a Computer > Printing with Other Application Software > Changing the Print Quality and Correcting Image Data > Specifying Color Correction > Printing with ICC Profiles (Specifying an ICC Profile from the Application Software)
Doyle
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Instead of Color Options is there a Main screen in the driver dialog?
Main
There is no main screen
Just the screens that I posted.
Scott
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Scott
In your advance guide http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controll...#ModelDetailAct (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=182&modelid=18123#ModelDetailAct)
This is what you should be looking at.
Advanced Guide > Printing from a Computer > Printing with Other Application Software > Changing the Print Quality and Correcting Image Data > Specifying Color Correction > Printing with ICC Profiles (Specifying an ICC Profile from the Application Software)
Doyle
Doyle,
Thanks for the help. I have read and re-read those help files, but it STILL doesn't tell me how to turn Color Management Off for third party apps, or which profile to use. From What I can see there is no way to do this.
Scott
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Hi Scott.
I have a Canon Pro9000, although I have no experience with the ColorMunki.
So my suggestion may not work but here's something you can try.
What you need to ensure is that ALL colour management is turned off when printing targets for profiling.
So, choose 'Canon Color Matching' in the ColorMunki software (this should stop the ColorMunki software from trying to colour manage). Then, when the printer dialogue opens up select 'Color Options' from the drop-down list. In the dialogue box look for 'Color Correction:' and then select "None:" from the list (this should turn off any colour management in the printer).
If luck favours you this should allow you to print accurate targets !
I hope this helps.
Simon
P.S. Without wishing to add to your woes you should also take a look at the 'WillytheWalks' posting on this page
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....39615&st=40 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=39615&st=40)
You may be better off trying to profile your printer using a Windows machine instead.
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Doyle,
Thanks for the help. I have read and re-read those help files, but it STILL doesn't tell me how to turn Color Management Off for third party apps, or which profile to use. From What I can see there is no way to do this.
Scott
If I am reading it correctly, you want in Color Matching to choose ColorSync and Automatic then in Color Options/Color Correction: None.
Doyle
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If I am reading it correctly, you want in Color Matching to choose ColorSync and Automatic then in Color Options/Color Correction: None.
Doyle
Doyle,
Thanks for that info, and I went back a read the entire Willy post as well. I would gladly set color options/color correction to none if I had that option?
[attachment=18332:MunkiOnMyBack.jpg]
But sadly, I don't see it.
Since the problem, for me anyways, seems to be choosing ColorSync, and then Colorsync assigning a profile to the ColorMunki targets, I wonder if there is a way to get around the double profiling/ColorSync forcing a profile, by creating a profile that passes the raw info straight through without in color changes. In essence a "null" profile? Course maybe the thing to do is ditch the Munki for a calibration tool that allows me to print targets from Photoshop, or Lightroom, where I can turn the dang management off.
Curse you developers for killing USB connectivity from my older management tool in SL, and starting me down this rabbit hole
Thanks for all your help on this!
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Doyle,
Thanks for that info, and I went back a read the entire Willy post as well. I would gladly set color options/color correction to none if I had that option?
But sadly, I don't see it.
Since the problem, for me anyways, seems to be choosing ColorSync, and then Colorsync assigning a profile to the ColorMunki targets, I wonder if there is a way to get around the double profiling/ColorSync forcing a profile, by creating a profile that passes the raw info straight through without in color changes. In essence a "null" profile? Course maybe the thing to do is ditch the Munki for a calibration tool that allows me to print targets from Photoshop, or Lightroom, where I can turn the dang management off.
Curse you developers for killing USB connectivity from my older management tool in SL, and starting me down this rabbit hole
Thanks for all your help on this!
So where does ColorSync assign a profile since in the Color Options panel it defaults to Standard? Or are you saying you cannot make a choice in Color Matching either?
Does the driver behave similarly when printing from other software?
In Lightroom you cannot turn color management off.
Doyle
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Hi Scott.
Does ColorMunki have separate files containing the colour patches for printing ? Or can you generate these in some way from the software ? Or does X-Rite have these available as a download ?
If you can get the colour-patch target files separately you could open them in a version of Photoshop prior to CS3 and print them out without colour management. Then scan them in the usual way using the ColorMunki spectrophotometer.
I am not sure exactly how the ColorMunki software works, so it may not allow you to do this ?
Just a thought.
Good luck !
Simon
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Hi Scott.
Does ColorMunki have separate files containing the colour patches for printing ? Or can you generate these in some way from the software ? Or does X-Rite have these available as a download ?
If you can get the colour-patch target files separately you could open them in a version of Photoshop prior to CS3 and print them out without colour management. Then scan them in the usual way using the ColorMunki spectrophotometer.
I am not sure exactly how the ColorMunki software works, so it may not allow you to do this ?
Just a thought.
Good luck !
Simon
It won't work. ColorMunki produces a first set of standard colors that are read and then depending on the differences, generates a second set that is paper and printer dependent. I just took a quick look at the ColorMunki files on my computer and it wasn't evident where the target colors are (they may be in a file that has to be printed out by the program and not just a jpg or tiff file). Even if there was a single target file that you could open without printing, ColorMunki generates a second (and possibly third set if needed) that you have to print out and read to optimize the profile.
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It won't work. ColorMunki produces a first set of standard colors that are read and then depending on the differences, generates a second set that is paper and printer dependent. I just took a quick look at the ColorMunki files on my computer and it wasn't evident where the target colors are (they may be in a file that has to be printed out by the program and not just a jpg or tiff file). Even if there was a single target file that you could open without printing, ColorMunki generates a second (and possibly third set if needed) that you have to print out and read to optimize the profile.
ROTFL, it would appear that Apple has done just about everything they could to kill the ColorMunki dead. I really wonder what Apple gains in the end from this prima-donna "Drop dead at my feet, Slave" behavior which Apple manifests towards developers. On the other hand, I guess watching other programmers squirm because "they're too dumb to get our way of doing things" is irresistibly entertaining to programming geeks who specify an API.
Xrite don't quite deserve this degree of cruelty.
On a helpful note, there might be some workarounds by printing to file somehow (use Preview) and then apply the Eric Chan workaround to print that file.
Edmund
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ROTFL, it would appear that Apple has done just about everything they could to kill the ColorMunki dead. I really wonder what Apple gains in the end from this prima-donna "Drop dead at my feet, Slave" behavior which Apple manifests towards developers. On the other hand, I guess watching other programmers squirm because "they're too dumb to get our way of doing things" is irresistibly entertaining to programming geeks who specify an API.
Xrite don't quite deserve this degree of cruelty.
On a helpful note, there might be some workarounds by printing to file somehow (use Preview) and then apply the Eric Chan workaround to print that file.
Edmund
Think about it for once. What do want Apple to do? Screw around with code so ColorMunki works correctly? And then what about all the applications and drivers that do work correctly now? Do you expect them to rewrite their code to once again conform. At this point do we even know wether the problem lies with ColorMunki, the printer drivers or PEBCAK.
I can tell you with Eye-One Match that you can choose in the driver under Color Matching, Vendor Matching and then under Main, No Correction.
You really need to reconsider the cart before the horse mentality you are exhibiting here. It serves no useful purpose.
Doyle
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Think about it for once. What do want Apple to do? Screw around with code so ColorMunki works correctly? And then what about all the applications and drivers that do work correctly now? Do you expect them to rewrite their code to once again conform. At this point do we even know wether the problem lies with ColorMunki, the printer drivers or PEBCAK.
I can tell you with Eye-One Match that you can choose in the driver under Color Matching, Vendor Matching and then under Main, No Correction.
You really need to reconsider the cart before the horse mentality you are exhibiting here. It serves no useful purpose.
Doyle
Just for the heck of it I installed ColormunkiPhoto_1-1-1 software in 10.6.2. While I cannot activate ColorMunki Photo I can run Photo ColorPicker. In the print dialog from Photo ColorPicker I can choose Vendor Matching under Color matching and No Correction under Main. This would leave to believe that it is the printer drivers or PEBCAK.
I suppose that there could be a chance that ColorMunki Photo is coded different then Photo ColorPicker and forces the driver to No CM and the driver is not responding correctly.
But xrite does need to get their shyte together as I noticed the latest version 3.6.3 of Eye-One Match updated for SL is still PowerPC code. ROTFL!
Doyle
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Scott -
This is a problem many run into. I have an article on my blog that explains this step by step, although a somewhat general point of view. Here's the link: http://tinyurl.com/od77xh (http://tinyurl.com/od77xh)
Best regards,
David Saffir
http://davidsaffir.wordpress.com (http://davidsaffir.wordpress.com)
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Here is a interesting thread describing how to set no CM in the smaller Canon printer drivers.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=34105159 (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=34105159)
Doyle
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Here is a interesting thread describing how to set no CM in the smaller Canon printer drivers.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=34105159 (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=34105159)
Doyle
Bless you for this. Seriously. This has been one of the great mysteries of Canon Printerland. I'm printing out a target right now.
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Good to know about the Generic RGB.
I was about to buy the ColorMunki. Should I consider EyeOne instead? I'm using an Epson 4880 printer with a Mac laptop. I am also stumbling through PSCR4. Lots for me to digest. Reading along with you helps me a lot. Thanks.
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This is a problem many run into. I have an article on my blog that explains this step by step, although a somewhat general point of view. Here's the link: http://tinyurl.com/od77xh (http://tinyurl.com/od77xh)
There’s a number of points I find a bit iffy in terms of best practices and correct in terms of color management in that post if you don’t mind me saying... At least in terms of color temp, luminance and gamma.
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Any reason why Boot Camping into Windows, building the profiles and using them on the Snow Leopard side wouldn't work?