Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Murray Fredericks on August 28, 2009, 07:50:22 pm
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I am considering using a P65+ back alongside my Sinar 75LV in a situation where temperatures are expected to sit around -15 degrees and below for some weeks. Has anyone used these backs for extended periods in such conditions?
Were there any issues with the equipment?
Murray
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I've used my Sinar 54LV in -15'C without problems. (That's a normal winter temperature here)
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I've used my Sinar 54LV in -15'C without problems. (That's a normal winter temperature here)
Has it been outside for a long time - say for days or at least long enough for the core of the system to drop to those temps?
And yes - I hear you laughing about what I call extreme cold. I will be operating at -15 to -25...
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Has it been outside for a long time - say for days or at least long enough for the core of the system to drop to those temps?
Probably an hour or two at most. I thnk the general advice for all backs is to keep the battery warm, and to be careful about condensation when taking the back indoors again.
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Hi Murray,
I've always wondered how you charge your batteries when you're out in the middle of nowhere for weeks on end - like in your wonderful Lake Eyre body of work. Some kind of solar-powered charger? Or a petrol generator or something?
Ben
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I have had the P25+,P45+ and the P65+ out in temps at about minus 3 degrees for about 4 hours and interestingly enough even the batteries did not slow down which actually surprised me. Not sure about colder but anything past minus 5 I want a lot of money to freeze my ass off. LOL
I reside in the desert and the high yesterday was a cool 114 degrees
There is a battery charger cord that you can plug into a cigarette lighter on the Phase backs.
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http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-on...ability-videos/ (http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/durability-videos/)
check out a phase back being placed in dry ice and (with a fresh battery inserted) chugging right along.
Yes this is a marketing video, but it's a simple and honest one. Even in the coldest winter nights the phase system will keep chugging. The primary concern (as mentioned above) is batteries.
As guy noted the high-capacity canon video batteries sold with phase backs hold up surprisngly well in the cold. However, in the coldest weather it's best to use a set of batteries - one in the back and on in your inner pocket and swap them as needed. This is not an application where you'd want to skimp and get "almost as good" batteries.
Doug, Capture Integration (Phase One Dealer)
Head of Technical Services
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Hi Murray,
I've always wondered how you charge your batteries when you're out in the middle of nowhere for weeks on end - like in your wonderful Lake Eyre body of work. Some kind of solar-powered charger? Or a petrol generator or something?
Ben
Ben,
I have used a number of different setups from buying heaps of batteries (80 Canon 7.6v batteries soldered into banks of 10) and driving hundreds of km's every 10 days to re-charge, to carrying a petrol generator and traveling back to a base to recharge. On the next trip I will be using solar as there will be no base to return to for some weeks. I will use a lead acid car battery as storage and then a dc to ac inverter to plug the standard chargers into.
Cheers
Murray
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Murray,
I've used the P45+ in -5 to -10 degrees F. Every 30 minutes or so, the camera would become inoperable until I swapped batteries. I carried 2 extras.
MS
Ben,
I have used a number of different setups from buying heaps of batteries (80 Canon 7.6v batteries soldered into banks of 10) and driving hundreds of km's every 10 days to re-charge, to carrying a petrol generator and traveling back to a base to recharge. On the next trip I will be using solar as there will be no base to return to for some weeks. I will use a lead acid car battery as storage and then a dc to ac inverter to plug the standard chargers into.
Cheers
Murray
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Murray,
I've used the P45+ in -5 to -10 degrees F. Every 30 minutes or so, the camera would become inoperable until I swapped batteries. I carried 2 extras.
MS
do you mind letting us know what camera/system though?
i have used P45+ on -30C with Alpa Cameras, long exposures with no problems at all!!!
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Alpa 12 Max.
Just upgraded to the P65+, but haven't used it in the cold yet.
do you mind letting us know what camera/system though?
i have used P45+ on -30C with Alpa Cameras, long exposures with no problems at all!!!
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Murray,
I've used the P45+ in -5 to -10 degrees F. Every 30 minutes or so, the camera would become inoperable until I swapped batteries. I carried 2 extras.
MS
Marc,
- Any idea how many shots you got total out of the 2 batteries you were swapping between?
- How long did it take for a battery coming out of the cold to recover once you put it back in your pocket?
Thanks.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Marc,
- Any idea how many shots you got total out of the 2 batteries you were swapping between?
- How long did it take for a battery coming out of the cold to recover once you put it back in your pocket?
Thanks.
Cheers,
Bernard
Hopefully you will get Michael or some of the Antarctic Expedition Workshop attendees to chime in. I'm sure that they will have some real world stories for you. I did find this thread that you can check out:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....rctic+Expdition (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=33795&hl=Antarctic+Expdition)
Chris Lawery ()
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Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 404.234.5195
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This is my post of 2007:
<<I live in Russia and the country is affected by Global Warming: less severe frosts, unstable weather. I want to share my experience using a digiback in extrame cold. I just came from a business trip to Eastern Siberia, where the temperature was below –30 C. what is normal. One day we enjoyed the temperature about – 45C with very low humidity. I had my ALPA TC with the eMotion 22 and 35mm Digitar and used the set for snap shots outdoors. I had no problems with my e22 even at –45 C (I kept the battery in the pocket) . Alpa and Digitar 35mm behaved as expected, being left outside for a night (in a perforated plastic case) so they did not accumulate condensate. Everything changed when the temperature dropped below – 40 C. The shutter got frozen and became lazy. It still worked and I was able to synchronize the back and the lens.>>
I was using my eMotion 75LV on the ALPA TC in the same area of Eastern Siberia in March 2009, the temperature was in the area of -40/-45C degree. I was able to get 45 shots on one Sinar freshly charged battery, than I had to keep the battery in the pocket close to the body for 30 min before it was able to shoot again with the same battery. I was constantly swapping three batteries. The back worked without any problems.
I also got a bottle of winter lubricant for my 45mm ALPAR from Linos and now the lens works in extreme cold much better.
Yevgeny
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I was using my eMotion 75LV on the ALPA TC in the same area of Eastern Siberia in March 2009, the temperature was in the area of -40/-45C degree.
My teacher used to call that magic minus forty.
-40C = -40F.
He always made a point that we'd never want to find that out first hand. I guess he wasn't as brave as you!
Glad to hear you had such a positive experience in such negative weather.
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I was using my eMotion 75LV on the ALPA TC in the same area of Eastern Siberia in March 2009, the temperature was in the area of -40/-45C degree. I was able to get 45 shots on one Sinar freshly charged battery, than I had to keep the battery in the pocket close to the body for 30 min before it was able to shoot again with the same battery. I was constantly swapping three batteries. The back worked without any problems.
I also got a bottle of winter lubricant for my 45mm ALPAR from Linos and now the lens works in extreme cold much better.
Yevgeny
I was in Yakutsk I got significantly less shots around 130 with 6 batteries but all long exposure though.
Did you video your trip? I shoot video on all my trips but I only get to appreciate it after few years or so...
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[attachment=16338:Picture_4.png]
I routinely use the P45+ and Mamiya AFD III at low temperatures. This was taken at -28C (-18C). Never any problem with camera or back, but I do carry lots of spare batteries for both.
Bill
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I was in Yakutsk I got significantly less shots around 130 with 6 batteries but all long exposure though.
Did you video your trip? I shoot video on all my trips but I only get to appreciate it after few years or so...
No, did not do any video on my trips I travel to Siberia, Russian Far East and Kazakhstan on business every other month and all this travelling has already lost its allure or excitement. .
Yakutsk!!! It is impressive!! It is located just hundreds of miles to the west from the Pole of Cold in Verkhoyansk.
BTW twenty three years ago, being in the Army, I happened to be stationed in Yakutsk and Olenyok (further to the north, in Yakutia).
It is interesting that I see more and more western tourists in Siberia. This winter I had to stay for four nights in a distant Siberian town because of the foul weather and I was surprised to meet two Englishmen at a local hotel, they were travelling in their Landrover Defender 130 from China to Mongolia to Russia to Japan. Brave people! They had a film FUJI rangefinder with them and a Nikon F3. Two month ago I met another group of tourists/explorers in Omsk: again two Englishmen on their BMW R bikes, travelling through Siberia along the Trans-Siberian railroad. I am pretty sure that they saw much more than any business traveller or a regular tourist.
Yevgeny
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Bernard,
Every 30 minutes, I captured about 20 shots (probably ~ 100 total that day between batteries). I'm sure I could have obtained more between swaps but I was taking my time setting up for stitching.
As I mentioned earlier, I'd swap batteries every 30 minutes or so...as far as I know that is how long it would take each battery to recover. Could have been shorter obviously.
MS
Marc,
- Any idea how many shots you got total out of the 2 batteries you were swapping between?
- How long did it take for a battery coming out of the cold to recover once you put it back in your pocket?
Thanks.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Hopefully you will get Michael or some of the Antarctic Expedition Workshop attendees to chime in. I'm sure that they will have some real world stories for you. I did find this thread that you can check out:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....rctic+Expdition (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=33795&hl=Antarctic+Expdition)
Thanks for the answer Chris.
I don't think so, Antartic cruise (see no particular reason to call it "expedition") temperatures were around zero Celcius.
What I call cold is at least below -10C.
For what it is worth, the battery life of my Mamiya ZD followed the following curve:
@ 20C: 300 images per battery charge
@ 0C: 200 images per battery charge
@ -10C: 10 (yes "ten") images per battery charge for newly charged batteries just taken out of a 20C environment.
I am not saying that phaseone batteries are the same, but accurate data would help.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Bernard,
Every 30 minutes, I captured about 20 shots (probably ~ 100 total that day between batteries). I'm sure I could have obtained more between swaps but I was taking my time setting up for stitching.
As I mentioned earlier, I'd swap batteries every 30 minutes or so...as far as I know that is how long it would take each battery to recover. Could have been shorter obviously.
Thanks for the answer.
Cheers,
Bernard
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This is my post of 2007:
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I also got a bottle of winter lubricant for my 45mm ALPAR from Linos and now the lens works in extreme cold much better.
Yevgeny
Yevgeny,
Can you possibly elaborate on your use of the lubricant for cold conditions? Did you use on the Alpa, the lens shutters, both? What/where is 'Linos' and was there information supplied on the correct use of the lubricant?
Cheers
Murray
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Yevgeny,
Can you possibly elaborate on your use of the lubricant for cold conditions? Did you use on the Alpa, the lens shutters, both? What/where is 'Linos' and was there information supplied on the correct use of the lubricant?
Cheers
Murray
Murray,
Linos = Rodenstock
http://www.linos.com/pages/?id=497 (http://www.linos.com/pages/?id=497)
I remember that Thierry of Sinar mentioned here on the Forum that Sinar could supply their special winter lubricant. I tried to order it through the local Sinar dealer and failed. We did not have the catalogue number for the lubricant.
A bit later, I contacted some people who were in the contract with the Russian Air Force and they did calibration and service of aerial fotography and photogrammetry digital cameras. Some of the units were equipped with Rodenstock Digital lenses and Rollei electronic shutters and the cameras were used in extreme cold. They had a Linos-approved solution and they shared some of the lube with me. Then I asked them to service my Alpar lense and have it greased.
The Copal shutter was disassembled, they soaked it in a special alcohol solution and put the winter lubricant in the shutter. Than the lense was assembled, cleaned and calibrated. They advised me to repeat the service once a year . I am not so sure that I am skilled to do that type of lens surgery myself and still keep the small bottle of lubricant at home. The lense works well in summer and winter.
Yevgeny
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hi Yevgeny & Murray,
that's right, there is a special lubricant/grease which can be used in cold to very cold conditions, like the ones you mention. We did it for some special applications and customers, especially for the gears on the p2 camera. Like a winter oil for cars, this grease does keep its fluidity/properties under low temperature conditions and does not harden. But there is no cat number to order it. I would suggest to contact Sinar directly, should the dealer not be able to help to provide it. But I guess David is the right man to contact first.
Best regards,
Thierry
I remember that Thierry of Sinar mentioned here on the Forum that Sinar could supply their special winter lubricant. I tried to order it through the local Sinar dealer and failed. We did not have the catalogue number for the lubricant.
Yevgeny