Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Kim Bentsen on August 26, 2009, 03:16:18 pm
-
Some here might be interested in this.
I don't shoot MFD, but if I were to invest, then the AFi would be on top of my shopping list.
http://savetheleafafi.com/Afi_petitionlist.asp (http://savetheleafafi.com/Afi_petitionlist.asp)
-
Save The Leaf AFi .com
We the undersigned would like to encourage Phase One to consider taking steps towards keeping the Leaf Afi-II camera
alive and a viable option to professional photographers everywhere.
We believe that the AFi-II is currently the best medium format camera system currently available to professional photographers .....
.......18. Christian Poulson Copenhagen NA Denmark
I absolutely LOVE IT.
Andre
-
signed
.......18. Christian Poulson Copenhagen NA Denmark
Someone has a great sense of humour
-
I signed it, doubtful if it will be back.
I have shot with the camera and was very impressed. But it did not seem price competitive by a long way with the offerings from Hasselblad and Phase and Mamiya.
-
I'm signed. It's hard to believe that such an incredible system won't make a come back.
Nothing even is close to provide all the advantages this system has.
Price is steep, but that's the way it is in MF world. I don't care for anything else with the sole exception of Hasselblad truly supporting again the V system. The CFV39 in my most humble opinion is only a bad joke.
Eduardo
I signed it, doubtful if it will be back.
I have shot with the camera and was very impressed. But it did not seem price competitive by a long way with the offerings from Hasselblad and Phase and Mamiya.
-
*Signs petition*
I should also like to think that a similar petition will be in place for the Sinar Hy6. The rumour mill reports that Sinar are dropping the Hy6 from the lineup, but this would be a horrible shame! The Hy6/Afi camera is by far and away the best MF camera I've worked with - here's hoping that consumers' voices will be heard...
-
here's hoping that consumers' voices will be heard...
The consumers' voices were heard. Nobody bought it.
-
Signed. Such as good camera and batch of lenses, and if they were saved, might as well open to just any backs.
Brgds/K
-
"Nobody bought it"
F&H was running at full production capacity!
But it won't come back, because Sinar alone seems to small to reestablish Hy6-production (F&H was much bigger than Sinar) or come up with a new MFDB!? But it deserves any chance!
-
Signed. How about a closing run, for Phase backs, special price?
Geoff
-
It's the best camera I've ever used and the lenses are nothing short of fantastic.
A phase back on the afi/hy6 would be the ultimate combination I think - a vast improvement on the current phase/mamiya offering. Hope springs eternal...
-
Hey,
I just signed - I am no.100 !
Do I get a lens for free now?
Frankly I am also really convinced of the AFI/Hy6.
They could improve the AF a little bit but other than that I find it perfect.
In camera metering with WLF, rotating sensor/back, some room for bigger sensors in the future, and finally those lenses!
If the system has not produced cash for SInar/Leaf than it is not the fault of the product but of the marketing etc. Thats my strong believe. Once its promoted and sold in a propper way it should generate money for Leaf/Phase/Sinar.
Cheers, Tom
-
Hey,
I just signed - I am no.100 !
Do I get a lens for free now?
Frankly I am also really convinced of the AFI/Hy6.
They could improve the AF a little bit but other than that I find it perfect.
In camera metering with WLF, rotating sensor/back, some room for bigger sensors in the future, and finally those lenses!
If the system has not produced cash for SInar/Leaf than it is not the fault of the product but of the marketing etc. Thats my strong believe. Once its promoted and sold in a propper way it should generate money for Leaf/Phase/Sinar.
Cheers, Tom
...hate to say it, but based on a few very private conversations with some very connected people, my best advice is, if you like this camera then buy up whatever you can find. It ain't comin back.
Honestly, one conversation I had was truly disturbing and upsetting- some very personal attacks going on out there in the industry, and it reads like Days of our Lives... and a really profound feeling that the MFDB industry, the entire industry, is in deep, deep trouble. I asked the question, where will MF be in 5 years? ...the answer was, simply, gone.
Now, don't beat me, I'm just sayin...
-
I asked the question, where will MF be in 5 years? ...the answer was, simply, gone.
- Phase One made a profit last year in one of the worst years in the world economy ever
- There is ALWAYS a market for something which is the "next step" up from a widely available product
- 35mm one-size-fits-all cameras do not seriously address areas of photography which need custom solution
- The MF market does not require millions of users; companies like Cambo THRIVE from just thousands
- There are products in the market already (e.g. the P65+) which are absolutely stunning
- though the P65+ is the king for the near future, the long term pipeline is very exciting
No one can know the future. I don't know who the players will be (though I have some very educated - though biased - guesses). I don't know what the products will look like. But there will be a next-bigger camera from 35mm for the foreseeable future (and I mean decades - beyond that who knows if the word "camera" will even make sense).
It's very easy. Simply ask yourself how many years it will be before 35mm cameras will produce the quality of a P65+ file, and with that many years of development what the medium format market will have at that point. As a historical precedent an H25 (first produced 2003) has better image quality than today's best dSLRs.
Just because the market was not big enough (during a very heavy recession) for four or five players, does not mean that it's not way more than enough for one or two or three.
Doug Peterson ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/)
-
- Phase One made a profit last year in one of the worst years in the world economy ever
- There is ALWAYS a market for something which is the "next step" up from a widely available product
- 35mm one-size-fits-all cameras do not seriously address areas of photography which need custom solution
- The MF market does not require millions of users; companies like Cambo THRIVE from just thousands
- There are products in the market already (e.g. the P65+) which are absolutely stunning
- though the P65+ is the king for the near future, the long term pipeline is very exciting
No one can know the future. I don't know who the players will be (though I have some very educated - though biased - guesses). I don't know what the products will look like. But there will be a next-bigger camera from 35mm for the foreseeable future (and I mean decades - beyond that who knows if the word "camera" will even make sense).
It's very easy. Simply ask yourself how many years it will be before 35mm cameras will produce the quality of a P65+ file, and with that many years of development what the medium format market will have at that point. As a historical precedent an H25 (first produced 2003) has better image quality than today's best dSLRs.
Just because the market was not big enough (during a very heavy recession) for four or five players, does not mean that it's not way more than enough for one or two or three.
Doug Peterson ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/)
I sincerely hope you're right...
-
I sincerely hope you're right...
I think MF will stay for the simple reason that there are things you simply can't do with a DSLR that you can with a MF system.
Also the look of the images (due to the larger sensor) is different.
So unless there will be DLSRs with lower ISO's, higher X-sync, no aa filters etc. there will be a place for MF.
Will the place get smaller......
Well yes, quality of the DSLR is getting better and better but to be honest I think the limit of MPs is rapidly approaching, the 5DMKII is great but shooting at f16 is a problem and that's something I like to do a lot when shooting outside with strobes, so or I need a higher Xsync or lower ISO (hate to use ND filters), simply put on f16 the images are getting quite softer.
MF will be there for a special market, and that market will stay.
However I do think we will be left with 2 big companies being Phase One/Leaf and Hasselblad I think the rest will dissapear (already happening).
-
I sincerely hope you're right...
LOL, me too.
I have a full-proof way to find out, but it requires 5 years.
-
LOL, me too.
I have a full-proof way to find out, but it requires 5 years.
yeah and my backup plan (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-porn10-2009aug10,0,4788614.story?page=1) is in trouble, too...
-
I think MF will stay for the simple reason that there are things you simply can't do with a DSLR that you can with a MF system.
well... I think you have to separate why you want it, from what makes it a viable business plan. Maybe you're right about the market for it, but I don't see it from where I sit.
-
I think MF will stay for the simple reason that there are things you simply can't do with a DSLR that you can with a MF system.
It depends on what market you are in, what you shoot and who hires you.
Frank, your business model is seminars and classes (a lot of photographers have recently gone this direction) so in some ways having a bigger camera and more bling adds to your overall presentation. I'm sure when you pull out that big honking RZ your classes give out more oohs and ahhs, than when you use the little Mamiya 645.
Though even with that you and most of the proponents of medium format never bought an AFI, HY6, Rollei or any new 60 something megapixel back. You demonstrated them, reported on them, said they were peachy keen, but from the bloggin to actually writing the check, something stopped you and obviously a lot of other photographers.
If as many people had bought the AFI/HY6 as the ones that say they love it, then it would probably still be in production.
BC
-
I just signed - I am no.100 !
Do I get a lens for free now?
Uh, no.
But they will presnt you with the honor, for a limited time only, to be one of teh few to pre-order an AFi, with just a $10K non-refundable deposit. When they have collected that $10K from just 1,000 people - $10 milion total - they will start the lines and do a special run just for ypu!
Don't you feel special?
Seriusly though, the problem is we are just creatives on the outside, not industy insiders with acess to teh finacial details. We really don't know the margins, economics, number of products sold, break even point, etc. Give me a good 1,000 page deck of confidential financial spreadsheets, powerpoints, and strategfic industry analysis and I can tell you what the future looks like. The rest is just noise on our end, unfortunately.
-
Hi
Jenoptik has just let go of Sinar. Before Phase bought out Leaf, Sinar was a fourth tier MFD choice. Today it is no 3 & it would not surprise me if Sinar is a distant no 3 in comparison to Hasselblad & Phase One. Sinar has just stated that the Hy6 is over. F&H have closed the doors. If anyone a year ago predicted what has unfolded with MFD to this date we would have thought they were crazy!
Denis
-
I said, here, a year ago that AFi/Hy6 would probably not survive and people thought I was crazy, now it is down to a petition.
What about petition for Contax to come back?
The system was not looking forwards technology wise, and had the wrong format for existing digital backs.
But mostly it was too little too late.
Now Sony just came out with a discounted new model (DSLR-A850 24.6MP), good as an example of what the real world looks like.
We should all petition for 2% reduction in world's poverty -and child mortality- levels instead...
-
Buying up Sinar and Leaf's existing stock of the Hy6/AFi will send a much stronger signal than signing any petition.
Companies can't survive on just "think it's a bloody good idea". Shake the moneymaker; show them the dosh.
If only the petition signatories would translate their signatures into cheques...
-
I said, here, a year ago that AFi/Hy6 would probably not survive and people thought I was crazy, now it is down to a petition.
What about petition for Contax to come back?
The system was not looking forwards technology wise, and had the wrong format for existing digital backs.
But mostly it was too little too late.
Now Sony just came out with a discounted new model (DSLR-A850 24.6MP), good as an example of what the real world looks like.
We should all petition for 2% reduction in world's poverty -and child mortality- levels instead...
OK so what do you want a prize? an IPA honorable mention? That we all declare that actually we were wrong to say that Rollei/Scheider optics were the best, and that the Hy6 was the most sophisticated MF camera out there and instead that really Mamiya with the slow 1/125 shutter and mirror vibration and tiny viewfinder is really a way better camera .... what were we all thinking about. What, what?
-
Eric,
I am sorry if I upset you with my post it is not my intention, I am just the messenger here.
mcphoto said: " If anyone a year ago predicted what has unfolded with MFD to this date we would have thought they were crazy!
Denis". Yes some people could see some of it and yes, we got -and we get- a lot of heat for posting our opinion.
I wonder if everyone here wants posters to say only "positive" things, not to criticize, not to state "crazy" ideas like: -hey, this system is lacking a 28mm AND even a 35mm- because it may upset people that are busy spending $50k on such system. Even a Maserati is no good if it comes without a back-up gear.
We may never know what really killed the Afi/Hy6. You where/are correct in the points you make about the system -and about Mamiya-, but it was just not enough given the other design flaws. There is one undeniable fact: this system is now waiting for its postmortem...
OK so what do you want a prize? an IPA honorable mention? That we all declare that actually we were wrong to say that Rollei/Scheider optics were the best, and that the Hy6 was the most sophisticated MF camera out there and instead that really Mamiya with the slow 1/125 shutter and mirror vibration and tiny viewfinder is really a way better camera .... what were we all thinking about. What, what?
-
Sinar has just stated that the Hy6 is over.
I don't know of any statement to that effect. Got a link?
-
Bye, bye Sinar and the Hy6:
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=867983 (http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=867983)
.
-
Bye, bye Sinar and the Hy6:
Nowhere in that article does it say that Sinar is closing or even dropping the Hy6.
-
Buying up Sinar and Leaf's existing stock of the Hy6/AFi will send a much stronger signal than signing any petition.
Companies can't survive on just "think it's a bloody good idea". Shake the moneymaker; show them the dosh.
If only the petition signatories would translate their signatures into cheques...
I allready head my Hy6 but went from a Sinar54 to a Sinar75 back with Hy6-mount and the arTec.
I am aware that the used price of the Hy6 system and Sinar backs might not hold its level, but on the other side it has been priced new pretty reasonable IMO so for me I see it as a good deal as long as one doesnt plan to sell it again after 5 months.
Even when F&H had allready filed as insolvent I bought a 45 degree viewfinder from them, some month before that the Hy6-set and also a 110/2.0
So- no- I am not only signing and saying its a pretty good idea. I write it because I am convinced its a good system whith which the should be able to make money if they market it the right way.
It is not suprizing that today not many/ nobody would buy into the system as long as it is unclear if and who will continue to develop and support it.
-
Hey,
I just signed - I am no.100 !
Do I get a lens for free now?
Frankly I am also really convinced of the AFI/Hy6.
They could improve the AF a little bit but other than that I find it perfect.
In camera metering with WLF, rotating sensor/back, some room for bigger sensors in the future, and finally those lenses!
If the system has not produced cash for SInar/Leaf than it is not the fault of the product but of the marketing etc. Thats my strong believe. Once its promoted and sold in a propper way it should generate money for Leaf/Phase/Sinar.
Cheers, Tom
Hi Tom,
the AF has been improved recently!
My AFi has been serviced lately. Now the AF is faster and much more reliable. Also does it work now in dim light situations. Last not least the AF can now be adjusted by the user himself! Try and contact your dealer ...
F+H will be working until the end of this month at least. Rumours go that they are working on a small solution which means that they run the company as a service station or so ...
Have a nice day!
-
I said, here, a year ago that AFi/Hy6 would probably not survive and people thought I was crazy, now it is down to a petition.
What about petition for Contax to come back?
I'm starting a petition to bring back Bronica.
-
I want Michael Jackson and Freddie Mercury back.....
-
Yeahhh! Mercury and the Hy6
I want Michael Jackson and Freddie Mercury back.....
-
mmm Petition to bring the mighty Aztek to the good old Pontiac guys
(http://www.cruzweb.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/2001-pontiac-aztek.jpg)
Yeahhh! Mercury and the Hy6
-
maybe red should think about making their next generation with hy6/afi/ contax adapters..
might be a good home for these great lenses.