Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Doug Peterson on May 22, 2009, 10:35:32 am
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http://www.phaseone.com/Content/Downloads/CO4.aspx (http://www.phaseone.com/Content/Downloads/CO4.aspx)
Still working on installing and testing, so not yet recommending to update production machines. However, release notes indicate:
- improvements for long exposures with the 40+/65+
- compatibility with Japanese version of Windows (talk about a niche fix)
Also addresses a memory-leak issue that affected a small number (maybe 15ish percent?) of 8-core mac pro users ("out of memory" error).
As always, it's a good idea to uninstall the previous version (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/11/20/uninstalling-capture-one-4-on-mac/) prior to installing the new version, and make a bootable backup (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/07/09/backup-solutions-for-during-and-before-your-shoot/) prior to altering any production machine.
Phase is working hard at incorporating some of the features which have been asked for here and other places. This is NOT a major release with any new features here, just a few bug fixes and camera-specific improvements to processing.
Doug
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (http://mailto:[email protected])
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
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I have a 5D2 at the moment. Is there interest for my making a 5D2 profile for C1 4.8?
Generic profiles are only really useful when cameras of the same model are pretty much identical colorwise. Is this your experience with the 5D2? I noticed batch variation in the original 5D.
Edmund
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Probably been mentioned before and its probably that I need to adjust my workflow. But I would love to have the ability to import from card nto the capture folder of the current session with a short cut like there is for the desktop etc.
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Probably been mentioned before and its probably that I need to adjust my workflow. But I would love to have the ability to import from card nto the capture folder of the current session with a short cut like there is for the desktop etc.
All feedback is always welcome. You are right that in this case the issue has already been raised. I've spoken with the developers and hopefully this will be added soon.
My suggestion was actually a bit more specific. I suggest they add a "Quick Import from Card" section of the Capture tab
- imports all images on the CF card to the current capture folder
- names the incoming images the same as the "Next Capture Naming" dialogue in the tethered section
- applies styling/adjustments in accordance with the "Next Image Adjustments" dialogue
- all settings are controlled by a triangle pull down so that you can change settings, but once set you can forget them and just push "go"
The idea for me is that, during a fast-paced shoot, importing from a card should have the same speed and functionality as tethering.
The current import dialogue is great for those working at home after a landscape shoot, but is not great for the fast paced shooting that C1 dominates in the digital-tech market. Phase is aware of this, and whether they take my specific suggestion or do something completely different you can be sure they will address this issue.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (http://mailto:[email protected])
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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Doug
Any idea when C1 will be 64-bit capable?
regards
Victor
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All feedback is always welcome. You are right that in this case the issue has already been raised. I've spoken with the developers and hopefully this will be added soon............................but is not great for the fast paced shooting .......
Do you think we might see these changes by version 4.9.2 or do you think we will have to wait for 4.9.7?
Thx.
B
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Any idea when C1 will be 64-bit capable?
I haven't asked in over a year, but C1 rarely runs out of memory in the current 2gb limit of 32 bit, so I can't imagine 64 bit (which would raise the ram limit) it's a high priority.
Much more important is the efficient use of multiple cores with 4-core laptops and 16-core desktops becoming mainstream in the near future. If you bring up the Activity Monitor and then copy/paste adjustments, process a batch of files, or make a contact sheet you'll notice that C1 is already able to address around 70-80% of the 8-cores of a current gen Mac Pro.
Doug
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (http://mailto:[email protected])
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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I haven't asked in over a year, but C1 rarely runs out of memory in the current 2gb limit of 32 bit, so I can't imagine 64 bit (which would raise the ram limit) it's a high priority.
Much more important is the efficient use of multiple cores with 4-core laptops and 16-core desktops becoming mainstream in the near future. If you bring up the Activity Monitor and then copy/paste adjustments, process a batch of files, or make a contact sheet you'll notice that C1 is already able to address around 70-80% of the 8-cores of a current gen Mac Pro.
Doug
Seriously,
The biggest issue I see when using v4 is the difference between what you see in the C1 window and what is imported into photoshop cs4.
For low key images the difference is 20% to 30%. In other words the c1 window will look good, contrasty, right highlight retention and into photoshop it's flat and muddy and looks 1/2 stop underexposed.
For high key images the difference is less, but there.
One person on this forum suggested it's the viewing background and it makes a difference visually to change it to a lighter grey, but the images just don't represent the same in c1 and photoshop.
So bottom line is with low key images you have to adjust them, then make a guess of how much more to open them up to view in photoshop respective to what you saw in C-1.
Can this, or will it be addressed?
thx.
B
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So bottom line is with low key images you have to adjust them, then make a guess of how much more to open them up to view in photoshop respective to what you saw in C-1.
I bet this is still the dark interface of C1 (killer) that causes the differences visually. I've done several tests (as I was desperate sometimes) with screenshots of the preview in C1 and the processed image in Photoshop packing them on layers and toggle the layers resp. set the layer mode to "difference" - the difference is so little that it is not visible. It just appears to be there when you toggle from C1 to Photoshop (due to C1's dark interface).
So the way to adress this issue is to make the brightness of the entire C1 interface customizable (which I belive should not be very complicated to code and what I'd love to see in upcoming upgrades but Phase support told me that they are not planning to do so unfortunately).
You can try the other way around: set Photoshop to a dark background matching that of C1. But this will not work out when preparing for print... as it is simply much too dark. The dark background/interface is trendy (seems so as Lightroom did it)... but totally useless for critical colour work... my point of view.
For colour critical work the best workaround here is to set the "light" background in C1 and to do as much as possible in the C1 Viewer window with the tools and the tool bar hidden... IMHO.
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FWIW here's a TIF with 2 layers.
Screenhots of the preview in C1 and screenshot of the processed file opened in Photoshop.
http://tinyurl.com/rd5dse (http://tinyurl.com/rd5dse)
(2.4MB please unzip with "Stuffit").
If your display is very good linearized you may see a difference in the black pattern when you toggle the layers.*
So I think colour management in C1 is up to the task. The interface is not.
*edit: and BTW - the black pattern is "darker" in C1, not the other way around
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FWIW here's a TIF with 2 layers.
Screenhots of the preview in C1 and screenshot of the processed file opened in Photoshop.
http://tinyurl.com/rd5dse (http://tinyurl.com/rd5dse)
(2.4MB please unzip with "Stuffit").
If your display is very good linearized you may see a difference in the black pattern when you toggle the layers.*
So I think colour management in C1 is up to the task. The interface is not.
*edit: and BTW - the black pattern is "darker" in C1, not the other way around
Thanks for that tho_mas. Those match up with my experience.
Most likely bcooter's comments were driven by some problem causing major differences and not the slight (relatively speaking) visual difference of editing on black versus gray backgrounds.
Mismatches can be caused by:
1) Soft Proofing in C1
2) Soft Proofing in PS
3) Other settings in PS (e.g. Open GL)
4) Corrupted monitor profile*
Any feedback BCooter? Are you talking about a difference at 100% or zoom to fit and can you quantify or illustrate the difference you are seeing? Have you eliminated each of the above possible solutions? Which program does Preview, or other color management enabled programs agree with?
*I've only seen this a few times, but somehow the monitor profile can become corrupted in such a way that the OS, PS, or C1 misreads it but the other two do not. Recalibrating the monitor (which creates a fresh profile) fixes this.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (http://mailto:[email protected])
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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Mismatches can be caused by:
1) Soft Proofing in C1
2) Soft Proofing in PS
3) Other settings in PS (e.g. Open GL)
4) Corrupted monitor profile*
all true!
As to #1 Softproofing in C1... on Vista I had a bug in C1 (up to V4.7) that the softrpoof setting didn't stick. I had to reset to "selected recipe" all the time I restarted C1. So if this is the case... it's not exactly "user error".
On Mac this is not an issue.
But still... the interface is a pain.
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I bet this is still the dark interface of C1 (killer) that causes the differences visually. I've done several tests (as I was desperate sometimes) with screenshots of the preview in C1 and the processed image in Photoshop packing them on layers and toggle the layers resp. set the layer mode to "difference" - the difference is so little that it is not visible. It just appears to be there when you toggle from C1 to Photoshop (due to C1's dark interface).
So the way to adress this issue is to make the brightness of the entire C1 interface customizable (which I belive should not be very complicated to code and what I'd love to see in upcoming upgrades but Phase support told me that they are not planning to do so unfortunately).
You can try the other way around: set Photoshop to a dark background matching that of C1. But this will not work out when preparing for print... as it is simply much too dark. The dark background/interface is trendy (seems so as Lightroom did it)... but totally useless for critical colour work... my point of view.
For colour critical work the best workaround here is to set the "light" background in C1 and to do as much as possible in the C1 Viewer window with the tools and the tool bar hidden... IMHO.
Not that it is necessarily the issue, but it is possible to change the preview border color of the C1 4.8.1 interface in the appearance section of the preferences with choices that include:
Black
Dark
Medium
Light
White
Steve Hendrix
Phase One
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Not that it is necessarily the issue, but it is possible to change the preview border color of the C1 4.8.1 interface in the appearance section of the preferences with choices that include:
Black
Dark
Medium
Light
White
Steve Hendrix
Phase One
I am not in the studio now but when I return I will pull screen shots of the difference between the Phase Window and the image when imported into cs4.
I do know prior to working, especially on a collection recalibrate the monitor and check all settings to make sure soft proofing is off.
I do toggle soft proofing in cs4 to check gamut and look, but it's always off when imaging.
I am positive that c1 v4 renders a low key image differently than what is transfered to cs4 and yes, it could be a corrupt monitor profile, but I seriously doubt it.
Yes, the image background makes a difference the the look (expecially if the image is small), but not as drastic as I am seeing.
I will post screen shots when I return to the studio.
JR
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Not that it is necessarily the issue, but it is possible to change the preview border color of the C1 4.8.1 interface in the appearance section of the preferences with choices that include: Black, Dark, Medium, Light, White
Attached are three of my workspaces. You can see where the preference for the background of C1's preview area comes in handy. Each of these workspaces is tweaked for a specific task; though I mainly switch between them only when sitting down for a multi-hour computer session.
I use a program called Backdrop (http://www.johnhaney.com/backdrop/) by John Haney (donationware) to ensure the annoying desktop icons don't show through. Particularly useful when editing multiple documents in Photoshop.
This is on a single 30" monitor. I have a different setup when using the 30" Horizontal plus 23" Vertical setup. I much prefer the multiple monitor setup because it allows you to isolate JUST the image on the main monitor.
Excuse the ugly bug eyes; it just happens to be what I'm working on right now.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (http://mailto:[email protected])
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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I am not in the studio now but when I return I will pull screen shots of the difference between the Phase Window and the image when imported into cs4.
I do know prior to working, especially on a collection recalibrate the monitor and check all settings to make sure soft proofing is off.
I do toggle soft proofing in cs4 to check gamut and look, but it's always off when imaging.
I am positive that c1 v4 renders a low key image differently than what is transfered to cs4 and yes, it could be a corrupt monitor profile, but I seriously doubt it.
Yes, the image background makes a difference the the look (expecially if the image is small), but not as drastic as I am seeing.
I will post screen shots when I return to the studio.
Look forward to it. On my system, and the systems I've helped install/configure as well as the systems I've helped troubleshoot the image in C1 is, in a practical sense, identical* to the image in PS, so if your experience is different then there is something wrong which we can surely find and correct.
*As tho_mas pointed out they are not mathematically identical, but for all raw-image adjusting needs they are the same image.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (http://mailto:[email protected])
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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I do toggle soft proofing in cs4 to check gamut and look, but it's always off when imaging.
Unless I am misreading this then this may be the source of the issues. Soft proofing should be on in Capture One and set to proof the output color profile. So if you're processing to sRGB for web, for instance, then in C1 you would softproof to sRGB (or leave it on "destination color profile"). The only exception is if you were outputing with "embed camera profile" instead of a profile like sRGB/Adobe1998/ProPhoto.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (http://mailto:[email protected])
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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Doug-
I normally have C1 set to "selected recipe", in the Proof Profile menu. Are you saying I should keep it set to ProPhoto instead, if that is what I'm outputing files as?
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Not that it is necessarily the issue, but it is possible to change the preview border color of the C1 4.8.1 interface in the appearance section of the preferences with choices
yes, that's what I was referring to with the light "background".
But on a one single Monitor setup it doesn't help very much as there is no way to set the image smaller than "to fit" - which I find extremely annoying as it is much more comfortable to work whith a neutral border around the image. Now the image is always next to the browser and/or the tools. Too, if you hide browser or tools the image jumps in its dimensions, i.e. it's getting bigger. This was MUCH better in V3 were the image was always placed on a neutral background (i.e. "border").
The only exception is if you were outputing with "embed camera profile"
but even with the setting "embed camera profile" the proof destination should be set to "selected recipe", no?
Or would you set it to "no proof profile"? (IMHO this is exactly the same in this particular case.)
I normally have C1 set to "selected recipe", in the Proof Profile menu. Are you saying I should keep it set to ProPhoto instead, if that is what I'm outputing files as?
no, that's okay. C1 translates the colours to the respective destination when you set "selected recipe".
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Doug-
I normally have C1 set to "selected recipe", in the Proof Profile menu. Are you saying I should keep it set to ProPhoto instead, if that is what I'm outputing files as?
yes, that's what I was referring to with the light "background".
But on a one single Monitor setup it doesn't help very much as there is no way to set the image smaller than "to fit" - which I find extremely annoying as it is much more comfortable to work whith a neutral border around the image. Now the image is always next to the browser and/or the tools. Too, if you hide browser or tools the image jumps in its dimensions, i.e. it's getting bigger. This was MUCH better in V3 were the image was always placed on a neutral background (i.e. "border").
I agree. This was better in V3 and the developers have a smaller than "fit" zoom on a list of features to add. In the meanwhile check out my single-monitor setups that I posted above. There is no reason you must use the primary window for the primary view image and the floating viewer for something else. Feel free to make the floating view the "main" view of the image as I have done with each of my three examples. This allows you to float the image in space. Obviously this is just a workaround until they add a smaller than "fit" zoom
V4 allows for some very sophisticated setups. My two more tool-intensive setups probably look cluttered to some, but to me they are the eptimey of functional design; every single thing I need is on one screen including thumbnails, a 100% focus view, a navigator for the main image (if zoomed) a large view of the image that can switch between 100%, fit, or multiple images. Try to setup anything remotely like this in 3 and you'll quickly appreciate how nice the customization is in V4. And if you like simplicity rather than quick access to a huge number of tools then by all means you can go to JUST the main image and a tool or two.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (http://mailto:[email protected])
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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I agree. This was better in V3 and the developers have a smaller than "fit" zoom on a list of features to add.
that's really great to hear! Tell them they should set menu entries or better allow to set shortcuts for 25% and 50% as well. On Mac now we have "to fit", 100%, 200% and 400%. Who needs 200% and 400%???
In the meanwhile check out my single-monitor setups that I posted above.
That might be okay on a 30'' screen but not on a 24'' screen. Your setup looks like a space ship command central to me personally and might be okay for Audio Editing. I prefer clean interfaces and that means as much as possible NEUTRAL GREY. Open your setup and open C1 V3 Windows on a second monitor and compare side by side: all questions answered immediately, no workaround needed in V3.
The C1 tools are simply too dark and too contrasty. Either way which "workaround" you set. I'd prefer to work without any workaround... not when it comes to those basic things as decent viewing conditions.
And by the way: I've asked serveral times about these things at the Phase support and at the Phase forums (up from the first Beta and now we are 1.5 years later and at version 4.8.1 and I still have to set a workaround just to see the image in a way that works... phew!).
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Hey Guys
To help with the task of keeping up to date for the new versions as the roll out I've created this app that uninstalls CaptureOne 4.x . Four items are deleted as recommended by phaseone before updating the app. these are ~/Library/Preferences/com.phaseone.captureone.plist , ~/Pictures/Capture One Library/Capture One.col45 , ~/Library/Application Support/Capture One , and Applications/Capture One.app.
WARNING: This app is provided free and without warranty. And as it works you may find that it does in fact delete your copy of CaptureOne smile.gif
www.rapdigital.net/files/uninstall_4.x.zip
Feel free to provide feedback
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We have been using C1 4 for about a month. We just finished a shoot with 4.8 on OS 10.5.7 & had no problems. I shot fast & slow with the Canon 1DSMKIII with not one crash! I think it is the update to 10.5.7. Regardless everything worked great & that was with a 5 m active extension added to the standard 5 m USB lead. All good. Its great shooting Canon into such a great program.
Cheers Denis