Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Digital Cameras & Shooting Techniques => Topic started by: Alex MacPherson on April 24, 2009, 08:57:02 pm
-
I just found out that I have been scammed for $2100 for a Canon 1Ds Mark ii that I bought on Ebay.
Apparently, the seller is being investigated for fraud in several auctions and is no longer listed by ebay.
The seller was out of Indonesia claiming to have a camera with a transferable USA MACK warranty.
I just thought I would put it out there so if you see anything else like this to avoid it.
I have bought tens of thousands of dollars worth of items off ebay without incident since 1999. I don't fault
ebay. I paid with PayPal so I am getting all my money back.
Just an FYI for all here
-
I paid with PayPal so I am getting all my money back.
That sucks, but hopefully you will learn. There would have been signs that it was fraudulent, but your excitement probably got in the way of your critical faculties. Don't mean to be harsh....but you're also wrong to think you will get ALL the money back from PayPal. You will get about 70-75 percent back if you are lucky.
Good luck!
-
Ebay is filled with scams both from sellers and buyers. A few months ago I tried to sell my 1ds mk2 and twice the winning bidder wanted the camera shipped to Nigeria. The winners info indicated they were from Florida and the UK but upon winning I received an email with directions to ship to Nairobi and then a fraudulant email from Paypal telling me that in order to protect the buyer, payment would be made when the tracking info was provided. After this happened the second time I approached the second highest bidder to buy the camera (who was legitiment) and in the middle of the process Paypal sent the buyer her funds back because they finally figured out there was something wrong with the first deal. We had just shipped the camera to someone who now had not paid for it, so I was able to have the shipper return the camera and have given up selling it for the time being. Fortunately, all I lost was the cost of listing the camera, $30-35. I thought I'd never bother with ebay again but just a couple of Mondays ago we searched for Apple 30" moniters and found an auction where a design firm had gone out of business in Detroit (where I'm located) and had 6 moniters new in their boxes. I contacted the seller (who had 100% positive feedback going back to 2002) to see about purchasing a couple of them for a buy now price and I'd pick them up at the end of the week. We arrived at a price of 1000.00, hearing that, several associates decided they'd like one also. Consequently, we bought five moniters for 5000.00 and paid through my Paypal account. I asked to have a look at the equipment later that day and was informed that it was locked up in a storage area in the office building where we were to pick up the monitors and the seller (who claimed he was a liquidator) wasn't going to be in town before Friday. He also mentioned that he had three Pro towers he was going to auction Wednesday morning and asked if I was interested. He supplied the specs for the machines and a picture of the boxes (again, brand new, still in the boxes). The pricing was equivilant to what we paid for the monitors, 60% of the retail cost. I was starting to become skeptical but my associates were in favor of purchasing all three, this time because of my skepticism I put down 25% with the understanding that I'd pay the balance with a cashiers check that coming Friday. Our conversations continued over the phone as to the timing and exact location of the pickup (even a conversation Friday morning) but upon arriving Friday afternoon at the designated location our seller was no where to be found and no one at the place had ever heard of the seller or design firm or the company that the cashiers check was made out to. Here's what I've learned or relearned, if it sounds to good to be true it probably is. From the police officer who took the report I've also learned that scammers have software that generate positive feedback for their ebay listings. So if you ever see an auction and the seller claims to be Brian Olsen don't participate and please let me know about it. If all this hasn't bored you enough, I'm adding the email correspondance. Thanks, Jim
Jim,
Glad to hear it. My group prefers to use Paypal. This transaction does not need to take place tonight. You may have your business manager send the funds tomorrow morning if you like. They prefer this speedy method to ensure these units are sold and do not need to be auctioned. Time is limited in the suite and nothing can remain after the 22nd of this month. Thank you for understanding in advance.

From: james haefner <[email protected]>
To: Brian Olsen <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 7:23:57 PM
Subject: Re: Five, 30" Apple Displays & Info on Mac Pro systems as requested.
Re: Five, 30" Apple Displays & Info on Mac Pro systems as requested. Brian, I’ll take them. Is a certified check okay? Jim

From: Brian Olsen <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:13:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: james haefner <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Five, 30" Apple Displays & Info on Mac Pro systems as requested.
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the quick response. I spoke to my group about the Mac Pro's. They appreciate you willing to take these all three units at once but need to at least break even on these and agree to $3,200 per unit.
Your total would be $9,600 USD. I can set these aside with confirmation of payment via Paypal, exactly like the displays you purchased earlier. They will be available for pickup with your displays.
I look forward to your response.

From: james haefner <[email protected]>
To: Brian Olsen <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 7:01:23 PM
Subject: Re: Five, 30" Apple Displays & Info on Mac Pro systems as requested.
Re: Five, 30" Apple Displays & Info on Mac Pro systems as requested. Brian, I am interested in the machines. I’ll take all three for .50 on the dollar. Jim

From: Brian Olsen <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 15:39:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Five, 30" Apple Displays & Info on Mac Pro systems as requested.
Hello Jim,
Once again it was a pleasure dealing with you today. I thank you for the timely payment.
The address which you can expect to pick up your purchases on Friday, April 17th at 6:30PM is as follows:
65 Cadillac Square Suite 2200, Detroit, MI
I will be expecting your courier at the agreed time. If they need help with directions or finding me, please pass on my mobile number: 715.310.0054.
We have 3 Mac Pro systems available as well. I have not yet placed these items up for auction but plan on doing so Wednesday. I have attached a photograph of the boxes that I took before I left Detroit. The specs are as follows:
Two 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
8GB (4x2GB)
None
1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
None
None
None
ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB
Two 18x SuperDrives
None
None
Apple Wireless Mighty Mouse
Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad (English) and User's Guide
AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi Card with 802.11n
These are 8 core systems that retail for $5269.00 each. Would you like to make an offer before we place them on eBay? We prefer this rather than unlisting items because this seems to upset many bidders on Email who protest with nasty Emails.
You also requested a receipt for your $5,000 payment from earlier today. You should have received a receipt directly from Paypal for your payment. Otherwise, please see below.
Thank you again for your business. It was a pleasure working with you and your group today.
Payment Received (Unique Transaction ID #2Y060694FG409601Y)
Sent by:
james haefner
Buyer Email:
[email protected]
Payment Sent to:
[email protected]

Amount received:
$5,000.00 USD
Fee amount:
-$145.30 USD
Net amount:
$4,854.70 USD

Date:
Apr. 13, 2009
Time:
13:33:28 EDT
Status:
Completed
-
Since I've never purchased off ebay, I didn't understand if haefnerphoto lost his 5 grand?
Would really suck if he did...
-
I lost 5000.00 on the monitors and 2400.00 on the towers. Jim
-
Jesus, that´s a scandal. I have only bought the very rare airline ticket via the web and some photo supplies from a company that I know has been around for years and has a pro reputation to maintain.
I understand that I am ancient, out of touch and generally not of this world, but on the other hand, my scepticism has saved my pocket.
I also saw on TV news today that credit card companies are beginning to welch on paying customers back if travel companies etc. go bust and the bookings have been made via credit card; despite what seems to be a fairly straightforward law (in the UK), they embark upon a series of evasive letters designed to weaken customer resolve to the point where the customer gives up and abandons the chase.
In my opinion, any such behaviour should render those card companies liable to severe governmental penalties and even possible closure. The bigger the mothereffers, the more severe should be the penalty.
Rob C
EDIT: You may have lost money, James, but they haven´t been able to steal your talent.
-
I have a related experience. I won and paid for a 5D MkII in January. The seller had lots of positive feedback and the price was good - not great but good. And they claimed to have it in stock.
It quickly became apparent that that was not the case. After almost two months of promises of "next week" or whatever, I opened a resolution center case. I demanded a refund, and they claimed to have sent it via IBAN transfer, which never arrived. Finally they sent a physical cheque (piece of paper, haven't seen one of those since the 90s). Went to my bank, and they were as confused as me what to do with it - this is 2009 after all... It's currently being processed, and hopefully it won't bounce.
Lesson learned: never pay via IBAN on big ticket items. If I paid with CC, I could've disputed the charge and be done with it.
-
Out of curiosity, when checking on feedback through ebay, do you guys look to see what kind of things the seller has sold in the past (assuming they sold something in the past 60 days)?
-
Monday I'll post the ebay auction page (it's on one of my machines at the studio). Hopefully this might prevent someone else from being scammed in a similiar manner. I don't recall all the items but there was an Ipod or two. Keep in mind I had quite a few actual conversations with the seller and he always said the right things. (Naturally!) There's also some more email communication on the studio machine I'll post too. Jim
-
When I sold my 1Ds (while it was still current) on ebay I specified pickup for cash only. We met in a service station outside town and I gave him a box, he gave me an envelope stuffed with cash. We both checked our stuff and any second I expected the rozzers to fall on us and arrest us for drug dealing. That's certainly what it looked like!
-
Jesus, that´s a scandal. I have only bought the very rare airline ticket via the web and some photo supplies from a company that I know has been around for years and has a pro reputation to maintain.
I understand that I am ancient, out of touch and generally not of this world, but on the other hand, my scepticism has saved my pocket.
I also saw on TV news today that credit card companies are beginning to welch on paying customers back if travel companies etc. go bust and the bookings have been made via credit card; despite what seems to be a fairly straightforward law (in the UK), they embark upon a series of evasive letters designed to weaken customer resolve to the point where the customer gives up and abandons the chase.
In my opinion, any such behaviour should render those card companies liable to severe governmental penalties and even possible closure. The bigger the mothereffers, the more severe should be the penalty.
Rob C
EDIT: You may have lost money, James, but they haven´t been able to steal your talent.
Rob, I've found that the best way to get round this is to immediately threaten the lawyer and then get the lawyer to contact them if it doesn't work. Costs but it's usually worth it.
-
Rob, I've found that the best way to get round this is to immediately threaten the lawyer and then get the lawyer to contact them if it doesn't work. Costs but it's usually worth it.
I used a lawyer, once, to try chasing up an invoice that had been rejected. I lost the payment, lost the client and had to pay the damned lawyer on top. So in my book, lawyers are part of the problem and not the solution.
This might sound unfair to lawyers, so I´d better amplify a little.
It was a travel brochure shoot, the one after the Costa Brave faking written about in another thread, and I had been contracted by the ad agency to work for a week. During the shoot, the company´s foreign manager, whom I knew from the previous shoot and who had accompanied me during that first shoot, informed me that there was no way we could complete the job within a week. As the previous shoot, almost exactly the same, had taken two weeks of work, we both knew the reality of the job, and so I told him that if he cleared it back in the UK I was willing to continue over a second week. This was done, and I finished the job and sent in my invoice. The ad agency waited some longish while and then contacted me about the second week. You can almost smell it coming, can´t you?
The second week had been authorised by the tour operator but not by the ad agency. As principal contractor, they were not constrained by nor committed to anything the end client agreed with me. In short, I was effed. I lost all that I had earned on the trip as well as the goodwill and client - the ad agency, which never used me again until many years later, when they had to because one of their fashion clients, for whom I worked separately, instructed them to so do for his work.
And what about my lawyer? Do you really think he didn´t realise at once that I had no case, that permission had not come from the right source? If he did not know, he shouldn´t have been in practice; if he did know yet was willing to string me along, and his invoice upwards, with a series of letters to both ad agency and tour operator, I believe he was at least guilty of negligence if not blatant fraud. Whatever, I made a total profit of zero on that fortnight´s work, the lawyer took it all.
To be kind, perhaps he was teaching a naive young man a lesson in life.
Rob C
-
Out of curiosity, when checking on feedback through ebay, do you guys look to see what kind of things the seller has sold in the past (assuming they sold something in the past 60 days)?
I always check feedback and would never consider buying from a seller with less than 99% feedback and less than 10 transactions.
In my case, the seller had 12 feedbacks they were more than 3 months old. It didn't seem suspicious at all because the seller
was telling how he was transferring the warranty ect. It seemed totally legit.
As a rule I will never ever buy from a seller that does not accept paypal. It is important to have that kind of protection should
anything go wrong.
-
I once tried selling something on ebay and stated absolutely no international buyers but the buyer who was registered in the UK turned out to be based in Nigeria.
The buyer demanded that he send me a cheque for £5000, cash it in and then deduct the amount from the sale and forward the remaining balance to him along with the product. wtf!
-
Ah, that is a well-known scam. You end up with a loss in cash as well as losing the item. I haven done almost 200 transactions on Ebay up until 22K USD and have never once been scammed. Maybe my time is still to come. The sound of James experience is horrifying, it sounds like a very legitimate deal and he got scammed.
I never buy a big ticket item from anyone with low feedback. I always contact them and ask around. I never trust any seller in principle so I am suspicious about everything. I have been walking away from many things that I simply did not trust.
OTOH, there are also a lot of reliable and friendly sellers.
What I find striking is the lack of commitment from Ebay to their legitimate buyers and sellers. Have you ever tried reporting scams? It is so deep in the system that probably most have given up before they ever report something. That should be 1 button on the auction page itself. I have been busy reporting fraudulent auctions for a while. I was able to find at least a dozen within an hour and reported those. It took Ebay the better part of a day to get rid of them. Are they really incapable of hiring people that try to find scam auctions themselves? Has anyone checked what an obscene amount of money Ebay makes? I guess they should be able to do more on fraud prevention but IMO it is not high enough on their list.
-
Ebay is just a hellhole now. I do use it for old software, computer parts, the occasional impulse buy(Atari 7200 plus a wad of games, for instance!), but never for anything over 50-100 unless it's a long-standing E-business. Well, not unless it's local to me and I can look at the thing first(done this with instruments and two vehicles - just limit the search to 25-50 miles or so) Went to see them first and bid that evening. One was literally 6 blocks from my house - nice car, too..
Won't deal with PayPal. Cash in hand, local pickup at a nearby coffee shop if it's an individual. Never had a problem. JUst asking "I'm local - can I pick it up?" gets rid of the scammers.(though also limits my options as well - so be it)
Craigslist is also good - the rule there is cash and carry. But there's a TON of sifting to do as well. But they do now have a "nearby areas" function for searches now so you can easily hit a whole area or state quickly.
-
Frightful this misadventure.
I buy and sell on Ebay, mostly sell rather.
I really dislike Ebay, what it represents, how it is done.
I don't see any other choice though.
I have sold some things through this forum which is ideal.
Yet low demand objects like old Hasselblad film stuff , there is little interest, and not much on Ebay either.
With the new system of feedback where only the buyer can leave negative feedback , the whole feedback system means much less.
Recently I had a buyer come to pick up the a Broncolor flash (currently listed on Ebay) and they were late for the pick up time slotted between my shoot, refused to pay in cash or Paypal, only by cheque, wanted to fully test the flash while the model was dripping wet on set, asked for a bill including tax, even though agreed to they wouldn't take it without a bill on the spot when I offered to mail it.
This person walked away, never paid, yet left negative feedback.
Considering I only sell things in pristine condition and only as described, even go to the extent of reimbursing the difference if the billed shipping costs are higher than actual costs, Ebay has gone sour.
As an above poster said trying to help Ebay stop scams and bad buyers /sellers from continuing is made difficult to do if at all, hence by admission they are interested only in a short term cash flow loosing many honest buyers/sellers that made it what it is in the first place.
Sad to hear these problems> it takes away from good faith from us photographers on this forum.
-
Much as I hate ebay and do not intend to use it again I feel compelled to tell you of a transaction which had the opposite outcome (sort of restored my faith in human nature).
Several years ago I saw an advert on ebay from a UK seller (I am in Northern Ireland), with zero feedback, for a Hasselblad H system (3 lenses, body and P25 digital back all unused and at stupidly low prices). Against my better judgement, and even though I had been stung by some Californian guy for Fuji GX 617 kit that never existed, I decided to bid for two of the lenses (210 and 300) both at the time very rare to find secondhand. I won the bids but did not meet the minimum requested price so several emails and ultimately phone conversations ensued between the seller and myself and we agreed on a price for the two very similar to my bids.
Whilst talking to the seller I was given the most implausible excuse as to why he was selling the gear. He had bought it for a friend as a gift (his friend was a "member of the Royal Family" although I was never told who) and unfortunately his friend actually already had the stuff!!! Not once did I think this was genuine but I have to say I was impressed with the daring nature of his story.
I had his mobile and his landline home number, I checked his address matched his other details, including the suspected affluence of someone bearing gifts so expensive, but there was no way I would be able to view the goods nor collect myself (due to geography and my time constraints).
We had many conversations over a 3 week period while he was out of the country on holiday, and I checked with the Phase rep in UK as to legitimacy of warranty on back ("all purchased in Calumet in NY"). The rep had heard the same story from another potential purchaser a few weeks previously who had obviously decided not to bother going any further.
Seller recommended an Escrow service and after lots of humming and hah-ing I decided to go ahead still beyond my better judgement. By this time I had got to know the seller a little, or at least I thought I did, and there was nothing I could dislike about him. He was consistent with his stories about purchase and always very pleasant, not at all trying to sell the stuff. He really did seem genuine. Would the goods turn out likewise?
Anyway after clicking the appropriate buttons and holding my breath for several days the goods arrived and were exactly as specified (zero actuations on both lenses, both boxed and brand new). My faith in human nature was somewhat restored. As far as I was concerned the seller did not deserve all the negative messages on the ebay site just because he had a highly unlikely reason for selling. He was as good as his word on everything we discussed. As far as I know his story was true - why would you make something like that up if you were selling genuine gear - and I am even more intrigued now.
A few weeks later he phoned me to see if I or anyone I knew would like to by the P25 back as he was stuck with it. I wanted it but couldn't come anywhere near the asking price so I told him that if he couldn't shift it to give me a call and we might be able to come to some agreement (I had a ridiculously low price in mind, as you would). Several months later I decided to phone him just to check on progress and he was very apologetic and explained that, no, he couldn't find a buyer so he eventually GAVE it to a friend!!! I could have cried.
Regards
Richard
-
I have noticed a lot of fraudulent sellers and it is getting worse with each day it seems...
I found that there are 1 cent auctions for such things as desktop wallpaper images, cell phone ring tones or backgrounds and other very, very unusual items that are 1 cent AND come with an instant digital download. Scammers use these auctions to rack up a good 30 or so positive feedbacks and then sit on that account until the auctions are over and no one can see their previous purchases (the item gets grayed out after a while and you cannot see what they purchased)... THAT is when a nice NIB Hasselblad H3D II 60mp camera goes up for sale at a steal of a price....
So watch out for their tactics and be careful with your money. I found it better to purchase things via other methods and not use eBay or Craigslist or anything like that nowadays.
-
TIPS TO BEAT THE SCAMMERS
Sorry to hear everyone's problems...
FWIW Here are my tips, I hope they help some people avoid losing out. I've done roughly 300 transactions on eBay, bought and sold all 100%.
1. don't go looking to buy a digital back or high end DSLR new or 2nd hand on eBay.... with the exception of Calumet (silly prices) good, high end kit can safely be found and Adorama, KEH etc... and places like Capture Integration and Digital Transitions. Sure look at Craigslist, if you can go and see the back, in the guy's home or studio, do it... Ebay too, if it's very local and you can call the fella up, take a peek before the auction end date.
2. as said before, if it's too good a deal, then it is... to good a deal to be true..!
3. use eBay for what it was intended for, selling off that old tripod and head, unused lens, spare RAM etc.... It's not the place for new kit. Unless you want a cover for your phone or a battery charger from China (ALL my new, cheap purchases from China etc have all arrived and been perfect BTW), don't buy new high end stuff on eBay... you wouldn't buy an iPhone there would you..?
4. if some one is 'selling due to upgrade' and you cannot call them, think about it... often you get a great trade in on an upgrade... so why is he risking a sale on eBay...?
5. paying a little more from a dealer with a guarantee is well worth it in the end, here is a real, 'right now' example:
Since the launch of the Phase One 645 and their collaboration with Mamiya, a good, second hand Mamiya 45mm AF is now hard to come by cheaply, this is a good thing for Mamiya users and owners... so roughly one a week comes up on eBay by a private seller who seems legit... lots of interest, a few questions and they normally go for just under $400 USD plus shipping.
Adorama and KEH sell the same thing 2nd hand for $430-$500 USD, plus shipping and or tax....
On this evidence it doesn't make sense to 'risk' ebay, buy from the dealer, get a warranty/guarantee and sleep at night.
In other words we need to do our research a little bit more than we do to save money.
If I had seen the 'almost liquidated ' Mac display's on ebay I would have worried... No pic of the screens.... can this person actually sell them...? Two alarm bells before we even get started...
Hope this doesn't prove too negative and that it can help...
Best,
Steve
-
Won't deal with PayPal. Cash in hand, local pickup at a nearby coffee shop if it's an individual. Never had a problem. JUst asking "I'm local - can I pick it up?" gets rid of the scammers.(though also limits my options as well - so be it)
Paypal are absolute bastards. I stopped using ebay a few years ago but earlier this year my wife wanted to sell something so we opened a new account. The item we sold was shipped to Germany and the buyer was playing silly-buggers with leaving feedback so I contacted Paypal asking them what it would take to release the money from the sale.
I was told I either had to wait for positive feedback or wait until I had (get this!) 100 positive transactions or otherwise I would have to 21 days for the money to be released, providing I didn't get negative feedback. Naturally I was pretty peeved about the idea of waiting 21 days and they explained to me it would give me a better impression of trading on ebay if I waited this long (the amount was roughly £1000 btw).
Bottom line, I will never use paypal again.
-
Here's the Ebay listing that caught my attention, as well as, a continuation of the email communications. Being in Detroit, I thought the story sounded plausible. By the way, the seller is no longer a registered ebay user, what a surprise! Jim
Hi Jim,
I can understand your reason for concern. This is in fact why we use Paypal as an intermediary for transactions. They protect both seller and buyer in the event of a dispute. Your purchase price is covered 100% minus any shipping fees (in this case there are none.) For example shall we say you purchase the items and find out later that they are not as I described them. You have 45 days to file a dispute on Paypal which places a hold on the funds until both parties are satisfied the issue has been resolved.
Let me try to retrieve the serial numbers you have requested from the owners. This may take a little time but I'll get to work on it.
The company that failed to launch was going to be titled: "Stark Creative".
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Brian

From: James Haefner <[email protected]>
To: Brian Olsen <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:28:38 AM
Subject: Re: Five, 30" Apple Displays & Info on Mac Pro systems as requested.
Re: Five, 30" Apple Displays & Info on Mac Pro systems as requested. Brian, I’m still apprehensive. I’d like more information concerning the equipment, serial numbers would help, as well as, the name of the company that went out of business. Two of my associates will pick up the monitors and towers, Lowell Jackson and Brian Depoy. Thanks, Jim
On 4/14/09 7:40 AM, "Brian Olsen" <[email protected]> wrote:
Good Morning Jim,
I can truly appreciate your concern. Since this group occupies no physical office at this address it may be difficult to visit. They currently occupy a secure storage locker at this location where their remaining equipment is stored while we liquidate it. My apologies in advance but keeping up with questions regarding all of these auctions has almost become sort of a part time job in itself on top of my normal workload. You may retain the Mac Pros for a 25% deposit on our agreed purchase price through Paypal. This will prevent them from going up on auction at their scheduled time of 8:00AM EST tomorrow morning. Certified check upon delivery for the remaining balance would be very acceptable. This check may be made out to: Sterling Enterprises, LLC
Might I have the name of the individual whom I will be meeting on Friday to complete our transaction? Please Email me with any other concerns you may have.

From: james haefner <[email protected]>
To: Brian Olsen <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 10:10:59 PM
Subject: Re: Five, 30" Apple Displays & Info on Mac Pro systems as requested.
Re: Five, 30" Apple Displays & Info on Mac Pro systems as requested. Brian, Just to be on the safe side I’d like one of my assistants to visit the office tomorrow. I see that it’s a office support services group, which business should they refer to when arriving. Thanks, Jim
[attachment=13267:Picture_1.jpg]
[attachment=13266:Picture_2.jpg]
-
You may retain the Mac Pros for a 25% deposit on our agreed purchase price through Paypal. This will prevent them from going up on auction at their scheduled time of 8:00AM EST tomorrow morning. Certified check upon delivery for the remaining balance would be very acceptable. This check may be made out to: Sterling Enterprises, LLC
That's where you know something is off. I never deal with PayPal since I can't back out of it if there's a major issue. If you had to drive there, you agree to pay cash in person on delivery. And bring 2-3 friends just in case. It's why I ask. If they can't arrange for in-person C.O.D., or start making up excuses, I bail. Scammers will 99% of the time start making up junk at this question, while legit people won't - it's sort of a default litmus test I ask everyone.
-
Someone posted earlier that scammers have software that generates false favorable feedback. Is there also software that falsely inflates the number of transactions a seller has entered into? Or the number of years he has been selling?
When bidding I always look at the percentage rating of favorable feedback and also the number of transactions entered into over several years. My assumption has been that if the seller has been listing for several years he is most likely legitimate.
Someone else pointed out the small difference between some eBay auction prices and buying from a dealer. I have been looking to buy a used Canon 90mm T/s lens for a while and have bid in several auctions. To my great surprise the winning bid has only been a couple of hundred dollars less than buying the lens brand new. ???? It seems to me to make little sense to take the risk of buying a used lens, sight unseen, without a warranty to save a couple of hundred dollars. Am I missing something here?
-
In my case, I lost $2100 for a 1ds Mk ii sold by someone who hijacked another person's account.
So this wasn't a case of false feedback.
I am looking for another place to buy a used 1ds mark ii
I have dealt with KEH before and they are usually conservative on grading. However,I saw a pretty rough looking 1ds Mkii on ebay for sale from them with an EX+ rating. This makes me skeptical about buying this particular camera from them.
What about Adorama and B&H for their used cameras ? Who is better... in your opinion.
-
In my case, I lost $2100 for a 1ds Mk ii sold by someone who hijacked another person's account.
So this wasn't a case of false feedback.
I am looking for another place to buy a used 1ds mark ii
I have dealt with KEH before and they are usually conservative on grading. However,I saw a pretty rough looking 1ds Mkii on ebay for sale from them with an EX+ rating. This makes me skeptical about buying this particular camera from them.
What about Adorama and B&H for their used cameras ? Who is better... in your opinion.
I wouldn't buy used from Adorama, bad experience and I'm not the only one.
-
I wouldn't buy used from Adorama, bad experience and I'm not the only one.
I also had a bad experience with Adorma years ago. I've always bought from BH since then. No problems ever with BH.
-
Hmm. Adorama has a demo 1ds Markiii for a good price. I would hate to take the risk on getting burned again though.
bleh.
Maybe I will go with KEH afterall
-
TIPS TO BEAT THE SCAMMERS
Sorry to hear everyone's problems...
FWIW Here are my tips, I hope they help some people avoid losing out. I've done roughly 300 transactions on eBay, bought and sold all 100%.
1. don't go looking to buy a digital back or high end DSLR new or 2nd hand on eBay.... with the exception of Calumet (silly prices) good, high end kit can safely be found and Adorama, KEH etc... and places like Capture Integration and Digital Transitions. Sure look at Craigslist, if you can go and see the back, in the guy's home or studio, do it... Ebay too, if it's very local and you can call the fella up, take a peek before the auction end date.
2. as said before, if it's too good a deal, then it is... to good a deal to be true..!
3. use eBay for what it was intended for, selling off that old tripod and head, unused lens, spare RAM etc.... It's not the place for new kit. Unless you want a cover for your phone or a battery charger from China (ALL my new, cheap purchases from China etc have all arrived and been perfect BTW), don't buy new high end stuff on eBay... you wouldn't buy an iPhone there would you..?
4. if some one is 'selling due to upgrade' and you cannot call them, think about it... often you get a great trade in on an upgrade... so why is he risking a sale on eBay...?
5. paying a little more from a dealer with a guarantee is well worth it in the end, here is a real, 'right now' example:
Since the launch of the Phase One 645 and their collaboration with Mamiya, a good, second hand Mamiya 45mm AF is now hard to come by cheaply, this is a good thing for Mamiya users and owners... so roughly one a week comes up on eBay by a private seller who seems legit... lots of interest, a few questions and they normally go for just under $400 USD plus shipping.
Adorama and KEH sell the same thing 2nd hand for $430-$500 USD, plus shipping and or tax....
On this evidence it doesn't make sense to 'risk' ebay, buy from the dealer, get a warranty/guarantee and sleep at night.
In other words we need to do our research a little bit more than we do to save money.
If I had seen the 'almost liquidated ' Mac display's on ebay I would have worried... No pic of the screens.... can this person actually sell them...? Two alarm bells before we even get started...
Hope this doesn't prove too negative and that it can help...
Best,
Steve
All this is true, but I made excellent deals on eBay.
A Noctilux bought from a collector for a ridiculously low price,
advertised as pristine, and it was.
A Rollei Integral II like new, with a Schneider 80, like new,
for a low price too, and it's working like a charm, since 2 years
(1200 $, meaning for me 900 €, namely 1/4 of its price new).
When buying that kind of gear, I always ask the seller
his phone number, I Google him to see if he registers.
99% of the good sellers are selling since a while, and
on different places. So you can easily trace their history.
I check also carefully his feedbacks, his location, his mail
address, etc. As soon as I detect a discrepancy, I stay clear.
This never failed me so far.
My only delusion was for a 60 £ cell phone presented
as new, which arrived filthy, scratched, but in good
working condition.
I warned eBay, Paypal, etc. and left him a killing feedback.
He never reappeared.
-
I have noticed a lot of fraudulent sellers and it is getting worse with each day it seems...
I found that there are 1 cent auctions for such things as desktop wallpaper images, cell phone ring tones or backgrounds and other very, very unusual items that are 1 cent AND come with an instant digital download. Scammers use these auctions to rack up a good 30 or so positive feedbacks and then sit on that account until the auctions are over and no one can see their previous purchases (the item gets grayed out after a while and you cannot see what they purchased)... THAT is when a nice NIB Hasselblad H3D II 60mp camera goes up for sale at a steal of a price....
So watch out for their tactics and be careful with your money. I found it better to purchase things via other methods and not use eBay or Craigslist or anything like that nowadays.
Very true. Everybody should write the item and price in the feedback "Canon 1 Ds (USD500) as described. Honest seller." and not just A++++++++
-
Paypal are absolute bastards. I stopped using ebay a few years ago but earlier this year my wife wanted to sell something so we opened a new account. The item we sold was shipped to Germany and the buyer was playing silly-buggers with leaving feedback so I contacted Paypal asking them what it would take to release the money from the sale.
I was told I either had to wait for positive feedback or wait until I had (get this!) 100 positive transactions or otherwise I would have to 21 days for the money to be released, providing I didn't get negative feedback. Naturally I was pretty peeved about the idea of waiting 21 days and they explained to me it would give me a better impression of trading on ebay if I waited this long (the amount was roughly £1000 btw).
Bottom line, I will never use paypal again.
Hi,
Thank your lucky stars you are not in Australia!
Here Ebay Aust has made it COMPULSORY for sellers user PayPal on their Listings and when you list, the Cursed PayPal is the FIRST Payment preference by default--whether you want it or not.
The associated fees/delays and consumer unfriendliness of PP is a blight-particularly to the honest seller. It is no more than an unregulated Bank scam ripoff.
We are all tarred with the same brush now according to Ebay.
They're right Paypal SUCKS!
D
-
Hi,
Thank your lucky stars you are not in Australia!
Here Ebay Aust has made it COMPULSORY for sellers user PayPal on their Listings and when you list, the Cursed PayPal is the FIRST Payment preference by default--whether you want it or not.
The associated fees/delays and consumer unfriendliness of PP is a blight-particularly to the honest seller. It is no more than an unregulated Bank scam ripoff.
We are all tarred with the same brush now according to Ebay.
They're right Paypal SUCKS!
D
Nothing forbids you to set an account in another country, providing an address,
where Paypal is not mandatory.
As long as you're honest with your buyers/sellers, what's the heck ?
-
Hmm. Adorama has a demo 1ds Markiii for a good price. I would hate to take the risk on getting burned again though.
bleh.
Maybe I will go with KEH afterall
I noticed that Adorama sells also on Ebay but they have a scary warranty. It say "mechanical warranty" which leads me to suspect they will not cover problems with the electronics in cameras.
I highly recommend KEH. They do rate their equipment conservatively but if you don't like what you get, a refund is quick to get.
John
-
From my experience with EBAY (several sales and one or two buys) it seems there are more bad buyers than sellers, EBAY also does not seem to be in a particular hurry to credit your account although charges to it are lighting fast. I listed a Nikon D2H for sale with a buy now price, someone bit on it within a couple of hours. They, of course were in Nigeria so I referred them to my USA only shipping policy. To make a long story short it took EBAY 4 months to refund the sales fee..the best excuse by far was that my CC info wasn't current..welll, they had no problem in using it to apply charges to the account.
-
Hmm. Adorama has a demo 1ds Markiii for a good price. I would hate to take the risk on getting burned again though.
bleh.
Maybe I will go with KEH afterall
I have done business with both Adorama & B&H in person & via web/mail order. Both are very good, have had no problem with either. In person I prefer Adorama.
Denis
-
Paypal has decided that they will NOT give me my money back... even though the item was sold on a hijacked seller account. They said the seller provided proof that they sent a package.
I have gone to my CC to have them reverse the charges on Paypal.
-
Good luck, my CC company (Discover) said that as long as there was no fradulent charging (meaning someone stole your card and used it) they will pay Paypal. My situation is that Paypal has a few more days to hear from the seller(scam artist) before they find in my favor. That doesn't mean they'll reimburse me though. Jim
-
Paypal told me my case was in the bag too. Don't hold your breath
-
As requested by some bone heads here in the LL forums, Aliases for sure. I will drop the Richard comment.
In any case , supposedly he turned himself in...:+}
Snook
Could you please let us know who the ebay dealer was in order to stay away from them.
Thanks
-
Paypal has decided that they will NOT give me my money back... even though the item was sold on a hijacked seller account. They said the seller provided proof that they sent a package.
I have gone to my CC to have them reverse the charges on Paypal.
Hey Dolce Moda, I have a 1DS MKII to sell, but it's a pity I am in England (and I do want cash only), precisely for the reasons exposed in this thread.
If any professional photographer in the UK is interested and wants to buy a 1DS MKII in person from a reputable photographer, please contact me and avoid the Ebay thing altogether.
I've bought a few expensive cameras from Ebay, but I've always collected and paid in person from other photographers. So far, no problems.
Edward
-
Got scammed for $3000 last year, seller had good feedback, never sent the item. Paypal sent $200. Fortunately my credit card co. re-imbursed me for the full amount.
-
Peter, Which credit card was it? Discover tells me they have no responsibility in the matter. Jim
-
I live in Canada, and the only real positive experiences I've had with eBay was when I purchased DSLR's from Canadian companies (Henry's and Robinson's Cameras) that maintain brick & mortar offices. I bought a open box Canon EOS 5D and a new Canon EOS 40D in the past.
Tonight, I bought an open box Canon EOS 5D Mark II from Henry's
I've never had any problems with either of those companies, but I've had bad experiences with other sellers, mostly to do with little white lies about the condition of the equipment they were selling, in the case of a couple of notebook computers, some scammers tried to make off with my money. Weeks of fighting with Paypal got all but 15% of my money back. I refuse to use paypal now as a result. Henry's lets you pay them directly by credit card, and there are no conversion fees.
I want to sell my 40D now, and a few lenses I won't have any use for now, like an EF 28-135mm IS and an EF 20-35mm. But I am very leery about selling them via eBay. I think I will post the sales locally and forget all about the eBay experience altogether.
-
I thought I'd report a happy ending to my fraud situation. Last Friday I found that Paypal had refunded 7400.00 to Discover who credited my account. It was like Christmas around the studio!! I did find out that the detective working on the case (for our local police) had identified the person and got some background on him. He hasn't been apprehended and there's always the possibility that someone else was using his laptop but here's what we know about Brian Olsen. This info came from an interview the detective had with his mother and the story is that he abruptly left his home, business and dog and disappeared. She thought he was living in a motel in Florida and that's what the detective was able to corraborate somehow. He actually had a 100% positive feedback with Ebay before this but apparently has decided to try to live dishonestly now. Paypal isn't giving me much info since they've refunded my money but it's my understanding that they paid out around 10,000.00 to the guy before he closed his account and disappeared again. The detective informed me that around 5 different people were victims of his scam (through subpoenaed Paypal documents). Anyways, it looks as though Paypal does stand behind their system! We feel very fortunate. Jim
-
Jim,
That's great news! I'm so glad you finally got some satisfaction.
-
I sell camera gear to KEH.com, not eBay, or anywhere else.
Of course, they're also one of the best places in the world to BUY used camera gear, and they're very conservative with the condition ratings. A "mint" or "Like New" lens to the average person on eBay would probably be rated as "EX+" or "EX" at KEH, which are 3 and 4 levels down from their Like New rating.
-
Those feedbacks bear examination.
I was looking at an old 300mm Symmar lens on ebay. Was stated to be "mint" and in "perfect working condition!"
I went down the guy's sterling 100% feedback list and looked at the items...a couple dozen $0.50 postcards bought over just a few days and then...a 300mm Symmar described as "poor condition, hazy optics, sleeks on front element, shutter sticks at low speeds." Bargain basement price. The picture was exactly the same picture in the current ad I was looking at, but of course the additional closeup pictures in the original ad showing the hazing and sleeks were left out. The markup for this "flip sale" was several hundred percent.
-
Those feedbacks bear examination.
I was looking at an old 300mm Symmar lens on ebay. Was stated to be "mint" and in "perfect working condition!"
I went down the guy's sterling 100% feedback list and looked at the items...a couple dozen $0.50 postcards bought over just a few days and then...a 300mm Symmar described as "poor condition, hazy optics, sleeks on front element, shutter sticks at low speeds." Bargain basement price. The picture was exactly the same picture in the current ad I was looking at, but of course the additional closeup pictures in the original ad showing the hazing and sleeks were left out. The markup for this "flip sale" was several hundred percent.
That's the deal with ebait, got to do your homework. I've been buying and selling for close to ten years now with mostly good results. Heck, even bought a lens from a guy who linked to his auction here. Ebay's no worse than most things in society, and unfortunately there has always been an attraction to The Lazy Man's Way To Riches(remember Joe Carbo?). Their constantly changing policies can be aggravating, and they have also been skewing things towards the mass marketers to the detriment of the casual seller.
When asked by the FBI why he robbed banks, Willie Sutton supposedly replied, "That's where the money is".
-
I try to avoid EBAY altogether. I recently sold a few lenses through the buy and sell on the fred miranda forums. It was quite an easy and positive experience. Buyers paid using paypal and everything was fine.
Yes, I bet some scammers lurk on forums like those BUT they are usually spotted, people there are quite vigilant. (same in a forum like this one
-
i recently sold a $900 lens through CL and used paypal. didnt insure it, the one time in 5+ years of selling USPS didnt come through shipping it. refunded the guy the money after having spending it on a new lens. i called paypal, they only care if the buyer received the package or not. thats what they use to decide to refund the buyers money. if it has shipped and is being delayed beyond my control, they still refund, only accepting signature proof that the buyer received it. sucks to be me, i accept the responsibility. but dont like that policy. they say the find the buyers will usually resent payment if the item finally arrives or ship it back and i honestly believed PP, but its alot of faith.
i also sold a camera to a guy in west europe/russia who didnt have PP in his country, provided a CC through email, which i processed at the studio and it went fine. CC company ALMOST didnt pay me because they thought it was too risky, but came through.
-
The OP said something about "Indonesia" which should have been warning enough...!
My wife and I had sold stuff on ebay for several years (not so much lately; turns out our return on items such as kids books wasn't worth the effort, though other odd items were profitable) without any fraud problems. Maybe had a non-paying bidder a few times, but again, no large ticket items. And the few times we actually bought something (games for the kid, etc.) all went well.
Now here is a funny story from a few years back that incorporates both CL and ebay:
We occasionally checked Craigslist for local garage sales so we could buy items to resell on ebay. One guy here in SoCal who was holding a garage sale listed (among other things) a vintage view camera. So since he had books and a camera, both of us were interested.
So we go to the sale, got some giveaway books and old newspapers (which was nice) and maybe my wife bought some books. I asked about the camera since I didn't see it. The guy went into the house and got it. Said he had sold it on ebay but the buyer never paid.
I forget the name of it but it was about 100 years old, in decent shape (a folding wooden view camera and large brass lens). I think I paid the guy $35 for it.
So I list it on ebay, and began getting bids. Suddenly, I get this angry, irate email from a guy in Canada who says, "Yeah, that sure was a rare find, but it's MY camera!" He sent along a copy of an older ebay auction proving he had purchased it from the garage sale guy, and never received it. The auction photos and details did indeed match up (!).
Obviously I was in a bit of a bind. I bought the thing in good faith. But now I see someone else had also paid for it. I did have the option of saying "Too bad", but felt this would cause trouble with my own auction since the original buyer would probably step in and contact my bidders. Not to mention the bad vibes.
I decided to reimburse the guy in Canada what he paid for the camera, $42 IIRC (turns out he actually made a bit on the deal since he already got some reimbursement from whatever payment method he had used, but I missed that detail at the time). I went on to sell the camera for over $100 (for a decent profit, all told).
Crazy story, but it ended well.
Oh, from checking out other ebay auctions posted by the garage sale guy I determined he had stiffed some other folks on ebay too – I remember seeing their paid-for-and-not-shipped items at the garage sale too. So I contacted them and referred them to the guy. I think he disappeared after that; I haven't looked for him lately. He was also selling property on Craigslist...
So yeah, I think I would avoid ebay purchases except for small items and use reputable dealers such as those mentioned earlier or local folks. And you do know they own Paypal? That explains their preference for it. (We never had any problems with PP on ebay, and still use it for other transactions, but tend to keep a low amount of cash on the card just in case something weird happens.)