Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Ed Jack on March 23, 2009, 06:34:58 am
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Hi,
maybe someone (Yair ?) can tell me if there are any decent "independent reviews" of the latest high end leaf backs ? There is nothing wrong with L-landscape being a bit Phase 1 centric, its Michael's site and he happens to use Phase one products who also have a huge slice of this market, so i am not suggesting a bias, but maybe a counter point. After all the Leaf competator to the P65+ (Afi 10) has if I am not mistaken the same horizontal resolution as the Phase One P65+, so in terms of landscape photography maybe should be seen as in the same ball park as the much touted Phase product. More to the point - doesn't it cost half as much ? Yes sure it doesn't have any pixel binning technology, but the Leaf backs have been doing iso 800 fairly sucessfully for a while and for all we know the Aptus II/AFi 10 flagship product may have raised the bar here again ?! And beside if we are all landscape die hards, then these "high iso properties" are a bit moot are they not ? Given Leaf's legacy colour acuracy and now a much improved and compatible work flow and software (and often quoted superior frame rates), wouldn't it be nice for somone with one of these backs to get together with a P65+ owner adn do a bit of side by side, or even just an "opinion piece". Have you been [promised one to "play with" yet Michael ?
Failing that, is there a nice overview some where else on the web with sample picture posted by in the field photographers ?
cheers
EJ
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Frank Doorhof has a blog where he sometimes posts detailed information on his equipment:
http://www.doorhof.nl/blog/ (http://www.doorhof.nl/blog/)
He uses Leaf backs, I believe. He is also a member here.
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Hi,
I shot with the Afi-10 on several occasions but those were not final versions (beta).
What I can say is that the quality was very nice, I would advise to stay below f22 probarbly f16 tops but when you do the detail is stunning.
Dynamic range is wonderful and the quality of the files is very good.
I normally shoot with the Aptus22 and you can push the files arround in photoshop without them breaking up, the Afi-10 files did the same.
I did not test ISO800 but I did on the Afi-II7 from which you can find a small review and some samples on my blog.
Hope this helps.
An Aptus 10 is HIGH on my whishlist, would love to mount it on the RZ67ProII.
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Hi,
maybe someone (Yair ?) can tell me if there are any decent "independent reviews" of the latest high end leaf backs ? There is nothing wrong with L-landscape being a bit Phase 1 centric, its Michael's site and he happens to use Phase one products who also have a huge slice of this market, so i am not suggesting a bias, but maybe a counter point. After all the Leaf competator to the P65+ (Afi 10) has if I am not mistaken the same horizontal resolution as the Phase One P65+, so in terms of landscape photography maybe should be seen as in the same ball park as the much touted Phase product. More to the point - doesn't it cost half as much ? Yes sure it doesn't have any pixel binning technology, but the Leaf backs have been doing iso 800 fairly sucessfully for a while and for all we know the Aptus II/AFi 10 flagship product may have raised the bar here again ?! And beside if we are all landscape die hards, then these "high iso properties" are a bit moot are they not ? Given Leaf's legacy colour acuracy and now a much improved and compatible work flow and software (and often quoted superior frame rates), wouldn't it be nice for somone with one of these backs to get together with a P65+ owner adn do a bit of side by side, or even just an "opinion piece". Have you been [promised one to "play with" yet Michael ?
Failing that, is there a nice overview some where else on the web with sample picture posted by in the field photographers ?
cheers
EJ
Ed maybe the best independent review for you will be a proper demo of the AFi-II 10? Call Peartree (http://peartreephoto.com/peartree-contact-details.htm) I am sure they will gladly arrange it for you. At 9,000 pixels it actually offers a bit more than others in terms of horizontal resolution and in my tests I find "unbinned" high iso (up to 4,800) quite good for producing 20"X30" (300dpi) prints
Yair
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Ed maybe the best independent review for you will be a proper demo of the AFi-II 10? Call Peartree (http://peartreephoto.com/peartree-contact-details.htm) I am sure they will gladly arrange it for you. At 9,000 pixels it actually offers a bit more than others in terms of horizontal resolution and in my tests I find "unbinned" high iso (up to 4,800) quite good for producing 20"X30" (300dpi) prints
Yair
Hi Yair/Frank and others,
Thanks for the tips, I'm in London at the end of next week, so will drop in. I might be persuaded to rent one for my next piece of work! Yes you are right Yair, when it comes to Horizontal resolution the Leaf product does have the "bragging rights" over let's say the nearest competator, curious since they are both Dalsa sensors (aren't they)? It's hard to believe that the huge premium you pay for the P65+ is just to implement sensor plus technology - can that really account for an $8K differential (especially with a worse display ) ?! I am curious to see how much the Aptus II's screen improvements have made outdoor working better over the first incarnation, has the battery life been affected by a bigger chip and brighter screen at all, or is that bit new too ?!
cheers
EJ
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Hi Yair/Frank and others,
Thanks for the tips, I'm in London at the end of next week, so will drop in. I might be persuaded to rent one for my next piece of work! Yes you are right Yair, when it comes to Horizontal resolution the Leaf product does have the "bragging rights" over let's say the nearest competator, curious since they are both Dalsa sensors (aren't they)? It's hard to believe that the huge premium you pay for the P65+ is just to implement sensor plus technology - can that really account for an $8K differential (especially with a worse display ) ?! I am curious to see how much the Aptus II's screen improvements have made outdoor working better over the first incarnation, has the battery life been affected by a bigger chip and brighter screen at all, or is that bit new too ?!
cheers
EJ
Well we give you SensorFlex technology in AFi-II 10 and Aptus-II 10, rotating sensor and a tilt screen in AFi-II, big sensor and bright(er) screen that do not consume more power...
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Hi,
maybe someone (Yair ?) can tell me if there are any decent "independent reviews" of the latest high end leaf backs ? There is nothing wrong with L-landscape being a bit Phase 1 centric, its Michael's site and he happens to use Phase one products who also have a huge slice of this market, so i am not suggesting a bias, but maybe a counter point.
Considering the huge price gap in favor of the Leaf, it would indeed be interesting to have it compared against the P65+.
Like most people here, I wouldn't care the least bit about better high iso performance (and even that doesn't seem obvious), so that the AptusII 10 is the only back outthere that I find potentially interesting.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Hi,
Is the Leaf back available in a Contax 645 mount? The new Leaf price reductions are very attractive.
Guy
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Yes: http://www.leaf-photography.com/imgs/uploa...iII-aptusII.pdf (http://www.leaf-photography.com/imgs/uploads/afi2/Connectivity_afiII-aptusII.pdf)
Why has no one stated this before:
Landscape photographers like high resolution backs:
1) The Aptus II 10 has a significantly larger Horizontal resolution chip that is proven on view cameras compared to the P65+
2) The Aptus II 10 costs $25K and the Phase Back costs $45K
So the question is, are you prepared to pay $20K for Sensor plus technology which you may never use ?!
Then there is the question of possibly a superior LCD screen, an internally rotating chip and maybe a marginally faster FPS shooting speed!!
On paper it seems like a better product at half the price, I'd hate to see the hyped up (over-hyped ?) P65+ dive a great product into second place (yes some of the things about the P65+ maybe great, but they are not exclusive - only the price )
Just to calrify what I mean, I don't think michael's review was partisan or over hyped or anything he calls it as he sees it - I don't doubt that hte P65 is the best back he has ever used and sure it was a well reasoned purchase (did he demo the Leaf product, did somethign put him off ?). Is the mamiya platform a big enough reason to spend an extra $20 ? What's to stop one buying a mamiya AFDIII at any rate ? Is the AFi-10 out of the window by default, if so why ?
Since this site is now the oricle of all things big sensor (no offense Frank, your site is great, but not as many visitors) it would be nice if somone offered a counter piece on the Leaf product and a direct comparision would definitely stop a forum brand based slanging match (we're above that?) - if the hard facts are there for all to see
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Ed Jack
I think part of the reason is that he lives in Toronto, where there are no Leaf dealers/support as far as I know.
The Phase and Hasselblad dealers are only minutes away.
am
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Hi,
My site is actually mainly my blog
But it's growing into more lately and I let it grow so to say.
So feel free to read and ask questions there, I'm hoping to test an APTUS10 in the coming months on the RZ.
Greetings,
Frank
www.doorhof.nl/blog
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Yes: http://www.leaf-photography.com/imgs/uploa...iII-aptusII.pdf (http://www.leaf-photography.com/imgs/uploads/afi2/Connectivity_afiII-aptusII.pdf)
I noticed the Leaf AFi-II 7/10 back is compatible with both the Hasselblad H1/2 & the Leaf/Sinar branded Hy6 cameras. Does the rotating sensor and tilt screen on the AFi-II module still work when attached to an H1/2? do you need a separate adapter when swapping from H body to a Hy6 body? or is it seamless?
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I noticed the Leaf AFi-II 7/10 back is compatible with both the Hasselblad H1/2 & the Leaf/Sinar branded Hy6 cameras. Does the rotating sensor and tilt screen on the AFi-II module still work when attached to an H1/2? do you need a separate adapter when swapping from H body to a Hy6 body? or is it seamless?
The AFI II 6/7/10 back is only compatible with the AFi/Hy6 platform. Only the AFi II 6/7/10 back allows for the rotating sensor on the square frame of the AFi.
The Aptus II 6/7/10 back is compatible in specific for mounts for H, Mamiya/Phase, and Contax 645 platforms. No Aptus II 6/7/10 backs have a rotating sensor as these body's have rectangular (645) frames.
The tilt screen is only available on the AFi II 7/10 back.
David
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I was trying to search and haven't found any real reviews of the Leaf Aptus II backs. The Aptus II 7 looks kind of nice. I'm wondering about the image quality differences between the Aptus 22, 75s and the Aptus II 7. Frank has some great photos taken with the Aptus 22. Any links to real reviews of the new Aptus backs?
With my ZD back I'm afraid to go more than 2 seconds. I don't see much info on how long you can go with the Aptus backs. If I could make good 20 second exposures I'd be very happy.
Bill
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The AFI II 6/7/10 back is only compatible with the AFi/Hy6 platform. Only the AFi II 7/10 back allows for the rotating sensor on the square frame of the AFi.
The Aptus II 6/7/10 back is compatible in specific for mounts for H, Mamiya/Phase, and Contax 645 platforms. No Aptus II 6/7/10 backs have a rotating sensor as these body's have rectangular (645) frames.
The tilt screen is only available on the AFi II 7/10 back.
David
Thanks mate, I guess I misunderstood the specs in the attached PDF as it implies the AFi-II and Aptus-II can connect to an H1/H2.
Cheers
http://www.leaf-photography.com/imgs/uploa...iII-aptusII.pdf (http://www.leaf-photography.com/imgs/uploads/afi2/Connectivity_afiII-aptusII.pdf)
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Thanks mate, I guess I misunderstood the specs in the attached PDF as it implies the AFi-II and Aptus-II can connect to an H1/H2.
Cheers
http://www.leaf-photography.com/imgs/uploa...iII-aptusII.pdf (http://www.leaf-photography.com/imgs/uploads/afi2/Connectivity_afiII-aptusII.pdf)
David we're updating the table to make it clearer and to add a few new cameras
cheers for bringing this up
yair
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Yair,
Any time you feel like taking another trip to Canada I'll be pleased to test your new backs and buy you a few beers. Algonquin Park here in Ontario is lovely in mid-May (I'm traveling a great deal until then), and we could do a studio shoot-out as well.
Michael