Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: BernardLanguillier on January 09, 2009, 09:36:06 am
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Need to vent a little...
Had to upgrade to OSX 10.5.6 3 days ago because of Capture One 4.6.
System is a Mac Pro 8 cores with 16GB ram.
- One year usage of 10.4.x -> 1 system crash
- 10 hours using 10.5.6: 3 system crash
Any idea what could be causing these?
On top of the instability, I also find that the transfer speed I am getting from my soft raid 0 bi-raptor set up is about 1.5 times lower than what I was getting with Tiger, making the computation time of panoramas at least 4 times longer.
An amazing upgrade really, thank you PhaseOne for giving me the chance to remember that not all OS work great...
Cheers,
Bernard
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Need to vent a little...
Had to upgrade to OSX 10.5.6 3 days ago because of Capture One 4.6.
System is a Mac Pro 8 cores with 16GB ram.
- One year usage of 10.4.x -> 1 system crash
- 10 hours using 10.5.6: 3 system crash
Any idea what could be causing these?
On top of the instability, I also find that the transfer speed I am getting from my soft raid 0 bi-raptor set up is about 1.5 times lower than what I was getting with Tiger, making the computation time of panoramas at least 4 times longer.
An amazing upgrade really, thank you PhaseOne for giving me the chance to remember that not all OS work great...
Cheers,
Bernard
You are not alone...
I just bought an iMac last week. Set it up and it worked fine for the first 30 minutes, then downloaded and installed updates. Now it connects to my router, but cannot stay connected to the Internet. When it does, it loads pages slower than a dial-up. I cannot go to sites with images such as Flickr, because it is unable to load the images. I have seen it hang for over 5 minutes. I am back to wire for the first time in 6 years and spend most of my time back on Windows. Needless to say, I am not impressed. After wasting hours and hours trying to solve this mess, I am now thinking of boxing it up and sending it back to Yodobashi.
From the Apple site forum and around the web, I get the impression that 10.5.6 has caused a number of problems. I don't know if that is common for Apple updates or not.
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- One year usage of 10.4.x -> 1 system crash
- 10 hours using 10.5.6: 3 system crash
11.5 hours of work, 5 system crashes, the last one cost me 30 minutes of tough PS editing...
Getting real mad, time to go to bed.
Cheers,
Bernard
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The 10.5.5 and 10.5.6 updates caused a lot of issues. Apple might already have shifted programmers to 10.6. I reported several bugs that produce crash/hang and data loss but I've received no or very little feedback from the dev teams.
When 10.5 was released, the important bugs that I reported triggered either a "we need more info ASAP" or "we already know" reply from Apple.
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I too have found it unstable. Programs hang, then when try to force quit, they don't so have to reboot. Glad in a way that it isn't just my computer. It seems to have been better since I repaired permissions after starting from a system dvd. Still not right though.
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francois,
What machine are you running Leopard? I tried to upgrade my G5 and it was a complete disaster with ripple effect that required rebuilding my RAID. Maybe in the future I'll try it again on that machine. I find on Intel Macs, 10.5.5 seems to be decent and local friends say the same.
I'm running Leopard on different Macs, ranging from dual G5s to Intel-powered towers & Xserves. I have very little problems with my MacBook Pro but I'm not so lucky with the other models.
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I have two intel macs running 10.5.6, no problems so far, I wonder if the crashes are RAM related, too little or the wrong brand...
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I have two intel macs running 10.5.6, no problems so far, I wonder if the crashes are RAM related, too little or the wrong brand...
I hear certain third-party RAM can cause a lot of issues, crash being just one. I think it really pays to get RAM from a reputable dealer, one who is serious about offering guarantees.
On a good note, 10.5.6 fixed my Adobe/HP Laserjet 1320 issue. For months, we couldn't print any Adobe document on the HP because of some Adobe/Apple incompatibility issue. I had to rely on an older G4 running Tiger. There were a deluge of complaints and the workarounds were exhausting. I'm glad it's fixed. Just waiting for another shoe to be dropped, or thrown.
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I'm assuming everyone has run Disk Utility?
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Hi!
I got the impression that Bernard was using Tiger before being forced to 'upgrade' to Leopard.
You can selectively download the combo updater from the Apple website to get just 10.5.5 which on my Macbook seems to work OK. I don't have crashes. A few quirks still with mobileme with another machine on Tiger.
I say stick with 10.5.5 for now, Capture One Pro 4.6 works fine with 10.5.5, that's the minimal OS required. I used to update Tiger regularly when those updates came available, but now I wait a good while to hear whether a Leopard update is 'safe' of not. I see 10.5.6 not safe yet.
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Have 10.5.6 running on a Macbook and iMac and have not had any problems.
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11.5 hours of work, 5 system crashes, the last one cost me 30 minutes of tough PS editing...
FWIW, my Mac Pro (8 cores, nvidia 8800gt, 6gb) is rock solid with 10.5.6. If I remember correctly I only had a single crash (many months ago) since I've got it in Feb 08.
What do you do in the moment when it crashes?
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Mac Pro 2.8 quad core, 16 gigs RAM, OS X 10.5.6 here, no problems whatsover. Had some issues with Lightroom and 64-bit processing for a bit but thats resolved now and anyways I think it was more a Lightroom issue than OS X. Same with the person's internet connection being dropped, that might not necessarily be an OS X problem. Could be router, modem, service provider, etc..
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Running 10.5.5 here with no problems on an early '08 MBP. I've been putting off the update due to the various problems reported across the board. Figure I'll give Apple a couple more weeks to clean things up and give it a go.
I alway perform my usual ritual for any update and so far have had no problems, and many folks are updating to 10.5.6 with no problem.
I never use Software Update, but rather download from the Apple site. With OS updates I usually do the combo. Repair permissions before and after and make sure nothing else is running while installing the update. Installing updates in the background while working with other apps is what usually gets people in trouble and one of the main reasons to avoid Software Update. I usually run Cocktail after the install for extra mojo. Many will poo-poo this all as unnecessary, but as stated before I've never been bitten by an update (since the OS 7 days) and it doesn't take that much time and certainly can't hurt. Sacrificial chicken is optional.
If still having trouble, check RAM and there is always a chance of compatibility problems with third party apps and haxies after any OS update. I always wait a couple of weeks after the announcement and see what pops up on various forums in the way of feedback before updating.
I also follow this when upgrading most apps as well and at least run permission repair after any update or install.
PS CS4 really zips with OS 10.5 compared to 10.4.
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Hi!
I got the impression that Bernard was using Tiger before being forced to 'upgrade' to Leopard.
Erik, correct indeed. I had not considered that the .6 could be the issue, but it is possible indeed.
Regards,
Bernard
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I too have found it unstable. Programs hang, then when try to force quit, they don't so have to reboot. Glad in a way that it isn't just my computer. It seems to have been better since I repaired permissions after starting from a system dvd. Still not right though.
Thanks, I'll try repairing the permissions.
Regards,
Bernard
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I have two intel macs running 10.5.6, no problems so far, I wonder if the crashes are RAM related, too little or the wrong brand...
Ram is 16GB from Other World Computing, never had a single problem with Tiger 10.4.8, 10.4.9 up to 10.4.11...
Cheers,
Bernard
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I'm assuming everyone has run Disk Utility?
Bill,
I have not yet but will try.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Running 10.5.5 here with no problems on an early '08 MBP. I've been putting off the update due to the various problems reported across the board. Figure I'll give Apple a couple more weeks to clean things up and give it a go.
I alway perform my usual ritual for any update and so far have had no problems, and many folks are updating to 10.5.6 with no problem.
I never use Software Update, but rather download from the Apple site. With OS updates I usually do the combo. Repair permissions before and after and make sure nothing else is running while installing the update.
I'll try reparing the permissions. Thanks
If still having trouble, check RAM and there is always a chance of compatibility problems with third party apps and haxies after any OS update. I always wait a couple of weeks after the announcement and see what pops up on various forums in the way of feedback before updating.
I also follow this when upgrading most apps as well and at least run permission repair after any update or install.
PS CS4 really zips with OS 10.5 compared to 10.4.
As far as that is concerned, I would be surprised if Ram that didn't cause any problem with 10.4 for thousands of hours of work (bought from OWC) suddenly went weird with Leopard. How can I check the ram?
CS4 is clearly slower now compared to 10.4 on my machine.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I've been running 10.5.6 on my iMac (4g memory, Intel chip) since it came out and have had no problems running LR2, Nikon Scan 4 or Vue Scan 8.5. The only issue I had was that I bought an HP multifunction printer/copier/scanner/fax machine that would not scan. Spent a long time on the phone with HP support and was told that their drivers have trouble with Leopard. Bought a Brother machine instead and it worked perfectly right off the bat.
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I'm running a 2x3 Ghz Quad core, with 16 GB of ram, 10.5.6 has run flawlessly using mainly PS, LR, safari, one stupid game I am over addicted to. also on my new MacBook Pro 15" with no issues.
I know, not much help, but just wanted to add I feel your frustration because I do remember a couple of system upgrades that resulted in similar problems .. once where I couldn't even get my screen to show up (my fault for using a GUI modifying addon) which required a full archive and install of system software. It's hard to pin down exactly what is going on.
The ram thing sounds funny I know, but I've actually heard that before as well. I vaguely recall an update a few years ago that changed how RAM was validated at start up that actually disabled some 3rd party ram. I think it was serious enough Apple even addressed it with an update (although at my age I might be confusing events from the past.)
Good Luck.
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Bernard.
I made a jump to 10.5.6 on my imac with no problems.
( I stay with 1055 on my 8Core )
I had similar problems ( move Tiger to Leopard ) as yours with restart curtain of death ,
and after a long struggle I found that it was one bad RAM module .
Original Apple hardware test did not find any problems ( because RAM was not Apples own )
I bought MEMTEST script and it found the problem ..
( it is a very cheap program )
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This thread illustrates why I get so annoyed with people who say buy a Mac 'it just works'. They are no different from PCs in that they suffer from bugs and glitchy hardware.
I've had numerous problems with my Feb08 MacPro, some were fixed by Leopard updates through the year, yet recently I've had numerous niggles and glitches, which now I'm beginning to wonder if it's the .6 update for Leopard.
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Bernard,
I had a problem when erased and reinstalled OS 10.4 and all other software for my wife on a G5 that I had been using, it was only when I installed the last program and I had a problem that I eventually found was a bad RAM module, that had previously only caused very intermittent problems.
So far, I have not had any problems with 10.5.6 on my Intel 2.66 dual with 8Gb ram. With each update I have always booted into safe mode and then applied the combo update.
Hope this helps
Martin
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This thread illustrates why I get so annoyed with people who say buy a Mac 'it just works'. They are no different from PCs in that they suffer from bugs and glitchy hardware.
I've had numerous problems with my Feb08 MacPro, some were fixed by Leopard updates through the year, yet recently I've had numerous niggles and glitches, which now I'm beginning to wonder if it's the .6 update for Leopard.
My thoughts exactly---mine is brand new and doesn't work. My biggest problem, being unable to stay connected to the Internet (either wireless or wired) even though it connects to the router fine, and even though my WIndows PCs all can connect is pretty common on the Mac forums. Many believe it is related to the .6 update, but others have had the problem with earlier updates. The difference for me is that I never had a problem that I could not solve with Windows. Eight days of effort has brought no results. I suspect that this is only the beginning of my Mac education.
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Rock solid here on 10.5.6. (No help, I know.)
Just let me remind you to read your Console/Crash logs. These will often pinpoint the issue, or narrow it down to whatever is the likely culprit.
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Thank you all so much for your sympathy and advice.
Not sure yet what the problem is, but I'll keep looking.
A relaxing weekend in the sub-zero Japanese backcountry has at least helped me cool down a bit.
Cheers,
Bernard
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This thread illustrates why I get so annoyed with people who say buy a Mac 'it just works'. They are no different from PCs in that they suffer from bugs and glitchy hardware.
I've had numerous problems with my Feb08 MacPro, some were fixed by Leopard updates through the year, yet recently I've had numerous niggles and glitches, which now I'm beginning to wonder if it's the .6 update for Leopard.
You know, I was thinking the same thing when reading this thread. I was about to recommend to Bernard that he switch to a PC, but I'm not sure he would appreciate the advice .
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Dear all,
I believe that I have found the cause of the abends. It was most probably an ATTO SCSI-320 PCI card driver incompatibility issue with 10.5.x.
Not a single crash since I updated the driver (the previous one was already supposed to be Leopard friendly). I do owe an apology to apple, they were not directly responsible for this issue.
Ray, it looks like my Mac days are not over yet.
Thank you again for your kind help.
Regards,
Bernard
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Dear all,
I believe that I have found the cause of the abends. It was most probably an ATTO SCSI-320 PCI card driver incompatibility issue with 10.5.x.
Not a single crash since I updated the driver (the previous one was already supposed to be Leopard friendly). I do owe an apology to apple, they were not directly responsible for this issue.
Ray, it looks like my Mac days are not over yet.
Thank you again for your kind help.
Regards,
Bernard
Amazing at all the people ready to blame OS 10.x for whatever is wrong with their machines. This is not directed at Mr. Languiller or anyone in particular. I work with both Mac and PC's. I personally own 9 Mac's ( Intels, G4's G5's, Pro's and Macbook) all running 10.5.6 that are used regularly without a stitch of troubling including a G3 which isn't even supposed to be able to run it. (Yes I did have to do a "little trick" to get the Leopard installation disk to install on an unsupported machine.
I run Capture 4.5.6 on two G5's without a hit of trouble albeit slower than the Intels. I also run Lightroom 2.2, Photoshop, CS 3 and CS 4, Raw Developer 1.8.2, Photo Matix
I started on PC's but now only maintain 2 full PC machines a Dell and an HP only for a few programs that don't exist for the Mac and for testing purposes. I have found on either platform - if you do not have uncorrupted directories, overly fragment drivers, or outdated drivers - you are asking for trouble. Not to start a flame but I now favor MAc because the ease of maintaining them. That may be a strange concept to some - the concept of maintenance- checking things are up to date - checking files are not corrupted, nor directories. I avoid working on or helping other peoples' machine because I have no idea how they have maintained but when I do the trouble is either in the directories, the cards they have put in or out of date driver. Of course it is these people who complain the loudest about an OS not working - Of course these same people bitch about whatever OS it is and of course they NEVER back Up anything so recovering their hard drives or resurrecting their machines is mission critical. I have seen multiple installations of programs on the same machine, drives with cross linked files, trashed permissions, machines on a flaky power supply - Hey don't even get me started about the need for UPS's for each machine (clean power is a must for smooth operating computers - yes all 11 machines are powered through UPS'S - Uninterruptible Power Supply) as well as simple RTFM problems - all very basic common operating items.
I guess what I'm saying what I find the problem is in most situations is "operator error" or should I say error to care for the hardware software not the OS. They usually are willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. I am very glad the Mr. Languiller had the where with all to track down and solve his problem (SCSI Cards have always been a nightmare - I maintain an old G4 just for anything that needs that type of connection.
Sorry for the rant but that's my take on it.
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I guess what I'm saying what I find the problem is in most situations is "operator error" or should I say error to care for the hardware software not the OS. They usually are willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. I am very glad the Mr. Languiller had the where with all to track down and solve his problem (SCSI Cards have always been a nightmare - I maintain an old G4 just for anything that needs that type of connection.
Sorry for the rant but that's my take on it.
As I wrote elsewhere, I believe that I do deserve the blame. Apple was indeed not directly responsible for my problem.
For what it is worth though, the installed driver of the SCSI card when the problem occured was a version that I knew was supposed to be compatible with 10.5.x. I had prepared my Mac Pro a few months ago for a migration to Leopard, and has installed all the Leopard compatible versions of the software, including that SCSI card driver.
I then tried installing 10.5.2 on another iMac at home, and had many instabilities that convinced me it was better to stay on Tiger on the Mac Pro.
So I should have indeed double checked that driver before/after installing 10.5.6, but I had not anticipated the fact that a driver designed to work on 10.5.2 would cause OS crashes on 10.5.6...
As far as general maintenance goes, I agree that it is important, I also agree that many people don't devote enough time to these tasks, but I don't believe that I am one of those. Disk Warrior 4 is installed on both of my Macs, and I believe that I spend more time than average making sure that all the critical software in my workflow are always up to date. I do also very regular back up of my raid5 disks on other raid5 disks,...
Cheers,
Bernard
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I guess what I'm saying what I find the problem is in most situations is "operator error" or should I say error to care for the hardware software not the OS. They usually are willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. I am very glad the Mr. Languiller had the where with all to track down and solve his problem (SCSI Cards have always been a nightmare - I maintain an old G4 just for anything that needs that type of connection.
Sorry for the rant but that's my take on it.
heh... everybody needs to vent, one time or another. Forums like this are invaluable for catching stuff you've missed... even experienced, rational users. Nobody thinks of everything... The frustration that accompanies troubleshooting essential systems is part of the package, whatever gets the blame.
This wasn't operator error. I have a department of service guys who deal with true operator error. Story time.
A guy calls in with a power-up issue, Andy takes the call. Andy asks, sir, is the system plugged in. The guy flips out. And says, yes, (expletiveexpletiveexpletive) it's plugged into the surge protector. Andy says, is the surge protector plugged in? Silence. Chime noise. Guy berates Andy again, saying he's going to report him for his insolence, and he's going to "keep an eye on" this machine...
There's an ad on the radio right now for a local coffee/donut chain that goes like this. Tech support gets a call like Andy's. Is it plugged in, he asks. To what, the user asks. To the wall, the tech asks. User says, uh, the computer didn't come with a wall... (ad line is, we can handle this. have a cup of coffee.)
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heh... everybody needs to vent, one time or another. Forums like this are invaluable for catching stuff you've missed... even experienced, rational users. Nobody thinks of everything... The frustration that accompanies troubleshooting essential systems is part of the package, whatever gets the blame.
This wasn't operator error. I have a department of service guys who deal with true operator error. Story time.
A guy calls in with a power-up issue, Andy takes the call. Andy asks, sir, is the system plugged in. The guy flips out. And says, yes, (expletiveexpletiveexpletive) it's plugged into the surge protector. Andy says, is the surge protector plugged in? Silence. Chime noise. Guy berates Andy again, saying he's going to report him for his insolence, and he's going to "keep an eye on" this machine...
There's an ad on the radio right now for a local coffee/donut chain that goes like this. Tech support gets a call like Andy's. Is it plugged in, he asks. To what, the user asks. To the wall, the tech asks. User says, uh, the computer didn't come with a wall... (ad line is, we can handle this. have a cup of coffee.)
Not to turn this thread into a different topic but I was once asked to help a friend of the family to install software on his computer - because he couldn't find the CD "tray" (as they were back when) Anyhow I walked over to his house and when I saw the computer - I almost burst out laughing - he thought the "CD Tray" was a coffee holder and had a styrofoam cup "in it".
I kid you not"
There is a really old comedy "bit" "called Internet Help Desk" that if you haven't seen you must:
http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c272/ava...esmonocable.flv (http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c272/avataraangar/Videos/?action=view¤t=wesmonocable.flv)
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Not to turn this thread into a different topic but I was once asked to help a friend of the family to install software on his computer - because he couldn't find the CD "tray" (as they were back when) Anyhow I walked over to his house and when I saw the computer - I almost burst out laughing - he thought the "CD Tray" was a coffee holder and had a styrofoam cup "in it".
I kid you not"
There is a really old comedy "bit" "called Internet Help Desk" that if you haven't seen you must:
http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c272/ava...esmonocable.flv (http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c272/avataraangar/Videos/?action=view¤t=wesmonocable.flv)
hysterical... forwarded to Andy.
("how old are you? 9? perfect...)