Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: ohshannon on December 28, 2008, 10:20:40 pm
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has been use my Mamiya AFD for a while , now thinking of getting a AFD II or III ,
is there any major different btw AFD I , II , III ?
please advise , wish you guys a happy holidays
S.
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has been use my Mamiya AFD for a while , now thinking of getting a AFD II or III ,
is there any major different btw AFD I , II , III ?
please advise , wish you guys a happy holidays
S.
"Major" is something you'd have to decide holding each in your hand. Do you have a dealer nearby? Most should have at least one AFD II and AFD III to compare to your AFD.
As you've probably figured out the AFD III is also sold as the Phase One 645. These are the same cameras, but the Phase One 645 can be purchased with a 3 year 300,000 shutter count warranty.
However, the focus of improvements are:
- faster AF
- more accurate AF (especially in low light)
- reduced shutter lag
- reduced black out time
The AFD had only one firmware version.
The AFD II had two firmware versions.
The AFD III is currently on 1.4 firmware and will see future firmware updates. The 1.4 firmware has reduced the shutter lag considerably.
There are dozens of small improvements other than those and I will list some below, but the above reasons would generally be why you would upgrade.
- AFD III mirror lock-up is electronic controlled
- AFD III has three focus points (though they are very close together)
- metering consistency and sophistication is improved
- ergonomics of AFD III are "improved". In our experience most users do prefer the newer bodies, but ergonomics are highly personal, so judge for yourself
- AFD III has a higher possible frame rate, though so far only the P65+ would be slowed down by an AFD or AFD II body.
- other arguably minor changes in button design and positions, most of our customers are either happy or indifferent to these changes
Finally the AFD III / Phase One 645 are slated to be compatible with the leaf shutter lenses Mamiya is currently developing, and will be the only body with shutter-speed/aperture control when combined with the P65+ and future Phase One backs.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
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has been use my Mamiya AFD for a while , now thinking of getting a AFD II or III ,
is there any major different btw AFD I , II , III ?
please advise , wish you guys a happy holidays
S.
There is an undocumented combination of custom functions on the AFD II which allows you to take the autofocus off of the shutter button and put it on the AEL button on the back, like you can do with the user button on a Hasselblad H, or the focus button on a Contax, or the * button on a Canon. This ability is removed in the AFD III. I've tried without success to explain to both Mamiya and Phase reps (none of whom knew it was possible with the II, or even understood why you would need it) that not having this is a deal breaker for fashion photography. Until it's possible with the III, I'm staying with the II's. The III's are nicer, but you can get two used II's for the price of a III, and 3-4 used II's for the price of a III with the Phase extra warranty.
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The AFD had only one firmware version.
The AFD II had two firmware versions.
The AFD III is currently on 1.4 firmware and will see future firmware updates. The 1.4 firmware has reduced the shutter lag considerably.
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
Doug,
I don't understand why you would imply that multiple firmware upgrades are a positive for the AFD III. My understanding is the firmware versions do not include additional functionality or improvements to current functionality, they simply are attempting to fix bugs that should have been corrected prior to release. Not minor problems but glaring usability issues.
This is not to say the upgrade is not worthwhile but having to send a camera in to MAC for a simple firmware to fix bugs does not seem like a feature to me. Especially when you mention that more firmware upgrades are coming down the pike.
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Doug,
I don't understand why you would imply that multiple firmware upgrades are a positive for the AFD III. My understanding is the firmware versions do not include additional functionality or improvements to current functionality, they simply are attempting to fix bugs that should have been corrected prior to release. Not minor problems but glaring usability issues.
This is not to say the upgrade is not worthwhile but having to send a camera in to MAC for a simple firmware to fix bugs does not seem like a feature to me. Especially when you mention that more firmware upgrades are coming down the pike.
Having to send in the camera is both frustrating and disappointing. Though the annoyance is tempered in that US turn-around time is one day with free overnight return shipping, so out-of-hand time is pretty minimal. Also, while they have the camera for the firmware update they do a basic cleaning and inspection and that's something professionals should have done at least once a year anyway. Still, nothing makes up for the fact that a user-executable firmware update would be 100 times more convenient.
That said, you are mistaken that the firmware updates do not add/improve functionality. On the contrary a 1.4 firmware AFD III (aka P1645) will far outperform an 1.0 firmware AFD III in autofocus speed, autofocus accuracy, shutter lag, and black out time. I would go so far as to say that the improvement from a AFDIII-1.0 to a AFDIII-1.4 is as large as the improvement from an AFD II to an AFD III-1.0. From that point of view if you purchased the AFDIII-1.0 and were happy with your purchase then you have effectively since received a major upgrade for the cost of shipping. Not a bad deal.
In any case, annoyance or bonus, the OP needed to be aware that not all AFD IIs and AFD IIIs are the same and that firmware is an important consideration when evaluating or comparing bodies.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
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There is an undocumented combination of custom functions on the AFD II which allows you to take the autofocus off of the shutter button and put it on the AEL button on the back, like you can do with the user button on a Hasselblad H, or the focus button on a Contax, or the * button on a Canon. This ability is removed in the AFD III. I've tried without success to explain to both Mamiya and Phase reps (none of whom knew it was possible with the II, or even understood why you would need it) that not having this is a deal breaker for fashion photography. Until it's possible with the III, I'm staying with the II's. The III's are nicer, but you can get two used II's for the price of a III, and 3-4 used II's for the price of a III with the Phase extra warranty.
Hi
I own the AFDII & have the focus set on the AEL button. You can also set it on the AF button on the front. Even when I owned the ZD camera you could set the focus this way, it was brilliant. I just looked at the AFDIII specs & what does the AF lock button (front) do? Having the focus separate from the shutter release is a must for me also. Why would they make the AFDIII different from the AFDII. If this is the case I am staying with the AFDII.
Denis
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That said, you are mistaken that the firmware updates do not add/improve functionality. On the contrary a 1.4 firmware AFD III (aka P1645) will far outperform an 1.0 firmware AFD III in autofocus speed, autofocus accuracy, shutter lag, and black out time. I would go so far as to say that the improvement from a AFDIII-1.0 to a AFDIII-1.4 is as large as the improvement from an AFD II to an AFD III-1.0. From that point of view if you purchased the AFDIII-1.0 and were happy with your purchase then you have effectively since received a major upgrade for the cost of shipping. Not a bad deal.
On the other hand, if, as some Mamiya/Phase customers have stated in public, you owned the AFDIII and were unhappy with the lag and the lack of speed (Guy pressing the shutter at the top of a golf swing to get the hit...), then your feeling would not be "not a bad deal", but rather "finally". I think this is exactly what was referred to earlier. There are no new features there, just an improvement in speed from "annoying" to "good", if I understand correctly, please correct me if I am wrong, as I am just retelling what I have read.
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On the other hand, if, as some Mamiya/Phase customers have stated in public, you owned the AFDIII and were unhappy with the lag and the lack of speed (Guy pressing the shutter at the top of a golf swing to get the hit...), then your feeling would not be "not a bad deal", but rather "finally". I think this is exactly what was referred to earlier. There are no new features there, just an improvement in speed from "annoying" to "good", if I understand correctly, please correct me if I am wrong, as I am just retelling what I have read.
I guess it's all just the attitude you take. When my equipment (which I purchased knowing it's performance and price at the time) becomes faster and better for the price of shipping I am happy.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
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I guess it's all just the attitude you take. When my equipment (which I purchased knowing it's performance and price at the time) becomes faster and better for the price of shipping I am happy.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
Well, that is for sure! However, on a personal level, the big difference is in why you bought the system: for what it is, or for what you were promised. There are people in both camps.
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Well, that is for sure! However, on a personal level, the big difference is in why you bought the system: for what it is, or for what you were promised. There are people in both camps.
Well yes i am very happy about the speed increase in shutter lag but we also must understand firmware updates come in every new camera in recent history for at least 4 years or more. Every Canon, Nikon, Oly and even in MF Sinar and Hassy have new firmware out or came out. We all know this is nothing new and it happens with every make. The M8 has had 4 i think. Yes bug fixes and such are normal but when it actually improves performance of the camera than it makes it even better and in this case it does a lot. So like Doug said it maybe considered a gift than I might have to agree on that. Now sending in the camera for it obviously is a royal PITA and phase will do something about that in the future we all hope. My case it was 3 days back in my hands so it was very quick but I was pretty fast on getting mine in only because myself and 5 other phase owners helped with suggestions and input on the 1.4 firmware directly with the Phase engineers, so we obviously knew about it.
Now I need to check mine on that back focus button. I thought it still was there in 1.4. I know no one asked for that to change. Hmmm
Carsten if we go back a minute there was a big speed increase from II to III and got even better with 1.4 . So it keeps improving, is it perfect no but pretty close to it now.
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Well yes i am very happy about the speed increase in shutter lag but we also must understand firmware updates come in every new camera in recent history for at least 4 years or more. Every Canon, Nikon, Oly and even in MF Sinar and Hassy have new firmware out or came out. We all know this is nothing new and it happens with every make. The M8 has had 4 i think. Yes bug fixes and such are normal but when it actually improves performance of the camera than it makes it even better and in this case it does a lot. So like Doug said it maybe considered a gift than I might have to agree on that. Now sending in the camera for it obviously is a royal PITA and phase will do something about that in the future we all hope. My case it was 3 days back in my hands so it was very quick but I was pretty fast on getting mine in only because myself and 5 other phase owners helped with suggestions and input on the 1.4 firmware directly with the Phase engineers, so we obviously knew about it.
Now I need to check mine on that back focus button. I thought it still was there in 1.4. I know no one asked for that to change. Hmmm
Carsten if we go back a minute there was a big speed increase from II to III and got even better with 1.4 . So it keeps improving, is it perfect no but pretty close to it now.
If you have an in with the phase engineers please request bracketing with more than 1 stop. We need at least +/-2 for HDR. How big a deal can that be?
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Okay Jack is telling me it is these settings on the III. I need to confirm
From
Yes, I am pretty sure it is on the 3 too. Try CF 19-1 (there should be a 0, 1 and 2) Then pressing the rear button should AF the camera and lock as soon as focus is achieved.
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Yes it is CF-19 number 1. The rear button does the AF focusing
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I second the need for AEB with more than one stop. Also, having AEB of more than 3 exposures would be good for HDR shooting.
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Doug,
Do you know where I can get the firmware upgrade to the Mamiya version of the AFDIII? I can't find anything their web site about it!
Thanks.
Paul
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Yes it is CF-19 number 1. The rear button does the AF focusing
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www.GetDPI.com
This is on the AFDIII
Yes . I just tried it on mine
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Yes it is CF-19 number 1. The rear button does the AF focusing
So AF on the rear button is now possible on the AFD 3? And it takes the AF off the shutter button when configured that way, correct?
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Answered below
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Anton from what I can see if you hold the back button in on option 1 it will disengage the shutter button focus. If you let up on the back button it will activate again on the shutter button . So as long as i am holding the back button in the shutter button functions like a release only. That was option 1
Option 2 the back button acts as a lock . So what happens is the shutter button does the focusing than if you hit the back button once it locks focus and will not release focus until you hit it a second time . So on option 2 it is a focus lock function.
I'm a option 1 on this
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Anton from what I can see if you hold the back button in on option 1 it will disengage the shutter button focus. If you let up on the back button it will activate again on the shutter button . So as long as i am holding the back button in the shutter button functions like a release only. That was option 1
Option 2 the back button acts as a lock . So what happens is the shutter button does the focusing than if you hit the back button once it locks focus and will not release focus until you hit it a second time . So on option 2 it is a focus lock function.
I'm a option 1 on this
So still no way to take the AF off the shutter button and put it solely on the rear button? That's what I need, neither of the above functions will cut it for my uses. Every other camera can do it, but not the AFD III.
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So still no way to take the AF off the shutter button and put it solely on the rear button? That's what I need, neither of the above functions will cut it for my uses. Every other camera can do it, but not the AFD III.
Hi
I think you are spot on. Take a look at CF 18 http://www.mamiya.com/645afd-iii-more-info...-functions.html (http://www.mamiya.com/645afd-iii-more-info-custom-functions.html). With the AFDII with CF 18 this is where you set the focus choice of front, rear from the shutter release. Same with the ZD camera. I cannot understand why they took this CF away? AFDIII is not an option for me either. I will talk to the Mamiya rep & complain next week.
Denis
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So still no way to take the AF off the shutter button and put it solely on the rear button? That's what I need, neither of the above functions will cut it for my uses. Every other camera can do it, but not the AFD III.
Correct -- and yes it was a stupid rework by Mamiya. (FWIW, both the Mamiya version and Phase versions do this and while I have no Mamiya contacts, I have complained to Phase about it!) I wasn't happy about the MLU swap around either. Anyway, closest you can get is to use 19-2 and have selectable AF lock. Irony is, I now leave the AF lock up front using the shutter button to focus and 19-2 option to lock. Focus locks and Green dot stays lit with one press until you press it a second time. In use, this has become second nature and surprisingly I no longer miss the "old" way of thumb-button focus. Regardless, it *should* have remained an option and certainly should be addressed in a firmware update or the next version body!
Cheers,