Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Rob C on August 18, 2008, 12:12:54 pm
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This appears in the TV guide section of the Sunday Times, Augst 17th, 2008.
´Portrait of a photographer - David LaChapelle (Sky Arts, 7pm)
First shown on Five in 2002, this biography struggles to capture anything more than a fleeting glimpse of David LaChapelle, its gaze settling instead on the photographer´s gaudy portfolio. Following him as he flaps and shouts his way through photoshoots, it discovers a self-deprecating artist reliant on a squadron of harried lackeys.´
I thought this might be of interest within the context of this section, particularly as some soya milk might have been wasted in LaChapelleesque style nearby and some carts of bricks knocked over too...
Discuss?
Rob C
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This appears in the TV guide section of the Sunday Times, Augst 17th, 2008.
´Portrait of a photographer - David LaChapelle (Sky Arts, 7pm)
First shown on Five in 2002, this biography struggles to capture anything more than a fleeting glimpse of David LaChapelle, its gaze settling instead on the photographer´s gaudy portfolio. Following him as he flaps and shouts his way through photoshoots, it discovers a self-deprecating artist reliant on a squadron of harried lackeys.´
I thought this might be of interest within the context of this section, particularly as some soya milk might have been wasted in LaChapelleesque style nearby and some carts of bricks knocked over too...
Discuss?
Rob C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215814\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
never watched it, but just wanted to point out that everyone loves to diss lachapelle because he goes against the very essence of what good photography is supposed to be: serious, beautiful and..staid.
btw just to clarify I personally prefer Erwin Olaf to Lachapelle, but both are really amazing photographers to me.
p.s.I always found shouting and flapping around one of the best parts of photoshoots.
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I love Lachapelle.
I think I saw the documentary a few years ago on Dutch TV, still looking for a copy of it (if it's the same).
I think he has rewritten some parts of photography and I believe he is one of todays best.
Erwin Olaf is GREAT by the way (fellow dutch man), but Lachapelle.... well it's a league of his own
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he goes against the very essence of what good photography is supposed to be: serious, beautiful and..staid.
p.s.I always found shouting and flapping around one of the best parts of photoshoots.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215823\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
jing, I would question your analysis of good photography to include ´staid´ which is something I have never heard applied within its definition before. However, as with everything about the medium, it´s generally open and up for grabs.
Shouting and flapping about... forgive me if I take the liberty to imagine you to be joking here; I have never though shouting to contribute much to anything. It is sometimes a very British way of speaking foreign languages, though: one shouts loudly in English and the foreign person the subject of said shout is then assumed to have understood every word, every nuance. I have not seen this work, personally, even in the glorious EEC. Perhaps if it becomes the United States of Europe, we will all be able to shout together, move the tides and be understood by everyone. However, as one sometimes struggles to understand one´s own countrymen, I have a slight doubt about this happening any time soon.
Flapping about is another thing - it may serve to lift the level of the photography somewhat.
Rob C
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Ovation TV had a special documentry where he shot with backdrop of highly contemporary Architecture with a blond floating in a pool on freshly painted silver float. Second clip was @ Elton John's shoot in front of Hotel Negresco in Nice, France. Elton John shoot lasted only under 4mins. It was to be 2-3 mins on the beach for Vanity Fair. He posed with metal detector looking for more coins.
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Ovation TV had a special documentry where he shot with backdrop of highly contemporary Architecture with a blond floating in a pool on freshly painted silver float. Second clip was @ Elton John's shoot in front of Hotel Negresco in Nice, France. Elton John shoot lasted only under 4mins. It was to be 2-3 mins on the beach for Vanity Fair. He posed with metal detector looking for more coins.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=215836\")
It's here at Google Video: [a href=\"http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2997807503876379069&ei=bM-pSLquCob22wLQ1sWoBg&q=david+lachapelle&vt=lf]Ovation TV | David LaChapelle: Portrait of a Photographer[/url]
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It's here at Google Video: Ovation TV | David LaChapelle: Portrait of a Photographer (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2997807503876379069&ei=bM-pSLquCob22wLQ1sWoBg&q=david+lachapelle&vt=lf)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215843\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I hope he was just hamming it up for the camera; I saw him years ago on Fashion TV, the Toronto station´s show, and the early signs of things to come were already there. I won´t go into what sorts of things, but form your own conclusions.
Actually, there isn´t all that much new to his look: there was a German or Austrian guy got similar effects just using polarizers and flash to hype the colours. I wish I could remember his name, but if it helps, he used to feature a lot in French Photo magazine. Got it! Cheyco Leidmann. Plus ça change plus la même chose, or something close.
Rob C
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I hope some day you all get to debate about my work and vision like this. Then i'll know i've succeeded.
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I hope he was just hamming it up for the camera; I saw him years ago on Fashion TV, the Toronto station´s show, and the early signs of things to come were already there. I won´t go into what sorts of things, but form your own conclusions.
Actually, there isn´t all that much new to his look: there was a German or Austrian guy got similar effects just using polarizers and flash to hype the colours. I wish I could remember his name, but if it helps, he used to feature a lot in French Photo magazine. Got it! Cheyco Leidman. Plus ça change plus la même chose, or something close.
Rob C
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Are you jealous of him? Don't think he deserves the success he's had?
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Are you jealous of him? Don't think he deserves the success he's had?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215921\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Terence
Jealous of him? Perhaps you mean envious. No, not in the least. I have experience of that world - fashion - and that´s one of the reasons I got out of it in favour of designing, producing and shooting bespoke company calendars.
Or perhaps you refer to Cheyco, in which case, I would say that equally, there is no envy, but a certain amount of respect for the way in which he stuck to his guns and did it his way. Mostly by himself. That is one of the salient points about all of this: when does a photographer stop being a photographer and responsible for the end product, the print. I see little cause for personal satisfaction with one´s oeuvre when a huge part of it simply reflects the skills of other specialists.
But that´s a thing many will fail or choose not to consider, and in a commercial sense, as distinct to a personal sense of achievement, they are right.
Rob C
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I hope some day you all get to debate about my work and vision like this. Then i'll know i've succeeded.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215894\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
At being a celebrity or a great photographer?
Rob C
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At being a celebrity or a great photographer?
Rob C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215950\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well, I assume in this case both
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I see little cause for personal satisfaction with one´s oeuvre when a huge part of it simply reflects the skills of other specialists.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215949\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
you mean like a film director?
there's a satisfaction in doing everything yourself but there's also satisfaction in realising your vision, relying on other people along the way.
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Don't think he deserves the success he's had?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215921\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well I know you didn't pose the question to me but my answer is that I'm shocked at the level of hype surrounding this guy. I could name 10 or 20 photographers who are in my opinion much more talented and more or less unheard of. That's life. He probably goes to the right parties.
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Well I know you didn't pose the question to me but my answer is that I'm shocked at the level of hype surrounding this guy. I could name 10 or 20 photographers who are in my opinion much more talented and more or less unheard of. That's life. He probably goes to the right parties.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215967\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Mr. LaChapelle is in a very rare world where the air is thin.
you know his name he doesn't know yours.
you may not chose to have his life but millions of people would love to.
there is a big difference in the way you must work to reach and stay at that level compared to the average photographer.
he is not the average photogrpaher.
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That's life. He probably goes to the right parties.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215967\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
In addition to talent and nerves for technical skills...
"Social skills" is imperative for success, not art though!!! Perhaps, Vincent Van Gogh/Pablo Picaso as a reference...
So yes, I agree he goes to the right parties, Elton/Madona
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Mr. LaChapelle is in a very rare world where the air is thin.
you know his name he doesn't know yours.
you may not chose to have his life but millions of people would love to.
there is a big difference in the way you must work to reach and stay at that level compared to the average photographer.
he is not the average photogrpaher.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215972\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes, there are also millions of other people who would sell their sisters to be on Big Brother.
As to his being the average photographer, no, he certainly doesn´t rate that highly with me either.
Rob C
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Luckily for him he ranks very well in the eyes of the public.
I tend to find that the layman vs photography professionals have very differing opinions on what is good photography and what is not.
I think we may differ on what photographers we enjoy but I'm hard-pressed to see how other photographers cannot acknowledge the level of skill involved in his work, his compositions, his colour-sense, etc etc.
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I think it's hard to like and understand LaChapelle, you really need to understand art and photography on a level that most people never get to.
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Yes, there are also millions of other people who would sell their sisters to be on Big Brother.
As to his being the average photographer, no, he certainly doesn´t rate that highly with me either.
Rob C
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It says more about you than LaChapelle, when you ( seriously??? ) rate him
lower than average.
One thing is not to like his kind of pictures, another is to not see that he has
a great eye and execute his vision on a high level.
It is so easy too say, when looking at great photographers pictures, "I could have done that and
even better". The big difference is that they had the vision and skills to do it.
I sure like to see some pictures you have produced Rob.
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I sure like to see some pictures you have produced Rob.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216006\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well the judging of Rob's pictures would be subject to the same thing as Rob's judgement and opinion of LaChapelles work, your personal opinion =) Thats the nice thing with opinions, everyone has one and everyone is entitled to their own =)
Having said that, i wanna see Rob's work anyway regardless of if he thinks LaChapelle is a newbie or not
(Me personally have a passion for surrealism and modern art and really like LaChapelle's work =)
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It says more about you than LaChapelle, when you ( seriously??? ) rate him
lower than average.
One thing is not to like his kind of pictures, another is to not see that he has
a great eye and execute his vision on a high level.
It is so easy too say, when looking at great photographers pictures, "I could have done that and
even better". The big difference is that they had the vision and skills to do it.
I sure like to see some pictures you have produced Rob.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216006\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Of course I´m being tongue-in-cheek to a certain extent, but nonetheless, I do not rate the man as a great photographer. I have no doubts about his succes being great, though, but the two are different and quite separate things.
I do not see that he has a great eye at all: I think his use of colour is awful; to call it brash would, in my opinion, be understatement. Vulgar, perhaps, is closer. Further, how can he even claim the colour to be his? How can one know - with a team of specialists behind the hat, who does what?
Yes, it is very easy to look at great photographers´pictures and say yes, I could have done that. I tend to look at such pictures and say: I wish I´d done that. That is exactly how I reacted to one of Frank´s images on the MF Slide Show, the one with the beautifully backlit woman´s neck and breasts, her chin going up into the air. If this remark was aimed at me, or simply a generalisation I can´t tell; if aimed at myself, then it is misplaced. I openly and unreservedly admire many photographers and only wish that I had their eye. If you read much of what I write here, then you might have a sense of boredom with the number of times I have honoured Sarah Moon, Sam Haskins, Hans Feurer and some few others.
My own work? You don´t live too far from Spain - should you be coming down Mallorca way, let me know when and I would be very happy to show you what I have available - not even any pressure to buy!
Rob C
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Well the judging of Rob's pictures would be subject to the same thing as Rob's judgement and opinion of LaChapelles work, your personal opinion =) Thats the nice thing with opinions, everyone has one and everyone is entitled to their own =)
Having said that, i wanna see Rob's work anyway regardless of if he thinks LaChapelle is a newbie or not
(Me personally have a passion for surrealism and modern art and really like LaChapelle's work =)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216008\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I don´t think he´s a newbie - been around much longer than that, he has!
Anyway, regarding my pics: I extend to you the same opportunity as I did just now to Willow Photography, but you might be wasting you time - I don´t dig surrealism or much modern art. But hell, perhaps that´s what I´ve been doing all along without knowing it.
Rob C
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well, I like his work a lot, really.
Not because I work with the same kind of photography at all or because evey image toch me in any way. But because, with every picture, he's showing us his own personal fight agains the extremely moral world we live in. He's screaming, controversially in every shot. And with an impresive high level collection of technichal skills.
To me that's ART.
He's an artist with a well defined vision of what he wants to achieve, and does it in a very nice way imo.
/Samuel
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But because, with every picture, he's showing us his own personal fight agains the extremely moral world we live in. He's screaming, controversially in every shot. .
/Samuel
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216215\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Samuel
I don´t recognize the ´moral´ world you speak of - I do, however see the politically correct one and it makes me sick. Why? Because underlying almost everything that the PC people make their own is an even greater hypocrisy: they seek the remotest chance of an unintentional hurt and then really turn it into the hurt it was never intended to be. That, to me, makes them worse than the thing they pretend to correct.
I have no idea if you see any fashion magazines. If you do, you will find more sex and exposure in magazines intended for female consumption than anywhere else short of top-shelf junk. In those fashion pages, there are many really skilled photographers flying in the face of the faux morality I think you write about. Mr LaC is not, for me, one of the better or brighter exponents of the skill. Part of the problem, again for me, is the idea of a team behind, beside and probably in front of him. How can such a system, drawing as it must upon a variety of external talents, allow an individual to claim the credit? Trick-photography indeed.
Yes, he screams very loudly, as you write.
Should you be interested, I can post a list of sites where far greater talents are on display.
Rob C
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Part of the problem, again for me, is the idea of a team behind, beside and probably in front of him. How can such a system, drawing as it must upon a variety of external talents, allow an individual to claim the credit? Trick-photography indeed.
Yes, he screams very loudly, as you write.
Should you be interested, I can post a list of sites where far greater talents are on display.
Rob C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216306\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm going to repeat myself:
Like a film director perhaps?
It's a team effort, but Lachapelle has the vision.
All the specialists in the world combined can't make a great picture without a great director.
You may think there's greater talent around. But to not even acknowledge his capabilities shows really poorly upon yourself.
It's irritating to see other photographers who have proven their chops over and over again get dissed like this.
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Whatever people say, to perform over and over again like Lachapelle does is setting him apart.
It's indeed HIS vision.
I don't think he is overly shouting on the video, remember this is NOT a TFP session for fun, the talent often gives you 4-5 minutes and in that time and ONLY THAT TIME you have to have the killer shot, that IS pressure.
So if someone in your team is not paying attention or screwing up, you can get a bit more loud than normally, remember music is often blasting through the studio.
As he explained after the shoot "now I have to take everyone out to diner to makeup".
I'm a big fan of Lachapelle so maybe I'm biased, I have seen a LOT of very talented photographers online but never someone with the ammount of hits that Lachapelle has.
Every good photographer can make 1-10-20-30 great shots but continue this for hunderds (just check his books and website) and you are deserving a place in history
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Yeah Frank you nailed it.
Lachapelle is one of the greatest portrait and fashion photographers of our time, period.
You can like his work or not. It's all his vision.
On this level of the game many things come in to play. It's not just about taking a picture.
It's your persona, your socialize skills, your fashion awareness, who you know, on what party you have been lately, knowing the right makeup artists and stylists etc.
You almost have to be a movie director to pull those kinda shoots of. At the end you take a picture but the photocamera is just the capture device for your vision.
I'm sure Lachapelle doesn't give a shit about cameras as we do. He's an artist and not a photographer at the first place.
Give me the money and the talent and I will be able the capture the same picture, but only technicaly. All the other things come in to play first and that's the hard part.
Dont get me wrong. I also love cameras and new tools but more and more I realize that knowing the tools is important but not as important as your vision and social skills.
Michel Comte is a good example. I had the chance to work on his set a few years ago.
Technicaly he's not half as good as most of the folks here. But his social skills are superb. He always gets the shots. He sees stuff that most people dont. He's not afraid to push famous actors around till he gets the shot and the actors love him for that.
That's the kinda stuff that sets him apart from the rest of us. Guess what, he also doesn't give a shit about technical stuff. He just has a vision.
You have to be a great communicator first, then the great pictures will follow.
Just some thoughts.
Tim
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Part of the problem, again for me, is the idea of a team behind, beside and probably in front of him. How can such a system, drawing as it must upon a variety of external talents, allow an individual to claim the credit? Trick-photography indeed.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216306\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You've basically pissed on every advertising and commercial photographer on the planet with that statement. I have no idea what sort of work you produce (maybe landscape?), but if a job came for me today where I'd personally have to answer all the phone calls, reply to the emails, pick up gear, set up gear, do the makeup/hair/manicure for talent, steam the clothes then sort out the outfits, cook the food for the kraft services table, drive the RV for base camp, pick up the talent, THEN actually do the photoshoot, break down the gear, load it up into the van, return it, return all the wardrobe, drop the talent off, collect the invoices, cut the checks, then drop them off at the post office, and finally get to sit down to do the editing, retouching, and converting of files, well, I'd be so f'ing exhausted by the end of the week I'd probably shoot myself. This sort of work is a massive team effort that is kicked off by the photographer's vision. Sure everyone plays a key role, but at the start of the day, everyone is looking at the photographer asking, "So what do you want me to do?" Heck, I'm actually on the conservative side of describing the amount of work and production a shoot on the level of LaChapelle's is.
The best part of this whole argument is that I don't even like the guy, but I very much respect his work and ability to execute his ideas while having to deal with publicists, agents, etc...
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i remember watching that LaChapelle video on Egg, on public TV, years ago. There was a scene with his assistant. I wonder if this is the same guy:
http://www.pdnpulse.com/2008/08/remembering-pho.html (http://www.pdnpulse.com/2008/08/remembering-pho.html)
They seem to look very similar.
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You've basically pissed on every advertising and commercial photographer on the planet with that statement
The best part of this whole argument is that I don't even like the guy, but I very much respect his work and ability to execute his ideas while having to deal with publicists, agents, etc...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216477\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
unless your are out working hard the comments are just that comments.
Mr. RobC wants a time where it was just him his calendar girls and a paycheck. it doesn't work that way now and it didn't work that way in the past.
it must have just worked that way for Mr. RobC who can not even flatbed scan one of his photographs and put himself on the front lines.
if you are not capable of managing a crew your career your post production then you are just a commodity and commodities are always replaced by the lowest bid.
like Mr. Chappell or dont like Mr. Chappell his work is out there for the world to see
Mr. Chapell does not know Mr. C's name, but Mr. C knows of Mr. Chappell.
that should explain it all.
it probably explains why Mr. RobC does not like Mr. Chappell.
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unless your are out working hard the comments are just that comments.
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it probably explains why Mr. RobC does not like Mr. Chappell.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216494\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Jesus Cooter, at least get his name right! Or are you just taking part in what you hope might become another bar-room brawl like the one a few clicks away?
Also, don´t forget what this thread was created to do: discuss. Seems to me it´s you doing the screaming and precious little discussing.
It bores to have to repeat myself, but perhaps you have a short memory. As I explained months ago to another person on LuLa saying much the same as yourself, I do not post on the web for all manner of reasons, the principal one being a matter of model releases, client permissions and the fact that I feel no need nor wish to have my work on your computer.
Actually, you are quite wrong about Rob C and his girls working on their own: it was like that, and it did work like that and the pay check was nice then too; that´s exactly how it was, but then, how could you possibly know? You see, there was a golden age in photography and you just missed it.
Rob C
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Picking up on the point of showings ones work online I do rather enjoy visiting the sites of those who post here. Fora can be rather two dimensional creatures and it is only human nature to try and construct a picture of the individuals from the words they write and phrases they employ. Being able to see their work puts a great deal more flesh on the bones as well as giving some indication of the weight that should be attached to their opinion. There is some quite wonderful work produced by the members here, Jing q's 'Crossings' for instance, but there are some very average items as well. No names, no pack drill, but one very technical fellow elsewhere boasted about the virtues of his images that would be draw nothing but very polite and helpful comments down at the local camera club. But by jingo he'd hit upon a formula that costed each pixel. Nothing wrong in this BTW, we must each seek from photography that which we find most rewarding.
There is also an element of inverse publicity in that if you are well known and respected then you have no need to draw further attention to yourself, but further down the ladder you are then the louder you need to shout to be noticed. I believe that there is an annual guide to Hollywood actors in which those who are famous merely list their agents number whilst the B movie stars who have got a penny or two together splash out on full page adverts with biography and so on. Aspiring newbies struggle along with as many lines as their finances allow. Is it really the same principle being applied here?
Justin.
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Or some people don't need the exposure but they just love to share, ever thought about that ?
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Or some people don't need the exposure but they just love to share, ever thought about that ?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216611\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not that particular angle I must admit but there are plenty more besides. Do we all have the interest or resources in assembling or commissioning a site for instance, is the investment of resources worth it anyway? Is the net the best way to display ones work, Is it a worthwhile marketing tool or a vanity trip?
A few years back just having a site, and more importantly, being seen to have one was justification alone. Nowdays I'm not sure that this is as valid as the novelty has worn off and users are looking to the web as just another information resource rather than a wondrous creation in its own right.
Justin.
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Should you be interested, I can post a list of sites where far greater talents are on display.
Rob C
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Dear Rob
Please do post the list of sites, I would be very interested.
Thanks
T
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Dear Rob
Please do post the list of sites, I would be very interested.
Thanks
T
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=216630\")
My pleasure, and, I´m sure, yours to be! There are really so many that I love and admire, but this lot should keep you busy for a while.
[a href=\"http://www.brunobisang.com]http://www.brunobisang.com[/url]
http://www.marekandassociates.com (http://www.marekandassociates.com)
http://www.juliainmeijer.com (http://www.julianmeijer.com)
http://www.lundlund.com (http://www.lundlund.com)
http://www.artpartner.com (http://www.artpartner.com)
http://www.waclawwantuch.com (http://www.waclawwantuch.com)
http://www.bitesnich.com (http://www.bitesnich.com)
http://www.managementartists.com (http://www.managementartists.com)
http://www.gianfrancomeza.com (http://www.gianfrancomeza.com)
http://www.haskins.com (http://www.haskins.com)
http://www.modelpix.com (http://www.modelpix.com)
http://www.pirellical.com/thecal/home.html (http://www.pirellical.com/thecal/home.html)
http://www.farrokhchothia.com (http://www.farrokhchothia.com)
http://www.russelljames.com (http://www.russelljames.com)
http://www.wibagency.com (http://www.wibagency.com) (this, with my favourite: Hans Feurer)
http://www.santedorazio.com (http://www.santedorazio.com)
If you have trouble with any, tell me which one and I shall try again - my eyes go walkabout with this monitor. With anything, probably.
Rob C
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My pleasure, and, I´m sure, yours to be! There are really so many that I love and admire, but this lot should keep you busy for a while.
Rob C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216690\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Rob
Thanks a lot, it is exiting to encounter photographers that I was not aware of.
I don’t care if you post images or not, you certainly know your way around photography.
I am on a very slow line at this moment, and have not seen all the links, but it seems to be in a commercial / fashion genre - I am more an art photography guy, do you have any exiting links (and please not to photographers who call them self fine art photographers).
Cheers
T
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Okay, folks, I started this little thread in the hope of some good, deep insight into creative thinking, how one person sees it in the example of a famous reputation and how another thinks something totally else.
In the end, this proved a somewhat naïve proposition on my part and perhaps at my age I should have known better. Nevertheless, some clear conclusions can be drwn, and from my perspective, here they are.
1. It is difficult to distinguish between celebrity and talent, the former making the latter seem a given, rightly or wrongly.
2. The concept of photographer as unique, singular talented worker/artist no longer has validity, at least in the commercial sector, which is where the subject of the thread resides.
3. The concept of photographer as part of a successful group effort is considered enough to make such a photographer´s name, the rest of the troupe not really needing any credit whilst the photographer may take all the glory unto himself.
4. There is a school of thought that believes that success comes from knowing the right people, going to the right parties, being a social animal; in effect, that social grace and/or networking comes before photographic excellence. This might not be a new phenomenon.
5. There is an element of hero worship at play, strong enough to blind the worshipper´s eye to anything less than equal reverence for the hero. Indeed, Nikon v. Canon might be thought a similar case, with the humanity removed from the equation, but the aggression still there.
The purpose of the thread has, as far as the originator is concerned, run its course.
Rob C
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Rob
Thanks a lot, it is exiting to encounter photographers that I was not aware of.
I don’t care if you post images or not, you certainly know your way around photography.
I am on a very slow line at this moment, and have not seen all the links, but it seems to be in a commercial / fashion genre - I am more an art photography guy, do you have any exiting links (and please not to photographers who call them self fine art photographers).
Cheers
T
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216704\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Toby, hi.
Your line might be slow, but my monitor is making vaguely wavey lines at the bottom of the screen so I don´t know how much longer I shall be able to carry on either. I just hope it´s the effect of poor electrical supply and not the death rattles of an old Diamondtron!
Yes, I do have some links to other art-oriented sites, but I have always tended to feel that many fashion people are really artists just working in fashion to support the habit. No dreadful pun intended here. I suppose that after working in the business for longer than most posters here have probably been alive, I damn well should know my way around this world, but thanks, anyway.
Have not the time right now, but promise to find and forward the sites for you.
Rob C
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Toby, hi.
Your line might be slow, but my monitor is making vaguely wavey lines at the bottom of the screen so I don´t know how much longer I shall be able to carry on either. I just hope it´s the effect of poor electrical supply and not the death rattles of an old Diamondtron!
Yes, I do have some links to other art-oriented sites, but I have always tended to feel that many fashion people are really artists just working in fashion to support the habit. No dreadful pun intended here. I suppose that after working in the business for longer than most posters here have probably been alive, I damn well should know my way around this world, but thanks, anyway.
Have not the time right now, but promise to find and forward the sites for you.
Rob C
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=216714\")
Thanks Rob
I am looking forward - here is a link for you, this will keep you busy for a while too, enjoy:
[a href=\"http://www.helsinkischool.fi/]http://www.helsinkischool.fi/[/url]
Toby
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Okay, folks, I started this little thread in the hope of some good, deep insight into creative thinking, how one person sees it in the example of a famous reputation and how another thinks something totally else.
In the end, this proved a somewhat naïve proposition on my part and perhaps at my age I should have known better. Nevertheless, some clear conclusions can be drwn, and from my perspective, here they are.
1. It is difficult to distinguish between celebrity and talent, the former making the latter seem a given, rightly or wrongly.
2. The concept of photographer as unique, singular talented worker/artist no longer has validity, at least in the commercial sector, which is where the subject of the thread resides.
3. The concept of photographer as part of a successful group effort is considered enough to make such a photographer´s name, the rest of the troupe not really needing any credit whilst the photographer may take all the glory unto himself.
4. There is a school of thought that believes that success comes from knowing the right people, going to the right parties, being a social animal; in effect, that social grace and/or networking comes before photographic excellence. This might not be a new phenomenon.
5. There is an element of hero worship at play, strong enough to blind the worshipper´s eye to anything less than equal reverence for the hero. Indeed, Nikon v. Canon might be thought a similar case, with the humanity removed from the equation, but the aggression still there.
The purpose of the thread has, as far as the originator is concerned, run its course.
Rob C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216709\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Stop being so condescending. You come here setting up a thread expecting everyone to think the same way as you.
You dismiss someone who has proven his chops over and over and over again, I find that very blatantly aggressive in the first place.
Stop living in your bubble, teamwork has always existed all the way back in time, centuries ago when your lovely artists had his team of painters to help him.
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Thanks Rob
I am looking forward - here is a link for you, this will keep you busy for a while too, enjoy:
http://www.helsinkischool.fi/ (http://www.helsinkischool.fi/)
Toby
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216719\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks - I have posted a few links to what might be ´art´photography over in a more appropriate section of the forum. I´m only here on this one to keep my promise to you.
Go to:
Art Of Photography
Discussing Photographic Styles
Rob C
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j
Shouting and flapping about... forgive me if I take the liberty to imagine you to be joking here;
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215832\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No really, he yells alot during the taping. It's not flattering.
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Okay, folks, I started this little thread in the hope of some good, deep insight into creative thinking, how one person sees it in the example of a famous reputation and how another thinks something totally else.
In the end, this proved a somewhat naïve proposition on my part and perhaps at my age I should have known better. Nevertheless, some clear conclusions can be drwn, and from my perspective, here they are.
1. It is difficult to distinguish between celebrity and talent, the former making the latter seem a given, rightly or wrongly.
2. The concept of photographer as unique, singular talented worker/artist no longer has validity, at least in the commercial sector, which is where the subject of the thread resides.
3. The concept of photographer as part of a successful group effort is considered enough to make such a photographer´s name, the rest of the troupe not really needing any credit whilst the photographer may take all the glory unto himself.
4. There is a school of thought that believes that success comes from knowing the right people, going to the right parties, being a social animal; in effect, that social grace and/or networking comes before photographic excellence. This might not be a new phenomenon.
5. There is an element of hero worship at play, strong enough to blind the worshipper´s eye to anything less than equal reverence for the hero. Indeed, Nikon v. Canon might be thought a similar case, with the humanity removed from the equation, but the aggression still there.
The purpose of the thread has, as far as the originator is concerned, run its course.
Rob C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216709\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Like I say it takes quite a lot of visual sophistication to understand David's work, you should try putting a little more effort into trying to understand his work, it really is good. I used to turn my nose up at it and I was dead wrong, the better you get the more you understand it.