Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: feppe on July 29, 2008, 01:13:19 pm
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The new LR tutorial is 7.5 hours long? 1.1 tutorial was 4.4 hours long - are there really three hours worth of new features? In any case, I don't have that kind of time to put on a tutorial, or that much interest in LR. Time is money, quantity =/ quality, etc.
Before I even consider buying it, I'd like to know how are the chapters divided? Are there chapters which go through all the new features without wasting my time rehashing the old, or duplicating the 1.1 tutorial which I already have watched?
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The Tutorial, like the upgrade of the program, is new and most definitely improved.
There is a Table of Contents here (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/videos/LR2_ToC.shtml)
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The Tutorial, like the upgrade of the program, is new and most definitely improved.
There is a Table of Contents here (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/videos/LR2_ToC.shtml)
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Well, it seems that the chapter are numerous, so skipping the unnecessary (for me) parts is easy. Thanks!
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More information and/or more complete information sounds like a plus to me!
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The new LR tutorial is 7.5 hours long? 1.1 tutorial was 4.4 hours long - are there really three hours worth of new features? In any case, I don't have that kind of time to put on a tutorial, or that much interest in LR. Time is money, quantity =/ quality, etc.
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While I haven't seen this particular tutorial yet, past videos have been packed full of useful information. I welcome as many hours as they can offer because I'm confident these hours won't be filled with meaningless fluff.
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Well, Michael and Jeff are more entertaining to listen to than half of what's on TV or Radio. Just put the tutorial on in the background while you work and only switch to it when it is something to which you want to pay particular attention.
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But that I had more than a three-minute mind...
Rob C
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I can't resist the glib observation that LR 2 can't be terribly intuitive if it takes 7.5 hours to explain it...
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I can't resist the glib observation that LR 2 can't be terribly intuitive if it takes 7.5 hours to explain it...
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You are quite right of course David - not to you
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Maybe more to the point is that driving a car is intuitive for most of us, but try passing your driving test without a lesson.
Michael
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I can't resist the glib observation that LR 2 can't be terribly intuitive if it takes 7.5 hours to explain it...
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Actually, when Michael asked my what I thought of doing a video tutorial for the next version of Photoshop I told him my life expectancy is too short to spend the time taping it...in point of fact, getting through pretty much all of Lightroom 2.0 in 7.5 hours was due to the editing mastery of Chris...and to be honest, there are some things we had to leave abbreviated because of the time constrains....for example, we could have spent over an hour just on keywording and metadata to take it to a top level. Ot an hour+ just on printing (we didn't need to recover stuff from the printing vid).
So, in the grand scheme of things, getting the tutorial down to 7.5 is actually a feat and also shows that while Lightroom is very deep, even Michael can use it (which should offer a glimmer of hope to the masses of grey haired photographers everywhere).
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Actually, when Michael asked my what I thought of doing a video tutorial for the next version of Photoshop I told him my life expectancy is too short to spend the time taping it...in point of fact, getting through pretty much all of Lightroom 2.0 in 7.5 hours was due to the editing mastery of Chris...and to be honest, there are some things we had to leave abbreviated because of the time constrains....for example, we could have spent over an hour just on keywording and metadata to take it to a top level. Ot an hour+ just on printing (we didn't need to recover stuff from the printing vid).
So, in the grand scheme of things, getting the tutorial down to 7.5 is actually a feat and also shows that while Lightroom is very deep, even Michael can use it (which should offer a glimmer of hope to the masses of grey haired photographers everywhere).
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Well, I'm just through the Develop module, so lots more to go, but though I have the first LR tute series and know my way around LR1.4, I still learned a lot--and felt pretty comfortable with the new things in 2.0 when I started to use it 'in anger'. Sat right down and worked easily with the new filter menu--loved the way I could isolate and find things (actually it was just fun to play with and found things I had forgotten about)--and the same with the gradient tool--pulled in 2 different ones, got to where I wanted without going into PS--and the other new tools too. I wouldn't have been able to do this easily without having watched the videos (admittedly I didn't spend as much time as I had hoped in the beta).
So--I don't think they are too long---someone coming into LR for the first time will have a good foundation for getting to work with it right away--and for those of us that have used it for a good while (and are really used to working a certain way), this refreshes us a bit---and gets us really conversant with all the new things. I can't wait to get to the print module (because I've been waiting/hoping that I could stay in LR for my sharpening instead of leaving and using PKS in PS).
Diane
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So--I don't think they are too long---someone coming into LR for the first time will have a good foundation for getting to work with it right away--and for those of us that have used it for a good while (and are really used to working a certain way), this refreshes us a bit---and gets us really conversant with all the new things. I can't wait to get to the print module (because I've been waiting/hoping that I could stay in LR for my sharpening instead of leaving and using PKS in PS).
Diane
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This is basic problem, really, that I guess confronts all authors of such works. I'm pretty much up to speed with how LR works, but what I'm more interested in is how experts use it to achieve particular effects, such as more advanced colour correction for example. So, maybe splitting things between an "Introduction to Lightroom", with a in-depth but still general overview of the application and (very important) its context, and and an "Advanced Lightroom" which gives away all the best kept trade secrets, and assumes that the audience is already up to speed with the essentials.
Probably doesn't make economic sense, though...
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Yes, 7.5 hours is a long video "tutorial", particularly for such a relatively open, exploration-friendly/penalty-free product. (Hell, in 1927 Abel Gance biographed Napoleon from boyhood through his invasion of Italy in only 5.2 hours...silently.) But that's a consequence of the style of these LL videos. They're structured but unscripted. Let's face it, there's a tremendous amount of empty "personality" footage in these Mutt 'n' Jeff shows (using the expression here, Mike, not calling you "Mutt"). That it's ONLY 7.5 hours and, presumably, conveys quite a bit of new information is unquestionably a loud testimonial to Chris' ever-sharpening production and editing skills.
So, yes, this tutorial does seem like a time investment overkill, particularly if you're already familiar with Lightroom. You just know that at least 6 of those hours will be spent looking at Michael's and Jeff's Macbook Pro lids and enduring their inside-joke chuckling. (This should be sponsored by Apple.) I've no plans to watch every minute of this material, as Lightroom has been my home base for a long time. But the material's topical segments are very well organized and do tend to get to their respective points (a bit more expediently than LL tuts of yore did). So I'll be hopping around to pick up tips and pointers from specific segments.
There will be no shortage of people eager to sell Lightroom tutorials. Since it's just not that complex of a product I suspect that nearly each will cover all requisite material. So just pick your style; book, corporate-style video, or Mike 'n' Jeff yuk-yuk. Or save the cost and just use the time to explore on your own.
Personally, although the LL video style does sometimes set my teeth on edge I chose Mike 'n' Jeff. I'm used to them.
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There is a little unknown benefit one can gain from watching these LLs, even if you know the subject inside and out, and that's all the tips and advice you gain along the way. You get a little insight into how these two go about conducting their business of photography.
Put it anotherway, if I were in a bar and Jay Maisel and Alain Briot sat down at a table together near me ,and began sharing tips and stories about how they shoot pictures, you would listen in, and most likely run the bar tab up to $35 by nights end.
The only way to learn is to become a sponge.
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I'll take the other side of this. If you could do an hour on keywording, why not do it? It's not like this has to fit on a dvd since it's digital download. The only size constraint on the cost side is bandwidth. Why not leave in as much as possible useful info., just break it into a lot of chapters, and let us learn all we can.
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I'll take the other side of this. If you could do an hour on keywording, why not do it?
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Well, couple of reasons...we were working with a late beta that was not RC yet (and that caused us no end of grief) some stuff just didn't work as designed...keywording and other metadata manipulation was one of the items that had to be fixed.
Also, while I do use keywording, I'm not a maven (neither is Mike) and rather than do a half-assed job we decided to do only the basics (and let Chris try to cut around the, uh, inoperative aspects). The other thought (at the time) was for Mike to team up with somebody like Seth Resnick and do a stand-alone drill down on metadata and keywording at some point in the future...perhaps when a certain 3rd party has developed a little something that makes metadata editing easier/better.
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Cradoc's fotoKeyword Harvester is pretty cool.
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somebody like Seth Resnick and do a stand-alone drill down on metadata and keywording at some point in the future[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=213635\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Since you two cite Seth so often, I looked to see if he had a book out LOL--seems he will in November (according to Amazon) and I wonder if he will have an extensive chapter on keywording. I use it a lot---but still feel I'm not using it in the most efficient way.
Diane