Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Hans_de_Kort on July 18, 2008, 12:26:43 pm

Title: moire with P30+
Post by: Hans_de_Kort on July 18, 2008, 12:26:43 pm

Hasselblad H2 80mm/f8 P30+
I am getting crazy with moire while shooting on my P30+
There's almost no shot I can make without moire, but this one is getting beyond every limit.
It's taking too much time retouching those images with DeMoirize pluginn.
Same shots on my 1DsmarkIII almost never have moire.
Will this be a never ending story.
The only remedy that Phaseone is saying shoot on 2.8, without tripod; so why not use my Canon Ixus.

Title: moire with P30+
Post by: yaya on July 18, 2008, 12:36:00 pm

Caprock AA filters (http://www.caprockdev.com/antimoire.htm) may help in reducing/ eliminating colour moire.
However, they do tend to reduce saturation and sharpness quite a bit.

A higher res back will perform batter. Also using a longer lens a pulling back may also work.

Last, if it was a Leaf back, you could have used the Moire filter in LeafCapture, that does a very good job on this type of images and it does it on the raw file....

Yair

Title: moire with P30+
Post by: Paul2660 on July 18, 2008, 12:39:45 pm

Have you tried the Phase One Morie Filter?  It comes with Capture One Software.
It will only work on 8 bit files.  I have had this same problem with blue shirts, but I had it as had with a 1ds MKII.  

I finally had to reshoot and try a longer lens.  

I also posted a similar post I believe in the digital processing forum on this site, and there were some excellent solutions to my problem.  I wasn't able to replicate the best one by a user names foto-z but he describes his method on my post.

It goes back about 4 months but should still be there.

(It's a real pain)
Paul C

Title: moire with P30+
Post by: Paul2660 on July 18, 2008, 12:43:14 pm

Here is a link to that post I referred to.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=25391 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=25391)


It was in the Med. Format Forum

Here is another link:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=25386 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=25386)

I wasn't able to get anything from this link to work.

PFC

Title: moire with P30+
Post by: snickgrr on July 18, 2008, 01:04:28 pm

Nothing to add but some fabric manufacturer should make a moire pattern cloth.  That first photo looks pretty cool.

Title: moire with P30+
Post by: Morgan_Moore on July 18, 2008, 01:26:27 pm

Quote

Hasselblad H2 80mm/f8 P30+
I am getting crazy with moire while shooting on my P30+
There's almost no shot I can make without moire, but this one is getting beyond every limit.
It's taking too much time retouching those images with DeMoirize pluginn.
Same shots on my 1DsmarkIII almost never have moire.
Will this be a never ending story.
The only remedy that Phaseone is saying shoot on 2.8, without tripod; so why not use my Canon Ixus.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=209167\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

you can also vary your shooting distance ie step back - moiree is where the clothe weave and pixel pitch are equal

very impressive the first shot

S

Title: moire with P30+
Post by: carl dw on July 18, 2008, 02:44:30 pm

Quote

Hasselblad H2 80mm/f8 P30+
I am getting crazy with moire while shooting on my P30+
There's almost no shot I can make without moire, but this one is getting beyond every limit.
It's taking too much time retouching those images with DeMoirize pluginn.
Same shots on my 1DsmarkIII almost never have moire.
Will this be a never ending story.
The only remedy that Phaseone is saying shoot on 2.8, without tripod; so why not use my Canon Ixus.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=209167\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hans, sorry to hear of the hassle you're having.

I've come across this with Hasselblad, 1Ds3 and 1Ds2.

The software solutions are limited at best in my opinion.

I've never had success changing distance, maybe you have to move further away than I'm prepared to.

Moire usually occurs with flash; the short exposure time seems to some how 'freeze' and amplify the interference pattern. It's all down to the specific weave in the fabric and the 'pixel pitch' camera you're using.

Solutions are their. You can shoot with tungsten or HMI - moire disappears. Try it hand held if you have a really bad case one.

OR....shoot with film and scan

My other half works for a fashion mag, if moire is a problem (and the budget will stand it) they use film.

Do let us know if you make progress.

Title: moire with P30+
Post by: Paul2660 on July 18, 2008, 03:02:02 pm

I didn't even look at the first picture, the 2nd one has the problem I get, especially around the pocket and waist on the model on the right side of the shot.

Paul C

Title: moire with P30+
Post by: Dustbak on July 18, 2008, 03:02:24 pm

I assume you have already tried all variations, eg. alter your shooting distance, alter your focal length, alter the aperture, alter your focus slightly. In most cases it will at least diminish the moire.

You don't necessarily have to shoot at f2.8 or handheld. Unfortunately some fabric is just horrible with moire. Phase is basically telling you to make an unsharp image which indeed will have no moire.

I also had lots of moire problems which is why I got a multishot back as well, since that moment my moire correcting nights were gone (on static subjects naturally). Even stuff like you showed above is no problem with MS besides the people that are in it

I use moire now as an indication my focus is accurate before taking a multishot, moire in single shot means focus is dead-on.

Even my CF39 exhibits moire but with Phocus there is now an anti-moire tool.

Title: moire with P30+
Post by: James R Russell on July 18, 2008, 07:33:29 pm

Quote

Hasselblad H2 80mm/f8 P30+
I am getting crazy with moire while shooting on my P30+
There's almost no shot I can make without moire, but this one is getting beyond every limit.
It's taking too much time retouching those images with DeMoirize pluginn.
Same shots on my 1DsmarkIII almost never have moire.
Will this be a never ending story.
The only remedy that Phaseone is saying shoot on 2.8, without tripod; so why not use my Canon Ixus.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=209167\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've seen this both on Leaf and Phase, much less on he Canon, but I've seen it.

I've tried everything, inlcuding the makers moire tools, 3rd party plug ins, and the only way I found that really works is to just shoot it.

Then, do a quick edit and come in close on each model reposing the subjects.  Stepping back usually doens't make is disappear, but for some reason getting closer does.

Then I send it to the retoucher and she puts it together.

JR

Title: moire with P30+
Post by: ericisaac on July 18, 2008, 08:33:28 pm

Quote

Hasselblad H2 80mm/f8 P30+
I am getting crazy with moire while shooting on my P30+
There's almost no shot I can make without moire, but this one is getting beyond every limit.
It's taking too much time retouching those images with DeMoirize pluginn.
Same shots on my 1DsmarkIII almost never have moire.
Will this be a never ending story.
The only remedy that Phaseone is saying shoot on 2.8, without tripod; so why not use my Canon Ixus.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=209167\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

wow, that has got to be the worse case of moire I have ever seen. Was that the actual file or a screen shot of the C1Pro screen? Looks like a screen shot. The rez of those c1 previews is horrible so you always see what I call "preview moire".

-e

Title: moire with P30+
Post by: Hans_de_Kort on July 19, 2008, 01:10:42 am

This example is cropped from a halftotal shot of the models and the right one is the retouched version (PS3 with demoirize-pluginn in rosetta).
I tried this shot further away (1 and  2 meters) but no difference.
You can only get the colors out of the moire but never the pattern, so the moire will change the structure of some garments.
What I understand the only real solution is making out of focus shots with this wonderfull equipment.

Title: moire with P30+
Post by: lance_schad on July 19, 2008, 01:45:28 am

Quote

Hasselblad H2 80mm/f8 P30+
I am getting crazy with moire while shooting on my P30+
There's almost no shot I can make without moire, but this one is getting beyond every limit.
It's taking too much time retouching those images with DeMoirize pluginn.
Same shots on my 1DsmarkIII almost never have moire.
Will this be a never ending story.
The only remedy that Phaseone is saying shoot on 2.8, without tripod; so why not use my Canon Ixus.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=209167\")

Have you used the De'Moire tool inside of 3.7x? It allows you to do at the removal in RAW.It is the toll that looks like the eyedropper with // besides it.
Here is the link to the manual:
[a href=\"http://216.93.185.225/d92ee3d0-66d0-4d44-85a3-cf8cbfaaf0fa/8e5daeb8-8fea-4c61-afea-a4b17aa1327e/moire_tools_-_quick_guide.pdf]http://216.93.185.225/d92ee3d0-66d0-4d44-8...quick_guide.pdf[/url]
I also put a video link up of the tool being shown @ http://youtube.com/watch?v=nGbAdoYg4Dw (http://youtube.com/watch?v=nGbAdoYg4Dw)
Also here is are two images of before and after.

Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Direct: 305-534-5701 x1 | Cell: 305-394-3196
Toll Free: 877-217-9870
Capture Integration  (http://www.captureintegration.com)
 ()

Title: moire with P30+
Post by: lance_schad on July 19, 2008, 01:47:55 am

Quote

Hasselblad H2 80mm/f8 P30+
I am getting crazy with moire while shooting on my P30+
There's almost no shot I can make without moire, but this one is getting beyond every limit.
It's taking too much time retouching those images with DeMoirize pluginn.
Same shots on my 1DsmarkIII almost never have moire.
Will this be a never ending story.
The only remedy that Phaseone is saying shoot on 2.8, without tripod; so why not use my Canon Ixus.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=209167\")

Have you used the De'Moire tool inside of 3.7x? It allows you to do at the removal in RAW.It is the too that looks like the eyedropper with // besides it.
Here is the link to the manual:
[a href=\"http://216.93.185.225/d92ee3d0-66d0-4d44-85a3-cf8cbfaaf0fa/8e5daeb8-8fea-4c61-afea-a4b17aa1327e/moire_tools_-_quick_guide.pdf]http://216.93.185.225/d92ee3d0-66d0-4d44-8...quick_guide.pdf[/url]
I also put a video link up of the tool being shown @ http://youtube.com/watch?v=nGbAdoYg4Dw (http://youtube.com/watch?v=nGbAdoYg4Dw)
Also here is are two images of before and after.
[attachment=7527:attachment][attachment=7528:attachment]

Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Direct: 305-534-5701 x1 | Cell: 305-394-3196
Toll Free: 877-217-9870
Capture Integration  (http://www.captureintegration.com)
 ()

Title: moire with P30+
Post by: Paul2660 on July 19, 2008, 10:22:34 am

The tool appears to only work on mac's .  Any reason it can't be put into the Windows version?

Paul C

Title: moire with P30+
Post by: rainer_v on July 19, 2008, 01:18:02 pm

Quote

The tool appears to only work on mac's .  Any reason it can't be put into the Windows version?

Paul C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=209364\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

pm me for the set of caprock filters i have sleeping  in my basement