Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Lightroom Q&A => Topic started by: Robert Chapman on May 20, 2008, 04:38:17 pm
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I noticed with my D300 that the photos "have snap" in the first few seconds after they are imported raw from the camera and then, as LR's processing catches up, they suddenly go "flat", most notably in the reds and oranges. When I loaded the raw files into Capture NX, they were much "snappier". I recently acquired a D3 and the problem is even worse. The LR conversions look dull compared to the same NEFs loaded into NX. With the D3 files, highlight detail in LR appears blown out where it is clearly visible in the NX conversion, and at the same time, shadow detail visible in NX is lost in LR. I love LR, but it's NEF conversions are terrible. Does anyone else have this problem? Sorry for all the non-technical terms, I'm just trying to describe what I see.
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Are you doing anything to add "snap" to the files in LR or are these default conversions compared to default conversions?
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Are you doing anything to add "snap" to the files in LR or are these default conversions compared to default conversions?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196857\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
These are the default conversions. Reducing the exposure by 0.5 and increasing saturation by +8 brings the appearance closer, but it doesn't solve the issue of blown highlights/lost shadow detail. It seems like some DR has been lost.
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Does anyone else have this problem?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196853\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Robert-The "problem" is not new to this forum or most any LR forum. Do a search or scan the threads. You will find literally hundreds of comments regarding Nikon, LR and/or ACR.
--Dave
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Robert,
Welcome to the world of RAW.
Yes, when the file is first imported it looks "good", then turns to "not so good". The "good" is the embedded jpeg that is in the raw file used as a preview in many programs and what you see on the camera LCD. What you see in LR and ACR is the raw file with a little processing done to make it visible.
Something like this[attachment=6665:attachment].
This is what LR is capable of [attachment=6666:attachment]
If I may suggest some good reading Adobe white papers (http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/ps_pro_primers.html)
Don't worry, they are not too dry and they are not too long. Start with the one by Jeff Shewe and Bruce Fraser.
Also consider the Tutorials and Understanding series on the front page of this site. Some of it may seem a little dated but the basics still hold true. Also seriously consider the video tutorials by Michael and Jeff also available here.
HTH
Rich
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Robert,
Welcome to the world of RAW.
Yes, when the file is first imported it looks "good", then turns to "not so good". The "good" is the embedded jpeg that is in the raw file used as a preview in many programs and what you see on the camera LCD. What you see in LR and ACR is the raw file with a little processing done to make it visible.
Something like this[attachment=6665:attachment].
This is what LR is capable of [attachment=6666:attachment]
If I may suggest some good reading Adobe white papers (http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/ps_pro_primers.html)
Don't worry, they are not too dry and they are not too long. Start with the one by Jeff Shewe and Bruce Fraser.
Also consider the Tutorials and Understanding series on the front page of this site. Some of it may seem a little dated but the basics still hold true. Also seriously consider the video tutorials by Michael and Jeff also available here.
HTH
Rich
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196889\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks, Rich - you explained the "good - not so good" process. I've started reading and tweaking
but I still haven't found how to tweak Lightroom as "good" as untweaked Capture NX.
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I noticed with my D300 that the photos "have snap" in the first few seconds after they are imported raw from the camera and then, as LR's processing catches up, they suddenly go "flat", most notably in the reds and oranges. When I loaded the raw files into Capture NX, they were much "snappier". I recently acquired a D3 and the problem is even worse. The LR conversions look dull compared to the same NEFs loaded into NX. With the D3 files, highlight detail in LR appears blown out where it is clearly visible in the NX conversion, and at the same time, shadow detail visible in NX is lost in LR. I love LR, but it's NEF conversions are terrible. Does anyone else have this problem? Sorry for all the non-technical terms, I'm just trying to describe what I see.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196853\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The first views of the raw files in ACR or Lightroom are from the embedded JPEGs with whatever camera settings were in use, as previously pointed out. NX reads the camera settings and usually pretty well duplicates the appearance of the in camera JPEG. ACR and LR ignore the camera settings except for the white balance and you need to know how to adjust the development parameters to get the proper effect.
For one thing, the Adobe programs use a BaselineExposure offset of +0.5 EV for the Nikon D3 and D300. This reportedly is to give the same results with the D3 and D300 as with other cameras, but personally I don't think it is a good idea. You might try using an exposure compensation of -0.5 EV in LR.
I have been getting good results with my D3 and ACR and suspect you could do the same if you invest a bit of time using LR (which uses the same raw engine as ACR). You might post a couple of your problem NEFs (use usendit if necessary).
Bill
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The first views of the raw files in ACR or Lightroom are from the embedded JPEGs with whatever camera settings were in use, as previously pointed out. NX reads the camera settings and usually pretty well duplicates the appearance of the in camera JPEG. ACR and LR ignore the camera settings except for the white balance and you need to know how to adjust the development parameters to get the proper effect.
For one thing, the Adobe programs use a BaselineExposure offset of +0.5 EV for the Nikon D3 and D300. This reportedly is to give the same results with the D3 and D300 as with other cameras, but personally I don't think it is a good idea. You might try using an exposure compensation of -0.5 EV in LR.
I have been getting good results with my D3 and ACR and suspect you could do the same if you invest a bit of time using LR (which uses the same raw engine as ACR). You might post a couple of your problem NEFs (use usendit if necessary).
Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196919\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks, Bill. I had found that -0.5 on the exposure helped with the overall appearance, and setting hue for red at +13 and orange at -19 brought most of the colours pretty close, but I'm still not seeing the shadow detail in LR that I see in NX. Still working on it...
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I noticed with my D300 that the photos "have snap" in the first few seconds after they are imported raw from the camera and then, as LR's processing catches up, they suddenly go "flat", most notably in the reds and oranges. When I loaded the raw files into Capture NX, they were much "snappier". I recently acquired a D3 and the problem is even worse. The LR conversions look dull compared to the same NEFs loaded into NX. With the D3 files, highlight detail in LR appears blown out where it is clearly visible in the NX conversion, and at the same time, shadow detail visible in NX is lost in LR. I love LR, but it's NEF conversions are terrible. Does anyone else have this problem? Sorry for all the non-technical terms, I'm just trying to describe what I see.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196853\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I use LR for my D300...Do you have the LL LR tutorials? I have just downloaded the new ACR turorial..it is really good and is very useful for LR also. It is well worth the $40.00, IMO.
Steve
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Robert,
Welcome to the world of RAW.
Yes, when the file is first imported it looks "good", then turns to "not so good". The "good" is the embedded jpeg that is in the raw file used as a preview in many programs and what you see on the camera LCD. What you see in LR and ACR is the raw file with a little processing done to make it visible.
Something like this[attachment=6665:attachment].
This is what LR is capable of [attachment=6666:attachment]
If I may suggest some good reading Adobe white papers (http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/ps_pro_primers.html)
Don't worry, they are not too dry and they are not too long. Start with the one by Jeff Shewe and Bruce Fraser.
Also consider the Tutorials and Understanding series on the front page of this site. Some of it may seem a little dated but the basics still hold true. Also seriously consider the video tutorials by Michael and Jeff also available here.
HTH
Rich
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196889\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for that white paper link!