Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: geronimo13 on April 15, 2008, 05:13:23 am
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Hi!
I'm planning to take the leap into mfdb photography.
I currently use a 1ds mk II which i plan to keep for some jobs where i need the high iso and speed.
Mostly do studio/on location work with strobes though so i would use the db for about 80% of my current shoots.
I've been qouted a p21+ or a refurb p30 for almost the same price. But i have no clue which one to choose. The newer improved p21+ och the older p30 with higher mpixels?
Will either get the h1 och new phase one camera, haven't decided yet, probably the phase one due to lower price
Any thoughts on this? All comments are welcomed
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Hi!
I'm planning to take the leap into mfdb photography.
I currently use a 1ds mk II which i plan to keep for some jobs where i need the high iso and speed.
Mostly do studio/on location work with strobes though so i would use the db for about 80% of my current shoots.
I've been qouted a p21+ or a refurb p30 for almost the same price. But i have no clue which one to choose. The newer improved p21+ och the older p30 with higher mpixels?
Will either get the h1 och new phase one camera, haven't decided yet, probably the phase one due to lower price
Any thoughts on this? All comments are welcomed
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189626\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Noone?
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Hi!
I'm planning to take the leap into mfdb photography.
I currently use a 1ds mk II which i plan to keep for some jobs where i need the high iso and speed.
Mostly do studio/on location work with strobes though so i would use the db for about 80% of my current shoots.
I've been qouted a p21+ or a refurb p30 for almost the same price. But i have no clue which one to choose. The newer improved p21+ och the older p30 with higher mpixels?
Will either get the h1 och new phase one camera, haven't decided yet, probably the phase one due to lower price
Any thoughts on this? All comments are welcomed
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189626\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The + series has very little advantage in file quality against the P (non +) series. A better screen and 1600 Iso in the P30 +. Better noise at hight ISO.
I think both has the same look. Very film like at 400 or 800. Almost same speed. Same crop factot (1,3). If you need the pixels go for the P30. Maybe it has better second hand value too due to the pixel count.
But if 30 Mpx is definitely overkill go for the P21+. Better user experience for sure because the LCD screen of non + series really is a pain. Not that I care so much because I mostly use it for the histogram but a good screen is appreciated.
H series vs Phase camera. PhaseOne without doubt. I've had two H series and it never felt like a real camera. Loved the quality but hated the prices, the accessories options and the user experience.
At a glance, if you can't afford the P30+ I think I'd go for the p21+ with a PhaseOne camera.
Hope it helps.
/Samuel
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The + series has very little advantage in file quality against the P (non +) series. A better screen and 1600 Iso in the P30 +. Better noise at hight ISO.
I think both has the same look. Very film like at 400 or 800. Almost same speed. Same crop factot (1,3). If you need the pixels go for the P30. Maybe it has better second hand value too due to the pixel count.
But if 30 Mpx is definitely overkill go for the P21+. Better user experience for sure because the LCD screen of non + series really is a pain. Not that I care so much because I mostly use it for the histogram but a good screen is appreciated.
H series vs Phase camera. PhaseOne without doubt. I've had two H series and it never felt like a real camera. Loved the quality but hated the prices, the accessories options and the user experience.
At a glance, if you can't afford the P30+ I think I'd go for the p21+ with a PhaseOne camera.
Hope it helps.
/Samuel
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189711\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
How is the noise on non + against + series at 400? I will only use lcd for quick preview and histogram.
Will i se any diffrence between the files from p21+ compared to my 1ds2?
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How is the noise on non + against + series at 400? I will only use lcd for quick preview and histogram.
Will i se any diffrence between the files from p21+ compared to my 1ds2?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189713\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The P21+ is a killer little back. I love it.
It's fast, even on large IQ and on large IQ at 800 iso in V4 is very clean, even underexposed.
The P30 has way more detail, but I'm not big on seeing everything everywhere at every distance so for a lot of work I use the P21+ vs. my P30+, though both have a place.
the lcd on the plus series is better, except in bright sunlight withere I love the original lcd as I was zoned in on it.
Both are solid backs.
JR
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The P21+ is a good little back.
It's fast, even on large IQ and on large IQ at 800 iso in V4 is very clean, even underexposed and V4 seems to have better noise reduction vs. 3.78.
The P30 has way more detail, but I'm not big on seeing everything everywhere at every distance and I somewhat lke the grain (noise) structure of the P21 but that is personal prefernce, like all of these decisions.
the lcd on the plus series is better, except in bright sunlight withere I love the original lcd as I was zoned in on it.
JR
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Russel! Would you choose the p21+ over the p30? Even though more resolution is nice in tempted of the features of the +. I will try borrow both from my dealer. Could you send me some pics from both backs so i can compare? Have you been able to tell any diffrence from your previous non plus back?
Is it possible using a mf hasselblad lens on a mamiya and get higher sync speeds until the leaf lenses become available?
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If you work like James Russell and need a bit of speed or lots of natural lighting people shots etc etc, then a plus serries is real nice. If you are a landscape photographer, then "all you should care about" is IQ and nothing else - if money is a limmiting factor. So the P30 will reveal a bit more detail with good lenses. As I like landscapes with plenty of light, I would get a P30 and be done with it (well actually obviously I would prefer a P25, but I digress).
For example, if you happen to beconfined to a studio, why not pick up a H25 for far less than either of the backs you mentioned and probably better image quality than either.
My point is, when peole ask should I get X or Y or Z back, sooner or latter some smart a$$ like me will ask what you want it for
Russel! Would you choose the p21+ over the p30? Even though more resolution is nice in tempted of the features of the +. I will try borrow both from my dealer. Could you send me some pics from both backs so i can compare? Have you been able to tell any diffrence from your previous non plus back?
Is it possible using a mf hasselblad lens on a mamiya and get higher sync speeds until the leaf lenses become available?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189743\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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If you work like James Russell and need a bit of speed or lots of natural lighting people shots etc etc, then a plus serries is real nice. If you are a landscape photographer, then "all you should care about" is IQ and nothing else - if money is a limmiting factor. So the P30 will reveal a bit more detail with good lenses. As I like landscapes with plenty of light, I would get a P30 and be done with it (well actually obviously I would prefer a P25, but I digress).
For example, if you happen to beconfined to a studio, why not pick up a H25 for far less than either of the backs you mentioned and probably better image quality than either.
My point is, when peole ask should I get X or Y or Z back, sooner or latter some smart a$$ like me will ask what you want it for
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189746\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I only shoot ppl. www.dkj.se/newstuff my recent gigs , judge for yourself
What about manual hassie lenses for higher sync speed?
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The main difference with the p25 or H25 is the microlenses that the p21 and p30 have. It will give you way better hight ISO. THIS (http://samuelaxelsson.com/temp/la_preview/) gallery shows some P21 quick previews at ISO 400 in natural light.
About your markII, both p21 or p30 will give you wonderful files compared. Both detail and color...
To me it looks that your back is the P21+ (if you don't need the bigger file size)
Nice work by the way...
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Thank you!
what back are you using?
The main difference with the p25 or H25 is the microlenses that the p21 and p30 have. It will give you way better hight ISO. THIS (http://samuelaxelsson.com/temp/la_preview/) gallery shows some P21 quick previews at ISO 400 in natural light.
About your markII, both p21 or p30 will give you wonderful files compared. Both detail and color...
To me it looks that your back is the P21+ (if you don't need the bigger file size)
Nice work by the way...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189782\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thank you!
what back are you using?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189783\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Now I'm using a P20 with a 503CW but I've used a P21 with H2 very intensively until a month ago.
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Thank you!
what back are you using?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189783\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
These are ISO 800
(http://www.samuelaxelsson.com/photographs/last/images/2007_02_16_OEME_25.jpg)
(http://www.samuelaxelsson.com/photographs/last/images/2007_02_16_OEME_24.jpg)
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These are ISO 800
(http://www.samuelaxelsson.com/photographs/last/images/2007_02_16_OEME_25.jpg)
(http://www.samuelaxelsson.com/photographs/last/images/2007_02_16_OEME_24.jpg)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189787\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
on the non plus p21?
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on the non plus p21?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189788\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes.
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Russel! Would you choose the p21+ over the p30? Even though more resolution is nice in tempted of the features of the +. I will try borrow both from my dealer. Could you send me some pics from both backs so i can compare? Have you been able to tell any diffrence from your previous non plus back?
Is it possible using a mf hasselblad lens on a mamiya and get higher sync speeds until the leaf lenses become available?
-
Hi!
I'm planning to take the leap into mfdb photography.
I currently use a 1ds mk II which i plan to keep for some jobs where i need the high iso and speed.
Mostly do studio/on location work with strobes though so i would use the db for about 80% of my current shoots.
I've been qouted a p21+ or a refurb p30 for almost the same price. But i have no clue which one to choose. The newer improved p21+ och the older p30 with higher mpixels?
Will either get the h1 och new phase one camera, haven't decided yet, probably the phase one due to lower price
Any thoughts on this? All comments are welcomed
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189626\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Take a look at the skin tones, I'm looking to upgrade too. You seem to shoot a lot of skin, like me, and as much as I like the specs on the phase one backs I have yet to see good skin tones anywhere. Don't get me wrong, there's lots of amazing work out there, a testament to the person behind the camera, but they're all ppd to look a certain way and none that I've seen have natural tones and colors.
david
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Take a look at the skin tones, I'm looking to upgrade too. You seem to shoot a lot of skin, like me, and as much as I like the specs on the phase one backs I have yet to see good skin tones anywhere. Don't get me wrong, there's lots of amazing work out there, a testament to the person behind the camera, but they're all ppd to look a certain way and none that I've seen have natural tones and colors.
david
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189900\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi what back would you recomend? What system are you using today?
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Hi what back would you recomend? What system are you using today?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189901\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm back to where I started for now which is a Contax & Kodak. I bought a P45 last year and finally sold it after struggling with its skin tones. It has great resolution and all, wonderful for landscape work but I could never get the colors and tones that I got from the Kodak. I know its dated and a dinosaur but it has the qualities that are important for me. I'm now deciding between the Leaf 54s & 75s, the skin tones are very good and from what I hear so are the older backs with the new software. I'm taking both out next week to see which one I'll like. I'm not a commercial photographer so the mp count isn't really that important to me. For now I get what I need from the Contax/Kodak and a Fuji S5 dslr. I selected both of these cameras based on their colors, depth of tones and dynamic range and nothing else, but I'm hoping for one of the Leaf backs to deliver the goods.
david
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I'm back to where I started for now which is a Contax & Kodak. I bought a P45 last year and finally sold it after struggling with its skin tones. It has great resolution and all, wonderful for landscape work but I could never get the colors and tones that I got from the Kodak. I know its dated and a dinosaur but it has the qualities that are important for me. I'm now deciding between the Leaf 54s & 75s, the skin tones are very good and from what I hear so are the older backs with the new software. I'm taking both out next week to see which one I'll like. I'm not a commercial photographer so the mp count isn't really that important to me. For now I get what I need from the Contax/Kodak and a Fuji S5 dslr. I selected both of these cameras based on their colors, depth of tones and dynamic range and nothing else, but I'm hoping for one of the Leaf backs to deliver the goods.
david
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189910\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi!
Interesting thoughts. What are the prices for 54s & 75s? Are there refurbs available?
Would like to see what you come up to regarding this.
please keep me updated, daniel [at] dkj.se
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Russel! Would you choose the p21+ over the p30? Even though more resolution is nice in tempted of the features of the +. I will try borrow both from my dealer. Could you send me some pics from both backs so i can compare? Have you been able to tell any diffrence from your previous non plus back?
Is it possible using a mf hasselblad lens on a mamiya and get higher sync speeds until the leaf lenses become available?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=189882\")
No I woldn't chose one of the other full time as they have a different look, though if I only had one the p21 or the p30 it would be fine also. (if that makes any sense)
I don't have apples to apples comparisions and these two images are way different in genre and lens, lighting, processing etc., but at least they show a level of detail.
This p21 file is shot horizontal and full length people. My first rule of digital capture is if I can see eyelashes full length, then I'm pretty much ok and if you think about this image you figure if you cut the person on the right out of the frame it's an 8mp camera, which somewhat surprises me to get this detail, especially on a moving subject.
[a href=\"http://ishotit.com/p21plus.jpg]http://ishotit.com/p21plus.jpg[/url]
http://ishotit.com/p30plus.jpg (http://ishotit.com/p30plus.jpg)
and a p30 file retouched which won't compare with the above but if you look close there is a different in smoothness between the p30 and the p21, but once again remember these are different lighting setups different genres, etc.
As far as the film like look between any of these cameras, all I can say is bunk.
They all shoot and process a little different (depending on converter) but they all can be made to look like the other with very little work.
The P30 in Raw Developer looks to me like the Leaf in CS1, etc. etc.
I do think that all medium format cameras are way too color sensitive for ambient color, though have noticed that C-1 V4 seems to have addressed that and to me has much more pleaseing skintones than I was getting out of 3.78 and lightroom.
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....pe=post&id=6115 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=6115)
JR
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Hi!
Interesting thoughts. What are the prices for 54s & 75s? Are there refurbs available?
Would like to see what you come up to regarding this.
please keep me updated, daniel [at] dkj.se
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189922\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I haven't researched used/refurbished prices thoroughly yet but they seem to be all over the place initially, specially on the 75s. I'll let you know when I test them and how they compare to the old Kodak.
david
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No I woldn't chose one of the other full time as they have a different look, though if I only had one the p21 or the p30 it would be fine also. (if that makes any sense)
I don't have apples to apples comparisions and these two images are way different in genre and lens, lighting, processing etc., but at least they show a level of detail.
This p21 file is shot horizontal and full length people. My first rule of digital capture is if I can see eyelashes full length, then I'm pretty much ok and if you think about this image you figure if you cut the person on the right out of the frame it's an 8mp camera, which somewhat surprises me to get this detail, especially on a moving subject.
http://ishotit.com/p21plus.jpg (http://ishotit.com/p21plus.jpg)
http://ishotit.com/p30plus.jpg (http://ishotit.com/p30plus.jpg)
and a p30 file retouched which won't compare with the above but if you look close there is a different in smoothness between the p30 and the p21, but once again remember these are different lighting setups different genres, etc.
As far as the film like look between any of these cameras, all I can say is bunk.
They all shoot and process a little different (depending on converter) but they all can be made to look like the other with very little work.
The P30 in Raw Developer looks to me like the Leaf in CS1, etc. etc.
I do think that all medium format cameras are way too color sensitive for ambient color, though have noticed that C-1 V4 seems to have addressed that and to me has much more pleaseing skintones than I was getting out of 3.78 and lightroom.
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....pe=post&id=6115 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=6115)
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189971\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi!
Thank you. Will test both p21+ and p30 and evaluate.