Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: eleanorbrown on November 06, 2007, 05:01:06 pm
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Wow! what can I say---this new epson paper wins the prize in my book. Just got my hands on a few samples printing both black and white and color on my epson 7800 with K3 ink set. I have nothing bad to say about this paper except that I don't think it comes in rolls. This is a beautiful heavy weight bright white paper with a soft gloss (not as glossy as the Harman and Hahnemuhle latest offerings) and a texture to die for! Epson has a winner with this texture...subtle and smooth, yet more pronounced than the harman or hahnumuhle texture. I'm a super compulsively particular former silver printer that's always looking for something in digital media to match or exceed the best qualities of my silver papers. Of the latest three offerings (Harman, Hahnemuhle, and now, Epson) this paper "feels" the most substantial---meaning it will "corner" mount the best without buckling. It is also brighter white than the harman (can't remember about the Hahnemuhle). The epson has no gloss differential (or none of any consequence) and no bronzing (again, using my K3 inks and Imageprint). Eleanor
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Is this paper actually available somewhere now? I thought it was going to be out at the end of the month.
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To my knowledge, it is not available. Jim Doyle of shadesofpaper sent me a small sample pack to test. eleanor
Is this paper actually available somewhere now? I thought it was going to be out at the end of the month.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150978\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I got a sample pack at PhotoPlus. Also love the weight. It would be nice if they put it on rolls. The rep at the show said he did not think it would be a problem to do so but said nothing about any immediate plans for it. I guess they are trying to determine the demand.
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The paper weight is fantastic. I would buy it in rolls in a heartbeat. I have no problem with the Museo Silver Rag(heavy and stiff) in rolls, this epson paper shouldn't be a problem. eleanor
I got a sample pack at PhotoPlus. Also love the weight. It would be nice if they put it on rolls. The rep at the show said he did not think it would be a problem to do so but said nothing about any immediate plans for it. I guess they are trying to determine the demand.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150990\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I got some early samples to print on my 3800 and its now my favorite paper. It makes Luster look sick in comparison. Should be available very soon (next few weeks or less).
When you do get the paper, there's this:
http://pixelgenius.com/epson/ (http://pixelgenius.com/epson/)
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Epson, please make rolls!
The 24x30 sheet size nearly kills the paper option for me.
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Totally agree. If epson decided not to make rolls this is going to be very very problematic for me too. I'm ready to make this my standard fine art paper for both color and black and white but I need rolls---24 inch rolls and I know those who own larger printers than a 24 inch one, will definitely want rolls. Shipping 24X30 paper without any damage whatsoever, is again, problematic in itself. The Crane Museo and Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl go through my printer and cut with no difficulty---this epson paper should do the same.
Please Epson, make us roll paper in this weight paper! eleanor
Epson, please make rolls!
The 24x30 sheet size nearly kills the paper option for me.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151039\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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It makes Luster look sick in comparison.
Umm---Epson Premium Luster Photo Paper will always look sick even with nothing to compare it to. Still some customers like it so I'm keeping a small stock of it handy ...
-- Olaf
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Epson, please make rolls!
The 24x30 sheet size nearly kills the paper option for me.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151039\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
There have been reports from "reliable sources" that the Innova Fibaprint Ultra Smooth Gloss paper is essentailly the same paper as the Epson Exhibition Fiber paper. (Epson does nto make its own papers, and Innova probably does not either.) I have tried the Innova paper and it is superb. It is also available in rolls. I have not been able to obtain any samples ofthe Epson paper yet to compare side by side with the Innova, but I have tried the new Epson profiles for the Exhibition Fiber paper with the Innova on my 9800 and they do work quite well. Innova's own profiles for the Ultra Smooth Gloss paper are NOT identical to Epson's but I would expect there to be some differences for profiles for the same paper depending upon how they were created.
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I did a quick comparison of this Innova paper 285 and the new epson exhibition gloss. Used the Innova Imageprint profile for both papers and printed an identical file. Surface is very very similar but these two papers are in different worlds as far as I'm concerned....the Innova 285 is flimsy, and lightweight and personally I would never use this paper for a client and it is horribly expensive for a paper that lightweight. This epson is quite heavy and much stiffer, lays flat, feels substantial in hand, looks like a first rate fine art paper. Keep in mind, however, that I have a strong personal preference for heavy weight papers. eleanor
There have been reports from "reliable sources" that the Innova Fibaprint Ultra Smooth Gloss paper is essentailly the same paper as the Epson Exhibition Fiber paper. (Epson does nto make its own papers, and Innova probably does not either.) I have tried the Innova paper and it is superb. It is also available in rolls. I have not been able to obtain any samples ofthe Epson paper yet to compare side by side with the Innova, but I have tried the new Epson profiles for the Exhibition Fiber paper with the Innova on my 9800 and they do work quite well. Innova's own profiles for the Ultra Smooth Gloss paper are NOT identical to Epson's but I would expect there to be some differences for profiles for the same paper depending upon how they were created.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151089\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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There have been reports from "reliable sources" that the Innova Fibaprint Ultra Smooth Gloss paper is essentailly the same paper as the Epson Exhibition Fiber paper.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151089\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Its also been reported that while they are very similar the Epson has a coating that is different and optimized for the Epson inksets.
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I don't think that such reports are reliable at all.
I've heard over the years that Epson doesn't make its own papers, and that this or that is the same thing as the Epson product.
Well if that's the case why are Epson papers almost always free of defects, no bent corners, no paper curl, no uneven surfaces. Their products are remarkably consistent, and actually perform quite well. To date I've only seen one defect in an Epson sheet and that was a 17x22 piece of VFA, and it was a single small blemish.
So far the only 3rd party manufacturer that operates in the same league as Epson is Hahnemuhle. Innova, Premier and Crane all suffer from defects here and there (in my experience).
Epson may very well contract with other manufacturers to produce their papers, but if so they keep very tight quality control over the process, and seem to always make sure that these controls are not applied to papers destined for other manufacturers. Epson Exhibition Fiber (Maybe I'll be the first to use what will be a common acronym here - EFF) sounds like it is going to continue in that tradition.
There have been reports from "reliable sources" that the Innova Fibaprint Ultra Smooth Gloss paper is essentailly the same paper as the Epson Exhibition Fiber paper. (Epson does nto make its own papers, and Innova probably does not either.) I have tried the Innova paper and it is superb. It is also available in rolls. I have not been able to obtain any samples ofthe Epson paper yet to compare side by side with the Innova, but I have tried the new Epson profiles for the Exhibition Fiber paper with the Innova on my 9800 and they do work quite well. Innova's own profiles for the Ultra Smooth Gloss paper are NOT identical to Epson's but I would expect there to be some differences for profiles for the same paper depending upon how they were created.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151089\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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So looking forward to this new paper, I just tried the new Harman Gloss baryta paper and it is the best inkjet paper I've seen by a million miles, it does make epson luster look ill. It's a good time to be a photographer.
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In my opinion the so called "luster" papers aren't even in the same league as these new papers--no comparison. The epson samples I've tested of the Exhibition fiber was flawless--not only was attention given to the surface coating and texture, but the paper itself, is, in my book, "ideal"---it's sturdy, lays flat, feels good in hand. I also like the new Harman paper and have tried the new Hahnemuhle paper but it was too glossy for my tastes and also felt a little "floppy" in hand. eleanor
So looking forward to this new paper, I just tried the new Harman Gloss baryta paper and it is the best inkjet paper I've seen by a million miles, it does make epson luster look ill. It's a good time to be a photographer.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151162\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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To clear up a possible misconception, Epson will produce the paper in four sizes, NOT just the 24x30. I've got a 3800, and you guys had me worried for a moment... 8-)
Gonna try it as soon as I can get it.
JC
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Hi Gang
I recieved Pricing on this product today and I posted it on my front page of the website. I am under the impression it will be available the week of the 19th..
My Company Shades Of Paper will be taking pre orders!
If you have questions Call my Office!
Cheers
Jim Doyle
www.shadesofpaper.com
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Jesus tap dancing christ. I'd have to call my banker.
Hi Gang
I recieved Pricing on this product today and I posted it on my front page of the website. I am under the impression it will be available the week of the 19th..
My Company Shades Of Paper will be taking pre orders!
If you have questions Call my Office!
Cheers
Jim Doyle
www.shadesofpaper.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151234\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I recieved Pricing on this product today and I posted it on my front page of the website.
www.shadesofpaper.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151234\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's the list price. I'm sure you'll see that come down a little shortly.
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I did a quick comparison of this Innova paper 285 and the new epson exhibition gloss. Used the Innova Imageprint profile for both papers and printed an identical file. Surface is very very similar but these two papers are in different worlds as far as I'm concerned....the Innova 285 is flimsy, and lightweight and personally I would never use this paper for a client and it is horribly expensive for a paper that lightweight. This epson is quite heavy and much stiffer, lays flat, feels substantial in hand, looks like a first rate fine art paper. Keep in mind, however, that I have a strong personal preference for heavy weight papers. eleanor
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We must be talking about different papers. The Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss is hardly "flimsy". It's weight is about 10% less than the Epson Exhibition Fiber paper. And it IS available in rolls. I spoke with the Epson Pro Graphics manager in NYC at Photo Expo last month and he confirmed that Epson will NOT be offering it in rolls, so it is a non-starter for anyone who prints large. (Most of the prints I sell run between 24x30 and 30x40.) I also find that the Epson and Innova papers have more of a lustre like surface than I prefer. The Harman version is smoother and, IMO, gets in the way less of looking into the image.
I do agree, BTW, with another poster about Epson's quality control. It is excellent. I have used Epson Premium Semi-Matte in rolls for years and it has been flawless. Not ideal because that paper is somewhat "flimsy", but I have been unwilling to accept the trade-off that we had to make until recently of deep blacks and a broad color gamut for a paper that feels better in the hand.
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Ok, isn't the Innova paper the one that is 285 grams? I had a box left with 2 sheets in it that I'd ordered to try---the box said Innova fibaprint ultrasmooth glossy 285. the paper I had in that box curled on the edges--didn't lay really flat, and felt too floppy for me. I remember thinking it was very expensive for such a light feeling paper. Paper "feel" (important to me) doesn't necessarily parallel listed weights---I commented that I liked the new Epson because it "feels" heavier, thicker, and stiffer and more substantial (than even the Harman baryta that I also like that I think is about the same 'weight".)
Speaking of high pricing, this new Epson Exhibition listed prices are very high but Epson allows unadvertised discounts---I know shades of paper discounts this Epson paper but you have to email or call for prices because the lower prices can't be listed on the site. eleanor
We must be talking about different papers. The Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss is hardly "flimsy". It's weight is about 10% less than the Epson Exhibition Fiber paper. And it IS available in rolls. I spoke with the Epson Pro Graphics manager in NYC at Photo Expo last month and he confirmed that Epson will NOT be offering it in rolls, so it is a non-starter for anyone who prints large. (Most of the prints I sell run between 24x30 and 30x40.) I also find that the Epson and Innova papers have more of a lustre like surface than I prefer. The Harman version is smoother and, IMO, gets in the way less of looking into the image.
I do agree, BTW, with another poster about Epson's quality control. It is excellent. I have used Epson Premium Semi-Matte in rolls for years and it has been flawless. Not ideal because that paper is somewhat "flimsy", but I have been unwilling to accept the trade-off that we had to make until recently of deep blacks and a broad color gamut for a paper that feels better in the hand.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151291\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Jesus tap dancing christ. I'd have to call my banker.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151238\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I checked the price at itsupplies. Lists the same as the source referred to in this thread but once you add it to your cart it gets discounted - the 379 price changes to 294.00 - but that is still about 12 bucks a sheet for a 24x30! OOUUCHHHH.
I saw the paper at Expo (along with many others from other makers) and though it is nice I personally was not totally "wowed" by it. I sort of see all of this hype like we have found the holy grail yet I can see in a year or two we will all be crowding around something else.
Yes, Epson has great QC on the media.
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Anybody use this paper? Could well be the Epson Exhibition under a different name? Less expensive. $9 for a 24x30 as opposed to $12. Come in rolls also.
http://premierimagingproducts.com/pm_platinumrag.php (http://premierimagingproducts.com/pm_platinumrag.php)
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IF this is the "original" stuff that inkjetart carried about a couple of years ago it is the absolute worst paper I've ever tried. The paper I'm thinking of was, I think, the first "attempt" to bridge the gulf between plastic "luster" papers and rag fiber luster papers. eleanor
Anybody use this paper? Could well be the Epson Exhibition under a different name? Less expensive. $9 for a 24x30 as opposed to $12. Come in rolls also.
http://premierimagingproducts.com/pm_platinumrag.php (http://premierimagingproducts.com/pm_platinumrag.php)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151528\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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There is no way that Platinum Rag is the same paper as EEF (exhibition fibre). The platinum rag does indeed print with the MK ink while I'm pretty sure that EEF is PK.
Not to mention that the Platinum Rag is a pretty bad paper IMHO. There is some sort of low resolution/grainy quality to it that is simply unattractive.
Anybody use this paper? Could well be the Epson Exhibition under a different name? Less expensive. $9 for a 24x30 as opposed to $12. Come in rolls also.
http://premierimagingproducts.com/pm_platinumrag.php (http://premierimagingproducts.com/pm_platinumrag.php)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151528\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Wow! what can I say---this new epson paper wins the prize in my book. Just got my hands on a few samples printing both black and white and color on my epson 7800 with K3 ink set. I have nothing bad to say about this paper except that I don't think it comes in rolls. This is a beautiful heavy weight bright white paper with a soft gloss (not as glossy as the Harman and Hahnemuhle latest offerings) and a texture to die for! Epson has a winner with this texture...subtle and smooth, yet more pronounced than the harman or hahnumuhle texture. I'm a super compulsively particular former silver printer that's always looking for something in digital media to match or exceed the best qualities of my silver papers. Of the latest three offerings (Harman, Hahnemuhle, and now, Epson) this paper "feels" the most substantial---meaning it will "corner" mount the best without buckling. It is also brighter white than the harman (can't remember about the Hahnemuhle). The epson has no gloss differential (or none of any consequence) and no bronzing (again, using my K3 inks and Imageprint). Eleanor
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150976\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks Eleanor for starting this thread and for your and others' comments on this paper. By chance I managed to get a box yesterday(for some reason it is called Tradition Photo Paper in continental Europe). So far it does meet the expectations that were raised by the postings above, and then some. And also many thanks to the PixelGenius mafia for their profiles -almost as good as their software!.
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I too got samples of this paper at PhotoExpo in NY. Haven't opened it or tried it yet. I have an Epson 3800. Has Epson posted a good profile for it that I can use to do some testing? Thanks.
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I too got samples of this paper at PhotoExpo in NY. Haven't opened it or tried it yet. I have an Epson 3800. Has Epson posted a good profile for it that I can use to do some testing? Thanks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151728\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
They can be downloaded at the PixelGenius website - as recommended by Epson on their Professional Imaging website.
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For those of you who print on the 3800 via the ABW driver, I've posted an ICC profile for EEF here:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Ep...bwprofiles.html (http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/abwprofiles.html)
I also feel that EEF is very similar to Innova FibaPrint USG, except the weight. Paper white and surface texture are nearly identical. But I do prefer the thicker base of EEF. EEF is a bit whiter and brighter than Harman Gloss (HG), not quite as smooth. Of these three papers HG is the sharpest, with the tightest dot pattern; the tradeoff is that the dot pattern is more visible to the naked eye with HG. For B&W images I do not find this objectionable, but EEF is definitely smoother than HG in this regard, esp. with flat areas of subtle tonal transition. I do think the EEF coating is probably different than USG, because (1) I see less gloss differential with EEF and (2) fewer pizza wheel marks with EEF; i.e., the pizza wheel ejection mechanism on my 3800 doesn't "dig into" the EEF surface as much as with the Innova USG paper. (All of the Innova FibaPrint papers I've tried -- i.e., all of them -- show significant pizza wheel marks ...)
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For those of you who print on the 3800 via the ABW driver, I've posted an ICC profile for EEF here:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Ep...bwprofiles.html (http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/abwprofiles.html)
I also feel that EEF is very similar to Innova FibaPrint USG, except the weight. Paper white and surface texture are nearly identical. But I do prefer the thicker base of EEF. EEF is a bit whiter and brighter than Harman Gloss (HG), not quite as smooth. Of these three papers HG is the sharpest, with the tightest dot pattern; the tradeoff is that the dot pattern is more visible to the naked eye with HG. For B&W images I do not find this objectionable, but EEF is definitely smoother than HG in this regard, esp. with flat areas of subtle tonal transition. I do think the EEF coating is probably different than USG, because (1) I see less gloss differential with EEF and (2) fewer pizza wheel marks with EEF; i.e., the pizza wheel ejection mechanism on my 3800 doesn't "dig into" the EEF surface as much as with the Innova USG paper. (All of the Innova FibaPrint papers I've tried -- i.e., all of them -- show significant pizza wheel marks ...)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151739\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'll have to bookmark that page (your site for the 3800 is already). It looks like you've covered all the bases from all the angles. Good to have your viewpoint on these papers. I'm liking the EEF more and more as I begin to learn to print to it. Beautiful detail, luscious colors, sumptuous feel to it. Impoverishing cost, but exhilarating.
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Re: EEF in rolls---apparently the folks at Epson are not making this available in rolls because they are afraid it will not stay flat after printing because of the composition of the base. Personally I would still like it in rolls---I can always cold mount the larger prints on foam core or whatever. As someone mentioned earlier however, Epson is very particular about quality control. eleanor
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If you're ok with cold mounting, you could instead get the Innova FibaPrint Ultra Smooth Gloss, which is available in rolls. Once cold-mounted the differences in paper thickness & weight between USG and EEF become immaterial.
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For those who have already tested samples of the EEF, I am wondering how susceptible it is to surface damage (dings and scratches) in the course of normal handling.
I have been testing the Harman Gloss fiber paper. While I like the paper quite a bit, I am definitely put off by how easily the paper accumulates scratches.
Thanks for any insight.
Paul
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For those who have already tested samples of the EEF, I am wondering how susceptible it is to surface damage (dings and scratches) in the course of normal handling.
I have been testing the Harman Gloss fiber paper. While I like the paper quite a bit, I am definitely put off by how easily the paper accumulates scratches.
Thanks for any insight.
Paul
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You might wish to refer to the link above to Eric Chan's site, where he briefly discusses how these papers hold up to surface damage. My initial impression is that the surface of the Epson paper is really very good in this respect, although it is still early days.
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EEF is also susceptible to scratches, scuffs, and dings. But the surface is inherently less smooth than HG so the artifacts on EEF will generally be less noticeable.
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Ralph, Eric,
Thank you both for your replies.
Regards,
Paul