Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Frank Doorhof on August 21, 2007, 11:41:09 am
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After a good talk with Mamiya I think the best way for me is to upgrade to a leaf or phase one.
However my budget is slightly blown by the whole shift to MF so I have to look at some options.
At the moment I'm seriously considering the Leaf 22 Aptus or a refurbished unit.
However in the Netherlands we don't have a good dealer network like in the states so I'm thinking about buying in the states or england or which ever country
Has anyone some good adresses for this ?
And any other insight is welcome.
The reason I switch from the Mamiya is that the bug has got me, I love the MF system and I want to upgrade to 16 bits.
The ZD back is very good for it's pricerange but I'm experiencing some problems with firewire tethered shooting and looking forward upgrading now is the wisest decision.
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Why not Sinar? Just curious.
You will normally find a list of distributors with contact details on the manufacturer's home page.
You should also consider the leasing option.
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...or Hasselblad!
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The emotion looks nice but only goes to ISO100 which is a shame because sometimes I need ISO200 or ISO400.
Also I can't find any pricing (did a quick search)
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Why not Sinar? Just curious.
You will normally find a list of distributors with contact details on the manufacturer's home page.
You should also consider the leasing option.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134532\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I thought about the Sinar option myself but in the US the price tag is alot more for the 22 megapixels than other brand with equivalent pixels. Perhaps this is different in Europe.
The next option to think about is the Phase One P+ series backs or the Hasselblad CF backs. Both of these backs will take your current invested medium format system, Mamiya AFD II. Capture Integration is offering a discount on all of the Mamiya mount backs the last time I checked and they are great folks to deal with. If you want to go with the Hasselblad back or Sinar speak with Steve Hendrix from Professional Photo Resources (PPR).
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I have one appointment tomorrow with the Dutch Leaf importer if that works out we will go with leaf, if not I will give Steve a mail, saw his name come up alot indeed.
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Frank,
you can buy a refurbished Aptus 22 for EUR 11.900,- at Calumet Germany. That´s 10.000,- without tax, if you have a VAT-number.
http://www.calumetphoto.de/ctl?ac.ui.pn=se...uery=aptus%2022 (http://www.calumetphoto.de/ctl?ac.ui.pn=search.Search&query=aptus%2022)
Why do you get away so quickly from the ZD back? Don´t you think Mamiya could fix the initial problems?
Bernd
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Thanks I will call them tomorrow that sounds like a great deal.
The reason I'm upgrading is complicated but simple
Let's make first clear that I ABSOLUTLY love the ZD back for it's price point.
However there are a few things that strike me as annoyances.
1. The small display which is totally useless.
2. The green discollarisation on one side of the back.
3. The purple worms.
4. The firewire issues I'm experiencing.
Number 2 and 3 will be solved 100% sure, Mamiya already knows about it and also what the problem is.
4 is still out, they claim some photographers don't have issues or solved their issues, when I see the solutions they give me not very high hopes for a solid connection for the time being, also the small firewire port is a disaster waiting to happen with my workshops.
Now let's be real about this, for the pricepoint it's a bargain and it can't be beat.
For me however it was a cheap way to get into the MF system, I was thinking about a Hasselblad or a Leaf or Phase on but could not justify the costs without working with it for a longer time.
With the ZD combi I got a sweet deal as a tester and it was ok let's do it NOW.
Now for me it's an extra investment of app 5000,00 euros to upgrade to the leaf.
The advantages for me is:
1. Tried and tested firewire connection
2. ISO25 (love it to get super DOF with my ringflash during daytime)
3. LARGE preview, a steep price if that was the only reason but you have to love the 6x7cm preview screen.
4. cheaper accus, I shoot alot of sessions during the week and also location work, the Mamiya accus are killing my budget, well that's a big word but they are expensive.
5. Although I don't find the 11 frames buffer a problem for 95% of my work the 1000 frames continues shooting is of course something that's nice to have.
6. Real 16 bit capture (the biggy for me)
Numbers 1,2,3 make the upgrade solid for me, and 6 is the biggest reason.
However if you have budgetwise the price for the ZD + camera I still stand behind my review, it's the best bang for the buck.
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Frank, you could have a look on Ebay as well. I did quite a good deal in the US on an Aptus 75.
No import taxes because it's a digital camera, only BTW. And the dollar is verry cheap for us europeans. If you need more info just let me know...
Cheers, G.
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Hi Frank
Reading your original post I notice you asked for dealer recommendations in the UK or the US? If you are interested in the Phase One and in coming to London I can highly recommend Teamwork. I dealt with Steve Martin and they kept on lending me different backs and Mamiya lenses for testing until I was satisfied. I bought the 645 AFD 2 and a P30+. You can find them here: http://www.teamworkphoto.com/ (http://www.teamworkphoto.com/)
I have no financial link with them other than paying them large sums of money for my kit! Good luck with your choice.
Olaf
Frank, you could have a look on Ebay as well. I did quite a good deal in the US on an Aptus 75.
No import taxes because it's a digital camera, only BTW. And the dollar is verry cheap for us europeans. If you need more info just let me know...
Cheers, G.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134576\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I have checked ebay but found nothing that looked trustworthy
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Frank
If Leaf is your first (next) choice the you should communicate with Yair Shahar (who posts
here regularly as Yaya). He is the regional UK person for Leaf
yair.shahar at kodak.com
I'm in Canada and have not purchased a Leaf product but he has been very generous with
his time/information at the same time knowing full well that I won't be purchasing
a product in his jurisdiction. A stand up guy.
Mark
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I have checked ebay but found nothing that looked trustworthy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134588\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Someone has a P25 for sale in Denmark for 10K USD. It is on the for sale section in this forum. It says it is still under guarantuee so it might also be in the period of the 1 year free swap of interface (if you need it in Mamiya mount).
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Frank, you could have a look on Ebay as well. I did quite a good deal in the US on an Aptus 75.
No import taxes because it's a digital camera, only BTW. And the dollar is verry cheap for us europeans. If you need more info just let me know...
Cheers, G.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134576\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No duty, but VAT will still be applicable (if you aren't VAT registered)
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Thanks I have mailed both
One small question (*Dustbak allready answered some).
This is about shooting to the PC.
I know by now there is a beta version of the software but....
When I only need to transfer the files is it not possible to use the PC like an external firewire HDD, in other words the back will just transfer the files to a folder on the PC and from there ofcourse lightroom can take over the rest.
I have seen some files from both and am leaning slightly towards the leaf now because the shadows and skintones are slightly better, the colors of the Phase are a bit more natural but that's very close.
I do 99% people so the shadow and skintones are vital for me.
Thanks in advance for all the help.
The problem is I have to move much faster than I normally do because I want to return the ZD back asap so they don't have to wait long for me.
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Frank
If Leaf is your first (next) choice the you should communicate with Yair Shahar (who posts
here regularly as Yaya). He is the regional UK person for Leaf
yair.shahar at kodak.com
I'm in Canada and have not purchased a Leaf product but he has been very generous with
his time/information at the same time knowing full well that I won't be purchasing
a product in his jurisdiction. A stand up guy.
Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134590\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Agree, absolutely, Yair is a real nice guy.
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Frank,
We were named Phase One's dealer of the year in 2006. We are a Phase One exclusive dealer located in Atlanta, Georgia. Please give me a call.
Chris Lawery
Capture Integration
www.captureintegration.com
(404)234-5195 cell
(404)522-7662 office
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Dear Frank,
compare ISO 100 with the eMotion with ISO 200 on other backs: just an advice.
Best regards,
Thierry
The emotion looks nice but only goes to ISO100 which is a shame because sometimes I need ISO200 or ISO400.
Also I can't find any pricing (did a quick search)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134542\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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here the Sinar distributor's contacts for the Netherlands:
Photal fototechnische
Handelsonderneming
Edisonstraat 31
Postbus 61
6600 AB Wijchen
Phone: (+31) 24 642 03 34
Fax: (+31) 24 642 14 53
E-mail: [email protected]
Website: www.photal.nl
He will be able to give you all prices requested.
Best regards,
Thierry
Also I can't find any pricing (did a quick search)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134542\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thanks I have mailed both
One small question (*Dustbak allready answered some).
This is about shooting to the PC.
I know by now there is a beta version of the software but....
When I only need to transfer the files is it not possible to use the PC like an external firewire HDD, in other words the back will just transfer the files to a folder on the PC and from there ofcourse lightroom can take over the rest.
I have seen some files from both and am leaning slightly towards the leaf now because the shadows and skintones are slightly better, the colors of the Phase are a bit more natural but that's very close.
I do 99% people so the shadow and skintones are vital for me.
Thanks in advance for all the help.
The problem is I have to move much faster than I normally do because I want to return the ZD back asap so they don't have to wait long for me.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134596\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is possible. I used my Aptus like that (though on MacOS). Tether with LC, have your files dropped in a folder of your choice and let Lightroom do its work.
I did this with Adobe Bridge, there should not be a lot of differences here.
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@Dustbak, in other words you would not need the software than.
I must say I'm overwhelmed with responses with compliments to Leaf who are really answering my questions faster than I can ask them
Sinar looks great but I also shoot alot of stuff on location and I need preview window and those backs are at the moment out of my budget. I would opt for the Emotion 75LV and that one is app 10.000 euros more expensive than the Aptus deal I have on the table now.
I first have to make the start within my budget and after a year or so I will maybe upgrade when the dust has settled.
The fight for me is between the P25 and the Aptus 22.
I have now read some reviews and those two are almost identical, I THINK the ISO25 of the Aptus will give me the greenlight for that back, I would love to use that on my daytime ringflash work, a gorgeous DOF should be possible with that.
I must say I'm surprised at the help I get from all of you and the manufactorers, it really strengthens my faith. Thank you.
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@Dustbak, in other words you would not need the software than.
I must say I'm overwhelmed with responses with compliments to Leaf who are really answering my questions faster than I can ask them
Sinar looks great but I also shoot alot of stuff on location and I need preview window and those backs are at the moment out of my budget. I would opt for the Emotion 75LV and that one is app 10.000 euros more expensive than the Aptus deal I have on the table now.
I first have to make the start within my budget and after a year or so I will maybe upgrade when the dust has settled.
The fight for me is between the P25 and the Aptus 22.
I have now read some reviews and those two are almost identical, I THINK the ISO25 of the Aptus will give me the greenlight for that back, I would love to use that on my daytime ringflash work, a gorgeous DOF should be possible with that.
I must say I'm surprised at the help I get from all of you and the manufactorers, it really strengthens my faith. Thank you.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134635\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Did you happen to see any deals on a P21+ or refurb back while you have been searching? I think the sensor is better than on the 'old' p25 technology. I am looking for a P21 new or old but have yet to find a good deal, any help appreciated. I keep hearing about refurbs going for 8-9 grand (US) but have yet to actually find any.
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Just google on P21+ + phase and some will show up.
It's how I did it
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Hey Frank, I'm sure you're already aware but LC-11 will only run on a Mac. Let's face it, we both should have converted to a Mac years ago. David
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@Dustbak, in other words you would not need the software than.
I must say I'm overwhelmed with responses with compliments to Leaf who are really answering my questions faster than I can ask them
Sinar looks great but I also shoot alot of stuff on location and I need preview window and those backs are at the moment out of my budget. I would opt for the Emotion 75LV and that one is app 10.000 euros more expensive than the Aptus deal I have on the table now.
I first have to make the start within my budget and after a year or so I will maybe upgrade when the dust has settled.
The fight for me is between the P25 and the Aptus 22.
I have now read some reviews and those two are almost identical, I THINK the ISO25 of the Aptus will give me the greenlight for that back, I would love to use that on my daytime ringflash work, a gorgeous DOF should be possible with that.
I must say I'm surprised at the help I get from all of you and the manufactorers, it really strengthens my faith. Thank you.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134635\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Frank, you do need the software to get the back tethered and shoot to your laptop. You can open the application, connect the back and start shooting. From that moment on you do not have to work from Leaf Capture but can work on the files from other applications.
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Ok thanks, that's clear I hoped I could let the back see the harddrive of the PC as a storage device.
But I already have confirmation there is PC software so that's out of the way.
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Why don't you take a look at the Hasselblad back's. A lot of quality for your money and very good dealer in Belgium and Holland. Both Ray and myself are using Hasselblad and we are both the most happy people on earth.
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I could not find a Hasselblad back with Mamiya connection for under 20.000 euros.
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I could not find a Hasselblad back with Mamiya connection for under 20.000 euros.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134729\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The CF22 should be available for under that. Not sure how much but I know Hasselblad also has trade in deals.
I guess someone in this thread might have one for sale even.
The CF uses adapter plates to mount it on a specific camera. For Mamiya you get the Ixpress Adapter plate that goes with it and you can use it on your AFDII.
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Just put down the phone and ordered the Aptus 22.
Got a deal that was nice and I think for what I do the Aptus is the good choice.
Especially on location the big screen is something that will be of good use, now I drag a imagetank with me but that's a bad solution for MF raws
With the ZD I could shoot RAW+JPEG to see the JPEGs but with the Aptus the screen is large enough to judge my shot, focus will be only checked on the laptop or at the studio so that's a non issue.
I hope to receive the back tomorrow so I'm very anxious to try it out in the studio.
The only weird thing is (maybe someone can answer that) does it go from 25-400 or from 25-200.
According to the leaf site it's 25-200 according to all sales sites including my dealer it's 25-400.
I never go higher than 200 by the way for normal shooting and I can always underexpose and get up 1 or 2 stops in the developer but I was just interested to know.
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Just put down the phone and ordered the Aptus 22.
Got a deal that was nice and I think for what I do the Aptus is the good choice.
Especially on location the big screen is something that will be of good use, now I drag a imagetank with me but that's a bad solution for MF raws
With the ZD I could shoot RAW+JPEG to see the JPEGs but with the Aptus the screen is large enough to judge my shot, focus will be only checked on the laptop or at the studio so that's a non issue.
I hope to receive the back tomorrow so I'm very anxious to try it out in the studio.
The only weird thing is (maybe someone can answer that) does it go from 25-400 or from 25-200.
According to the leaf site it's 25-200 according to all sales sites including my dealer it's 25-400.
I never go higher than 200 by the way for normal shooting and I can always underexpose and get up 1 or 2 stops in the developer but I was just interested to know.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134738\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Frank,
Really sorry to hear about the problems you have had with the Mamiya. I was watching your samples and reading your evaluation with keen interest to consider the Mamiya. Now that you have switched to Leaf, I hope you will post your real life experiences with this new rig once you have the chance to use it. I think yours is one valuable source to others wanting to move to MFDBs. Thanks for all your hard work.
Henry
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Just put down the phone and ordered the Aptus 22.
Got a deal that was nice and I think for what I do the Aptus is the good choice.
Especially on location the big screen is something that will be of good use, now I drag a imagetank with me but that's a bad solution for MF raws
With the ZD I could shoot RAW+JPEG to see the JPEGs but with the Aptus the screen is large enough to judge my shot, focus will be only checked on the laptop or at the studio so that's a non issue.
I hope to receive the back tomorrow so I'm very anxious to try it out in the studio.
The only weird thing is (maybe someone can answer that) does it go from 25-400 or from 25-200.
According to the leaf site it's 25-200 according to all sales sites including my dealer it's 25-400.
I never go higher than 200 by the way for normal shooting and I can always underexpose and get up 1 or 2 stops in the developer but I was just interested to know.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134738\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I always thought it went from 25 to 400. I know my A17 goes from 25 to 400 maybe the A22 is different in that respect.
Congratulations! The Aptus will not disappoint you I am sure about that.
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I always thought it went from 25 to 400. I know my A17 goes from 25 to 400 maybe the A22 is different in that respect.
Congratulations! The Aptus will not disappoint you I am sure about that.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134741\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
There is conflicting info on the Leaf site: The Aptus 22 goes from iso 25 to 400. I believe when it was originally introduced the upper iso limit was 200. A firmware upgrade resulted in the expansion to 400. I think this is the source of the conflicting info on the site. I bought an Aptus 22 about 6 weeks ago and use it with the 645afdII. It does not disappoint! Congratulations Frank, happy shooting!
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Great although I hardly use anything higher than ISO200 it's fun to have for those casual shots from friends and family.
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Ok, got the back and the beta software.
Have tried a burst of 50 frames and got ZERO problems.
Tomorrow I will do a complete session if that goes without problems I'm sure.
I have posted a handsdown review (first impressions) on my blog it will be longer when I work more with the back.